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View Full Version : Brutallus, i feel helpless



Armageddn
08-13-2008, 03:03 AM
Seriously Brutallus has been kicking my ass over and over for the past 2 weeks and i can't do anything about it.
Could anyone help me please any advice is appritiated

here is WWS from the last two raids:

11% at best HERE (http://wowwebstats.com/vneyzyin6unh3?a=xd4073e)

14% at best HERE (http://wowwebstats.com/vrje4l2fx656s?a=xd4073e)

The problem is that when the dps is going well and we are ahead of timer I die, But when the healing is good and we got lucky with stomps and avoidance and all the dps is not enough :confused:

This guy is a real pain

Kree
08-13-2008, 03:54 AM
Well, i gear there for armor. With paly aura im @ about 21,5k, use scrolls, badges ring and cloak.

My gear looks like that(actually upgraded by sunwell loot ill post gear without) :
Faceplate of the Impenetrable - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=32521)
Pendant of Titans - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=32362)
Onslaught Shoulderguards - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=30980)
Slikk's Cloak of Placation - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=33593) + 120 armor enchant
Onslaught Chestguard - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=30976)
Onslaught Wristguards - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=34442)
Onslaught Handguards - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=30970) + 240 armor on it
Girdle of the Fearless - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=34941)
Onslaught Legguards - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=30978)
Myrmidon's Treads - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=32268)
Ring 1 : Band of the Eternal Defender - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29297)
Ring 2 : Ring of the Stalwart Protector - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=34888)
Trinket 1 : Shadowmoon Insignia - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=32501) or Moroes' Lucky Pocket Watch - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=28528)
Trinket 2 : Ancient Aqir Artifact - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=33830)
The Brutalizer - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=32254) with mongoose + Bulwark of Azzinoth - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=32375)
Gems : fully stamina
Enchants : standart tank.

Buffs : all standarts + Scroll of Protection V - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=27500)
Make shure u get a shaman with agi totem, for every stomp have Ironshield Potion - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=22849) in + trinket, if you taunt and stomp comes few secounds after use last stand or even sw.
Rest of the job are debuffs and nice heal ^^


PS. If ull have some aggro probs just taunt on cd while tanking.

Nicki
08-13-2008, 04:08 AM
#1 some undergeared it would seem lowest allowed dps should be 1200-1300 (x2) next lowest would be 2x1450 with the rest at 1800-2100.
#2 debuff slots are probably gimping your dps ONLY use judgements of wisdom and crusader also have: Shammys drop flame shock and all use earthshock, The paladin should not use hammer of wrath (it sucks BIG time), your slam warrior is hurting his dps by using DST, also haste potions/drums are important I see some used only 3 pots. You only get 40 debuffslots if you pass them important buffs like thunderclap fall off!!!

My advise:

Drop 1 elemental shammy their dps is poor, gain 1 shadow priest. Im not sure if you do but the feral druid should be in group with a resto shammy dropping agi and hunters (your hunter dps is a bit sluggish) 1 of them should be survival though and drop 1 holy paladin.

No offence though some great attempts there but your just off the timer, I think your raid needs more gear and or pot useage (haste pots and destro go along way!)

Get the right setup, get lucky, watch debuffslots (drop JoL +flameshocks etc they are a waste and actually more likely to hurt raid dps) and profit...

Not much more to say brutallus even without low dps is luck most of the time..

/just trying to help :\

Gworn
08-13-2008, 05:04 AM
Buffs : all standarts + Scroll of Protection V - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=27500)

As far as I know the proc of your ring overwrite the scroll you use.

Armageddn
08-13-2008, 05:14 AM
I'm sorry guys i'm not logged off in my usual tanking gear on Brutallus and I'm at work atm
I'll be sure to uppdate when i get home

These are our best tries HERE (http://wowwebstats.com/vrje4l2fx656s?m&s=83129-109299) and HERE (http://wowwebstats.com/vneyzyin6unh3?s=184648-213784&m)

Check them out and thanks a lot for all the advice

Kree
08-13-2008, 05:27 AM
As far as I know the proc of your ring overwrite the scroll you use.

With luck will it proc after about ..4 mins?

Worldie
08-13-2008, 05:35 AM
The procrate on that ring is fairly high, our prot warrior uses it and it procs in the first 30 seconds. You're forgetting the amount of hits you get, and that ring is "when struck in combat" :P

Kree
08-13-2008, 06:30 AM
last kill - 2 procs not really high proc rate and even if, scroll is nice to have untill it procs so..

bludwork
08-13-2008, 07:08 AM
your avoidance is really low in wws, ~7% dodge? damn. Might want to use scorpid sting if the main cause of wipes is tank death.

Armageddn
08-13-2008, 07:38 AM
sunwell radiance is a bitch :(

Kavtor
08-13-2008, 08:29 AM
Your gear level fine, although I'd try to squeeze out a bunch more avoidance with enchants and gems. I'd go with Moroes and Commendation though, rather than SMI, but my other tank uses SMI just fine.
Make sure you've got a trick to pull on each stomp, and your healers have a plan for handling stomps.
After that, it's telling your DPS to pick up their game. By the looks of things, they aren't on pace for a kill. You can fix some of that with group make up and debuff management.

Bishoptwo
08-13-2008, 08:48 AM
Communication with healers on vent is key:

When 2nd meteor slash hits other tank i say "taunting in about 10 seconds", when there's five seconds until a stomp we call that out, when i see about 3 seconds left until the 3rd meteor slash i go ahead and queue up on vent and say "here comes the taunt..." then when the last meter slash is casting, "taunting now" and i always try to announce this 2 seconds or so before i actually intend on taunting b/c of normal vent lag.

I use pocket watch on first stomp, Last Stand on 2nd stomp, pocket watch on 3rd stomp, then if needed shield wall or nightmare seed + stoneform (yeah i know im a dwarf, GG, i fail, etc etc).

If a stomp is going to happen within a couple of seconds after a taunt transition, I will usually wait after the stomp hits the tank with the 3 slashes and taunt immediately, or go ahead and taunt and blow shield wall since stomp is so close in the transition. Again talking in vent and announcing what we are doing is crucial..."I am letting her eat the stomp, my taunt will be after that, be ready for it....ok taunting now".

Thorik
08-13-2008, 08:51 AM
Any chance you're not swapping trinkets for the fight? I've found in my own experience that putting on cooldown trinkets (pocket watch in particular) can really help with the stomps. Hit the watch for the first stomp, last stand on the second, trinket again for the third, etc.

Xav
08-13-2008, 09:22 AM
It's so easy to reply when 80% of the threads on tankspot are reposts/slightly reworded!

Search before posting?!?! Never!

Anyway, here's some stuff that will probably help you.


Gearing "properly" for Brutallus varies based on opinion. As a rough baseline, mostly best-in-slot stuff from Hyjal and BT will be enough. Numbers to shoot for completely unbuffed if you want to kill him for your first time should be at least 15.5k HP, 20k armor, and 60% total avoidance (not counting Sunwell Radiance). This isn't really asking a lot, and is very easily obtainable.

For reference, I geared heavily for avoidance and was at only a little over 20k HP for our first kill, but I did have an Aff. lock in my group, providing Blood Pact, as well as Shadow Embrace. Here's a screenshot of my stats at the time; note that's my avoidance with a mongoose proc and GoA totem (we ran 2 enhance, and so tanks had twisted GoA/WF as well). That's my armor without an Ironshield (I think it had just faded from me and the other tank taunted, not sure why it wasn't up). And yes, remember, there's still Sunwell Radiance, so that 48% dodge was 23% .
Although it is worth noting that I did not have the commendation yet, as it did not drop (was the first day of Sunwell patch), so with it I'd have been down a bit of avoidance, and at 21k HP.

http://img441.imageshack.us/my.php?image=avoidanceby6.jpg

The biggest things that will allow you to live through the encounter is properly using your timers and consumables.

First off, you should always be chain ironshielding through the encounter, even during progress. The damage is just extreme.

Secondly, you and your offtank need to have a thorough understanding of Stomp mechanics and the openings you have to taunt to nullify/reduce the impact of stomps.

A good example is the first stomp, which always comes shortly after the 2nd Meteor Slash. While you normally taunt after the 3rd slash has hit a tank, there's no reason to wait the first time, since noone has any slashes yet. So, Meteor Slash 2 hits the first tank, and then Stomp is about to be cast. Here's how it should play out:

Meteor Slash 2 hits
Tank 2 announces: "I'm taunting as soon as this Stomp hits [tank1]"
Stomp hits (the ground shakes before you can see the debuff - use this as your flinch reaction)
Taunt off the tank that just got the stomp.

That allowed the first tank to not need to use any timers to live through a stomp, as ideally they only took one volley of attacks while stomp was up, for a maximum of 19-20k or so damage (yes, it's a lot, but wont kill the tank, and that's only if they don't avoid either of the attacks). And now you've transitioned without having to taunt into a stomp.

This type of situation can and will occur throughout the fight. Sometimes the timing of the stomps/slashes are such that you have no choice but to tank through entire stomps. This is inevitable. When it happens, warn the healers.

"I have to tank through this whole stomp"
"I will be taunting and immediately be getting stomped"

Always use your timers for these. Moroes' Pocket Watch is the perfect trinket to activate right before Stomp hits you. Nightmare Seeds are good as well, and then there's Last Stand and Shield Wall.

I will generally use two cooldowns combined if my Moroes' Pocket Watch isn't up and if I'm taunting into a fresh stomp, which is the WORST kind of transition, but you wont always have a way to avoid it. The healers have to be on the previous tank all the way up until it switches, with maybe 1 person precasting on you early, otherwise they risk letting that tank die, but then you will immediately be taking massive potential damage without having all the healers/procced armor buffs on you yet, so it can be a recipe for death. Using say Last Stand + Seed in conjunction when you know that's about to happen will give you a bit more health to hopefully keep you alive.

Commendation of Kael'thas is great for Brutallus due to the short CD, it lines up perfectly with the tank periods. It is almost guaranteed to proc each time you're tanking, and that 8% avoidance will proc when it matters most. A single MH+OH hit during Stomp will cause the trinket to proc, so it's giving you a reliable, large boost in avoidance each time.

Don't be hesitant to shield wall if all other CD's are down, although when pushing for first kills, your DPS may be low so you may have to push it past the enrage timer. Our first kill was somewhat low DPS-wise and we tanked it a good 10 seconds into enrage by combining both Shield Wall and Last Stand + Seed (yeah, we had a lucky timing of Stomp/Slash interactions so we never had to spam CD's mid fight), which is the only way you'll live through Enrage for any decent time as the tank.

Also just adding this in as a clarification: At first glance, you may think the timing of Slash/Stomp is always going to be the same every pull. This is not the case. They will vary, and it is because Brutallus has a small window of opportunity that he can choose to use Stomp in, over the course of a fight these few seconds +/- can cause the interactions to be more difficult in conjunction with tank swaps, or easier. This is contrary to my original belief which was that it was always going to be the same, and thus, can be planned around in advance. You are unable to plan much past just the next stomp timer you can see. I have in some cases waited till the absolute last second to taunt; I don't recommend this. The situation was my offtank had 3 slashes and Stomp was due any second, at the same time as the next Slash. I was waiting to see if he would possibly use the Stomp before the Slash, which would have let me taunt right before the 4th slash hit my offtank, but right after he took the Stomp, which would trivialize the tank transition. Unfortunately Brutallus used the Slash first, so I had to taunt mid-slash cast and cause it to hit my side, and then he Stomped immediately after. This is what I mean by something that can occur throughout the fight. As you and your offtanks get more comfortable with the fight you can take the risks since you know what you're getting yourselves into.

Armageddn
08-13-2008, 01:33 PM
I've actually already read that post Xav I was asking for advice for the raid in general not only the tanking bit.

Plus i needed advice about those specific WWS :)

Xav
08-13-2008, 03:03 PM
I've actually already read that post Xav I was asking for advice for the raid in general not only the tanking bit.

Plus i needed advice about those specific WWS :)

Oh, well, your question was extremely vague and open-ended, so I assumed my post wouldn't hurt. Here's how you could have reworded your topic:

Title: Help!!!!
Contents: Help me please, here are two links:







see? we'd be just as lost as you :(

Faction
08-28-2008, 03:54 PM
One thing to note about tanking Brutallus for a first kill as a warrior is choosing the right healers to heal you. I play a Holy priest for Sunwell (Have not had a chance to get my Alt warrior in yet, only experienced till illidan on him), and the tanks in my guild did not have the slightest clue about the Stomp/Slash/Taunt mechanic; which Xav pointed out. Even now we keep swapping tanks to give the bench some practice, so healing deals with aforementioned mechanic.

For the first kill I made sure I was running close to 23% holy crit on my priest, along with another priest close to 20% and 2 resto shamans for CH spam ~15-17%. We put the JC neck to good use. A holy pally rounded up the MT healing core (Druid/holy pally on burn). We made sure that both priests had similar haste and chain casted GH Rank 7 (No downranking even without stomp, use 2 pc T5 if needed) which landed 1 second apart. I swapped first after a taunt and the second priest followed 1 second later. To deal with a swap coming with less than 5 seconds to a stomp, we had one of our shamans switch from the current tank and try to proc AF on the other tank.

Ohh yeah, I used pdebufflist to track debuffs and yell on vent if demo/TC ever falls off. Its harder for a tank to see what is up, so it might help for one of the MT healers to call out last stand/SW if they know they can't heal properly due to movement with an inc stomp.

Edit: Using a pally with Imp Devo aura in the Warrior tank group and an Affliction lock with SE is good too.

Sanelora
08-29-2008, 03:51 AM
one bit of crucial information that noone has said: DON'T FEEL HELPLESS

feel confident in yourself, your gear and your ability even if you gear isnt up to it. Bosses hardly go down because of all of the sunshine and flowers crap but it is very important to retain perspective over the situation.

Tanking is fun! Sure, tanking is stressful but whatever, take it in your stride. be confident regardless even if it is undue confidence. Don't feel disheartened if you dont get it but it helps lift the attitude of the raid and makes people want to do the same.

My advice is: keep perspective on what you are doing. make sure everyone is performing like you, popping consumables like you and controlling the fight like you do (they do it with burn; you do it with slash, stomp and tanking in general)

to put it in the words of vene: "Tank strong, and prosper"