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Doomrokk
08-08-2008, 10:39 AM
I am a well geared Prot Warrior, did ZA a TON of times, but yesterday a new guild I transferred to wanted to try ZA with two Warrior tanks, and no Paladins, not even a healer...for salv. We wiped on the Gauntlet...twice...I am noticing I had an awful time keeping aggro on two mobs/birds, I was the front tank. I SB-DEV'd the Skull, then Taunted, Rev, Dev, Dev on the X...I would then do the 4 rotation on skull, then the X. Thunderclapping when I can, and also Demo Shout. Is there some sort of macro I should have for switching targets...

kawika
08-08-2008, 01:34 PM
no macro that i'm aware of. some tanks use a mouse over macro on theirspecials to make attacking different mobs on the fly easier. i usually just tab or click on healthbars.

Was it the dps ripping agro or the healers?

If you got a rogue/war/enh sham dpsing....they can survive well enough for you to not be that worried about picking it up again immediately. You're main focus in this environment is if you dont have a paladin...you tank as many mobs as you can and keep them off the healers.

There's been discussions about a specialized "AOE" tanking setup, which largely depends on your raid structure/balance.

AoE tanking:
stormchops
druid thorns or crystal charge thingy from ungoro
ezthro dynamite II or oil of immolation
sporegarr shield w/ shield spike
darkmoon card: vengeance

i found the darkmoon card can be optional if you got a set that's high in sheild block rating, something akin to a passive uncrushable set (check out tankingtips.com).

i experiemented with such a set last week and it worked very well. was something like 9% miss (from defense) 18% dodge parry (each) and 45 block with something around 500ish block value (using sporegarr shield).

the overall avoidance cuts down on the daamge you take. the high block rating allows you to block frequently, causing damage to mobs from the shield spike plus adding the dot from he sporegarr shield on the mob.

if you have a lot of mobs on you, popping a dynamite on the group plus activating figurine of the colossus works great on agro containment.

still, all this isnt as effective as a paladin's aoe, so it's imperitive that your aoe'ers are aware of this and give you time to generate some agro on the birds. they should be nuking the elite adds from the front first anyways. Aoe needs to remember to back off when you pull the next set of elites from the front to give you time to generate agro on those mobs. theoretically they can single target finish off the birds / kill the rear elites til you got the agro established on the new set of front elites + subsequent bird adds.

madocks
08-08-2008, 05:42 PM
If you get a priest to mind control the guy at the bottom of the hill for 1 minute, u get a minute of no spawns :) - which you should kill the first 3 pairs of mobs in that time

Not sure if its legal or not, but its all over forums and i guess blizz would nerf it if they didnt want u using

Slobash
08-08-2008, 11:24 PM
Sounds like an exploit to me...

Leytur
08-09-2008, 06:05 AM
Sorry, this is most decidedly NOT an exploit. Or a cheat. Or illegal.

How on earth is using mind control in an instance an exploit?

Doc309
08-09-2008, 07:32 AM
two warriors?
no problem.
instead of taking the left to start the gaunlet take the right to that upper lake. have a pet class ( hunter/lock ) /target armani'shi tempest
pet class with two tanks stand on edge, everyone else in lake.
send pet -- pet dies -- tempest and maybe one pair-- come down after hunter/lock ... tanks pick them up -- they die
hunter lock resses pet while everyone else starts the gauntlet, with NO birds, NO adds from behind
save about three mintues on a timed run.
is this an exploit? its been this way for a long time-- posted publically -- blizz must know -- pretty easy to fix ... make tempest stand further back -- but it's still there.

Slobash
08-09-2008, 01:47 PM
You're using MC to get skip the gauntlet spawns. They already patched it once to stop people doing this in other ways so i'm not sure why you think these ways should be acceptable. Blizzard intends for you to charge up the hill and deal with the spawns until you can pull the tempest. The reason they're not fixing it now is that it really doesn't matter. If you are having trouble with the gauntlet then you'll have trouble with the rest of a timed run anyway so you're not gaining much and they're pretty busy getting ready for lich king so this is low on their list of things to do. It's an exploit but it's one you'll probably get away with anyway :) Just don't kid yourself that it's a legitimate strategy haha.

To the OP, make sure the dps is focussing on your primary target (skull) so that you can focus more on it, make sure when the birds come you throw up a TC and a demo shout, TC whenever its cooled down and that the aoers give you a lead time on aoe. The dps should be able to deal with one or two birds hitting em, usually its the trolls causing the problems.

Leytur
08-09-2008, 07:53 PM
Slobash is full of wrong. It would take Blizzard NO time to make a certain mob immune to MC. And to say that using MC on a mob is cheating. . . that's just stupid.

Slobash
08-10-2008, 02:37 AM
Yeah you're right, i'm sure Blizzard totally wanted people to do that and completely avoid the gauntlet up the hill. My bad ;)

phaze
08-10-2008, 11:13 AM
Yeah you're right, i'm sure Blizzard totally wanted people to do that and completely avoid the gauntlet up the hill. My bad ;)
MC doesn't avoid the gauntlet; it just delays the birds/warriors a bit, but also takes one of your DPS out of commission to do it.

Perfectly legit approach, but we've found it provides minimal speedup.

kawika
08-12-2008, 06:29 PM
I guess what my question would be is would other CC effects work on the event starter mob (poly? root?). Still not conclusive either way as blizzard has made mobs partially CC immune (magisters in magisters' terrace). It's still i think a decent indicator.

Cant remember if the mob is targettable after he's active either (or able to perform any action upon). That would be a better indicator of what is or isn't intended.

I hate to sound like a broken record, but this really is the same as the controversy over mandokir pre-BC. It's something that blizzard did not intend but just left unfixed for whatever reasons. I'm 100% certain that blizzard intended for any raid group to face both the static and spawning mobs (from both the front and rear) all at the same time until the tempest is engaged.

With mandokir, i "heard" (never confirmed) that people were temporarily banned from using the spear (or temple) tactic on mandy. Not yet heard of any action taken on the variant strategies for the akilzon gauntlet.


In the end, it's up to the raid/raid leader what they want to do on their raids. My opinion is out there just so they make sure they're just making an informed choice.

Slobash
08-12-2008, 11:21 PM
Pretty sure the mob is immune to all other forms of CC as once he's running you can't kill him (and don't need to). Not sure if he's targettable but he can't be slowed or stunned/cc'd once he's moving (I remember trying a lot as we thought if we could stop him we'd avoid spawns then resigned ourselves to Blizz making sure we did the spawns anyway).

loquatious
08-13-2008, 07:10 AM
The mob cannot be SHeeped/trapped etc BUT he can be mind controlled. While he is mind controlled you delay the eagles and reinforcements. There used to be a trick where you run him over to the first 2 mobs and they kill him, granting your no eagles or guards.

Can anyone who used that trick comment?

Kavel
08-13-2008, 11:46 AM
The mob cannot be SHeeped/trapped etc BUT he can be mind controlled. While he is mind controlled you delay the eagles and reinforcements. There used to be a trick where you run him over to the first 2 mobs and they kill him, granting your no eagles or guards.

Can anyone who used that trick comment?

I mentioned this to our SP and he had a few concerns. One, he said MC has a greater chance to break early if the target takes damage. Two, you'd have to misdirect or otherwise drag the first pull onto the lookout or something, because the MC would likely break if he ran it up there because it would be too far away from the priest. (remember, MC has to be done from max range to avoid triggering the lookout)