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View Full Version : 28/43/0 - The Fury Spec for WotLK?



veneretio
08-08-2008, 09:56 AM
28/43/0 (http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=LIbIzhi00cZVx0VxxRVuobc) - with Instant Slam
28/43/0 (http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=LIbIzhi00cZVx0VxxRVdoxo) - with Rampage

A spec featuring Sudden Death and all the true highlights of the Fury tree. I can really see this being THE spec unless they fix Titan's Grip. Even if they do it may give a spec featuring TG a run for its money since Sudden Death pretty much solves any need to dumb rage with Heroic Strike. (hence why this spec won't really miss the loss of incite)

Customizing it:
- Weapon specialization to taste although it seems Axes or Swords are the best bet
- Imp Demo can become Unbridled Wrath, but personally I'm hoping 5/5 Imp Demo still covers CoR

Tatt
08-08-2008, 10:08 AM
Why the 3 points in the slam modifier talent? Wouldn't it be better in the rage generator or the threat reducer?

Crimsonstorm
08-08-2008, 10:15 AM
Sudden death is not very good in pve, its probably actually a lot more efficient to heroic strike instead, and not go to 0 rage which might delay your cooldowns like BT.

25/46 is better, it adds threat reduction.

Still, they either move blood frenzy into fury, or only reason to bring a fury warrior to raids is if you already have an arms.

ebs2002
08-08-2008, 10:18 AM
I don't like instant slams without Titan's Grip, especially with Sudden Death as well. And with Sudden Death, you'll want as much threat reduction as possible, because Execute has a higher threat-modifier per damage than other abilities. I'd drop the 3pts in bloodsurge, and pop them into rampage and 2/3 Furious Resolve for extra AP/Threat Reduction (you get less threat reduction with Imp Berserker Stance).

This is assuming that Rampage scales up to 80.

veneretio
08-08-2008, 10:19 AM
Sudden death is not very good in pve, its probably actually a lot more efficient to heroic strike instead, and not go to 0 rage which might delay your cooldowns like BT.

Then why do we execute spam at 20%?

Good point regarding slam though.. it may not be worth it. Updated OP to include a rampage spec.

Kazeyonoma
08-08-2008, 10:26 AM
We execute spam at 20% because we effectively try to execute constantly at 15 rage (or 10 if spec'd) because at that point it is damage/rage efficient. Once you get over i think 45 or 50 rage, you'd be better off doing a BT and something else than blow all 50 rage on an execute. The problem with sudden death is that you can't reliably count on it being at 15 rage when you fire it off. Chances are you'll in fact be in the 45-50 range whenever it lights up, thus making it less efficient. It's the same reason why Slam warriors once given enough gear, don't execute spam. They just hold rotation even <19% health because it deals more damage due to their limited rage generation, dumping all of it into 1 big hit would cause a huge drop in dps.

veneretio
08-08-2008, 10:36 AM
We execute spam at 20% because we effectively try to execute constantly at 15 rage (or 10 if spec'd) because at that point it is damage/rage efficient. Once you get over i think 45 or 50 rage, you'd be better off doing a BT and something else than blow all 50 rage on an execute. The problem with sudden death is that you can't reliably count on it being at 15 rage when you fire it off. Chances are you'll in fact be in the 45-50 range whenever it lights up, thus making it less efficient. It's the same reason why Slam warriors once given enough gear, don't execute spam. They just hold rotation even <19% health because it deals more damage due to their limited rage generation, dumping all of it into 1 big hit would cause a huge drop in dps.
See I've read many slam warriors even at the highest level of gear still switch to dual wielding and spam execute.

As to your bloodthirst + Sudden Death issue, just wait. The Sudden Death buff lasts 10 seconds. Use Bloodthirst then Execute. I'm sure you'll have enough rage built up again by the time bloodthirst somes up again. With a 10 second buff and such a high proc rate on it, I think it's just a matter of watching for it and knowing when to properly fit it into your rotation.

Shortypop
08-08-2008, 10:48 AM
I'm not a dps warrior and (hopefully) will never be, but what's the logic of 5/5 booming voice, wouldnt some points in precision be a better investment or maybe imp zerker stance? If we do get two "free" specs, I'll need to know what to spec for solo but forgive me if I'm missing the obvious :)

veneretio
08-08-2008, 10:56 AM
I'm not a dps warrior and (hopefully) will never be, but what's the logic of 5/5 booming voice, wouldnt some points in precision be a better investment or maybe imp zerker stance? If we do get two "free" specs, I'll need to know what to spec for solo but forgive me if I'm missing the obvious :)
I honestly have no idea how those got in there... when I first read this I was like... what the heck is talking about? Then I clicked...wow... updated.

And for the record, I know nothing about Fury dps either lol. Haven't seriously done it since level 60. I just looked at Sudden Death and thought maybe everyone's forgetting about it with all this hype over Titan's Grip which is being found to be a largely useless talent.

Kavtor
08-08-2008, 11:06 AM
I'm assuming on Blizzard's pass, they'll do a number of things.
First, Blood Frenzy and Trauma will go into fury, somehow, with some talent shuffling. They're both too good not to spec into as a DPS warrior, thus with the addition of death knights, it's be even more uncommon to see fury warriors in raids than it is now, unless those talents are moved. It's pretty easy to unlink enrage, and trade it into arms, and make everyone happy with a PVP tree, DPS tree, and tank tree. While their goal with the DK's to make every tree viable across playstyles is an enviable one, I think they're too far down that path with warriors to not keep the trees as each having a primary roll, although adjusting them such that they are broader in abilities.
Second, titan grip will be re-evaluated such that it is a notable upgrade in damage, that doesn't need to be debated about. Likely not a huge damage boost, but at least a clear cut boost.
Third, there'll be some sort of change to the end of the two trees, if only a re-tuning of the 51 point talents. It's hard to say how they'd change things there, based on PVP balance, and how much adaptability they want to have in each tree for different rolls.

If the balance between execute and other abilities stays the same, sudden death is not a good return on rage investment, especially to have in the arms (pvp) tree, where dumping a rage bar is usually a pretty bad idea when you've got MS and HS to keep up.

IMO, especially after seeing how much time they've spent retuning some of the other classes talents, and how willing they've been to make some big changes to existing talents, I think any speculation right now isn't going to be very fruitful, as there is the potential for pretty significant changes.

ebs2002
08-08-2008, 12:22 PM
One other note to your specs:

I'd put 5/5 deflection and 0/3 in Imp Rend. As a fury warrior, you won't be using rend (not usable in berserker stance), and the extra points in parry lend itself to off-tanking easier. Currently, I go 5/5 deflection, 3/3 Imp HS, 3/3 Imp TC, 3/3 deep wounds and 1/1 anger management to get to impale.

Of course, maybe bloodbath will be a worthwhile threat skill for a fury warrior who's offtanking, (and it may be worthwhile to consider in our rotation), so it may be better to go 3/3 imp rend and 2/5 deflection. Time will tell, I guess.

I will say that I disagree that "sudden death is useless", and agree with Vene's reasoning if it is a 10sec buff. There are so many times in my rotation where I'm just refreshing shouts/rampage early, simply because I have nothing else to do (I'm heroic striking already). Being able to prioritize our free cooldowns as such:
Demo Shout > Battle Shout > Rampage > Bloodbath/Execute
Also, Sudden Death is great when there are sheeps/shackles nearby, since even spamming heroic strikes will lead you to capping out on rage if you're not WWing.

ebs2002
08-08-2008, 12:24 PM
Oh, one other note:

I'm going to be trying to find a way to keep Sweeping Strikes. Even with it being nerfed down to 5 attacks instead of 10, being able to pop it and then WW for mega-damage makes me giggle every time

Crimsonstorm
08-08-2008, 12:58 PM
I agree with Kavtor, when we see the warrior changes, theyre likely goign to have Blood frenzy and trauma in fury, and a small buff to titan grip, and hopefully enrage no longer linked to flurry.

Kazeyonoma
08-08-2008, 01:47 PM
I had read the sudden death buff was short, that's why i discounted it, if it is in fact 10 seconds, you're correct, I can see it being very useful.

shiz98
08-08-2008, 03:22 PM
We execute spam at 20% because we effectively try to execute constantly at 15 rage (or 10 if spec'd) because at that point it is damage/rage efficient.
But that's still quite doable with Sudden Death too. If you drop a BT, for example, you'll have 15 rage after a couple hits - Sudden Death time (assuming it's up). It's basically a highly improved form of HS that you need to be careful about. With HS, you can just tap a button when you're over 50 rage and presto, you've dumped it. With Sudden Death, you need to time it carefully so that you won't starve yourself.

The extra rage to use Sudden Death is definitely there - it's just a matter of using it effectively.

byechee
08-08-2008, 04:09 PM
sudden death would be good if you were pro enough to control when you used it based on your current rage and BT/WW cd's.

veneretio
09-02-2008, 09:32 AM
WoW Forums -> [Video] Sudden Death vs. Titan's Grip PvE DPS (http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=9336668592&sid=1)

Necroing this thread since the following wow forums post seems relevant to thought behind it. Now granted he is specing arms, but the idea remains... Sudden Death.. viable?

Rishkkin
09-02-2008, 11:02 AM
wow, just wow.

I'll definitely try it out tonight.

It will feel very weird to DW as arms though.

Crap I don't want to DW, I want to use 1 big fat 2 hander !

but hey, If we can now focus on something else than our swing timer, I guess it's gonna be for the best :D

Gear might be an issue though, as teh best 1 hander I have at the moment, is my good old Fireguard

shiz98
09-02-2008, 02:00 PM
It's a weird spec that doesn't really fit in with the whole Arms thing, at all. I expect something will get changed to make that spec a non-option. What's interesting is that it might be very difficult to nerf correctly.

It looks like most classes are getting a damage boost against mobs under a certain health % in wrath; Execute fulfills that role for warriors. Being able to spam it outside that 20% range is very likely to provide higher DPS than an alternative spec. The issue is that you can't nerf the execute scaling itself, or the other "canon" builds won't be able to make decent use of it. Similarly, most people considered Sudden Death to be fairly useless before the execute changes and this spec surfaced; if Sudden Death gets nerfed to the point where this spec isn't useful, the talent will be completely useless to any other spec.

I predict Sudden Death disappearing in future builds.

Edit: Fixed a few badly worded sentences

Rishkkin
09-02-2008, 05:49 PM
Seeing how blizz fixes thing, I agree that SD will either get nerfed to the ground or entirely removed

Kazeyonoma
09-02-2008, 05:58 PM
SD will get pushed to 51 point talent, badabing.

Rishkkin
09-03-2008, 05:34 AM
if so I will still spec 51 arms then.

Gamnin added a few comment regarding the latest changes :
MMO-Champion BlueTracker - Warrior Update (http://blue.mmo-champion.com/10/9336581178-warrior-update.html)