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pompuspilot
08-06-2008, 11:07 PM
well i wanted to get some input from you guys that have done this and are past this boss. my guild has finally started some real attempts on kalecgos. the strat we used is 4 groups, with 3 tanks goin in the 1st, 3rd, and 5th portals, 2 floaters goin in other portals. we have had alot of problems with this, mainly tanks or floaters getting ported out of order. we did get the boss to 4% on one attempt but that was the best we could do. also i was the 5th portal tank and i found i was the only one goin in that portal because the first group that got ported and should be up for the 5th still had like 15 seconds on their debuff so i would die due to no heals. what i did to fix this was go into the 4th portal and this seemed to be ok.

what one of our raid leaders is thinking of doing is going to a 5 group rotation. with 2 healers, 1 decurser in each group. basically move the tanks into their group as they take the first 5 portals and then the groups would be set after the 5th portal. this sounds like it would be easier to keep from people missing portals or tanks getting ported out of order.

any ideas on if this would work? sorry for the long thread

Armageddn
08-07-2008, 02:55 AM
hmmm wouldn't that result in too much arcane dmg on the last group? i mean the debuff would probably be up at 15 stacks or so, are you sure you can maintain a group that takes that much dmg?!

from my experience with this boss we do it with the 4 group rotation.
3 ordinary groups with 2 healers and 1 decurser.
1 melee group which is a 6 man group of 4 melee and 2 healers (one of them a druid)
1 floater who jumps in the first best portal

The only thing that sucks about this tactic is if the melee group gets the first portal then they have to let a tank in and a melee might miss so just pray that melee don't get the first portal.

Inaara
08-07-2008, 10:05 AM
We use a 5 group rotation. First tank takes portal 1, second tank takes portal 3, MT takes portal 5.
9 healers (been doing with 8 now but stick to 9 until the fight is really comfortable.)
3 tanks
13 dps

This is actually a fight where mages are useful so take 4 if you got em, stick 1 in each group that isnt the melee (or boomkin if you use one). Put a resto druid in the melee group to heal/decurse. Have an AoE healer and focus healer in each of the other four groups with the focus healer concentrating on the tank while the AoE healer brings the group back up after AoE damage.

So our sample raid would look something like this.

G1
Prot Warrior
Mage
Holy Paladin
Resto Shaman
Hunter

Group 2
Feral Druid
Mage
Holy Paladin
CoH Priest
Hunter

Group 3
Prot Paladin
Mage
Resto Shaman
Holy Priest
Shadow Priest

Group 4
Warlock
Warlock
Mage
Resto Druid
Resto Shaman

Group 5
Resto Druid
Enhancement Shaman
Rogue
Rogue
Fury Warrior

As long as people take their portals and pop CD's on demon the fight is cake and falls into place.

pompuspilot
08-07-2008, 12:21 PM
We use a 5 group rotation. First tank takes portal 1, second tank takes portal 3, MT takes portal 5.
9 healers (been doing with 8 now but stick to 9 until the fight is really comfortable.)
3 tanks
13 dps

This is actually a fight where mages are useful so take 4 if you got em, stick 1 in each group that isnt the melee (or boomkin if you use one). Put a resto druid in the melee group to heal/decurse. Have an AoE healer and focus healer in each of the other four groups with the focus healer concentrating on the tank while the AoE healer brings the group back up after AoE damage.

So our sample raid would look something like this.

G1
Prot Warrior
Mage
Holy Paladin
Resto Shaman
Hunter

Group 2
Feral Druid
Mage
Holy Paladin
CoH Priest
Hunter

Group 3
Prot Paladin
Mage
Resto Shaman
Holy Priest
Shadow Priest

Group 4
Warlock
Warlock
Mage
Resto Druid
Resto Shaman

Group 5
Resto Druid
Enhancement Shaman
Rogue
Rogue
Fury Warrior

As long as people take their portals and pop CD's on demon the fight is cake and falls into place.

i like this strat,,its actually what i was thinkin of doin except using 10 healers since your group 5 only has 1 healer. if group 5 gets ported first how do you deal with only 1 healer in the group? if this works well we may try this instead of 10 healers. also with 5 groups your tanks would take portal 1,3, 5 and so on correct? also by the 5th portal that last group is taking alot of damage as the previous posted stated, is this to much of a problem?
thks

Elyvern
08-07-2008, 11:09 PM
My guild has pretty much the same group set up, with the exception that we use a 4-group rotation. MTs go into the group 5 which is the melee group, the remaining 2 melee are assigned to groups 2 & 4. Since the MTs take turn tanking both Kalecgos and the demon, they are instructed to keep watch on spectral debuffs for various groups. When a MT gets ported, they'd call out the next group fresh from the debuff to follow them into demon realm.

Likewise, each group has 1 decurser, 1 group healer, 1 single-target healer - 4 totally self-sufficient teams. We're instructed to cross heal/decurse when we must, especially on the tanks and melee.

Even with a 4 group rotation, the arcane debuff stacking on the last group can hit for 5-6k. That leaves very little room for error. Combine that with the fact that if your group healer gets ported first and you're spam clicking the portal, you may eat another arcane tick and arrive in shadow realm just in time to get volleyed. Popping a HS will not help you then if your healers aren't fast enough. And this is not factoring in the occasional portal explosion damage.

If you insist on going for a 5-group rotation (or even a 4 group one) opt to have every raider aim for a minimum of 100 AR. At that amount, I discovered I was resisted a good number of debuff ticks, which helps with the incoming damage immensely.

pompuspilot
08-08-2008, 12:08 AM
well the problem we are having with 4 group rotation is that i would tank the dragon until the 5th portal and by that time i would be the only 1 left that had not ported so i would go alone and die. i tried to remedy this by goin in the 4th portal but then we would get overlappin at some point since tank 1 would take 1st portal, tank 2 would take 3 portal and i was supposed to take 5th...this is what seemed to cause problems.

Elyvern
08-08-2008, 03:56 AM
It seems that you're unlucky. Because by the 5th portal, the 1st group that gets ported in should've returned already. And since the arcane debuff resets for that group, the group healer can also help to keep you up. Safest way is for MTs to rotate 1/3/4, but the MT that goes in first must be able to quickly grab aggro on the dragon so that the last MT can enter demon realm by the 4th portal. Our MT rotation varies sometimes 1/3/4 or 1/3/5, it doesn't matter as long as for the brief period between the raid getting into demon realm the 1st time, and the next cycle, there are enough healers to keep the MT in the dragon realm up.

We did try the 5-portal rotation before, but since we aren't really overgeared for the encounter, healing is more intensive and people do die from debuff stacking too high. We SS all our MTs, and save brezzes for them. They still die when healing rotation messes up, but since both mobs are tauntable, they just take 1 for the team.

pompuspilot
08-08-2008, 11:57 AM
ya you would think by the 5th portal whoever got 1st portal debuff would be up, but it wasnt, they usually had like 15 seconds on it..so that suked

pompuspilot
08-09-2008, 08:50 AM
i could really use some input on this..ive only got more questions from the replies with no follow up

bruttall
08-10-2008, 08:09 AM
We tried the 4 group strat and had the exact same problem. By the time the tank took the 5th portal, no one else could take it. Our best attempt in this scenario was 30ish%.

We shifted to a 5 portal strat where each group was as self sustaining as possible. The tanks still took portals 1, 3, 5 on a set rotation. Our first full night of attempts with this strategy, we killed him. We had probably tried the 4 group rotation 5-6 full raids over the course of a month....

It was that big of a difference.

pompuspilot
08-10-2008, 09:28 AM
k thks,,well try this tonight and see how it goes

clavarnway
08-15-2008, 07:27 AM
We use a 5 group rotation with a decurser, mt healer, and group healer in each group. Tank rotation is 1/3/5 they just hop in with whichever group gets ported on their portal.

We use BT neck, crafted AR cloak + 15 AR enchant, Kara AR trinket, and the Shadow Protection priest buff. This results in around 120 AR and SR for everybody. This reduces raid damage by about 20%. Noticeable difference for sacrificing neck, cloak, and trinket slot.

At the beginning, all groups need to spread out, because anybody may get a portal. However once a group comes back from the demon realm, they have a debuff that means they cannot be ported for 60 secs. So for 50-55 secs, they can, and SHOULD, stack up on top of each other. This not only maximizes AOE heals like Chain Heal and Circle of Healing but gives other groups that are about to get ported room to spread out so they don't kill each other. Then when that group has 5-10 secs left, they spread out. And since the other groups are stacked, spreading out is easy and they won't hurt anybody else.

pompuspilot
08-15-2008, 08:00 PM
well we tried the 5portal rotation and raid damage was to high so we had to go with the 4 rotation. we have got the boss to enrage several times and even got demon to banish once but we keep dieing during enrage. seems that anything that can go wrong will during the enrage. popping shield wall, last stand and trinket and still died after few seconds. not sure how we can better this part so we can down him. the 5 rotation seems like it would work better and be easier but we cant seem to get it without such high raid damage.

edit-seems that with the 4 group rotation on the 5th portal we always get 1 person getting ported alone and nobody else can go since their debuff is still active(24 people take first 4 portals since only 6 max can go, leaving 1 for 5th) i think the group that took the 1st portal usually has like 10 seconds on their debuff when the 5th portal hits. this kinda screws us because a tank is in the demon with only 1 healer during part of the phase. are we doing something wrong here? i never hear a strat say that this should happen

pompuspilot
08-15-2008, 08:10 PM
heres wws from last raid 19 tries recorded, i know at one point we had to many healers, i think next time were gona try for 10 healers, going down from there as we get better

Wow Web Stats (http://wowwebstats.com/l1gv6ndvjd5oi)

please help with anything you can see were doin wrong

clavarnway
08-16-2008, 05:54 AM
well we tried the 5portal rotation and raid damage was to high so we had to go with the 4 rotation

Do you mean raid damage because people failed at spreading out when they don't have the debuff, or do you mean the 5th group took too much damage because they had to wait so long?

For the first case, takes practice to find the right range at which they won't hurt each other. For the second, bring the Arcane Cauldron and have everybody grab one. Have whoever ends up being the 5th group pop them when it turns out they are going to be the 5th group, so it more easily lets them survive until they get their portal.

pompuspilot
08-16-2008, 09:00 AM
i believe from the last portal taking to much damage

Sanelora
08-16-2008, 09:06 AM
we basically shoved the 5 portal rotation out the door and use a 4 portal rotation cause the damage from the 5th portal is so great that it kills people, especially the tank.

you can (with american ping) get it to (almost) a 3 portal rotation - we are an aussie guild playing with an average MS of about 400~ (on a bad day 600~)

bludwork
08-25-2008, 06:29 AM
We went in there last night to try him for the first time. Going great 30% with everyone up and the NPC died down below. I spent most of my time up in the normal realm but he gets aggro back quite fast doesn't he?

Another thing is sunwell radiance, I was told it was 20% dodge and 5% hit but in my wws it looked more like 10% instead of 20. was it nerfed?

Worldie
08-25-2008, 07:59 AM
No, you just was lucky with dodges.

Sanelora
08-25-2008, 08:39 AM
Percentage is statistical. random number generator is (almost but for all intents and purposes of us, the client) random.

Worldie is right. you just got lucky.

also, if you are not the WWS recorder, the numbers are going to be horribly wrong anyways (remembering that you are in the "spectral realm" some of the time and normal realm the rest of the time).

looking back over my WWS made me remeber, i used to have one where i dodged 25%~ of attacks because i got 2-3 freaky dodge streaks and the WWS dude picked it up then he/i left or entered said realm, apart. on that WWS, i was recorded to have taken less than 50 hits or so. (this is mainly from memory and may not be correct but if it is right or not is beside the point. it illustrates the fact that WWS didnt work correctly)

and to solve any disputes: Max combat log range is 250 yards and does not cross over the zones in kalecgos