View Full Version : Guild's First Attempt at TK

08-05-2008, 07:48 AM
Ok, so this weekend we've decided to head into TK (more like we have a handful trying to push progression) and I've been doing as much research as I can on the encounters, namely VR (which seems simple) as our goal is to down him. What I'm wondering is if anyone has any information on the trash pulls before hand and what I should be expecting?

Also, as for threat gen I'm curious if I should swap out my t4 gloves for the Bonefist Gauntlets and I also have the Dawnforged Defender available for extra hit if needed.

The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Archimonde&n=Vissara)

08-05-2008, 08:41 AM
OK, trash guide written from memory. This is what we do, I'm sure there are other ways :)

First corridor: Take several mages (3 ideally) and sheep anything that looks "magiccy". There's a pat of 3 the large one whirlwinds, so melee start on the others, all three need to be tanked. Then there's 3 pulls of 6 random blood elves, check wowwiki, but sheep all you can as the mages really hurt. We go first group of 6 (as pat leaves), then pat -- but mark it and keep an eye out for it.

In Al'ars room theres two groups of 2 humans and lots of dragonhawks, tank both humans. Either get a pally to tank the dragonhawks or sheep some. If everyone stands with their backs to the wall in the room with the last group of bloodelves and a hunter misd's to the main tank, then tanks pick up their targets. The dragonhawks knock-back so be warned. Repeat with the second group - be careful not to pull both!!!

Then everyone goes into Al'ars room and stands ontop of each other in a corner "behind" the door, single pull the large dragonhawks down to a tank, standing a little way in fornt of the group - misd or decap pull, as you can easily pull two if you're not careful. Have one tank get on its agro list and then run out so he is further away than rest of raid - to eat their charge. These mobs drain mana, so its a bit of a race to get them down before everyone's oom. Rinse and repeat times 4 - moving to other corner by door when needed.

Up the lefthand ramp and first door to your left. There's a pat and then some double pulls of "robots". If you can have warriors tank them and spell reflect "countercharge". For the double pulls, split them up as they can aoe -- I think one "species" countercharges and the other aoe's but dont know for certain. Make sure your second tank's healer goes with him tho and stands out of range of the first one's aoe.

In VR's room, there's 4 stationary groups and one pat. Misd pull the pat into the corridor. Sheep the humanoids and kill the robot. For the groups, sheep the human, banish the two baby demons and tank the one/two robots. Some of the mobs have a knockback and and aoe, so spread the ranged/healers out and make sure you cant get knocked into another group. Make sure your cc is good and holds throughout until you break it.

08-05-2008, 10:11 AM
The robots both AOE and Counter/Overcharge. Overcharge is the big one shot hit for ~15k. Countercharge seems to be more like the Destroyers in Mech's Charged Fist, in that it hits multiple times. It lasts a lot longer though, as I've used spell reflect on it twice before it recast a couple of times.

08-05-2008, 10:25 AM
For VR the biggest mistake my raid made was not having a healer inside melee range. Yes he will have to heal through the pounding or whatever the inner ring AoE attack is called, but he will not have to dodge orbs, and he will be able to keep the melee dps up. Shaman would work well if you have one in the raid because he can chain heal and drop WF and bloodlust for the dps warriors/rogues/ret pally's.

08-05-2008, 09:45 PM
Good luck on VR! CC the "magiccy" (true tank lingo there shorty ;) ) guys on the trash, reflect the Overcharge, MD pulls at VR's room... all good advice. As long as your ranged manages not to get killed by orbs, you'll get him down.

08-06-2008, 05:01 PM
basically everything they said, cause it can kill you.

In alars room, you EASILY can pull two d-hawks. i did our 2nd time in. it was fun, they mana burn, healers were oom at 60% on first bird, but im l33t and no1 died lol. i also popped last stand 2 health pots a nightmare seed and healthstones during the fight.

be super careful in VR's room when pulling the pat, it goes near the first group directly infront of the door, and can pull that entire group. If you pull the pat and that group your raids dead in 30secs. a little bit of an exaggeration but you will wipe, unlike other pulls in TK where if your ready and able you can live thru a double pull.

and like Tattman2an said with healers i agree to have atleast 2 healers in melee range, his groundslam is Arcane dmg so no armor mitigation. our shaman healer pulls 20% or more of the total heals for that fight just because of how much dmg melee takes, and how uber chain heal is.

for VR go all out on threat, he doesnt hit too hard when he hits. i say it like that because he does ground slam a lot. I swapped out tank gear for some dps plate gear, subbed Commendation for Shard of Contempt, and had rage and haste pots as well as hit food. I think fully buffed i was at 102 hit and 44 expertise, 16k hp. some pulls i get lucky and ill survive 3 actual knockbacks(dodgeing many) and still have threat, other pulls i get knocked back, never dodge one, and maybe get attacked 10 times. so having geared offtanks imo is a must.

08-12-2008, 07:29 AM
Well, just to report in...

We got in there and blew through the trash once everyone settled in. The first pull took a while cause of the inexperience and we lost about half of our dps. Since I was unsure what versions of CC were possible, we just used sheeps on the first hall. (My tank target on the first pull had 150k threat by the time we downed it, thats how long it took us.)

We settled in and got through the first hall relatively unscathed (wtb pally tank next time for hatchlings). Made it through the hatchlings with minimal problems and even survived a double Phoenix Hawk pull. The hallway leading into VR's room was uneventful once our warlocks were able to chain banish. Walked out of there with one Nether Vortex and Plans: Red Havoc Boots.

So onto VR and thats where the trouble starts. For some reason our melee dps and their healers were getting hit by the orbs. We had our ranged separated into 3 groups, each with a designated healer. They did very well avoiding the orbs, but melee just kept getting hit. One thing I noticed is that on some of the punts he would continue to focus on the punted tank instead of changing targets. Perhaps its just that the #1 was just too high and even after the punt was #1. I was even targeted by an orb after a punt.

We didn't down him, but we called it a victory. We had some issues with people leaving and had to bring replacements in, so that held us back. I honestly think our dps was low for the encounter, so between that and our melee/melee healer taking orbs I think thats where we ran into our problems.

Here's WWS for dissection. Any tips or suggestions would be appreciated. (Pay no attention to the 0 damage fights, someone got too close too soon)

Wow Web Stats (http://wowwebstats.com/jisq5mpjwkgka)

08-12-2008, 09:09 AM
Your WWS link wasn't working for me, but this WWS link (http://wowwebstats.com/jisq5mpjwkgka) does.

When we were learning VR, orbs would hit melee for one of two reasons. First, and harder to correct, was melee dps backing out of the pounding to bandage, and promptly eating an orb. The second was melee healers standing just outside of the pounding. In both cases you need to stress staying in the pounding. Melee has to pot/healthstone and hope their healers keep them up. The melee healers will just have to heal themselves.

As for your dps, yeah, it was low. You need to have something around 8k dps to down him, if I remember correctly. I'd expect that once your melee manages to stay alive you'll be at or near the needed dps. Keep trying, you'll get him soon enough.

08-12-2008, 10:18 AM
Melee should never be hit by orbs, they should be standing right behind the big robot (tanks in front to build rage faster) with 1-2 healers in there with them. They should all follow quickly if VR moves after punting a tank, and not wait for the tank to reposition.

You may be losing a lot of dps with your grouping method, a single orb stops 1/3 of your dps. If people spread out well and individually dodge balls then you lose a ton less dps per ball. This is harder because each person must watch for themselves, but it will also be good practice for them for later boss fights that require each person paying attention.

08-12-2008, 10:20 AM
The reason melee is getting hit by orbs is because if the tanks are not keeping up the threat, tehn melee has to back out to not pull aggro. They can break off combat, but if they do they cannot see where the threat ceiling is.

08-12-2008, 10:53 AM
That's silly...melee can simply stop attacking (click/hit attack again to toggle it off) surely? And they will still see where they are in Omen.

08-12-2008, 10:55 AM
Unless your omen is different then mine, once you disable combat you do not see the threat because you have no target. Omen only shows you your threat on the SELECTED target. IF the target is selected, and you are melee, than you are either close enough to hit it or far enough away to get hit by an orb.

08-12-2008, 10:57 AM
Melee threat wasn't an issue. Top 3 at all times were tanks. The only time they backed out was to avoid the pound. Our 4-6 on threat were our locks.

08-12-2008, 11:40 AM
They should not back out. That is why you keep healers (escpecially shamans) in melee range, to heal the damage from the pounds. They can't back out fast enough to avoid the pounds anyway. Dps warrior have the stam to survive it, same with ret pallies, rogues should be able to cloak (I dunno) enhance shamans might have the worst luck there, but keep everyone in tight, one orb will do more damage than 2 or 3 rounds of pounding. Also have everyone bring their kara quest trinket, lots of stam and the arcane resistance definately helps reduct the pounding damage.

08-12-2008, 01:00 PM
Unless your omen is different then mine, once you disable combat you do not see the threat because you have no target. Omen only shows you your threat on the SELECTED target. IF the target is selected, and you are melee, than you are either close enough to hit it or far enough away to get hit by an orb.

You can keep the boss selected and stop attacking though???

08-12-2008, 01:14 PM
Please explain how? I am a fury warrior, I am on VR's rear end. He is literally taking up my entire screen. How do I break off combat or unclick on him when no matter where I point, I am pointing at him? If there is a way to do this please let me know.

08-12-2008, 02:41 PM
I click my attack key again or hit the shortcut key for attacking again to stop autoattacking... I don't _think_ I'm going crazy, I stopped attacking bloodboil completely and just watched his health while my debuffs faded last night...

It doesn't get you out of combat, you're just not smacking at the mob targetted until you use an ability again - note that if you stop attacking but still have boss targetted then you use an enemy-targetted ability, for example shield bash or mortal strike, then you will be back to autoattacking. I think you can safely reapply commanding shout and other non-enemy targetted abilities without attacking again though, and can shield block without autoattacking too.

If you removed attack from your UI ages ago, its in your General tab of abilities, I think its one of the first ones on the list.

08-12-2008, 02:59 PM
I will have to check next time I play if that will allow me to still see my place on the omen screen. If it works, ty for the advice.

08-13-2008, 02:28 AM
We've only ever used sheep on the first corridor as cc - no idea if MC works, suspect trapping could be exciting given the space constraints.

As you say a big thing is getting locks used to chain banishing, get the focus macros like a lot of mages use and that will help a lot.

For VR, I've never been anything but tank, but if you do get punted back and he stays on you you need to run quickly back in and the melee need to stay close to avoid any confusion over whether they are in "orb" range or not. For dps I would think you need most people in the 600-800 range to down him.

08-17-2008, 08:51 PM
Well, week 2 of attempting VR and we downed him on 3rd attempt. Unfortunately we had a large group of folks we had to replace. (Most of the replacements ended up being from the same guild. Who btw we will never raid with again.) Trash went worse than the week before. VR was much smoother. People paid attention and got out of the orbs. I think we only ended up losing 4 people.

Loot for the night was Wristguards of Determination (which went to me), two Hero tokens and one Defender. All of the loot went to folks in my guild. So I'm looking forward to next week to see how we do. I have my worries of course, but we'll see.

08-18-2008, 12:46 AM
Grats Viss, as more and more people learn and see the fight it will get smoother, if you have a big pool of "casual" players it will take longer for it to be clean but that's all.