PDA

View Full Version : Convincing a guild to carry a MT warrior



Magnum
08-04-2008, 08:33 AM
Well the word came down today that throughout MH and BT the warriors will be asked to respec DPS while our Pally and Druid will be MT.

This was a big blow to me as a warrior tank who, while new, has 100% raid attendance and comprable gear & ability (don't want to get into a bragging match)

Any advice on convicing them to carry a third tank prot spec'd? Should I just suck it up and DPS?

Biggest problem is the 2 MT are longstanding officers who do their job well. Its not that they are bad tanks, just that us warriors have never been givien a chance. Plus after spending all my time getting prot gear to redo everything is well, frustrating. Added to the fact that 10-man content is bascially closed to me due to politics (1 set group runs ZA, no warriors welcome and 1 set group runs kara--no open spots) and I'm really up the creek dps gear wise.

Any thoughts on a convicing argument to make for a warrior tank in BT/MH or just take my lumps and dps.

-Thx

mero12513
08-04-2008, 09:08 AM
There's this great website that your guild leadership should read: www.tankspot.com (http://www.tankspot.com)
Tell them to go there and read some of the great forum posts about how there really isn't any encounter in the game that a warrior can't tank. Tanking is about dependability, skill, and preparedness.

They may be telling warriors to respec because the the druid and paladin are simply better players who are more dependable. That's the only reasonable excuse for sidelining a warrior as far as I know. Show yourself to be the better player, and help your guild leaders educate themselves about tanking. Warriors as a class will always-ALWAYS-be viable guild main tanks. What matters more is the player.

Edit - if your guild is such that there is no viable way for you to progress and/or show your ability, it's time to find a new guild. Set up your own Kara and ZA runs and invite pugs if you have to, just so you can show that you're a dedicated player.

suesse_llane
08-04-2008, 09:39 AM
If you're the only warrior, then I think it makes sense to respec to arms when a 3rd tank isn't needed just for the 4% physical damage debuff. Otherwise, BT is a 3-tank dungeon (Supremus, Akama, Bloodboil, Mother, Council, and Illidan all benefit from 3 tanks if not required). It doesn't really make sense for you to respec in this situation because prot dps is pretty reasonable in the right gear -- and you can apply the 5x sunder armor debuff easily where a non-prot warrior would have a hard time.

If you can't get dps gear from PvE, you need to be doing BGs and Arenas weekly for S3 gear and whatever S4 gear your rating allows.

Silthias
08-04-2008, 09:48 AM
(1 set group runs ZA, no warriors welcome and 1 set group runs kara--no open spots)


There is the main line that i paid attention to, that says to me that you need to get out asap. Find a new guild. As for not having warriors tank, well ROS will need it for p2 at least.

Realistically it sounds like the officers/leaders are either focused on being the only tanks or they just don't trust you and any other warriors. either way id find out why they have made the decision and then make a decision on how to go on from there.

Regards,

Silthias

Gehn
08-04-2008, 10:09 AM
I hit a similar situation 3 months ago as I transferred to a different server to guild with old guildies of mine from EQ. They had never had a warrior tank for the guild and were just starting T5 content.

It was tough to break in. They only knew how a tankadin worked and did not understand what a warrior brings to the table. After 3 raids of asking to slap on DPS gear and OT only when the 3 other paladins faltered, I sent a PM through our website to the main raid organizer. I just told him what I could bring to the table as a tank and that, if not used to my full extent, why was I brought into the guild?

I am unsure if your situation is similar. You might have joined the guild w/o recruitment. But if you did not, they brought you in for a reason. I would give them the opportunity to re-evaluate that reason. If, after their evaluation, they are not putting you into the tanking rotation, I suggest moving on.

suesse_llane
08-04-2008, 10:19 AM
There is the main line that i paid attention to, that says to me that you need to get out asap.

Assuming this guy logged out in his best dps gear, I think it's pretty reasonable that they won't let him do ZA assuming also that they're using a pally tank. In ZA with a pally tank, he should be dpsing on Eagle, Hex Lord, and Zul'jin. If his best dps gear in many slots is his tanking gear, that's a serious issue. Given the choice between a warrior with little/no dps gear and a bear/cat, you're going to pick the bear/cat.

Some might feel differently, but I always think it's better to have a prot warrior dpsing than a prot paladin healing (particularly when you don't need the extra healer).

madocks
08-04-2008, 10:20 AM
stay prot for BT, when you need 3 tanks - your fine

When you need 2 tanks, the smelly druid gets on his cat gear and does dps

Ukk
08-04-2008, 12:00 PM
So if I read this right: you are not allowed to tank, you have to re-spec to dps and you can't do guild badge runs to get decent dps gear.

WTF?? I understand your need to QQ, but duh, /gquit already. Like NOW.

CyCy
08-04-2008, 02:01 PM
Ahhhhhhhh yeah /gquit. Why stay if you wanna tank be a tank. And if you wanna stay and can't do badge runs WTF WHY NOT!

Doc309
08-04-2008, 02:10 PM
even if the druid pally are better choices for ZA... they are not the only choices. and a guilds progress depends on gearing 25-40 toons.
NOT the ten best for ZA timed events.

minrog
08-04-2008, 04:28 PM
I would kill to be in your shoes my friend. :P Many bosses.

If they picked their "guy" for one tank fights and he happens to be a druid it makes a lot of sense having you go DPS. I had a good in game friend who was probably the best druid tank I've played with and I had him tanking a lot of the encounters because of his skill. I played debuffer/OT and he put down the uber threat plus I got a chance to do some fun DPS as well, even if stance dancing for Tclap was a PITA.

Class envy arguments aside, it's a team and the GM/RL picked their go to guys. You may not be one of them at this time but I can almost guarantee that when your feral MT quits (*sniff*) you'll be bummed out having to tank everything and never getting that DPS time.

Practice and refine the Prot DPS deal. There is a thread about it on tankspot where a couple guys were hitting like 2k DPS with devastate spam. If you prove you can bring decent DPS and utility with imp tclap/demo shout you might be able to convince the RL that one of the warriors can stay Prot and be a backup tank for when the Pally/Druid are sick or w/e. It will probably cost you thousands of gold and some pvp time but you can put a DPS set together fairly quickly.

Also, in regards to Sunder x 5 debuff stacks. I don't know about you guys but we made a Rogue pickup the improved expose armor talent and use that. When I'm tanking (warrior) I make him wait 10 or so seconds so I don't lose the initial devastate threat spike.

bludwork
08-05-2008, 08:37 AM
so just dps. what's the big deal?

mero12513
08-05-2008, 09:10 AM
I think the big deal is that he joined the guild with the understanding that he is a tank, and he wants to tank. Recruiting someone in a certain capacity and then saying that that capacity is no longer needed is harsh to say the least. It comes down to this: do you care more about tanking or more about your guild? If your guild doesn't have any RL friends and they are stopping you from playing the game the way you want to, /gquit.
RL friends make it more complicated, so it's a situational call.

orcstar
08-05-2008, 09:16 AM
I would pick the most reliable members in the MT position, and that's not someone who is new in the guild. 100% raid attendance make you a dedicated raider but you need some more seniority to be that person the guild can count on and will stay in good or bad times and is not the person to go when another guild with some more bosses on farm comes knocking on the door.

Both Zul'Aman and Karazhan can be pugged, if both runs are closed, then it shouldn't be that hard to find some other guildies who you can drag along.

Being a Main Tank is more then tickling that bosses cross: a main tank should be a leader, show you're a leader, make your own Karazhan and Zul'Aman groups and show you're succesfull.

Andenthal
08-05-2008, 04:32 PM
I would pick the most reliable members in the MT position, and that's not someone who is new in the guild. 100% raid attendance make you a dedicated raider but you need some more seniority to be that person the guild can count on and will stay in good or bad times and is not the person to go when another guild with some more bosses on farm comes knocking on the door.

Both Zul'Aman and Karazhan can be pugged, if both runs are closed, then it shouldn't be that hard to find some other guildies who you can drag along.

Being a Main Tank is more then tickling that bosses cross: a main tank should be a leader, show you're a leader, make your own Karazhan and Zul'Aman groups and show you're succesfull.

While I agree with you 100% on the MT issue - that is not really the case in point for this thread, I think you missed it. The OP is being asked to respec - to not tank at all, ever. He's not arguing if he should be MT or OT. He's arguing that he should be a tank....period. He joined as a tank, and is now being asked to step into another role.

There were a few people saying, "so what, just DPS." Would you say the same thing to a DPS Warrior, forced to resepc Protection for his guild?

Ceravantes
08-05-2008, 07:53 PM
Telling someone "so what, Just DPS" in a situation like this is akin to telling someone hired to sell cars to fix them. What if he doen't know how to fix a car? why should he, after being hired to sell them be forced to fix them? If they new they didn't need another tank why string him along the recruitment to start with?

He said he was new to the guild, so obviously they very recently thought another tnak was neccesary, what has changed?

Aside from all that, most of the fights there require or at the very least are more efficiently done with 3 tanks, so why limit it to 2 anyways. Do what most guilds would do anyone, sit a tank for a fight if they aren't needed, rotate around so you all get gear etc.

Bottom line is, if I am recruited to tank don't tell me a week later I can't tank anymore.

Kamani
08-05-2008, 09:18 PM
Bad officers. /gquit and find another guild.

automatics
08-06-2008, 08:09 AM
Sounds like a sketchy situation and poor leadership. Something tells me that they are giving you the run arround and that as soon as you respec, you won't get raid invites to progression content becuse they will probably end up wanting to bring a better geared dps class in your place.

Our guild usualy runs with 2 prot warriors, 1 prot pally, and a feral druid. Each tanking class brings a great deal of class specific utility and any guild tha leaves any class out of a raid is biased too much to a particular class.

If you intend to tank, and stay a tank you should probably start apping for guilds. If you are ok with going fury and they will let you raid as dps, explain to them you need gear from ZA and a ton of badges so you can contribute to the raid.

bludwork
08-06-2008, 08:12 AM
Well what I meant was nothing is set in stone, things change, no guild ever uses the same 25 people ever. So go as dps, collect tanking gear as you're the only warrior in the raid anyway and eventually you can leave well geared or be asked to switch to tanking at some point. Patience goes a long way in this game.

hbombs
08-06-2008, 08:49 AM
Magnum I call BS on your guild. You and I both know warriors are the only real tanks pally's should stick to healing and druids should just re roll warlocks. Dont give up the fight!

bosephus
08-06-2008, 10:44 AM
As said before, BT is a three tank dungeon. There's lots of encounters where a warrior is specifically helpful, as well. Spell Reflecting Gathois and Reliquary particularly come to mind.

Hyjal usually requires a couple other tanks besides the Paladin to pull abominations. Too many knockdowns will result in a dead Paladin.

If your guild leaders don't understand this, just find another guild. Management doesn't seem to understand the obstacles that lie ahead of them. Why bother?

Krashtork
08-06-2008, 10:55 AM
Good luck doing Archimonde without a warrior.

Magnum
08-06-2008, 11:42 AM
Update:
Well I spoke to my guild leaders about my frustration with this; with being locked out of 10 mans and being asked to respec. The response I got back was mixed. I understand why they did what they did ( i was more flexible than the other warriors, who disappeared in between when the deicsion was made and when it was made public; Need a leader and all warriors are new, etc...), but their actions still aren't living up to those statements. I have yet to see any warrior tank a boss, even if my chance may be "comming soon." In fact we had a healer re-spec to prot last night so he could OT a new boss, rather than have me do it (I was still prot--had highest HP/Armor AND avoidance of all the tanks present). It'd be one thing if I'd had problems, but i've never even had a chance.

So we are now SHORT on tanks and having healing pallies respec while warriors sit on the sidelines (had 2 prot warriors sitting idle during bossfights last night, well one of us was DPSing--they other guy doesn't have DPS gear). I think there is a definite lack of trust in warriors in general.

Thanks everyone for the feedback and advice. Looks like I'm on the guild hunt again (o joy! Maybe I'll just level an alt).

Celandro
08-06-2008, 12:08 PM
If you logged out in your every day tanking gear, I wouldnt let you MT BT/Hyjal either

Problems:
No epic gems
No badge ring
No badge chest
Suneater for anything other than pure avoidance set (bad agro)
No commendation trinket
No on-use avoidance trinket (moroes or better)
No points in improved demo shout (although that may depend on other warriors)
No run speed on boots
Total avoidance of only 40.56%

All combined it shows a lack of some combination of raid experience, gold, initiative, class knowledge.

mero12513
08-06-2008, 12:09 PM
Asking healer to respec prot instead of using you was an absolute dickwad move on the part of your leadership, imho. /gquit.

On an only vaguely related note, I hear that a lot of people around here are frustrated with guilds and/or are currently guild-less. Has anyone toyed with the idea of making a "tanks-for-hire" guild? I already have more geared tanks in my guild than DPS (although it's still only like 8 people total).

Raid group pays 10/50/100g an hour for an awesome tank/raid leader.

Honestly a rather retarded idea, but I'm bored at work--what can I say?

Alent
08-06-2008, 12:15 PM
What boss in the game could possibly require two prot paladins and a feral druid but not a prot warrior? O_o

CyCy
08-06-2008, 12:47 PM
On an only vaguely related note, I hear that a lot of people around here are frustrated with guilds and/or are currently guild-less. Has anyone toyed with the idea of making a "tanks-for-hire" guild? I already have more geared tanks in my guild than DPS (although it's still only like 8 people total).

Raid group pays 10/50/100g an hour for an awesome tank/raid leader.

?


I like that idea! It would really save having to do trash mobs and Let MT's pick there play schedule. Just spam a schedule website in trade and let people bid on runs. If they wanna run when it's not convenient charge em more.:D

klor
08-06-2008, 12:47 PM
If you logged out in your every day tanking gear, I wouldnt let you MT BT/Hyjal either

Problems:
No epic gems
No badge ring
No badge chest
Suneater for anything other than pure avoidance set (bad agro)
No commendation trinket
No on-use avoidance trinket (moroes or better)
No points in improved demo shout (although that may depend on other warriors)
No run speed on boots
Total avoidance of only 40.56%

All combined it shows a lack of some combination of raid experience, gold, initiative, class knowledge.

What does this have to do with anything? The wow forums are that way --------->

The topic at hand was obviously the paladin and druid in the past have had issues with warrior tanks stealing their spotlight and not letting them MT. Now they are in a place of superiority to where they can limit what the warriors can do. Not once did the OP ask to MT. He said he wanted to TANK. Recruited as a prot warrior, then told to respec in order to get raid invites knowing full well he did not have good dps gear. I would rather take a decently geared prot warrior over a budget dps warrior with very little dps gear anyday. The end result is one more person there as an 'oh shit' moment as opposed to wasted dps slots. To top it off, they dont even take the OP to ZA or Kara to gear him out even though he atleast shows the dedication to want to go even WITH being forced to respec. My advice, pug it. I put together a 3 chest timed ZA yesterday just by spamming trade channel on my shaman. You'll find tons of friends that way. Hell, PUGs are the only reason I got to see the inside of BT. I got my name out by doing PUGs all the time and finally got invited to a newly forming guild as their MT because they had 0 prot warriors and they had ran with me multiple times.

As for the person above. When I first walked into MH/BT, I didnt use hardly any of that stuff. The commendation didnt exist, i used autoblocker over moroes, I didnt use the badge chest because I still, to this day, feel it is garbage, I had a mallet of the tides over suneater because my guild had recently downed Lurker, I didnt use the badge ring because I liked the hyjal/za ones better, I dont spec for imp demo(neither did our other warriors), and I dont use run speed on my boots. Coming down on a person for these things is just egotistical and makes you a pompus ass. None of them are required for Hyjal or BT. So, like i previously stated, go back to the WoW forums if you wish to respond in such ways. It is not welcome here.

One other thing I will toss out there to the OP. If they are benching warriors and making healers respec to tank, they obviously know nothing about guild leadership or perhaps its that they are biased towards their small group of friends in the guild. Guilds like this are not the place to be. I had joined maybe 3 or 4 of them on my server back when I first xfered to it right before I told them to shove it and went to pug their progression. That was about 5 or 6 months ago maybe a little longer. Most of those guilds were pushing Vashj and Kael around the time right before they took the attunements for MH/BT out. Today, none of those guilds exist. They all collapsed inward on each other due to their small groups of people running off those excluded from the inner circle. Just be weary of these guilds man. Its not worth the time putting up with it. This game is here for you to enjoy.

Krashtork
08-06-2008, 01:14 PM
On an only vaguely related note, I hear that a lot of people around here are frustrated with guilds and/or are currently guild-less. Has anyone toyed with the idea of making a "tanks-for-hire" guild? I already have more geared tanks in my guild than DPS (although it's still only like 8 people total).

Raid group pays 10/50/100g an hour for an awesome tank/raid leader.

Honestly a rather retarded idea, but I'm bored at work--what can I say?

I have actually toyed around with the idea of a mercenary guild. Grab a couple good buddies and just sell raid slots.

But, i ended up finding my current guild and have been very happy with it so far, so the mercenary guild idea has been pushed to the back burner for now.

Celandro
08-06-2008, 01:25 PM
What does this have to do with anything? The wow forums are that way --------->

The topic at hand was obviously the paladin and druid in the past have had issues with warrior tanks stealing their spotlight and not letting them MT. Now they are in a place of superiority to where they can limit what the warriors can do. Not once did the OP ask to MT. He said he wanted to TANK. Recruited as a prot warrior, then told to respec in order to get raid invites knowing full well he did not have good dps gear. I would rather take a decently geared prot warrior over a budget dps warrior with very little dps gear anyday. The end result is one more person there as an 'oh shit' moment as opposed to wasted dps slots. To top it off, they dont even take the OP to ZA or Kara to gear him out even though he atleast shows the dedication to want to go even WITH being forced to respec. My advice, pug it. I put together a 3 chest timed ZA yesterday just by spamming trade channel on my shaman. You'll find tons of friends that way. Hell, PUGs are the only reason I got to see the inside of BT. I got my name out by doing PUGs all the time and finally got invited to a newly forming guild as their MT because they had 0 prot warriors and they had ran with me multiple times.

As for the person above. When I first walked into MH/BT, I didnt use hardly any of that stuff. The commendation didnt exist, i used autoblocker over moroes, I didnt use the badge chest because I still, to this day, feel it is garbage, I had a mallet of the tides over suneater because my guild had recently downed Lurker, I didnt use the badge ring because I liked the hyjal/za ones better, I dont spec for imp demo(neither did our other warriors), and I dont use run speed on my boots. Coming down on a person for these things is just egotistical and makes you a pompus ass. None of them are required for Hyjal or BT. So, like i previously stated, go back to the WoW forums if you wish to respond in such ways. It is not welcome here.

One other thing I will toss out there to the OP. If they are benching warriors and making healers respec to tank, they obviously know nothing about guild leadership or perhaps its that they are biased towards their small group of friends in the guild. Guilds like this are not the place to be. I had joined maybe 3 or 4 of them on my server back when I first xfered to it right before I told them to shove it and went to pug their progression. That was about 5 or 6 months ago maybe a little longer. Most of those guilds were pushing Vashj and Kael around the time right before they took the attunements for MH/BT out. Today, none of those guilds exist. They all collapsed inward on each other due to their small groups of people running off those excluded from the inner circle. Just be weary of these guilds man. Its not worth the time putting up with it. This game is here for you to enjoy.
You may not like the way I am presenting the facts, but as a guild leader and raid leader of a guild in a similar situation progression wise, I would say the exact same thing to any applicant. I'm not even trying to be mean, just answer why they didnt want this person to tank. Its not any individual thing that says not serious enough about tanking to trust with the job. Its the combination of all the things I listed.

Whatever gear you used 6 months ago has nothing to do with what gear a tank just entering T6 should have now. 40% avoidance is simply unexplainable. Getting badges + ZA upgrades does not take a guild group, and the lack of them after so many months would be extremely worrisome to any raid leader.

We are getting 1 side of the story. I checked gear and their paladins Kaelguard (probably MT), Leviathahn, Orilada, Croxx and their druid Ghosthooves are for the most part better geared than the original poster. I'm sure it makes everyone feel great to bash guild leaders/officers without hearing their side of the story, but its not fair at all. They may not have the guts to say why they didnt want you to tank.

Take what I said as the constructive criticism it was intended as. If you want to MT, go get the badge upgrades i mentioned. Get epic gems in every slot. Upgrade that weapon, put boar's speed on your boots. Run some ZA's, etc. If your guild still won't let you tank, you will have a much easier time finding a new one if you do these things.

Magnum
08-06-2008, 01:47 PM
. They may not have the guts to say why they didnt want you to tank.


I think that's really what it boils down to. If you told me to do what you posted, I'd a done it (need me in all epic gems--ok done; one guild i was apping to wanted all my dps gear upgraded. I did it later that night). If you can't talk to you members, what's the point. Why was I recruited to do this in the first place? Its not like I was aksed to have all epic gems. They were very excited to get me (or so I thought on my app--I'd done most of the content they were on a year earlier) and I waas very excited to get the invite to tank. Whats with the double secret probabtion? (I have higher avoidance--was asked to have 20k HP buffed. So i put on HP)

Look i like to raid as much as the next guy and have a passion to do it. but like one of the above posters said, this game is for fun, and currently I'm having a lot more fun doing my thing scrounging up 5 mans (Its true---word gets out you can multi-tank as a warrior and the invites start pouring in) and hopefully i can get a kara run going today (Yeah i'd rather do BT, but ya go with what ya got). I'd rather be raiding, but we really don't need the kid's games and super-secrets. I'm in an adult guild (I thought). As hard as it is to find a new guild, I've never had trouble in the past once I got a chance to show my stuff.

klor
08-06-2008, 01:57 PM
You may not like the way I am presenting the facts, but as a guild leader and raid leader of a guild in a similar situation progression wise, I would say the exact same thing to any applicant. I'm not even trying to be mean, just answer why they didnt want this person to tank. Its not any individual thing that says not serious enough about tanking to trust with the job. Its the combination of all the things I listed.

Whatever gear you used 6 months ago has nothing to do with what gear a tank just entering T6 should have now. 40% avoidance is simply unexplainable. Getting badges + ZA upgrades does not take a guild group, and the lack of them after so many months would be extremely worrisome to any raid leader.

We are getting 1 side of the story. I checked gear and their paladins Kaelguard (probably MT), Leviathahn, Orilada, Croxx and their druid Ghosthooves are for the most part better geared than the original poster. I'm sure it makes everyone feel great to bash guild leaders/officers without hearing their side of the story, but its not fair at all. They may not have the guts to say why they didnt want you to tank.

Take what I said as the constructive criticism it was intended as. If you want to MT, go get the badge upgrades i mentioned. Get epic gems in every slot. Upgrade that weapon, put boar's speed on your boots. Run some ZA's, etc. If your guild still won't let you tank, you will have a much easier time finding a new one if you do these things.

I started Hyjal 2 months ago :)

Ceravantes
08-06-2008, 02:35 PM
I don't really understand why the gear I started BT/Hyjal with, which was far from waht you listed btw, is not good enough to start it now?

i also don't understand why you think run speed is a must have.....not once did I ever use run speed, and not once did I ever wipe/die/cause deaths because I didnt have it.

I don't understand why you think gemming with all epics is going to make or break an encounter, when the chances are it will not.

I really don't understand why you think the world will apparently end if someone doesn't have imp demo....waste of points for a prot warrior imo. if you can't handle a little extra ap on a boss you shouldn't be tnaking it anyways, progression content or farm.

I am also going to agree with Kor, myself and so many others have spent way to long making this a pleasureable and helpful community to have people come in a treat it like the wow forums.

Telling us it's because you are a guild/raid leader isn't gonna help....so many people here, including myself, are/have been in the past and are not treating people like that.

lastly, its been said a few tiems in the post, but it seemed to have been overlooked. He is not looking to usurp anyones position as a MT, only looking for a chance to tank period. Clearly they realize they need a third tank if they are having a healer respec, so ignorance is no excuse. And if in fact it is because they are to afraid to be honest with him about their reasons then they truly have no right to be leading any guild, or Main taning anything. Leadership requires the ability to communicate honestly....if you cant manage that you can't be a leader, not a successful one anyways.

Celandro
08-06-2008, 03:01 PM
Subject of the post is Convincing a guild to carry a MT warrior

I read the whole post and all the drama which while interesting, doesn't get to the question.

If you want to MT
1) Have near perfect attendence
2) Have some seniority in the guild
3) Outgear the current MT
4) Outskill the current MT
5) Make friends and influence people to convince the guild leader/officers to let you do it
Or secret option #5, start your own guild.

I focused on #3 which had been completely ignored in the thread. I posted a very quick list before I headed off to lunch as to why I would pick someone else to MT.

I apologize if it came off as more negative than intended, but I stand by the intent of the post, especially the clarifying statement in my previous post:

Take what I said as the constructive criticism it was intended as. If you want to MT, go get the badge upgrades i mentioned. Get epic gems in every slot. Upgrade that weapon, put boar's speed on your boots. Run some ZA's, etc. If your guild still won't let you tank, you will have a much easier time finding a new one if you do these things.

Elyvern
08-07-2008, 09:52 PM
Take what I said as the constructive criticism it was intended as. If you want to MT, go get the badge upgrades i mentioned. Get epic gems in every slot. Upgrade that weapon, put boar's speed on your boots. Run some ZA's, etc. If your guild still won't let you tank, you will have a much easier time finding a new one if you do these things.

Point taken, but it still stands that he has been denied chances to run ZA or Kara with his new guild. Badge upgrade, epic gems, weapon upgrade - every single item mentioned requires him to be present during a run. I find it extremely bad form that a guild recruits him in the capacity of a tank, then refuse to give him chances to tank, no worse, refuse to bring him on runs even, and then get offspecs to spec prot and push him to spec dps. This tells me that the guild cannot stand firm on decisions they make and aren't trustworthy. More than any other role, a tank relies on gear to succeed. If you have to PUG outside the guild for a chance at runs, you're better off guildless, seriously.

uglybbtoo
08-07-2008, 10:31 PM
What boss in the game could possibly require two prot paladins and a feral druid but not a prot warrior? O_o

Require no ... but makes easier most of hijal.

Why the pally's can zip thru the waves easier and the druid can generate high threat on the boss with higher HP if your healers are low or inexperienced.

edit: that said I agree with Celandro the MT is the one with the best gear, attendance and attitude but yes not allowing runs in guild badge runs sux

Gromblee
09-03-2008, 01:32 AM
heh....yeah i am a Kara tank usually OT due to we have a pally tank with better gear. If a guild recruits you as a tank they should use you as such. If they do not think the OP is geared enough for ZA or content higher then they should put him in tank rotation for Kara (for badges if nothing else). That is why it is called a rotation..... A guild that recruits a tank and then will not let him tank or will not help him gear up is inexcusable. I am not saying the guild should hand him the gear on a platter but sit a Kara tank once in a while to help him get badges. I have recently fought thru what i consider a very tough level to break through...... from non raider to raider the hump to get some epic pieces for a tank...... I had to get invited to Kara while I was undergeared as OT to get the pieces I needed to really make me useful in Kara and I thank my guild for that chance. I'm a little off topic but the upshot is if a guild recruits a tank they should use him as a tank and not just expect him to respec because they like Pally's better. Each tanking class has their strong points such as the damage mitigation of a Warrior can not be matched by a stinky old bear.

protonly
09-14-2008, 08:43 PM
If you were brought in to do a job and aren't allowed to do it, then leave. You'll only frustrate yourself the longer you stay.

Why a guild wouldn't want a warrior tank is beyond me. Maybe not as their MT but with all the fights that require multiple tanks you really can't say who is the number one mt anymore.

nobel
09-15-2008, 10:29 AM
So how does the man get tanking gear if he can't get runs..?? Celandro made a point saying he didn't have the gear to MT.. regardless if he has the gear or not the guild brought him in to tank.. perhaps not MT but to tank.. and now he can't find groups at all in anything (and it certainly sounds like he is trying) So the question isn't does he have the gear to MT but why would the guild bring him in, if now they want him to DPS.
IMO look for a new guild, the leadership is shit, they have no idea how to handle raids. If they brought you in as a tank and now arn't willing to help you out then gtfo.. I hate guilds and guild leaders who think you owe them something becuase they let you in the guild but then arn't even willing to help you but they would rather give critizism on stuff that you can't even address or resolve due to lack of confidance, assistance and guidance on there part.

I do feel for you tho man, i was apart of a guild who never had good taking warriors.. i came in when they where just starting SSC with basically druids and paladin tanks. I had to work through the system and by the time we got a couple bosses in the druids where dpsing..

If sounds to me that perhaps the druids and paladin officers are not confident in your abilities as a tank.. which is something that happens to all new tanks in a guild. But if they never give you the opportunity to gain that confidance then you will not be happy man.

Ghreystar
09-15-2008, 11:28 AM
what they seem to be saying, IMO, is that you have not yet proven yourself as a MT. please understand that being a main tank is earned, never given. being out in front of the raid puts 24 other people in your hands. simple screw ups that other classes get away with are not tolerable for main tanking. screwing up as the MT leads to wipes. you need to find a way to prove yourself to this new guild. figure out who the power to sway opinion, and go after them. get yourself into heroics with them, at least you can show 4 other people your skill. start winning them over slowly.

until then, i'd go dps and grab all the "offspec" tanking items you can... and always keep an eye open for a guild that needs tanks. before you leave the guild you have, ask your new guild prospects if you can run something with them first, try to get a feel for them. the way i see it: mt>ot>dps offspec>no guild>not raiding.

navajo
09-15-2008, 03:49 PM
hey new to the forums from reading the OP problems with the guild i have to ask do they just think your a bad tank and maybe not able to tell you ? i mean as you said they are not used to running with warrior tanks they are used to pally and druid tanks.maybe they dont understand how it should go with a warrior tank.also could be gear aside you are not a good tank in their eyes . i would say gquit them since they are having healers respecc to do the job you came in for .definatly check your gear and gemming to see what you can improve in . and take pug runs cause no tank is good if they dont get the practice in /keep thier skills up .

Kyvaan
09-16-2008, 08:05 AM
if i where in your shoes i would not sweat not being able to MT that much at this point in time. with the expansion coming out in less than 2 months i would try and roll with pugs as much as possible, on my server theres pugs for almost everything. i got most of my gear from puggin it out with some of my buds from other guilds due to the fact whenever i raided with my guild stuff would refuse to drop for me (damn you mallet of tides !!!!!!!!!!!) with kara/gruul/mag once per week and one or two heroics a day you can get all that sweet badge gear you need. i would've quit that guild long ago, roll guildless so many guilds will be poping up/breaking up when xpac releases it wont be hard to find a new home for your tank. good luck with everything and just remember MT is earned not given.

Celandro
09-16-2008, 09:52 AM
WTF Kyvaan?

You finally back in the states? Drop by the forums and say hi!

Kyvaan
09-16-2008, 02:20 PM
hey cel im not back just yet 2 more months to go but im in a port where we actually get intertnet :) ill definately drop by to say hello:D

Daavos
09-17-2008, 07:33 AM
Subject of the post is Convincing a guild to carry a MT warrior

I read the whole post and all the drama which while interesting, doesn't get to the question.

If you want to MT
1) Have near perfect attendence
4) Outskill the current MT while in lesser gear
5) Make friends and influence people to convince the guild leader/officers to let you do it
2) Have some seniority in the guild
3) Outgear the current MT




You had the order mixed up.