PDA

View Full Version : Arms PvE DPS Questions



username17
07-27-2008, 08:29 PM
Hello,
I recently was given the opportunity to go Arms Slam/BF Spec.
I'm typically a tank, so I jumped at the opportunity to do something different.

My current stats are 1750ap, 34%crit, 6% hit.
I'm using Trollbane and axe spec, to fill in for my lack of Crit.

Is sword spec key to the Arms PvE?
I'm planning on staying Axe spec until I have 33% crit without it.
I'm just curious if I need to work on getting a sword too.

I like axe spec because it allows me to work in getting my other stats up first.
My immediate concern is getting up to 9% hit.
My only expertise is from shard.


I'd also like to confirm that I'm doing my rotations right.
Auto Attack > Slam > MS
Auto Attack > Slam > WW

Once I slam I still have half a second before I can MS or WW.
Based on that, should I have 2 points in Slam or 1?

I think the point of slam is to get 3 attacks in 1 Second.
I can see sword spec and windfury would help too.

Any help is appreciated.

Ukyo
07-27-2008, 08:51 PM
Yes, the main thing about this spec is being Sword spec, axe isn't bad but it's not as good as it is with a Sword. You can stick with Axe for now until you get better stats, but you should also work in getting a nice sword you can break stuff apart with. Your bests choices are Jin'rohk, The Great Apocalypse or Cataclysm's Edge. If your guild isn't on that content yet, you can pick up Merciless Gladiator's Greatsword by doing some bg's.

Your rotation is basically right, in case you have too much rage, you should start replacing auto attacks with Heroic Strike.

Hope it helps :D

username17
07-28-2008, 05:54 AM
I also have a question about gearing up.

I was told that S2 isn't that bad of a set for Arms warriors even in PvE.
Should I work on getting S2 or some other gear?

All of the plate DPS from Smith Hauthaa has haste on it.
I was told that it can mess up my timing so it's best not to focus on it.

But, the DPS plate from G'eras is nice.
It has hit, crit, and armor Pen.

Should I work on getting the older DPS gear or just go for S2?

I have T4 pants now, but I don't see myself getting any more of it or any T5.
The competition is pretty rought for that stuff.

I just bought S2 shoulders last night before I logged, that's why they're not gemmed/enchanted.
I'll probably spend my badges tonight on Eternium Rage-shackles - Item - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=33513).

Also, hit.. the warrior I spoke with last night said he only has 5% hit and it's not an issue. He also has a ton of AP, Armor Pen, Crit, and is sword spec.
Do I need to work on 9% hit ASAP or can I hover around 5% and work on getting my Atk power up higher?

Nickolaas
07-28-2008, 06:07 AM
This is the rotation you'll want to use:
AA -> Slam -> Mortal Strike -> AA -> Slam -> Whirlwind -> AA -> Slam -> Mortal Strike -> AA -> Slam -> (open) -> repeat

In the open slot you can use stuff like demo shout and battleshout.

The Dps increase you get from hit before the cap is way higher than any equal AP upgrade.
Also expertise is highly recommended untill you get 6,25% to eliminate the dodges.

After you get the cap on those 2 stats it's pretty simple
str>crit>armor penetration>stam

You always want to prefer str over raw AP since str scales with Blessing of Kings.

And yes, stay away from haste, it screws up your rotation.
If you get a heroism stick to your instant abilities like MS and WW and dump the extra rage with heroic strike.

ebs2002
07-28-2008, 08:18 AM
Get your hit to 9% first and foremost. Then completely ignore hit (more than 9% doesn't help at all).

And haste is alright so long as your swing time with flurry is over 2.5sec

Kazeyonoma
07-28-2008, 09:08 AM
Oh and to address one of your first questions, yes you definitely get 2 points in improved slam. Casting Slam restarts your swing timer (when it finishes cast and the hit fires). That's why it's essential for you to fire it right after an auto attack. This effectively only resets .5 seconds of your swing timer. If you are only taking 1 point into imp slam you're casting a 1 second slam, that means your rotation looks something like this:
0 seconds: white swing / cast slam
1 second : finish slam / reset swing timer
2.5 seconds: mortal strike
4.6 seconds: white swing / cast slam

You see what happened? Your rotation now takes 4.6 seconds instead of 4.1

Tatt
07-28-2008, 03:11 PM
If you have not bought them do NOT buy the eternium rage shackles...the problem with a lot of that badge gear was it completely ignored one stat, the bracers, shoulders, and legs are a good example. The pvp bracers are better than they are, even without the ArP. Find a spreadsheet or maxdps.com to see what gear will do more for you, and remember not to sacrifice too much of any one stat for another, balance is your friend.

username17
07-28-2008, 05:05 PM
I got the shackles, put some hit gems in some other gear and started using my brooch of deftness.

I'm at 1700atk power, 34% crit, 8% hit, 4% Expertise, and 400 armor pen.

I'm saving badges for the DPS Plate from G'eras.
I want the shoulders, gloves, belt, and legs.
They have a ton of hit and slots on them.

username17
07-28-2008, 07:06 PM
What stat did the badge gear ignore?

I have 33% crit as it is, what else am I missing?
The legs, chest, and waist have hit and once I get them I'll have enough hit to not have to gem for it.

Is it Agility? That's the only thing the badge stuff doesn't have.
What do I need Agi for when my crit is fine?

Or is it that the More Agi I have, I can focus more on AP?
I have like 1 gem for crit, everything else is Str/Ap or Hit.

Brucimus
07-28-2008, 08:53 PM
The Badge Gear is bleh IMO

Breastplate of Ire no crit no arp no hit.
Girdle of Seething Rage no crit no arp no hit
Legplates of Unending Fury this is ok but Season 3/4 is nicer
Amani Mask of Death again is ok...but Engineering hat or S3 is better
Eternium Rage-shackles better options from Lurker or Rage Winterchill or pvp


i'm not goin to list anymore because my dinner just got done cooking ...but you are better of using your hard earned badges on the Angelista's Ring and Dory's Cape

Nickolaas
07-29-2008, 03:56 AM
The bracers are not too bad, the rest is just shit for PVE arms.
Haste is bad and the fact that the helm doesnt have a metasocket makes blue helmes with a meta better.

username17
07-29-2008, 05:19 AM
I agree that the new (from 2.4) badge gear is crap.
But I'm talking about the old stuff from G'eras.

Furious Deathgrips
Pauldrons of Gruesome Fate
Bloodthirster's Wargreaves

Tons of AP, Stam, and Hit.
I can gem for Strength, or crit if needed.

Once I get all 3, I'll have 560Arp and enough hit to regem for Str.

Edit: About my badges.
I already have Angelista's and I crafted a Cloak of Darkness instead of Dorys.
This way I can spend my badges for on upgrading my armor.

And I do have the Engineer goggles.

Tatt
07-29-2008, 07:06 AM
DPS goggles are way better than Amani Death mask. The three items you listed have 0 crit on them. As a dps warrior you want to gem for strength, not crit. 34% crit is fine, but you have 1700 AP. Someone tell me I am wrong, but that is quite low for PVE arms. I am fury and have about 2100 AP and 30% crit, and I think our arms guy has 1950 AP himself. Rage Winterchill shoulders or Doom Lord Kazzak shoulders are much better than the badge ones. And Dory's is one of the few badge pieces with ArP that is worth spending badges on. Killed me because I have only had my vengenace wrap for a short time, but I still got it.

username17
07-29-2008, 11:04 AM
True, they don't have crit on them, but I haven't really gemmed for crit.

Although I will lose 97 crit rating if I get those badge gloves, pants, and shoulders.

Tatt
07-29-2008, 12:18 PM
97 crit = over 4% crit.....ouch

Turmentus
07-29-2008, 12:28 PM
That's my problem with a lot of the badge gear, or at least having a lot of it - crit rating ends up being really sub-par. I've got a mix of PVP and craftables (hit capped, 1850 AP, 33% crit in zerker) which suits where my guild is at the moment. I figure my Badges are best spent first on the axe, and then filling in any gaps that might be left.

ebs2002
07-29-2008, 02:53 PM
I ignored any badge item that didn't have 3 DPS stats on it. The only one of those three you linked above that I'd even consider are the shoulders (str, hit, arp).

Although, if you're going axe-spec and you pick up the badge axe, you may be able to sacrifice a fair amount of crit (41% raid buffed is probably not as good as 36% raid buffed with more arp)

Tatt
07-29-2008, 02:59 PM
But would you consider those badge shoulders if you had access to DLK ones or Rage ones?

ebs2002
07-29-2008, 03:03 PM
No, I wouldn't, unless I was explicitely making an armor pen set :)

Tatt
07-29-2008, 03:11 PM
The only penetration gear I am trying to get is the badge ring and the ZA lookalike, badge cloak, S3 legs or divine retribution legs, the ZA bow, and any T6 I can steal. Those are the only warrior dps pieces that I have seen that I think are still itemized correctly.

ebs2002
07-30-2008, 07:57 AM
S3 hat, S3 legs, S3 chest are all itemized very well for PvE (shoulders and gloves are nice, but don't have armor pen and so I'm leaving them out).

Plus the other stuff Tatt listed.

Daimon
07-30-2008, 08:27 AM
I was Fury from 1 to 68 for leveling purposes and took Prot since, never even looked much at Arms, so talking about effective dps in PVE. Is Arms really viable? I mean top meter or among the top or more like "pheww thx god I passed the tank"
I've always looked at Arm warriors as PVP whores.

ebs2002
07-30-2008, 09:05 AM
There are two different specs for arms. One is the PVP spec, which has no imp slam, points in tactical mastery, and no blood frenzy.

The other is the PvE spec, which has Imp Slam 2/2, Blood Frenzy (but not second wind), and other talents that increase damage but ignores utility (no imp hamstring, no imp intercept, etc).

PvE arms are more of a utility DPS class, who use Blood Frenzy to increase all melee dps (including your tank's threat) by 4%. If you're good at using swing timers like Quartz, and you have a good group makeup (windfury totem), you can put out decent DPS (usually about 200 less than an equally geared fury warrior), but the extra 4% damage your rogues and enh shammies are doing will more than make up for the loss in DPS.

So no, you won't top the damage meters as arms unless you're better geared than the rest of the guild, but you will increase the raid's DPS more than a fury warrior would, as well as increasing the threat for your tanks (which will help your ranged DPS as well)

Kazeyonoma
07-30-2008, 09:17 AM
4% also accounts for whatever non-magical shots your hunters fire!

Tatt
07-30-2008, 12:31 PM
Lol Ebs you made me remember the other piece I wanted.....hardened khorium battleplate! Now I just need to find someone to tell me the plans cheap! :)

Crimsonstorm
07-31-2008, 11:14 AM
Lol Ebs you made me remember the other piece I wanted.....hardened khorium battleplate! Now I just need to find someone to tell me the plans cheap! :)

Lol. Cheap.

Luckily one dropped for me in one of our sunwell raids.
I saw someone selling one on my server for only 10k.

Tatt
08-02-2008, 08:48 AM
A mere 10k....go go chinese gold farmers...grab some dps goggles while I am at it :p

Sanelora
08-02-2008, 09:07 AM
4% also accounts for whatever non-magical shots your hunters fire!

which is everything bar arcane shot and stings :P

Kazeyonoma
08-03-2008, 01:33 AM
exactly =P