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View Full Version : Raid Leading - A Thankless "Job"



Muggs
07-24-2008, 07:38 AM
I'm been blood boiling over this the past few days as I kicked up the raiding again in my guild, and I've come to the conclusion that raid leading, at least for me, is a 100% thankless "Job" and I use job loosely because all I'm "paid" in are whispers, unhappy people, and piss poor attendance.

Things I've had to deal with this week, lemme see, first is a new looting system. All t6 raiders my team is friends with uses a Loot Council, a lot of people, including the current officer core are down with this, it allows us to award people based on effort, stepping up, showing up, and generally good attitudes, right? Right. However, this obviously isn't the case, take this example, this person is the ONLY class with the ONLY spec in the raid, and I get massive angry tells about how they think it's unfair that we want to switch to LC without talking to everyone about it first? Fair enough on the first part, but why moan and complain when we haven't had a chance to talk about it as a guild (meeting is Monday) nor has it been implemented, not to mention, after a few minutes the truth came out - "I don't want to get burned on gear" a.k.a. I'm greedy and I only raid for loot and if I can't get it I'm not raiding. So, her and her husband are now refusing to raid "Until things are figured out." Did I mention we sharded stuff in MH cause no one wanted it? or that the hunters where fighting over who was going to take the bracers cause they all had better and kept saying "no you take it." Yeah, really got serious looting issues here, people are never going to get gear.

Let me see, what else have I had to deal with. We started using Group Calender, for those of you that haven't used it, the person that posts the event had to approve members to the raid and all that. One of my officers didn't know that, so we got QQing cause people weren't approved, obviously, no slack for the first week I see. Ok, secondly in this topic, I'm a RL, I wasn't going to be there, I take this down and suddenly I get pms about how "I want to see this guild progress" and how "We need to raid more times blah blah." Ok, you set up the damn runs, I have g/f aggro and it's not fun, and frankly, I'm the kind of person where Real Life Relationships > WoW. Deal People.

What else, oh, we only worked in TK one night (3/4) and at the start I was getting crap for "It's unmotivating to only raid in there one night" well, you know, you people are a bunch if chickens and don't want to play with Kael like I do, so you better learn to deal with one night farming runs.

Oh, and the thing that gets me to most this week? We start an hour late cause people weren't there, ok, it happens. Well, obviously it's my fault according to some people even though it was *their* friends that were late and yeah, you know, I made my alternates I had for the night walk away from their computer and AFK out (those people are getting crap from me tonight) when we were trying to form a raid group, grr... And to top it off, I had to pug a warlock for hyjal and one of my younger warriors got peeved cause we pugged this guy, you know, L2 UNDERSTAND TRASH KID, you can't do 4k dps AoEing down mobs as a fury warrior, not to mention, my ranged dps was already sketchy - infernals on Ane were barely getting down on time, and melee can't really help out there.

So, this turned into a Muggs-Rant, but the problem I'm bringing up here, is that everything a raid leader does is damage control, and listening to complaints. I take time out of my schedule to lead this, talk tactics, look at WWS reports when I really should be working on papers, reading journals, etc... that scientist are "suppose" to do, but I don't, I lose sleep and get ulcers trying to progress in wow. Frankly, I'm just fed up with the situation, it seems like you can never win at this, and you know, you can't go around booting people nonchalantly that have bad attitudes because everyone has friends and connections they would side with no matter what (like me and the GM, RL friend from undergrad years, I'd never cross her or turn my back on her).

So yeah, this "job" is thankless and the "pay" frankly sucks, I haven't figured out what I'll do, if I left I'd have massive withdrawal and the raid team would prolly collapse, I've been one of the few people trying to hold it together, but the bad attitudes and people's whining just make it hard to figure out a reason why I'm still hanging on.

Sprot
07-24-2008, 07:55 AM
So let it collapse. I know how you feel, and if you're the only thing that keeps the raid together, that's far too much stress on one person's shoulders. Who knows? Maybe a leader will emerge, maybe it'll go down in flames & bitching, but is all that really worth your free time? I've categorically avoided anything 25man after helping out in a 40man years ago - too many people, you'll always have jerks & idiots aboard. I stick to 10mans now, never been happier. :)

mero12513
07-24-2008, 08:15 AM
Hurray for 10-mans. I'll be putting 15 people in a close-knit guild for Wrath and never looking back. I'm the lowest geared, least experienced, and most recent guild recruit among our tanking core. Somehow, though, I'm the only person in my guild to have led a raid that killed a 25-man boss. And I'm not even an officer. I feel your pain.

Muggs
07-24-2008, 08:37 AM
I agree mero, I'm so looking forward to the 10 man progression in Wrath. I love doing instances, I love being laid back and having a good time with my RL friends, and I love progressing and seeing new things. The strain of RLing a 25 is a lot with my current responsibilities as a graduate student (working on my masters) and part of me is about to say "I'm out" for a week because my defense is looming on the horizon next Friday.

phaze
07-24-2008, 09:54 AM
So let it collapse. I know how you feel, and if you're the only thing that keeps the raid together, that's far too much stress on one person's shoulders.
/nod

If your guild is at each other's throats over loot rules, attendance, raid schedules, and just general complaining, then perhaps it's time to let it die, or time to move on.

bosephus
07-24-2008, 09:58 AM
Sounds like you've had all the problems I've ever had compressed into one week. Ouch.

Here's my advice: identify the people that you do have that are chronic complainers and start ignoring them. Build a thick skin. Some of the most effective guild leaders I've seen are those that don't respond to complaints. Tell that fury warrior why you replaced him with that 'lock, for AOE damage, and that was the best decision in your mind for the good of the raid. If he continues to complain, don't say a word back to him.

The people who know you're doing a good job aren't going to listen to them anyway, and eventually they'll drift off. Replace them with people who want to play, are willing to cooperate, problem solve, and aren't going to complain about everything.

Now if you find yourself ignoring everybody, then you might be doing something wrong yourself.

Domichi
07-24-2008, 10:07 AM
The people who know you're doing a good job aren't going to listen to them anyway, and eventually they'll drift off. Replace them with people who want to play, are willing to cooperate, problem solve, and aren't going to complain about everything.

Excellent advice!

Also, take some time off and find someone who you feel is capable of leading the raids, give them a little coaching, and have them step up as RL in your brief absence. You may find that you return to a better situation and can start to split up the RL duties between the two of you.

Silthias
07-24-2008, 10:16 AM
Copy and paste that on your guild forum, let them read it and see what they say. See if they realise that they are runnign the risk of not gettign a RL for the raids if they carry on.

worked for me to put a big rant saying that I was fed up and was gonna stop it if it didnt change.

Regards,

Silthias

Turmoil
07-25-2008, 03:34 AM
All I can say is, I empathise. I haven't had quite that degree of 'everything at once', but consistent lack of attendance, people turning up late, low signups, etc has been wearing me down. This combined with an officer gquit because (wait for it) they didn't agree with my choice of loot distribution... well it hasn't exactly been a trip to a spa.


As long as you do not complain on a regular basis (and it doesn't sound like you do), then my advice is do as Silthias says - post a rant. If the 'strong, silent' raid leader to their eyes blows their top, it has a great deal of impact. If you're usually tetchy and 'emo', people will roll their eyes at you and it won't really help. If the latter is the case, take some actual action... go on strike for a week. Any people who get pissed off and leave due to ONE WEEK's lack of raiding will probably be the people you want to get rid of anyway.

Of course then you may find yourself rolling back to the eternal pain in the tail that is waiting on recruitment. But such are the way of things..


Good luck getting things sorted. I'm actually surprised how much shit other people and myself put up with in this game; I know if it were a real-life situation I wouldn't sit here and take it like I do with WoW. Maybe that just makes me a pansy. I dunno.

Fubar
07-25-2008, 07:49 AM
Don't forget to think of the external pressures that are happening at this time, Summer for most U.S. guilds suck. People are moving, vacationing, and doing other RL stuff. Coupled with the imminent launch of WotLK, people know all the purps they get now are going to be replaced by a quest reward in Northrend, which is a huge demotivator.

Also, leadership in guilds is vastly different from real life because people are volunteers. It's frustrating to try to get people aligned and ready to go in a "game" setting. You are not alone, even 10 man's will have this problem, just not at the same magnitude.

Not sure I have an answer for you, my guild stopped raiding and mostly dissolved a few weeks ago due to attendance and lack of wanting to raid. A suggestion though, your loot method doesn't promote attendance, good raiding habits or mechanization of a guild and it's policies. Listen to Cider's guild relations/mgmt podcast, mechanization is the only way to fairly deal with loot, cut out superflous drama, and lower GM/RL blood pressures.

Fubs

Krashtork
07-25-2008, 10:47 AM
I've been a RL for 25s and honestly from what you've described it sounds like you need to start recruiting to replace people.

If you leave, you will be very unhappy with not raiding. If your guild is as far as it sounds in the game you should have no issues picking up new recruits.

Don't like someone's attitude? Recruit to fill their spot.

Don't give up on a guild without first shedding off some dead skin.