View Full Version : Archimonde versus Black Temple for progression

07-23-2008, 01:09 PM
we very suprisingly one-shot azgalor last night on our 3rd pull ever and ended up with about 2 hours of dying miserably in the fire on archimonde. the week before we downed gorefiend. at this point the raid seems somewhat split between going to bloodboil and more of BT or working on archimonde more. is it more prudent to keep pushing BT and keep the MH run to a one-night afair or should we keep pushing into archimonde and try and get him down and possibly get some 2pc set bonuses?

my gut feeling is to keep MH to a one night run and spend our remaining two nights in BT to continue trying to get illidan down by expansion arrival. my officers seem pretty split on those two options and i am looking for that voice of experience for some guidance.


07-23-2008, 03:17 PM
Depends, if your raid is capable of doing archi, meaning it just requires practice, go for it. Else, progress in BT and save archi for days when you don't have setups.

07-23-2008, 03:45 PM
Personally, i think that bloodboil is an awesome and a terrible fight in some respects. Some guilds with 3 good tanks will breeze through it. (hell even guilds with 1 outstanding tank and 2 bad tanks can do it and have done it)

With all that in mind, most of the people I have talked to on this subject suggest killing RoS and then going back and killing archi, leaving bloodboil, mother, IC and the big man illidan 'til later.

but in the end you can do whatever you want! "its your guild" so to speak. i have even known of guilds who lacked the coordination for archi who actually cleared BT first. so do what suits you

07-23-2008, 03:58 PM
Go to Archimonde and do attempts with 0 DPS and just last to the enrage timer. No I am not kidding. This is BY FAR the most effective way to learn Archi.

07-23-2008, 06:18 PM
We had our special way to deal with archi, since our raid members couldnt menage to survive, we completely skipped him, and killed Illidan first.

After the training on Council, Archi went down on the 3rd or 4th pull since 2 months, right after our 2nd Illidan kill.

Council tends to teach people to not stand in the shit, and Flames of Azzinoth give some idea of FIRE=BAD

07-24-2008, 03:05 AM
If you can BB, ROS will be very doable. It took us a few sessions in the last two weeks to go from BB to the council, and I'm still one of the weaker geared tanks.

Both BB and ROS rely on a decent rotation, and when they go down Sharaz seems very straightforward if people have the SR. gear. Not quite a Akama, is that it kind of thing but very doable. Skipping back to ROS, if you can get a decent rotation going on the interrupts, even on initial attempts it will seem very doable. Pretty good for confidence and maybe gearing a few people. We're in a similar position, I didn't enjoy seeing Archi for the first time, but he is outstanding and I see him getting smacked soon. Good luck on your attempts.

07-24-2008, 06:34 AM
We had our special way to deal with archi, since our raid members couldnt menage to survive, we completely skipped him, and killed Illidan first.

After the training on Council, Archi went down on the 3rd or 4th pull since 2 months, right after our 2nd Illidan kill.

Council tends to teach people to not stand in the shit, and Flames of Azzinoth give some idea of FIRE=BAD

you would think that by the time you get that far people wouldnt stand in fire, but we still have people die every week to volcanoes...

07-24-2008, 06:46 AM
We killed archi after council, I think council is a pretty good indication you can kill archimonde since the fights are similar (move out of the aoe shit). Like you we spent a couple of weeks on archi while getting everyone their SR gear and it didn't work out too well. Just wipe after wipe after wipe.

We aborted archi and worked on mother and council. Immediately after we downed council everyone wanted to do archimonde (gee I wonder why) and true enough we killed him on next reset.

07-24-2008, 11:58 AM
We were in the exact same situation. We only raid 3 days a week and were 4/5 and 4/9. We decided to bite the bullet and learn archi. We are around try #60 and we have definitely improved a ton and he should go down tonight. Best try is 23%. We are routinely getting below 50% and had 1 try where we got to 50% with no deaths, 1 person cratered and the raid wiped in under 20 seconds.

We did a bunch of tries where we forced everyone to stand on top of the decurser with the icon over them so only the decurser had to learn how to run away from fires.

My feeling is that while you could skip archi and work more on BT, you will reduce your deaths in BT once people understand personal responsibility which Archi teaches very well. Either way you are going to have a ton of wipes, its just which boss you are wiping on.

The most important post we have from our forums:
/script SetCVar ("cameraDistancemax" ,50)

Run that in WoW (( you can copy/paste it in to the chat bar w/ ease )).

It'll let you zoom your camera way the freak back so you can see where things like doomfires are more easily.

To copy and paste it, select the text, hit ctrl+c. To paste it, ctrl+v when the cursor is blinking.

This movie is very close to our strat:
YouTube - Giant Censored Robots vs Archimonde (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qj6k1QZd9Wk)
The bit at the end about 10% is not wrong. You can just /dance if we get to there.

07-28-2008, 03:24 PM
Quick PS, we killed him and don't regret doing archi before BT at all.

07-29-2008, 01:08 AM
Like many others, we worked through BT as we were working through MH. We spent time finishing off KT and Vashj, though, even after 2.4. We wanted to "progress" as initially expected. We, within our first week of raiding, had downed 3/5 in MH and 3/9 in BT. I know, a lot of guilds do that, but we figured dedication to both instances was a good way to progress. We quickly got through Azgalore, and continued each week to clear 4/5 MH while also progressing as we could through BT. We only raid 3 nights per week, so we were afraid of time issues and how it might limit our BT progression.

We were surprised, though. We consistently cleared 4/5 MH in 2 hours, and we, within just 6 weeks of BT work, were able to down the Council. Once we downed the council, we decided to focus on Archi. He took us 1 night of full attempts, but with what our raid learned from the Council, convincing people to move out of the fire wasn't too rough.

We're now 5/5 MH, and we still clear MH weekly. We're working on Illidan, but we've only just started on him. We'll likely be giving up MH to down Illidan soon.

Our method worked well for us. Basically, if your raid can learn to stay out of the council aoe, they can learn to run from doomfire. Plus, with 7 bosses in BT to clear and add to your raids gear each week, the extra bufffs your raid will get will only make the Archi fight that much easier.


07-29-2008, 05:16 AM
My guild personally decided to clear through BT before archi. We had consistantly killed 4/5MH for a very long time as we worked our way through BT. The biggest reason we didnt work archi was because we didnt have the consistent attendance of decursers around. This caused us to push all the way to mother before we even thought of archi again and when mother died on the first night of attempting we didnt need to bother with farming hearts of darkness (which is where we had planned on focusing to archi initially). The only reason that i think we actually went back to archi when we did was because our second prot warrior was on vacation for 2 weeks so council wasnt really going well.

07-29-2008, 07:33 AM
I think if you have a good crew that doesn't mind wiping you don't even have to set foot in BT until you kill Archimonde. From a logistical standpoint, if you can down Archimonde you're looking at some of the best loots in the game plus 3x T6 tokens every week. If you can get 2pc T6 before setting foot in BT you're looking at breezing through progression-wise. That said, most clear Gorefiend.

07-30-2008, 08:06 AM
i spose i'll chip in.

we cleared 4/5, 4/9 than got archi, maybe 30 attempts over about 3 resets.

than cleared from gurtogg to illidan the next reset.

best attempt on illdan so far is like 32%, p2 is gay.

08-11-2008, 01:52 AM
My guild decided to focus on Black Temple and wait for going further than 2/5 MH 'till after we've farmed the hearts for it..

Now we've just recently downed Bloodboil and don't regret it.

08-22-2008, 04:11 PM
This is exactly where my guild is atm. We clear the first 4 bosses in Hyjal in just under 2 hours or right at 2 hours. We to only raid 3 nights aweek and I like to be as efficient as possible with out time for max progression. We are 4 deep in BT atm also.

As the raid leader/GM I opted to learn Archi before going to BB so we can make our tuesday night run 5/5 Hyjal and perhaps the first two bosses in BT. Once we learn a boss we never have problems going back in the next week and usually repeating the kill with less mistakes on the initial kill.

We have been running into difficulties with Archi though. People are starting to get the hang of the fire dodging and what not. We are fine tuning our heal rotation and fear breaks for healers. Some have said here the the council is good practice for Archi so does that work in reverse that if we are wiping and learning archi we will be one up on the council?

I do question sometimes my decision to not progress in BT anymore until he is down. But I think we can get him people just have to work on individual play skills. We have pretty much tried every strat under the sun and are now just focusing on the fan out and react strat. Hopefully in the next few raids I can post that we downed him.