View Full Version : Could I have done it better?
07-23-2008, 12:17 AM
Hi, I am glad to have found this website, just as I use maintankadin for my prot pally main.
Anyway, I have a level 70 warrior which I levelled to tank a loong time ago before ditching her for my pally when paladin tanking became much more viable, and may I add, simply plain ezy-mode (as far as heroics and 10 mans are concerned), I feel like such a dirty cheater each time I tank on my pally!
Anyway, I have dusted off my warrior to tank again because I feel like a change, and it's been quite a challenge.
I remember I didn't use to have any significant sifficulty tanking regular 5 mans last time, but since I came back, I have only been doing some heroics and they didn't go as smoothly as I'd have liked.
Before I begin, my armory The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Frostmourne&n=Tenseiga)
I will use my H SP run as an example.
The crabs... My group was composed of a near full T4 Resto druid, and a hunter, lock and moonkin, all dps'ers at least T4 + badge equivalent.
So we are at the 4 crab pulls, and I use only the hunter's trap as CC. I pull with my gun, 3 come charging, 4th heads for trap.
3 in range, I Thunderclap, shield slam the skull and try to apply devastates all round.
Within 2 seconds, the 2 non-skulls head straight for healer, I try to get them back, skull heads straight for top dps'er.
I found much less difficulty with the static pulls, mainly because heroic mode casters generally need little, if any tanking at all when the dps is competent.
So my big issue was the crabs, and other such similar situations that may arise.
Is it my gear? I am sure it does play a part since I am not mitigating and avoiding as much melee damage as someone more epicced out, but could I have done it better despite my gear?
I have the mouseover sunder macro, but I find that I'm really not very good with it. Can I use the plain old tab-devastate and be equally effective?
Why can't warrior tanking be as idiot-proof as pally tanking? :o I just toss my shield, walk right into them, drop a consecrate and go make a hot drink, and come back for the next pull!
This is my pally, but he's sort of dressed down for heroics since H Mech was the last thing I did before logging.
The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Frostmourne&n=Teck)
Thanks to all in advance.
07-23-2008, 07:21 AM
Man, i just can't wait for the awnsers of your question. My main char is a warrior and i'm quite sad about she, since my boyfriend plays a pally and do not get so stressed as i do at the raids, once that my rotation gets about 5 skills, (Devastate, revenge, shield slam, shield block and thunderclap) need to get comm shout 2 to 2 mins, demoralizing, look up the position, look up the threat (i am having troubles about threat generation... i dont know if my avoidance are too high that i can't rage-generate) and finally, my health. :confused:
I did a macro, but that macro just got my threat generation worse, so i quit using that.:rolleyes:
My boyfriend just use about 3 skills, generate threat as a crazy one, and he has a worse gear, and start tanking about this week, and i am tanking since the last year... about to 6 months.... :(
If there are any1 that could say some words to cheer me up with my char, please say... Each raid (last night we did the loot reaver) makes me more sad with the poor Toscca. :( Is there any place that a warrior makes real difference like pallys, locks, mages or hunters? Im desperate.... :eek:
07-23-2008, 07:36 AM
To the OP, I think your main problem was a combination of resto druid and lack of CC. Those pulls of four (or even three) really hurt, which probably means the druid starts healing quickly and therefore pulls agro. If the group is one you are likely to run with often, ask for cyclone/fear to be used until the first crab is dead. You could try 3/3 in imp revenge for the stun component (imp taunt and imp shield bash are obvious places to get the points from).
The SSO rep shield would be a big upgrade, you could also consider the CE neck (think it might be better, not sure). You can't really compare tanking with a character who's pretty much epicced out to one who's just starting heroics :)
To Tosca - I had a brief look at your gear, and it looks good, only thing I would suggest is swopping in some more agro pieces for void reaver, use hit food and agi elixirs. If you can post a wws from a fight that you were having problems in or give more details and I'm sure someone here will be able to help - they're a nice bunch and don't bite :)
07-23-2008, 09:55 AM
Multitanking really is a challenge, one that I remember I hated until I got the hang of it. Take heart and force yourself to keep trying :)
On those kinds of pulls, I generally don't use TC (though it can help your survivability to put it up after initial aggro gain is done). With 3 targets... Pull, get zerker rage up, back to def stance & bloodrage before they get to you, shield slam target #1, deva #2, revenge on #3 and back to 1. By not using TC, you do save yourself a gcd, which can be helpful. Be fast on changing targets after specials, as a white hit is better than no hit. A liberal spreading of concussion blow and taunt can really help in that situation too - stun #1, taunt #2, deva on #3 then back to #1 with a shield slam in the face before a quick revenge on #2 should grab its attention if it was thinking of going elsewhere. Spread your rotation out and don't always go for the first kill target first - if you have a dps that can take a few hits or otherwise survive, and will start on the skull quickly, then you know it's not going to go for the healer and you can taunt it back once you have a firm hold on the other two.
Was the druid HoTting you before you pulled? If so, tell him not to. That's the number 1 cause of healers getting aggro - healing too soon (and I should know, I could have earned a medal for number of deaths on trash on my priest in raids ><; ).
Good luck sorting that multi-tanking out :) but until you improve your gear a little more, I reccommend more than one CC (I remember a SH heroic run when I was in full blues with only a lock to CC, yikes, was glad I was friends with the healer).
EDIT: Forgot to mention, as far as tab-deva goes, I have to admit I personally hate it. I tend to just keep the mob health bars up (the ones you get from pressing V, dunno how to describe them properly) and I click through them, hitting deva on each one. I find it a lot easier than tab-targeting (which just ends up pissing me off, because no matter how I position my camera I always end up tabbing to something random/out of range).
07-23-2008, 12:57 PM
If you are getting overwhelmed, try this.
On the pull, Stun the first kill target with Concussion Blow. Now quickly put Shield Slam/Revenge on the other 2 mobs, then when the Stun breaks, Taunt it, and apply quick threat to it.
Remember you have Stuns and Taunts. They can be life savers.
07-31-2008, 07:38 AM
Clavarnway nailed it: stun lock the kill target, trap 1, and now you're tanking 2 mobs. Easy.
Depending on your gear, try getting ahead of your group. Charge at the group and TC, then have the hunter pull off you. If you can take the hits, make your group chase you. You don't want to force your healer to drop bombs to top you off, but any lead time you can get will help.
09-08-2008, 12:10 PM
Heroic Pulls can be tricky, and as a general rule, its better to have CC. Not because you couldn't take the damage, or because healing couldn't keep up with it, but more because of the reasons you already cited.
Druid HoTs tend to act a lot like a constant stream of threat. Low, but constant. It's hard to maintain a constant threat stream on a bunch of targets without using thunderclap.
I'm going to offer what I would do in the situation and leave it up to you as to what you would take from it to be helpful or not.
I would mark Skull, X, and Triangle as 1st, 2nd and 3rd kill. Blue Square, I would mark for trap.
I would shoot X probably, put a quick Dev on it, as it neared me first, then tclapped to get aggro on them all, quickly followed with a cleave.
Switch to Skull, taunt, tlap, cleave on X hopefully.
The combination of tclap + cleave usually is enough to hold aggro long enough to switch quickly and add a revenge or shield slam.
I try to use revenges on additional mobs as it has a very low rage cost, but high threat. Ill taunt skull if it starts to get loose. Also, as someone else suggested, if you find yourself without a taunt up, feel free to use concussion blow. Sometimes Ill even switch stances and intercept if a mobs gets too far away. The stun from that buys you plenty of time to get a taunt and one attack off on it. Works like a charm for me.
All that being said, multi target tanking on a warrior while healing needs to be spammed and damage needs to be dealt can be quite the challenge. Fortunately, Wrath changes seems to be strengthening our potential in that area quite a bit, but that doesn't help us much now :)
Good luck man. It's just practice and getting a feel for your group, how theyll act, what kind of attacks a healing style they use. It's just a matter of learning not only your own class, but others. Its part of the tanks responsibility to me :)
Imo, right now you should take out of imp. shield bash, and put 5/5 1h Weapon spec, and 5/5 Cruelty. Or if you prefer, take 1 point out of it, =P @Toscca ; You should max out Anticipation, so you can swap in some more threat gear rather than all stuff with high defense if you get a chance. And if i remember right, it would be more useful to put the points you have in imp revenge atm into imp Heroic Strike. I also support taking out imp shield bash and putting it in imp shield wall, for the raid-saving goodness. Just my opinions =P
09-10-2008, 05:11 PM
K first is having the gear to survive big pulls, so for a while, rely on cc. I'm gearing a pally for heroics now, and people for some reason think all paladins can handle 5-8 pulls without cc, which they can't in mostly blues. Bring 2-3 cc every run, insist on it even if you don't use them every pull, especially if you bring low/medium dps. if no one is above 600 dps, that's a low dps run and the tank will be eating a lot of hits. Getting pulls down to 2-3 mobs really help.
Tanking big groups, I usually Zerker Rage>Battle stance>Charge skull>SS>TC>Def stance>Devistate>Cleave>Bloodrage then it's all just a ton of SS, devistates, revenge, Cleaves, TC, demo shouts, so on and so forth. If you're a tauren, Warstomp about 10-15 seconds into the pull can really help, it's 3 seconds only, but every second counts. That's about the point when you're full on rage, Big heals start coming in, and dps really opens up. tab around spamming devistate and rev, TC when it's up, followed by cleaves when you have the rage. SS and a little extra devistate, rev on current kill targets, and if DPS pulls skull, let them have it. 9/10 they'll kill it before it does any damage on them.