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View Full Version : Between Casual and Raid ?!



Buhly
07-15-2008, 04:34 PM
Now,

I'm quiet fresh in posting here so i like to explain my situation a little bit.
At the current state i'm playing a Warlock in a raiding-guild on an good populated german PvE Realm. We've cleared BT couple of weeks and didn't had the opportunity do get our firstkill in SWP since tryin' a few weeks now.
Finally i stopped raiding 2 weeks ago and complained with some of my friends of building a new guild. I stopped raiding because in my oppinion its just like being a number and if you show up to the raid its ok and if you make a break or don't show u are the badguy and besides raiding 25's nothing cares.

Now there are several questions on which a little advice could be nice.

The first thing is if there is a possibility of creating a guild maybe raiding 3 days a week and still getting to see enough content?

I would like to create a guild were people are interested in playing with their guildmates and are willing to show a high level of assistance towards other mates. I don't wan't mercenaries hunting for purpelz or hardcoreraiders hunting for serverfirsts.

The right mix between progress/sucess and being together and having fun with your mates is what i search.

Is it possible or not to found a guild like that or is there only the two extreme sides of being casual or being a "pro" raider ?

Second thing is do i start the guild before the launch of wotlk or do i wait until the phenomenon of guilds collapsing with the rising an launch of the addon?

And another question is. With the invention of the 10-man/25-man raids in wotlk which do i focus on best with my guild after we survived the 5-man istances and leveling to 80?

Thanks for all answers!

I know my english is not the best but i like this forum and i hope excuse it.

Minya
07-15-2008, 06:26 PM
The first thing is if there is a possibility of creating a guild maybe raiding 3 days a week and still getting to see enough content?
This really depends on what is "enough" content for you and your mates.
In fact all instance were nerfed several times, so that almost everybody has the chance to see the whole content (except SWP. yet.).
You have to wait a bit longer to see all the content but it is possible.


Is it possible or not to found a guild like that or is there only the two extreme sides of being casual or being a "pro" raider ?
It is possible, for sure. To keep this kind of guild workin you have to secure that there are no big gaps between the guildmember's goals.


Second thing is do i start the guild before the launch of wotlk or do i wait until the phenomenon of guilds collapsing with the rising an launch of the addon?
If you wanna start your guild with people you already know a long time, it doesn't really count when to start it.
If you want to built your guild with fresh flesh, I would wait until the xpac launches.


And another question is. With the invention of the 10-man/25-man raids in wotlk which do i focus on best with my guild after we survived the 5-man istances and leveling to 80?
If you have enough people (and time to organize) for 25's, do 25-mans. If you don't have enough people, do the 10-mans.
There's no other way ;) You can't do the 25's without enough people..

I think that the 10mans will be noticeable easier than the 25's. So if you don't want to spend that much time to raiding and raid-organization, you should prefer the 10man's to secure to see the wohle content.

Deletha
07-16-2008, 08:21 AM
In agreement of what has been stated so far and wanted to emphasize the part about having your guild/raidmates in agreement as to goals.

My raid only actually raids two nights a week and this chafes some of the members badly. But, it was formed around the availability of a few core members and due to real lives of some the we aren't willing to give up, we do go a bit slower at times.

The bad thing to this is the unforgivingness of people who want to progress faster. Some have just recently delivered an ultimatum to me about changes they want made. Still dealing with this one ><

Find like-minded people as to progression and never stop recruiting. People's goals change and they will find a place that suits their needs. It's still a game and it needs to be enjoyable for those playing.

Mambak
07-16-2008, 01:42 PM
I'm Actually in a guild thats fairly casual, we raid 25 mans 3 times a week for 3 hours, We have also cleared everything up to gurtogg in Black temple.

But besides the 25 mans, any guild member can make a raid signup for any raid that we aren't pushing content in, mainly t5 and below.

So every week we'll have a kara/za/gruul/mag for those of us that enjoy raiding, and those that like to keep it more casual only have to show up to the 25 mans.

I think this balance can be perfect for any casual guild, and also gives the members that want to try raid leading a chance.

Andenthal
07-16-2008, 05:18 PM
I stopped raiding because in my oppinion its just like being a number and if you show up to the raid its ok and if you make a break or don't show u are the badguy and besides raiding 25's nothing cares.


I'm assuming this is the root of your problems? You feel that your guildies do not vaule you as a person, and only think of you as Ranged DPS #14. Something to that effect?

I have a feeling that is just the way it is with larger guilds. If you do end up starting your own guild and grow large enough to attempt 25 man instances, I think you will quickly see what I mean. The guild leader and other officers are not always able to communicate to their players on a personal level. Personality differences, play time schedules, and just overall WoW enthusiasm all come into play.

As the raid leader of my guild, I can name maybe 12 players that I honestly enjoy playing and conversing with. The others - as you put it - are simply there to fill the appropriate slots.

If you are looking to be in an "intimate" raiding guild, I think you will likely want to stick to 10 man instances. I think that is just human nature - the more people involved, the less personal it gets. You can not expect the RL or GM of a 25 man raiding guild to be best friends with all of their guildmates. Depending on the guild, that can mean between 25 and 40 players.

minrog
07-30-2008, 02:10 PM
Our guild has been doing 3 days of 25 man raiding and a couple other days with 10 mans or maybe an easy 25 man with pugs.

It's not too bad though we're only partially through BT and MH at the moment. As far as 25 man progress goes I don't think we'll be strong enough to kill anything in Sunwell before Wotlk comes out so it appears we'll be behind the curve by 6 or 8 months.

Had we been operating as we are now for the entire length of TBC (we really didn't get started doing what we do until January 2008) it's likely we'd have had BT/MH cleared and a couple of Sunwell bosses. Still unlikely we'd have gotten Kil'jaeden until the second or third round of Sunwell nerfs.

As for putting it together, we've had a few issues with people getting bored. I think what happens is their schedule opens up for more raiding days and we don't offer them enough. I can't really blame them for wanting to take Illidan out; sometimes I lament the fact that we are unlikely to get him before Wotlk because of our schedule.

Krashtork
07-31-2008, 09:56 AM
Hey Min, Indom (or was it Damage Control?) just took out Illadin for the first time and they only raid 3 days a week as well. They consider themselves "casucore" which i think is great.

Nyd
07-31-2008, 11:17 AM
We raid 25 man content 3 days a week totaling 12 to 14 hours. We started with Gruul's Lair January 12 and Killed Illidan July 12th.

I had not heard the "Casucore" term before, but I think that is a pretty good way to term us. We run a VERY lean roster with 35ish active raiders. The biggest hurdle for us was finding the people we needed to fill in the gaps and shared the same hive-mind we do. Now the biggest hurdle is who sits standby on raid nights.

We definitely hope to have continued success on the "Casucore" schedule we're on. Most of our guild is adults who have lives, families, jobs and studies that take first seat to the game.. yet everyone has been very good about being committed to those nights that we do raid. We may be the exception rather than the rule in terms of 25 man guilds however, I see a LOT of other guilds go through massive player turnover month to month.

I could probably write a short book on my personal views on guild leadership and management, what does and does not work, and how you can have success without being a slave to the game 7 days a week. Really though, Ciderhelms guild relations podcasts outline a good chunk of the basic strategies guild leaders need to adopt to achieve that level of success.