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Varil
07-15-2008, 05:41 AM
I was hoping for some insight on what sort of HP/Armor/avoidance/etc is ideal to start tanking Prince for warriors and pallies.

I'm running the instance MT'ing on my warrior with a pally off/aoe tank, and while we're both partially kara geared we're looking to see which of us would be better to step in and do the job on the big man.



Thanks,

Varil

Ghreystar
07-15-2008, 10:29 AM
i remember first tanking him with 12,814hp and 14909 armor unbuffed. think my def rating was around 495. that was also before expertise. wasnt easy, mind you, but do-able. last time i tanked him with 17,214hp, 17,104 armor and expertise rating of 33 and i think at least one of my healers fell asleep.

to answer (somewhat) your question:

use the tank with the most armor, and health. prince hits fast. and parry-gib can bring you down even faster. dont be afraid to use your shield wall and last stand, and good luck.

veneretio
07-15-2008, 10:53 AM
11k unbuffed health, 14k unbuffed armor, 45% avoidance (keep in mind he's one of the few fights in the game where avoidance is really hot so more is good)

That's what I'd call the requirements if you run 3 healers. If you run 2 + a pally tank healing then I'd shoot for more unless your group is all sporting badge gear (ie. outgears it)

Be sure to have Ironshield Potions to use for Phase 2.

Your best bet for future questions like this is to link your armory.

Varil
07-15-2008, 08:45 PM
The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Tortheldrin&n=Varil)

My armory. :) Thus far, we've had me have a go at it for a time or three, then subbed in the pally.

I have a hard time staying up in phase two due to him blowing out my shield block with a flurry of hits and sneaking in a crushing or two; where as the pally's holy shield buff stays up just long enough to avoid that.

Any tips or tricks would be lovely - mostly on the staying alive part. Seems he always pops me down at the very start of phase two in a one second burst of about 4 hits.



Thanks,

Varil

Reod
07-16-2008, 08:50 AM
Any tips or tricks would be lovely - mostly on the staying alive part. Seems he always pops me down at the very start of phase two in a one second burst of about 4 hits.

Ironshield potions to chain right before phase 2 untill phase 3 starts. Flask of fort for the entire fight. Rune of Greater Warding throw it on your chest. Stamina food. If you have avoidance/armor trinkets use them one after the other to help out for awhile. Blow shield wall for added help. Blow last stand if you go too low in hp (when in doubt use shield wall/last stand to keep yourself up its better to waste it then not use it and die). Make sure TC and DS are both us at all times (personally I only bother to put them up for the duration of phase 2)

People tend to overlook that people used to be consumabled (new word) to the limit when kara was new. If its new to you then use them first. Stop using them as you see fit. It might be overkill for you or it might be what you need to down him. If you thought it went really well then next time don't use as many consumables.

Good luck.

Shortypop
07-16-2008, 09:03 AM
Ask the rest of the run to help out - the hunter +miss thingy (sorry brain is fried after a long day), useful shammy totems for you, imp buff, as many hot's stacked and shammy healy dizzy thingy (wow my brain is really fried). Then ofc all the usual: demo, thunderclap and commanding shout - refresh them just before p2 starts. I used to pop an ironshield at 60%, shield wall when that wore off and that used to get us to 30% with me still standing.

Make sure your dps drops as much agro as they can at 62%, so you can focus entirely on staying alive and not stress about agro. Enchant your bracers and if you have it swop in sun eater and an avoidance trinket.

Also, in your spec, get 3/3 in focused rage, imp revenge is an obvious place to drop - not that that's going to help you live.

Shadevarr
07-16-2008, 09:36 AM
The big tank killer are phase 2 crushes. When I was at your gear level, I geared for heavy avoidance for prince and build aggro like crazy during phase 1. Phase two I would stop auto-attack and use "sunder armor" to keep the stack up for the melee DPS'ers, thunderclap, demo shout and commanding shout for myself and iron shield potion. I would be very quick to hit shield wall and last stand if I saw any abnormality in the damage or heals coming to me. I would suggest getting an agility and armor elixir for prince

automatics
07-16-2008, 11:19 AM
You can do this fight with limited gear but do yourself a favor, run some heroics, get some badges, and out gear it. A tank with arround 13.5-14k hp, 35% combined dodge/parry and 14k+ armor will be fine. You can do it with less EH but you are going to need as much avoidance as possible. You will look back at him one day when your just killing the purple pansy for 3 badges and t4 for alts and laugh, but for now he means buisness.


This is a big avoidance fight, but effictive health does not hurt. Since prince hits fast durring phase you will inevitably take crushing blows since your shield block charges will be used up before the cd.

Reactionary healing on this fight usually results in a dead tank, your healers need to keep you topped off at all times so you can take the spike dmg that he can output. You are going to take crusing blows in this fight and additional spike damage from parries so if your healers are letting you sit low on health they fail.

You want to have as many O !@% buttons to press as possible. Survivability trinkets, shield wall, last stand, nightmare seeds, health pots, and health stones. This is one fight where as a tank I watch the health bar very closely because sometimes you have to reach into your bag of tricks, or heal yourself.


It is also imperative to keep improved t-clap up the entire fight as well as demo shout. You also need to spam shield block and keep that up all the time.

With my gear now I mostly use consumables for additional threat, since my guild out-gears this fight by far and I need to keep up on threat with t5+ geared dps.

For progression you will want to roll with a flask of fortification, 30 stam buff food, and chain drink ironshield pots. Dps and healers in this fight unless they outgear it enough should also be using consumables, and mana pot on cd the entire fight. Karazhan is still serious buisness untill you outgear it and just run it for alts, badges, and void crystals.

Varil
07-16-2008, 11:56 AM
So it sounds like I should be fine to tank it (13.1k hp, 15.8k armor, 36% dodge/parry unbuffed) and I've just been getting unlucky or need to sit down with our healers and figure out what the issue is.

Many of them outgear the fight (anywhere from 1600 - 2300 BH) and have had over geared tanks in the past and may not just be healing agressively enough to keep me up through that phase.

At any rate, thank you for the input. :)


Varil

Krashtork
07-16-2008, 12:29 PM
Your healers and dps will play a large role in your success as a tank on this fight. Your healers do have to heal you aggressively and can't let your bar slip any in phase 2. If you have a boomkin and/or hunter make sure they do their moves that reduce the target's chance to hit. Also, the more expertise the better. Prince in phase 2 has a very high parry rate. If you can eliminate even a few of those parries with expertise you will greatly lessen your chance of suddenly dying.

Make sure to check your combat logs when you die, you can greatly improve your game by seeing how you died and try to prevent it from happening again. Knowing is half the battle.

Reod
07-16-2008, 01:03 PM
So it sounds like I should be fine to tank it (13.1k hp, 15.8k armor, 36% dodge/parry unbuffed) and I've just been getting unlucky or need to sit down with our healers and figure out what the issue is.

Many of them outgear the fight (anywhere from 1600 - 2300 BH) and have had over geared tanks in the past and may not just be healing agressively enough to keep me up through that phase.

At any rate, thank you for the input. :)


Varil

For prince your healers can only help so much if you get completely crushed. If you don't have the mitigate/EH/avoidance to take a string of hits it won't matter how much +healing your healers have. There has to be something left standing to heal ;)

Cronaldo
07-18-2008, 05:46 AM
Look at my armory, I did it last nigth and was really easy. Its the third time that i did it so easy! and i think that my gear is normal.

hvidgaard
07-20-2008, 04:46 PM
the problem is really that he has a trash ability which instantly grants him 2 extra attacks. If he eats your SB and crush you for the next 2-3 blows, then unless you outgear it or you get lucky with a critheal you're most likely dead before you can press LS and/or SW. This is the reason when avoidance is so nice here, if you can avoid just 1 of these attacks then you'll most likely be fine.

I found that 2 healers only on you, constantly spamming heals is the best way to go. They should only cancel a heal if you're at 95% or more (using a /stopcast macro in the used heal helps alot to always keep a big heal in the pipe)

nbska
07-27-2008, 04:42 PM
My stats:

Health: 13,003
Armor: 14.9k
Dodge: 14%
Parry: 19%
Block: 23%

I STILL have troubles tanking him, I'm thinking It's because of lazy healers, but damn I've seen more undergeared tanks do this... kind of upsetting.

Raize
07-27-2008, 05:21 PM
What is your defence at?
Your parry seems to be ok, but your dodge is very very low. In Phase 2, blocking 500-600 dmg from a 6k hit isn't going to save you if you are unlucky to get a string of hits but avoiding even just one of them will.

fastidius
07-27-2008, 09:13 PM
when you say patially kara geared you have more bits than our tank and the annoying bits like shoulders and chest and we down him weekly.....pocketwatch for the win...

demo shout,hunter with his miss rate sting, Thunderclap. no curse of recklessness....SHIELD BLOCK is a must spam it if its close to ready again...