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Sonick
07-03-2008, 06:19 PM
Hey guys! First time poster here. I have played my warrior since april 2007 but just recently went fury (about 2 months ago) and I'm having problems with DPS. I am having a hard time breaking 800 dps. My gear is decent considering my length of time being fury, but I still feel like I should do more dps than I am. I typically keep up bs, have windfury, stone on my OH, about roughly 2800 ap, 33 crit, and 193 hit raid buffed. Any advice on what I should do differently would be greatly appreciate. Armory and WWS below.

Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Bonechewer&n=S%C3%B6nick)
Shade of Akama fight
(http://wowwebstats.com/5mqjp4w5jhhfo?s=50321-53193)Najentus (http://wowwebstats.com/klkj6zsjrt6em?s=65448-85774)

Mediumwell
07-04-2008, 07:00 AM
I also recently went from prot to fury. It was a welcome change in pace but there is a lot to learn to actually be competitive on the meters. The only real flaw in your gear from what I can see are your weapon enchants. Executioner on MH and Mongoose on your OH is a winning combination. I don't have the math capacity to back this statement but everything I've read on this site as well as EJ's is that those enchants will out dps 20str any day of the week.

While it's next to impossible to get into a heroic Magister's Terrace run as fury/ms, pay someone if you have to and get yourself the Shard of Contempt. Expertise helps out quite a bit more than I expected it to, and the thing procs all the time.

Concerning your abilities Bloodthirst > Whirlwind > Heroic Strike. Use heroic strike when you have more than 60 rage and BT and WW are on cooldown (which they always should be) and you don't have any shouts to refresh. ALWAYS keep Battle Shout up, and try to refresh Rampage with about 4 or 5 secs left on the buff.

Kind of a "no shit" answer but make sure that you are always attacking from behind.

Pally buffs: 3 pally's Salvation > Kings > Might
2 pally's Salvation > Kings
1 pally Salvation

Your spec looks good. Being that your hit rating is up there you may consider taking a point or two from precision or imp. execute and putting it into weapon mastery. Being dodged less is more important than 5 extra rage on execute imo, but that is a preference more than a fact.

In execute range try switching to faster weapons for more rage generation and bigger executes.

Time your cooldowns to be used together, and keep your bloodlust brooch on CD always. I macro the CD on bloodlust brooch to my bloodthirst ability. I have a macro to use Recklesness+Insane Strength Potion+the CD on Bulwark of Ancient Kings+Bloodlust Brooch (if it's not already on CD). Since you have a shammy in your group time your cooldowns to be used with Bloodlust and sit back and enjoy the big numbers show (be advised...this will cause a lot of threat, so hopefully you have pretty decent tanks and a Salvation buff).

Those are the big points that I covered when I first went fury and I went from the just above the tanks to top 5 on bosses pretty quickly. I'm not by any means an expert on the subject (i'm still pretty new to the fury thing myself), so feel free to correct my mistakes Tankspot faithful.

If you want expert advice and big maths..check out EJ's
DPS Warrior Compendium - Elitist Jerks (http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t22705-dps_warrior_compendium/)

GarrettJaxx
07-04-2008, 07:22 AM
Hey guys! First time poster here. I have played my warrior since april 2007 but just recently went fury (about 2 months ago) and I'm having problems with DPS. I am having a hard time breaking 800 dps. My gear is decent considering my length of time being fury, but I still feel like I should do more dps than I am. I typically keep up bs, have windfury, stone on my OH, about roughly 2800 ap, 33 crit, and 193 hit raid buffed. Any advice on what I should do differently would be greatly appreciate. Armory and WWS below.

Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Bonechewer&n=S%C3%B6nick)
Shade of Akama fight
(http://wowwebstats.com/5mqjp4w5jhhfo?s=50321-53193)Najentus (http://wowwebstats.com/klkj6zsjrt6em?s=65448-85774)

EDIT: - just looked at wep-enchants - those should also be tweaked - you can leave potency on your offhand if you like the AP boost and need it more (I think you do), but grab Executioner on the main hand, it really helps. Grab Dory's embrace if you can, get some extra passive Armor Penetration. As more ArP gear drops for you you'll see that Executioner shine. Talent-wise it looks like you have 2/2 in Improved Execute and have neglected Weapon Mastery. Odds are alot of your attacks are being dodged in MH and especially in BT by Trash and Bosses. That impacts your dps in a big way at the end of a night. If you look at your WWS and add columns for Dodge, it says you were dodged on Heroic Strikes 7.5% of the time. Imagine if that was 5% instead. Same with Bloodthirsts and Executes, dodged 6% of the time. What if that was only 4%? My math may be off in these numbers, but no Expertise, at this level of raiding, will definitely kill your overall DPS. More talent thoughts below.

Armory-wise, while your unbuffed stats are fine (2040/29.5/175), you don't have two AP-boosting gear pieces that many Fury warriors swear by (well, at least I swear by the first of these) - the Shard of Contempt and the Shattered Sun Pendant of Might. Now there's nothing wrong with the Hourglass of the Unraveller, but it's uptime pales compared to the Shard (and note, 44 Expertise rating to boot which we covered above).

The other thing I notice is that you have two offspeed weapons, both slow, one 2.5 and your offhand is 2.6. That could be causing an issue with your rage generation. And, if you have high latency, that will be compounded, and a good chunk of raid-buffed dps could be falling off.

Finally, back to talents, get rid of those 3 points in Rend, and put them in Iron Will - your time on target in fights is essential (especially if you're building gear). Every stun you don't resist reduces that ToT, so those points might help a little bit. Your on target in DPS about 30% of the time, that's not bad, but every tick helps.

GL man, you're obviously, by your stats trying very hard. I'd be surprised if with a talent reshuffle and if you can even out the rage generation from your offhand and especially increase your Expertise rating and raid-proccing AP you won't see better output. The Shard of Contempt should be your first stop, replace the Hourglass, and don't worry about losing crit, in a raid you'll get that buffed back up in no time.

Garbid
07-04-2008, 08:08 PM
This is from your wws report:

18:18'04.272 Sönick's Swing dodged by High Warlord Naj’entus
18:18'10.928 Sönick's Swing dodged by High Warlord Naj’entus
18:18'28.022 Sönick's Whirlwind parried by High Warlord Naj’entus
18:18'28.037 Sönick's Whirlwind parried by High Warlord Naj’entus
18:18'28.272 Sönick's Swing dodged by High Warlord Naj’entus
18:18'30.928 Sönick's Heroic Strike dodged by High Warlord Naj’entus
18:18'44.397 Sönick's Heroic Strike dodged by High Warlord Naj’entus
18:19'20.490 Sönick's Heroic Strike dodged by High Warlord Naj’entus
18:19'22.865 Sönick's Swing dodged by High Warlord Naj’entus
18:19'25.334 Sönick's Heroic Strike dodged by High Warlord Naj’entus
18:19'39.975 Sönick's Swing dodged by High Warlord Naj’entus
18:20'06.959 Sönick's Swing dodged by High Warlord Naj’entus
18:20'13.553 Sönick's Swing dodged by High Warlord Naj’entus
18:20'17.881 Sönick's Swing dodged by High Warlord Naj’entus
18:20'20.256 Sönick's Heroic Strike dodged by High Warlord Naj’entus
18:20'43.600 Sönick's Swing dodged by High Warlord Naj’entus
18:21'03.194 Sönick's Swing dodged by High Warlord Naj’entus
18:21'06.678 Sönick's Bloodthirst dodged by High Warlord Naj’entus
18:21'35.725 Sönick's Heroic Strike dodged by High Warlord Naj’entus
18:22'08.928 Sönick's Heroic Strike dodged by High Warlord Naj’entus
18:22'26.256 Sönick's Bloodthirst dodged by High Warlord Naj’entus
18:22'30.256 Sönick's Heroic Strike dodged by High Warlord Naj’entus
18:22'54.522 Sönick's Swing dodged by High Warlord Naj’entus
18:22'58.694 Sönick's Swing dodged by High Warlord Naj’entus
18:23'18.287 Sönick's Swing dodged by High Warlord Naj’entus
18:23'37.912 Sönick's Swing dodged by High Warlord Naj’entus
18:24'00.615 Sönick's Swing dodged by High Warlord Naj’entus
18:24'01.428 Sönick's Swing dodged by High Warlord Naj’entus


Get Shard of Contempt! Will reduce your dodged attacks to about 4-7.

GarrettJaxx
07-04-2008, 08:41 PM
Get Shard of Contempt! Will reduce your dodged attacks to about 4-7.
yes, and, again, get Weapon Mastery.

Sonick
07-04-2008, 10:41 PM
Thank you all so very much for the replies. I've gotta get to bed but Ill respond with more tomorrow. Thanks again and look tomorrow for my 'real' reply =)

Jathine
07-08-2008, 01:01 PM
While it's next to impossible to get into a heroic Magister's Terrace run as fury/ms, pay someone if you have to and get yourself the Shard of Contempt. Expertise helps out quite a bit more than I expected it to, and the thing procs all the time.

Do guild runs. You can get in and outta there in like 35-40 minutes if you take smart people. My fastest run ever was with me, prot pally, holy priest, enhance shammy and ret pally we ran through that place in about 28 minutes



Pally buffs: 3 pally's Salvation > Kings > Might
2 pally's Salvation > Kings
1 pally Salvation

No. Might is better for dps than Kings.


Your spec looks good. Being that your hit rating is up there you may consider taking a point or two from precision or imp. execute and putting it into weapon mastery. Being dodged less is more important than 5 extra rage on execute imo, but that is a preference more than a fact.

Never remove points from Precision. The standard 17/44 spec has no points into Imp Execute with those two points going into Weapon Mastery. And no, Weapon Mastery is far better than 5 extra rage on Executes. It is a 2% increase in your total dps while Imp Exe is only applicable to roughly less than 10% of your total dps on bosses.


In execute range try switching to faster weapons for more rage generation and bigger executes.

Wrong again. You switch to faster weapons so you can Execute on every GCD with as little rage as possible. Execute loses its rage:damage efficiency when you get more than 20 rage. If you are getting over 25 rage and WW or BT is ready use that because it will give you more damage per rage spent.


Time your cooldowns to be used together, and keep your bloodlust brooch on CD always. I macro the CD on bloodlust brooch to my bloodthirst ability. I have a macro to use Recklesness+Insane Strength Potion+the CD on Bulwark of Ancient Kings+Bloodlust Brooch (if it's not already on CD). Since you have a shammy in your group time your cooldowns to be used with Bloodlust and sit back and enjoy the big numbers show (be advised...this will cause a lot of threat, so hopefully you have pretty decent tanks and a Salvation buff).

Haste pots are much better than Insane Strength Pots.

Mediumwell
07-09-2008, 08:54 AM
Never remove points from Precision. The standard 17/44 spec has no points into Imp Execute with those two points going into Weapon Mastery. And no, Weapon Mastery is far better than 5 extra rage on Executes. It is a 2% increase in your total dps while Imp Exe is only applicable to roughly less than 10% of your total dps on bosses.


There is nothing wrong with taking points from precision if you are at the soft cap for hit and you are happy with your rage generation without the points there.

"The standard" 17/44 is a basic guildline for fury, not carved in stone fact for maximum dps output. So again, it's your personal preference..take two points from precision (as long as that doesnt drop you below the cap) or imp execute for weapon mastery.


Wrong again. You switch to faster weapons so you can Execute on every GCD with as little rage as possible. Execute loses its rage:damage efficiency when you get more than 20 rage. If you are getting over 25 rage and WW or BT is ready use that because it will give you more damage per rage spent.


So basically (like I said) you switch to faster weapons in execute range. Also, execute only loses it's rage:damage efficiency after 30 rage, and you need to have high lvls of AP for a bloodthirst to out dps it, and WW should not be used in execute range..ever. http://www.tankspot.com/forums/damage-per-second-discussion/36552-dw-fury-guide-5th-edition-7.html


Haste pots are much better than Insane Strength Pots.

This is a true statement, my bad :)

Jathine
07-09-2008, 10:03 AM
There is nothing wrong with taking points from precision if you are at the soft cap for hit and you are happy with your rage generation without the points there.

"The standard" 17/44 is a basic guildline for fury, not carved in stone fact for maximum dps output. So again, it's your personal preference..take two points from precision (as long as that doesnt drop you below the cap) or imp execute for weapon mastery.

Actually, yes the standard 17/44 build is maximized for dps. Imp Execute is worse point for point compared to Precision at all points. 2/2 Imp Execute adds 105 damage (21 extra damage per rage, 5 lower rage cost for 2/2) to each Execute before armor, or probably about 75 damage after armor for most people. On my best Anetheron to date Imp Execute would have increased my execute damage by just under 2500 (8 hits, 12 crits). That would only have been a 20 dps (only 1.1%) increase for the entire fight. 2% more hit will add more than 20 dps throughout a fight from just not missing as often and that doesn't even account for the extra rage generation or WF procs.

Imp Execute should never be taken over Precision. The only way it would be personal preference is if you prefer to do less dps.

Weapon Mastery > Precision >> Imp Execute


So basically (like I said) you switch to faster weapons in execute range. Also, execute only loses it's rage:damage efficiency after 30 rage, and you need to have high lvls of AP for a bloodthirst to out dps it, and WW should not be used in execute range..ever. http://www.tankspot.com/forums/damage-per-second-discussion/36552-dw-fury-guide-5th-edition-7.html


You got the conclusion right, but for the wrong reasons. That isn't basically right. It was luck.

You can get more damage per rage out of a WW when you are at high amounts of rage than by dumping it all into Execute. Execute is insanely rage inefficient compared to other abilities once you are passed 30 rage (my bad on 20, but they use 30 in their calculations because that is the cost of BT) into the Execute. Execute becomes more and more inefficient the more rage you dump into it. When you are spamming execute you want to be as close to the cost as possible.

ebs2002
07-09-2008, 12:06 PM
Not to be nitpicky here, but:

Imp Execute is worse point for point compared to Precision at all points. 2/2 Imp Execute adds 105 damage (21 extra damage per rage, 5 lower rage cost for 2/2) to each Execute before armor, or probably about 75 damage after armor for most people.

That's not entirely true. If you're not able to spam execute on every global cooldown (I don't know about you, but this happens to me on occasion), Imp Execute helps smooth that out. If you miss with your mainhand and your offhand only nets you 10 rage, you can execute before you have to swing again.

Maybe I'm just doing something wrong, but I can see a case being made for wanting imp execute over precision for some fights that have long periods in Execute time, or when the last 20% is the most difficult part of the fight (ie, Leo after the split, Hex Lord).

I do agree though, that for most fights, precision is better DPS (especially when you consider a boss will die faster below 20% because warriors can execute spam)

Mediumwell
07-09-2008, 12:20 PM
Actually, yes the standard 17/44 build is maximized for dps. Imp Execute is worse point for point compared to Precision at all points.

If your static hit rating is through the roof, why not make execute more rage efficient? I'm not going to argue that 2% more hit is a bad thing, but when you reach a certain lvl of hit the value starts to decrease rapidly. There are a lot of factors that would go into figuring out which is better, but 105 more dmg everytime I use an ability sounds better than 2 more white hits out of 100 landing.


You can get more damage per rage out of a WW when you are at high amounts of rage than by dumping it all into Execute. Execute is insanely rage inefficient compared to other abilities once you are passed 30 rage (my bad on 20, but they use 30 in their calculations because that is the cost of BT) into the Execute. Execute becomes more and more inefficient the more rage you dump into it. When you are spamming execute you want to be as close to the cost as possible

So you're saying that instead of execute spamming you should be saving rage for a whirlwind? At certain lvls of attack power BT outperforms execute per 30 rage, but having the rage to keep whirlwind and BT on cooldown while at the same time spamming execute is going to prove difficult at best.


That isn't basically right. It was luck.

You are absolutely right! I just pulled some guesswork out of my ass and told him that switching to faster weapons to execute was the way to go. LUCKY for me it was the right thing to tell him. And what about my original statement wasnt right? Faster weapons generating more rage or more rage equaling bigger executes?

Kazeyonoma
07-09-2008, 01:29 PM
relax.

this isn't the official forums, get this flaming out of here.

You both present good points, discuss it in a better manner please.

I see keeping 2 point sin precision as a benefit because that's more hitrating you can REMOVE from your gear to replace with Str/AP/Crit/ArP/Haste upgrades instead. I think that's part of what he's trying to say for keeping 2 points in precision. Likewise he's not saying you should save rage for anything, within 15-25 rage area, execute is better damage per rage than any other skill but once it gets to 25, whirlwind is better, and at 30, bloodthirst is better, this doesn't mean you shouldn't be spamming the crap out of execute, just that if you notice your rage jump up from a couple of big crits to 30 rage then BT instead.

Mediumwell
07-09-2008, 02:56 PM
Jathine, sorry if I came across as rude. Most of my reply was purely for arguments sake, the last bit there could have been a tad more civil. :)

Sonick, sorry to hijack your post, but I'm a sucker for a good argument.

Jathine
07-09-2008, 10:06 PM
I don't have a problem with the way you were saying anything. I am quite harsh on my own. I take it as easily as I give it. So no big deal.

Btw, what you told the guy about switching to fast weapon in execute range that was wrong was that the point isn't to have bigger executes, but instead to hit them every GCD with as little wasted rage as possible. Execute is most efficient when used as close to the cost as possible, but when you spike up to 50+ rage it is best to dump some rage before hitting Execute. You are getting more damage out of your rage doing that.

Faster weapons (compared to slower weapons of the same dps) don't generate more rage, they generate rage smoother. The smoother rage generation lets you stay in the sweet spot for max Execute efficiency. Slow weapons will cause you to have huge spikes in rage that lead to inefficient use of your rage by just dumping into Execute.

Kazaganthi
07-10-2008, 06:52 AM
You general rotation looks odd. In the akama fight you had only 6 bts and 3 whirlwinds...to 13 heroic strikes. Heroic should be a rage dump...not a mainstay and for most of that fight you should use cleave anyway. Consider using cleave, ww, and sweeping strikes on the channelers/sorcerers. You can boost your dps by quite a bit. On the actual shade, setup a proper bloodthirst/whirlwind rotation. This is covered in Meeks fury guide.

Kaz

Mediumwell
07-10-2008, 09:15 AM
Execute (untalented) is 920dmg plus 21dmg for every point of rage you have over the base cost (15 rage). Therefore:

Execute: 30 rage = 1235dmg
50 rage = 1655dmg
70 rage = 2075dmg

Bloodthirst deals damage equal to 45% of your AP for 30 rage. Therefore:
2100ap = 945dmg
2200ap = 990dmg
2300ap = 1035dmg
and so on until....
2750ap = 1237.5dmg outperforming execute by 2 dmg.

With Improved Execute the amount of AP needed for BT to outperform execute goes up, as well as with T6 set bonus. So again...unless you are above 2750ap, execute wins.

Apparently the OP said that he/she has around 2800 raid buffed ap...so yeah...bt if you go above 30 rage, unless you are still talented in Imp execute.

Brucimus
07-10-2008, 03:16 PM
With Improved Execute the amount of AP needed for BT to outperform execute goes up, as well as with T6 set bonus. So again...unless you are above 2750ap, execute wins.

When I'm raid buffed i'm always over 2750AP...hell I have 2700 AP with just Battle shout and Rampage up. So should I forget about the execute spam at the end of boss fights?

Mediumwell
07-10-2008, 04:06 PM
When I'm raid buffed i'm always over 2750AP...hell I have 2700 AP with just Battle shout and Rampage up. So should I forget about the execute spam at the end of boss fights?

No, just keep bloodthirst on cooldown while doing your execute spam.

ebs2002
07-11-2008, 07:44 AM
Watch your rage bar.

If you're over 30 rage, bloodthirst if it's up. If you're not, keep hitting execute.

On execute range, it's most important to use every cooldown you have, tossing in BT where you can.