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Bloodwraith
07-03-2008, 01:52 PM
Talk about everything WotLK PvP here to prevent a bunch of threads popping up like the warrior forums have.

Any info/suggestions are welcome :D

3.0.3 is live.

Beta has been closed.

WotLK has been released.
__________________________________________________ __________

WotLK PvP
With WotLK PvP there are a lot of interesting new features for PvP.

Table of Contents


I. Siege Weapons
II. Strand of the Ancients
III. Lake Wintergrasp
IV. Arena
V. Dalaran Sewers
VI. Orgrimmar Arena
VII. WotLK PC Requirements
VIII. WotLK FAQ
IX. WotLK Links

I. Siege Weapons


Siege weapons will be player-controlled vehicles for use in PvP combat. There are currently 5 different types of vehicles planned, each with a specific purpose. Some can carry passengers, including a driver and sometimes gunners who control individual turrets on the vehicle.

Currently these vehicles are meant for use in the outdoor PvP zone Lake Wintergrasp and in Strand of the Ancients, where destructible buildings will play a key part in combat. Some discussion has been had of allowing these weapons to operate in other zones, including adding destructible buildings to older battlegrounds, however there has been nothing confirmed at this time.

Developers are still discussing how these vehicles will be obtained, but they have stated they want the process to be "fast-paced and fun."


http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t103/bloodwraith816/WotLK%20Pics/Catapult.jpg

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t103/bloodwraith816/WotLK%20Pics/Bomber.jpg

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t103/bloodwraith816/WotLK%20Pics/SiegeEngine.jpg

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t103/bloodwraith816/WotLK%20Pics/Goblinshredder.jpg

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t103/bloodwraith816/WotLK%20Pics/demolisher.jpg

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t103/bloodwraith816/WotLK%20Pics/flyingmachine.jpg

II. Strand of the Ancients


The Strand of the Ancients is a Titan-themed battleground which will be a "D-Day like situation" where one Faction attacks from sea, and the other defends the large Keep at the northern end of the battleground.

Demolisher vehicles are spawned periodically next to the starting boats. These must be used to destroy gates. There are 5 gates and 1 door in the battleground. The attacking team may attack either of the first two gates to gain access to the next two gates. Either of the next two gates may be destroyed to gain access to the last gate. Once the last gate is destroyed, the attacking team must destroy the door protecting the titan portal. Once the door is destroyed, the attacking team may capture the Titan Portal to end that round.


Actually, we have been discussing new battlegrounds quite a bit lately. Wrath of the Lich King will feature Strand of the Ancients (attack/defend) as well as Wintergrasp (non-instanced, world PvP).

But past that, we are exploring ideas that would involve expanding our Battleground content in future patches and beyond. We believe we have some strong ideas for improving Battlegrounds and PvP as a whole in the game and we're definitely going to focus on improvements in the future. Now, it's very early to be talking about some of this stuff but I think it's important for the community to know that it's on our minds.

Our general thought is that we could provide more BG content over time. The BG content that we could provide could be of higher quality with a higher degree of accessibility. Overall, we'd like to have more content and variety. We also want the gameplay experience in the BGs to be better directed. We're also exploring the concept of a complimentary "competitive" bg system as well. Over time, we'd like the focus of PvP to shift back to being more BG-centric and more focused on Horde versus Alliance -- the core of our game.

We're also planning on improving some Battleground and PvP features in general. For example, we want to give you the ability to queue for Battlegrounds from anywhere in the world. We're also going to explore EXP gain through the PvP system as well as low level itemization to support that.

Please don't take this post as a promise. This won't be an overnight process. Not all of these things are set in stone and guaranteed to happen. It would take us a while to shift in this direction. But these are some of the current thoughts on the development team. I think it's important for you guys to know some of our thought process in regards to PvP.



Video- New BG Video (http://wotlkwiki.info/index.php/Strand_of_the_Ancients#tab=Media)

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t103/bloodwraith816/WotLK%20Pics/PlayableMap.jpg

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t103/bloodwraith816/WotLK%20Pics/BG1-1.jpg

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t103/bloodwraith816/WotLK%20Pics/BG2-1.jpg

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t103/bloodwraith816/WotLK%20Pics/BG3-1.jpg


III. Lake Wintergrasp


Lake Wintergrasp is a large lake located in between Sholazar Basin, the Borean Tundra, The Dragonblight, and Icecrown Glacier. It is the largest body of water, albeit frozen, on the continent of Northrend.

Lake Wintergrasp will appear as a zone fully dedicated to World PvP, even on PvE servers. It will focus on siege weapon warfare.

*Lake Wintergrasp is WoW's first non-battleground zone solely devoted to PvP action.
*According to a fixed, rolling schedule, one faction will defend the keep/mine, and the other faction will assault it. Both sides will fight over towers and siege workshops scattered around the zone.
*If the attacking force succeeds in capturing the keep/mine, that faction will defend it during the next rotation. If that attacking force fails to capture the final objective before the next rotation, that faction will be given more resources (unknown to what those might be for now)" to balance out the fight, and give every faction a chance to hold Lake Wintergrasp.
*Lake Wintergrasp will feature a variety of new daily quests. These quests include (but are not limited to): quests where you have to ride a mount with an NPC, holding attackers at bay; flying aircraft quests; flying mount quests where you have to lower ropes to evacuate NPCs; in these quests, mounts can hold multiple players!

Lake Wintergrasp Daily Quests:

This is the first fully PvP zone of the game, it's only fair its daily quests are PvP oriented. Well 3 out of 4 is and they are nice and fast too. They are all available in the Fortress if your faction controls it or in your village close to the fortress if you're on offense:

* For 620 Honor and 20.63g you need to kill 20 Alliance Players. This is easily obtainable since you need to re-earn your Private, Corporal, First Lieutenant ranks at the beginning of each battle in order to control and buy siege engines.
* For another 620 Honor and 20.63g you have to kill 3 enemy Siege Engines. The big tanks.
* There are some fire elementals that are used to fuel the siege engines for 10 of their essences you get 412 Honor and 20.63g
* Of course there is a daily quest for winning the battle either by taking the fortress or defending it. The reward is another 620 Honor and 20.63g

The Vault of Archavon is a short instance with one boss in it that is only accessible after your side (Horde or Alliance) has claimed victory in Wintergrasp.

There is both a 10 and 25 man version of this instance.



Lake Wintergrasp Videos (http://wotlkwiki.info/index.php/Lake_Wintergrasp#tab=Media)

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t103/bloodwraith816/WotLK%20Pics/LakeMap.jpg

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t103/bloodwraith816/WotLK%20Pics/Lake1.jpg

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t103/bloodwraith816/WotLK%20Pics/Lake2.jpg

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t103/bloodwraith816/WotLK%20Pics/Lake3.jpg

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t103/bloodwraith816/WotLK%20Pics/Lake4.jpg

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t103/bloodwraith816/WotLK%20Pics/Lake5.jpg


IV. Arena


Expansion PvP gear will be different in appearance from PvE gear.


Buffs that have 30 seconds or less remaining will be removed once the game starts. However, the mage spell “Invisibility” is not affected by this change.


When Wrath of the Lich King is released, all arena points earned in teams at the level 70 bracket will be reset to zero, but only once a player levels to 71. (If a player remains level 70, they will still have their points.)


Currently on beta there are 3 PvP sets. Savage (Blue)< Hateful (Epic)< Deadly (Epic). There is also not-set PvP gear crafted from professions.


The Honor cap (formerly 75k Honor) has been either raised or removed in Beta. Whether or not this is temporary for testing purposes has yet to be confirmed.


Yes, we do have a plan to separate the matchmaking system somewhat from the point and rating requirement system. Essentially, we'd use the Elo system for points and rating requirements, but use something called a gaussian distribution filter for matchmaking (essentially an under-the-hood rating that governs matchmaking, and persists for your character regardless of changing teams, etc).


Nameplates are visible across the arena, as soon as the doors open.


I'll do what I can to explain what our philosophy has been on the topic, for better or for worse. ;]

To address the point of not having access to any pvp gear before attempting to start arenas, I don't actually feel that's accurate. We've made a point to include easily craftable pvp gear of dungeon quality to give players a chance to get their feet in the door before moving along the upgrade path.

The Savage Gladiator set is actually of item level 200s (superior), equivalent to the item level of a heroic instance. So, in much the same way that you might expect a player to first gear up in normal mode instances and get a handful of ilevel 187s items before proceeding to the heroics, the philosophy is that in the pvp case players will get the 187s crafted pvp items before attempting endgame pvp activity.

In addition, players have access to ilevel 200e (epics) for the boots, belt, bracers, ring, neck, trinket, cape exclusively through honor (equivalent item level to end-boss heroic instances, nax 10, or items from the Emblem of Heroism vendor). These items, combined with the crafted items, provide a pretty good base of items from which a player might make an entry into the arenas.

At that stage, the number of arena points required for a player to get a piece of Savage Gladiator equipment is tuned to be pretty generous. Even at a significantly sub-1500 rating, a player can generally get about a piece of the Savage Gladiator set with the points from one week (10 games), which is generally about a time investment of less than an hour of arena play per week. This seems to stack up very competitively with how long it might take running heroic instances to get a piece of gear for your character.

As far as the question as to why the Savage Gladiator set requires arena points, there needs to be a set of gear obtainable through arena points that requires no rating, otherwise there's simply nothing for a player of 1500 or below to play for, beyond the hope that they might at some point go above 1600 rating (which not everyone is guaranteed to do).

It's certainly valid to express one's dislike for the arena play style, although is it entirely different than requiring players that love the arenas to play in the battlegrounds to get their boots, belt, bracer, rings, neck, trinkets, and cape? One could also make the argument that it's somewhat similar to the fact that we "require" all players to level-up in order to participate in end-game content, or perhaps that engaging in trade skills is "required" to be maximally competitive in raiding or pvp game play.

We’re also doing what we can to address the fact that players that don’t have high ratings can often still get steamrolled by highly rated players that are starting new teams, helping friends, etc. As I’ve described in another post, we have plans to keep a persistent “under-the-hood” rating for all characters that is used for determining matchmaking, so that even if a highly rated player starts a new team (or joins another low-rated team), the system will know what opponents that team should really be playing against.

That being said, the fact that some players feel there is too much emphasis on the arena as a method for getting powerful endgame pvp gear is heard and understood. We'd love for players to be able to get high-end gear from the battlegrounds, and it's something that will definitely factor into our plans for the future. However for now, we don't have a way to measure "skill" in a battleground in a way that getting the "best" items in the game through battlegrounds would feel equitable when compared to what is required as far as co-ordination and success in pve to get items of equivalent power.

Of course, I realize that the subject of "skill" is another topic of debate on its own, with many players citing gear quality and team comps as factors in determining the outcome (some seem to go as far as to imply that it's all that matters). Clearly, those factors do influence the outcome, but not in a way that makes skill irrelevant. If that were the case, it wouldn't be very hard to step onto the stage with some of the pro-gamers in the tournament and take them down in a match of even gear and comps. However, I can assure you that while I consider myself (for example) a pretty respectable player when it comes to arenas, I and a pair of similarly skilled teammates probably wouldn't win more than 1 in every 100 games against the top players despite using identical gear and comps. Like it or not, that's skill.

That aside, it is important for me to point out that the arenas were never really meant to become quite as much of a focal point for the overall pvp game as they have (part of why we set the system up so players could get the full benefit from the system with only 10 total games per week), it's more of a natural consequence of the fact that because we have a way to measure success that feels reasonably balanced against pve, we're able to put high-end items there, which on its own creates the focus of importance. I'd venture to say that if there were no item rewards in the arena system, they wouldn't be quite the subject of debate that they are now (either with respect to overshadowing battlegrounds or with respect to the microscope that class balance gets put under as a result)."

2 New Arenas

New Features:
"Movable" objects. Structures and obstacles that provide changing line of sight (LOS) across the battlefield every few seconds. (For example: pillars might go up and down randomly, on a timer, etc.) These dynamic elements will make each arena feel different.

V. Dalaran Sewers
The arena is fairly small and mounts won't be allowed here.

The arena will make use of new variable environmental elements, mainly water:


Each team will start in a pipe on one side of the map, as the match begins a column of water will "push" the teams out of their pipes to prevent camping.



Water levels will rise and fall around the edges of the arena throughout the match.



There is a pipe coming from the ceiling. Every once in a while a column of water will start dropping from this pipe, causing variable LOS issues.




http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t103/bloodwraith816/DalaranSewers1.jpg

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t103/bloodwraith816/WotLK%20Pics/Sewer2.jpg

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t103/bloodwraith816/WotLK%20Pics/Sewer1.jpg


VI. Orgrimmar Arena
The arena will make use of new variable environmental elements, including:


Elevating pillars that move on set timers, creating variable LOS issues around which groups can plan new strategies. There will be wheels and gears on the side of the arena that will spin to alert groups that the pillars are about to move.



Triggered objects that damage players. Example: as the pillars go down, a wall of spikes may come up. You can move across them, but you'll take some damage.



The arena will make use of a new style of elevating starting area.



Starting areas are extremely close together. Players start on elevators that rise out of the ground ten yards apart from each other.



The elevators will be surrounded by spikes that will drop a couple of seconds after the elevator reaches the top, so you'll have only a couple of seconds to plan.



The arena is a larger map. Mounts will be allowed inside.



Developers have mentioned the possibility of cheering NPC spectators.


http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t103/bloodwraith816/OrgrimmarArena1.jpg

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t103/bloodwraith816/WotLK%20Pics/Org2.jpg

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t103/bloodwraith816/WotLK%20Pics/Org1.jpg

VII. WotLK PC Requirements


PC System Requirements

OS: Windows XP (Service Pack 3), Windows Vista (Service Pack 1)

Processor:

* Minimum: Intel Pentium 4 1.3 GHz or AMD Athlon XP 1500+
* Recommended: Dual-core processor, such as the Intel Pentium D or AMD Athlon 64 X2

Memory:

* Minimum: 512 MB RAM (1GB for Vista users)
* Recommended: 1 GB RAM (2 GB for Vista users)

Video:

* Minimum: 3D graphics processor with Hardware Transform and Lighting with 32 MB VRAM
Such as an ATI Radeon 7200 or NVIDIA GeForce 2 class card or better
* Recommended: 3D graphics processor with Vertex and Pixel Shader capability with 128 MB VRAM
Such as an ATI Radeon X1600 or NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GT class card or better

Sound: DirectX-compatible sound card or motherboard sound capability

Mac System Requirements

OS: Mac OS X 10.4.11 or newer

Processor:

* Minimum: PowerPC G5 1.6 GHz or Intel Core Duo processor
* Recommended: Intel 1.8GHz processor or better

Memory:

* Minimum: 1 GB RAM
* Recommended: 2 GB RAM

Video:

* Minimum: 3D graphics processor with Hardware Transform and Lighting with 64 MB VRAM
Such as an ATI Radeon 9600 or NVIDIA GeForce Ti 4600 class card or better
* Recommended: 3D graphics processor with Vertex and Pixel Shader capability with 128 MB VRAM
Such as an ATI Radeon X1600 or NVIDIA 7600 class card or better

All Platforms

Controls: A keyboard and mouse are required. Input devices other than a mouse and keyboard are not supported.
Connectivity: You must have an active broadband Internet connection to play.
Mouse: Multi-button mouse with scroll wheel recommended.
Hard Drive Space: 15 GB free hard drive space

VIII. WotLK FAQ


Wrath FAQ:

What happens to honor/marks in LK
They will persist and be usable at L80. Marks are worth 913 honor per turn-in of For Great Honor at L80.

How often is Lake Wintersgrasp?
The battle takes place once per 2.5 hours.* When it starts, NPCs yell in Dalaran and open portals that port you there. If you attempt to fly over this zone at any time you will be dismounted after 10 seconds.

*Needs verification

Arena Points
Arena points reset at L71 and when S5 starts.

Death Knights
You can create one on any server you have a 55+ character on.*
PvP servers have normal faction restrictions. It is identical to trying to create any other character.
You may transfer a Death Knight after creating it.
You may have one Death Knight per server.

*Down the road you will be able to make a DK on any server if you have a 55+ anywhere

Arena Gear (S5)
There are three sets:
Savage Gladiator (Blue)
Hateful Gladiator (Epic)
Deadly Gladiator (Higher Epic)

Savage and Hateful gear require a mix of arena points and honor points. Savage gear requires no rating, while Hateful requires fairly low ratings. Deadly costs only arena points and requires high ratings.

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.wowinsider.com/media/2008/10/zach_bs_savage_costs.jpg

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.wowinsider.com/media/2008/10/zach_bs_hateful_costs.jpg

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.wowinsider.com/media/2008/10/zach_bs_deadly_costs.jpg

Offset PvP Gear
Costs honor
Currently does not cost BG marks
Two tiers: Hateful & Deadly
Deadly costs more honor than Hateful, but has rating requirements

Quote:
PvP Gear in WoTLK - Where to get it and how much - Arena Junkies Forums (http://www.arenajunkies.com/showthread.php?t=49943)

HONOR
[Epic. Vendor @ Hall of Legends in Org, Sergeant Thunderhorn]
Hateful Gladiator's Band of _: 38,000 HP
Hateful Gladiator's Cloak of _: 38,000 HP
Hateful Gladiator's Pendant of _: 38,000 HP
Hateful Gladiator's Bracers of _: 31.600 HP
Hateful Gladiator's Boots of _: 49,600 HP
Hateful Gladiator's Belt of _: 49,600 HP
Medallion of the Horde: 49,600 HP


HONOR + ARENA
[Rare set. Vendors @ Wintergrasp keep, Morgan Day or @ Dalaran, Zom Bocom]
Savage Gladiator's _ Gloves: 7,200 HP 200 AP
Savage Gladiator's _ Shoulders: 9,600 HP 275 AP
Savage Gladiator's _ Legs: : 12,000 HP 350 AP
Savage Gladiator's _ Helm: 12,000 HP 350 AP
Savage Gladiator's _ Chest: 12,000 HP 350 AP

Rare PVP (res+other stat) Jewelcrafting designs available for 12 Stone keeper's Shards.
Rare PVP pre-cut Meta gems (stun/fear/silence resist or run speed + other stat) availble for 15 Stone keeper's Shards.

EMBLEMS OF HEROISM (10 man raid & Heroic 5 man)
[Rare set. Vendor @ Dalaran, Magistrix Lambriesse]
Savage Gladiator's _ Gloves: 30 Heroism
Savage Gladiator's _ Shoulders: 30 Heroism
Savage Gladiator's _ Legs: 45 Heroism
Savage Gladiator's _ Helm: 45 Heroism
Savage Gladiator's _ Chest: 45 Heroism

EMBLEMS OF VALOR (25 man raid)
[Epic. Vendor @ Dalaran, Magister Brasael]
Hateful Gladiator's _ Gloves: 30 Valor
Hateful Gladiator's _ Shoulders: 30 Valor
Hateful Gladiator's _ Legs: 45 Valor
Hateful Gladiator's _ Helm: 45 Valor
Hateful Gladiator's _ Chest: 45 Valor

ARENA S5
[Epic. Vendor @ most arena queue locs]
Deadly Gladiator's Shield {2030 rating}: 2250 AP
Deadly Gladiator's Wand/Thrown {2030 rating}: 1200 AP
Deadly Gladiator's Staff {2030 rating}: 4500 AP
Deadly Gladiator's MH Melee/Caster Weapon {2030 rating}: 3150 AP
Deadly Gladiator's Offhand {2030 rating}: 1350 AP
Deadly Gladiator's Relic {2030 rating}: 1200 AP
Deadly Gladiator's 2H Melee Weapon {2030 rating}: 4500 AP
Deadly Gladiator's Ranged Weapon {2030 rating}: 4500 AP

ARENA S5 OFFSET
[Epic. Vendor @ Hall of Legends in Org, Doris Volanthius]
Battlemaster's Trinkets {1800 rating}: 62,000 HP
Deadly Gladiator's Cloak of _ {1750 rating}: 47,400 HP
Deadly Gladiator's Band of _ {1690 rating}: 47,400 HP
Deadly Gladiator's Pendant of _ {1600 rating}: 47,400 HP

Uncommon PVP Resil/Spell Pen Jewelcrafting Designs: 1250 HP each

Season 5
Starts December 16, 2008

Flying Mounts
You need Cold Weather Flying
Costs 1000g, requires L77

Dual Spec System
They said they plan to do it, but it wont be ready at release. There's also talk that they will allow glyphs to swap with specs.

Currently it is said to function like the following:
You can switch anytime anywhere, except inside arenas.
There may be a cooldown on its use (but likely a small one)
You will have a different set of glyphs for each spec
Your buttons will also switch with the spec

IX. WotLK Links


Main Page - WotlkWiki - Wrath of the Lich King Information (http://wotlkwiki.info/index.php/Main_Page)
Elitist Jerks Warrior WotLK Discussion (http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t27758-warrior_wotlk_talent_preview_discussion/)

Tatt
07-05-2008, 02:10 PM
Is it just me or does anyone else see fury as becoming much more viable for pvp? And no not just because of titan's grip! I am seeing more of the whole rogue in plate working, with conc blow being on a 30 second cd, the bounding stun attack, and the aoe bleed. Maybe I finally won't get laughed at for showing up for arena's dual wielding! :)

Ukyo
07-05-2008, 03:48 PM
You're forgetting that titan grip now allows you to DW 2h'ers and we have a trainable dispel that does more damage the more AP we have =P

Tatt
07-05-2008, 04:00 PM
Trainable dispel? I am not familiar with the term, please explain.....

Kazeyonoma
07-07-2008, 10:14 AM
Interesting...

Muggs
07-07-2008, 10:20 AM
So, I'm going to go on a limp and say the dual weilding two handers is going to be hot for pvp... why? Cause your WW is going to hit like a freight train on everything around, can you imagine the havoc that will cause in a BG or an arena where people get a little too close? The obvious problem of having them both equipped is that your auto attacks are slower, but in the arena there is a lot of movement and few opportunities to sit there an effectively wail someone outside of a stun lock.

I think it's time to start learning my warriors keybindings again.

Ukyo
07-07-2008, 10:42 PM
Trainable dispel? I am not familiar with the term, please explain.....

Blizzard is switching Shield Slam to Vigilance, and they're making Shield Slam trainable, plus they're switching the damage modifier to hit harder the more AP the warrior has (same way as Thunder Clap)

Kazeyonoma
07-08-2008, 09:25 AM
wait no way O_o, trainable shield slam, why even spec prot =x

and what does Vigilance do? Zomg, I'm out of t3h loopz

Ukyo
07-08-2008, 03:46 PM
wait no way O_o, trainable shield slam, why even spec prot =x

and what does Vigilance do? Zomg, I'm out of t3h loopz

Vigilance: Focus your protective gaze on a friendly target, increasing their chance to dodge by 5%. In addition, any time they are hit by an attack your Taunt cooldown is refreshed. Lasts until cancelled. This effect can only be on one target at a time.

and this pwns

* Sudden Death: Your melee critical hits have a 10%/20/30% chance of allowing the use of Execute regardless of the target's health state.
* Shield Break: Break down the enemy's defenses, disarming any shield they have equipped or reducing the chance the enemy will block by 3% for 10 sec. (Level 75, 15 rage, 1m cooldown)

Though i'm guessing that Disarm and Shield Break will share a CD, but for high armored healers... :drool:

Kazeyonoma
07-09-2008, 09:13 AM
wow, shield breaking a shaman makes him soft as hell... That's pretty effing sexy.

And sudden death is insane. O_o, EXECUTE AT 90%! GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

new pvp strategy.... spamstring till sudden death procs, execute with 100 rage. =X

ebs2002
07-09-2008, 09:13 AM
I wonder if Vigilance stacks with each other? Like, last night on Morogrim we had 3 warriors and a paladin...can we have the two OT warriors put vigilance on our tank to give him +10% dodge?

Oh wait, I'm in a pvp forum...can a war/war/dru team give their druid an extra 10% dodge?

Kazeyonoma
07-09-2008, 09:20 AM
assuming we want to spec x/x/31 that sounds kinda crazy. lol

but for prot pvp, I can see it being pretty strong, 5% more dodge even if it doesn't stack helps a lot.

Grufvendar
07-11-2008, 01:17 PM
I've been 41/5/15 for a while in an all around pvp/off-tank build. I like Arms but am having trouble getting excited about Bladestorm. Anyone else? With them getting rid of Defiance, that will free up some of my points in Prot and I'll have to decide where to put them. Some of the new talents though....extra bleed damage for talent points. WTF?

Ukyo
07-11-2008, 05:13 PM
I'm picking that shit up, that AoE Bleed effect plus imp. Blood Frenzy is gonna pwn

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=LVhhkGboghdfbstVxzu0x)

my future spec =D

Kazeyonoma
07-12-2008, 03:44 AM
AoE Bleed effect + Imp Blood Frenzy + Bloodletting + Enraged Target + Bloodbath = HELLO 5 man AOE 1k dot tick!

Bloodwraith
07-19-2008, 04:30 PM
BETA is now live.
I added some links for WotLK info into my first post.

Painapple
07-19-2008, 07:20 PM
I'm picking that shit up, that AoE Bleed effect plus imp. Blood Frenzy is gonna pwn

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=LVhhkGboghdfbstVxzu0x)

my future spec =D

Feeling that you can go rather deep in the arms tree and now get a full 5/5 flurry.

Unrelenting Assult= guessing we won't ever see a rogue pop evasion again.

MS and Bt, anyone? =p

If you're not lacking in rage I say gogo!

Btw, BT recieved quite the buff going from 30 health per successful swing to 1.5% of your max health per successful swing. Oo

Ukyo
07-19-2008, 11:35 PM
Btw, BT recieved quite the buff going from 30 health per successful swing to 1.5% of your max health per successful swing. Oo

mainly because the heal itself was low for PvP now, so that way they make Fury a viable tree for PvP (i'm so trying fury in arenas as soon as i hit 80 lol)

Painapple
07-20-2008, 05:43 AM
Blizzard is switching Shield Slam to Vigilance, and they're making Shield Slam trainable, plus they're switching the damage modifier to hit harder the more AP the warrior has (same way as Thunder Clap)

Not finding the info that dmg scales with ap, tooltip says "modified by shield block value..."

what am I missing?

Sbw increased by ap? Oo

Bloodwraith
07-20-2008, 01:35 PM
Bladestorm will probably not be taken by me, I found this on warrior forums:

1. It does not break CC ( IE poly cyclone)
2. You can No rage during the whirling period.
3. You can't Reapply MS.
4. You can't reapply Hamstring.
5. You can EASILY run away from it because you whirl around at WALKING speed.
6. You can be disarmed while whirling around
7. You give up all essential pvp tools for it. (IE you lose Deathwish,enrage, and weapon mastery(which also means you lose and weapon Enchant on your 2h because you all want to be disarmed for 10 seconds while whirling around for 4.5?

I'm thinking about MS/BT build, that is, if they don't share CD.

Ukyo
07-20-2008, 06:56 PM
Not finding the info that dmg scales with ap, tooltip says "modified by shield block value..."

what am I missing?

Sbw increased by ap? Oo

Yeah i saw that they fixed that now, so no Shield Slam dispel in pvp as fury =(

and about disarm you can pick up Bladestorm and Weapon Mastery, so your disarm is gonna last 5 seconds anyway.

As my spec goes, i was thinking something like this might be decent for PvP/PvE: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=LZVVzuLxRVuoxstbId0xh)

Painapple
07-21-2008, 03:23 AM
I'd personally favor the defensive pts going into arms for imp overpower and deep wounds. :)

Kazeyonoma
07-21-2008, 09:09 AM
hrm, right now i'm concerned about deathwish no longer breaking fears.

Currently in the game, there is only 1 cc that doesn't break on damage, lasts more than 5 seconds, and allows damage to go through, and that's fear. Currently anyone who isn't a warrior knows the power of fears. A couple of fears back to back and trinkets being down is death to any healer. In PvP it is easily the most powerful cc due to the above mentioned things. All other forms of cc have a major drawback to them, mainly that damage breaks them, but nothing stops fear from taking a player from 80% to 25% in 1 untrinketed fear. Warriors have been able to deal with this better than others due to deathwish, but now that it doesn't break fear, anytime we're caught out of zerker stance, or 20 seconds out of every 30 second rotation, we'll be fearable. I see this as a huge nerf to warriors. We're one of the few classes who are able to stick to warlocks in pvp due to our numerous fear breaks. This will put them back at the level they were in pre-bc and early tbc.

Bloodwraith
07-21-2008, 01:58 PM
Just asked around on warrior forums and found that MS and BT share a CD so that's worthless due the MS needing to stay up.

And yeah Kaz Deathwish nerf is gonna hurt us =\

Bloodwraith
07-21-2008, 02:10 PM
Yeah i saw that they fixed that now, so no Shield Slam dispel in pvp as fury =(

and about disarm you can pick up Bladestorm and Weapon Mastery, so your disarm is gonna last 5 seconds anyway.

As my spec goes, i was thinking something like this might be decent for PvP/PvE: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=LZVVzuLxRVuoxstbId0xh)

You can't pick up both bladestorm(51 in arms) and weapon mastery(21-22 in Fury)

EDIT: I added my guess at level 80 pvp spec and opinions on some of the new spells/talents/changes to my first post. What do you guys think?

Painapple
07-21-2008, 04:17 PM
You can't pick up both bladestorm(51 in arms) and weapon mastery(21-22 in Fury)

EDIT: I added my guess at level 80 pvp spec and opinions on some of the new spells/talents/changes to my first post. What do you guys think?

Feels like a nice 5v5 spec, the one you posted. I'd probably go differently if 2v2 is your cup of tea.

DW nerf is bad, agreed.

Having MS and BT on same cd is also a set back, but for me playing mostly 2v2 I wouldn't mind having both with all the double dps running around.

Ukyo
07-21-2008, 05:41 PM
You can't pick up both bladestorm(51 in arms) and weapon mastery(21-22 in Fury)


Oh right, wth was i thinking lol, i guess it's time to dust off my steelgrip gauntlets xD

Kruthel
07-22-2008, 03:28 AM
You can't pick up both bladestorm(51 in arms) and weapon mastery(21-22 in Fury)

EDIT: I added my guess at level 80 pvp spec and opinions on some of the new spells/talents/changes to my first post. What do you guys think?

So you aren't keen on Sudden Death? I can see that it would leave you starved whenever it procs I suppose, is that why you left it out?

Other than that, thats probably what I'll be trying in Wrath. Except I'm a sucker for Tac Mastery :P

Bloodwraith
07-22-2008, 05:02 AM
So you aren't keen on Sudden Death? I can see that it would leave you starved whenever it procs I suppose, is that why you left it out?

Other than that, thats probably what I'll be trying in Wrath. Except I'm a sucker for Tac Mastery :P

Yeah unless I went out and tested that it wouldn't starve you in arenas (keeping you from having MS/hamstring/Sunders Up) then I doubt I'd want to take it.

You'd still take tactical mastery even though spell reflect rage cost is reduced to 15 rage?

Kruthel
07-23-2008, 01:16 AM
Ah yes, good point :). I suppose only one point in it would suffice for instant disarms and spell reflects, thats quite handy actually.

ebs2002
07-23-2008, 09:05 AM
You'd still take tactical mastery even though spell reflect rage cost is reduced to 15 rage?

OMG, that makes me sooo happy!

Kazeyonoma
07-23-2008, 10:05 AM
O_o, that's hawt. weird ass xx/xx/1 builds here we come

like this:
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=LVhhdIboghdbbZE0zm0gRVZ0o)

Bloodwraith
07-23-2008, 04:00 PM
I changed the OP to an article that I have typed up in admin, for tankspot news at some point. Since the majority of you guys can't see it there, I thought I'd bring it here so I could get some feedback from PvPer's.

Kruthel
07-24-2008, 12:34 AM
Looks like pvp prot will become viable now too perhaps with the ap modifiers on most prot moves too. has anyone on the beta tried it out to see what its actually like?

Bloodwraith
07-25-2008, 07:32 PM
I wish I had beta =P

This occured to me just now (Correct my math if it's wrong):

"Attempt to finish off a wounded foe, causing 1665 damage and converting each extra point of rage into 38 additional damage. Only usable on enemies that have less than 20% health."

That is the highest rank on Beta right now.

You have Imp execute, 2/2 impale, you have enrage on you, you use execute with a full bar of rage, crit, and you have some armor pen. After that you subtract damage reduction from armor and you get your answer.

1665+(90*38)= 5085

5085*1.25= 6356.25

6356.25*2.2= 13983.75

13983.75-opponents damage reduction from armor (And factor in armor pen)

Executes might really be "OVER 9000!?!?!?", regardless, execute will be hitting like a truck.

Ukyo
07-25-2008, 08:39 PM
rofl! xD

but now you can already hit over 9000 with an execute crit, though my ultimate crit has been around 8000

Bloodwraith
07-26-2008, 01:10 PM
rofl! xD

but now you can already hit over 9000 with an execute crit, though my ultimate crit has been around 8000

Yeah around 8k is my max too.

For the current execute it would be:

"Attempt to finish off a wounded foe, causing 925 damage and converting each extra point of rage into 21 additional damage. Only usable on enemies that have less than 20% health."

925+(90*21)= 2815

2815*1.25= 3518.75

3518.75*2.2= 7741.25

7741.25-Opponents damage reduction from armor (And factor in armor pen)

Ukyo
07-26-2008, 07:41 PM
Sucks for pvp though that we hit for 8k only if the opponent's hp is lower than 20%, when basically that's like 2k health at most xP

Bloodwraith
07-26-2008, 08:05 PM
I had a funny thing happen once in AV. I was against a priest, he was low at the beginning I was just planning to pick him off for some easy honor. He droppped to 20% and I had been saving rage up. He landed a 5k+ heal right as I executed and hit 7k+ on him and killed him through his heal lol.

ebs2002
07-26-2008, 08:24 PM
3518.75*2.2= 7741.25 (Then armor pen)

7741.25 (Then armor pen)- Oppenents damage reduction from armor.

Not to be nit-picky, but armor pen doesn't increase the damage of 7741. It decreases the reduction from armor. If you have 1k armor pen, and your opponent has 4k armor, their damage reduction is based on 4k-1k=3k armor.

7741 is the theoretical max damage you can do with execute, assuming that your opponent has less armor than you have armor pen.

Bloodwraith
07-26-2008, 08:39 PM
Not to be nit-picky, but armor pen doesn't increase the damage of 7741. It decreases the reduction from armor. If you have 1k armor pen, and your opponent has 4k armor, their damage reduction is based on 4k-1k=3k armor.

7741 is the theoretical max damage you can do with execute, assuming that your opponent has less armor than you have armor pen.

Oh ok, I went back and changed it. That makes more sense, idk what I was thinking before.

Kazeyonoma
07-28-2008, 09:11 AM
Not to be nit-picky, but armor pen doesn't increase the damage of 7741. It decreases the reduction from armor. If you have 1k armor pen, and your opponent has 4k armor, their damage reduction is based on 4k-1k=3k armor.

7741 is the theoretical max damage you can do with execute, assuming that your opponent has less armor than you have armor pen.

Barring any additional buffs/debuffs (4% blood frenzy, enemy in zerker stance with deathwish popped, you have berserker buff from BG, etc). ;] That's how you break the 7.7k mark currently =]

ebs2002
07-28-2008, 09:16 AM
Well yes, Kaze :-p You also forgot the biggest one: enemy has been holding the flag for 5mins in WSG!

Bloodwraith
07-28-2008, 10:14 AM
Well yes, Kaze :-p You also forgot the biggest one: enemy has been holding the flag for 5mins in WSG!

Thats the best one :D

Kazeyonoma
07-28-2008, 10:49 AM
16k execute on that once baby, forgot to screenshot though =(

I'm notorious for running for berserking buffs in WSG. Charge out the gate... "Race you to Berserking Buff...." "your on!" "MINEEEEEEEEEEEEEE" " KILLll!!!" "help with FC?" "NEVER!!!!!"

That's about how my wsg's go lol =P

So how goes your pvp world Bloodwraith, I have yet to duel you, and the longer you wait, the more s4 i pick up.... 10-0 last night in 3v3s boomkin/rogue/war >;] will have s4 helm after next week, and probably bracers too, full s4 minus shoulders and weapons. 36.33% unbuffed crit right now in zerker with swords. ;]

Bloodwraith
07-28-2008, 11:01 AM
16k execute on that once baby, forgot to screenshot though =(

I'm notorious for running for berserking buffs in WSG. Charge out the gate... "Race you to Berserking Buff...." "your on!" "MINEEEEEEEEEEEEEE" " KILLll!!!" "help with FC?" "NEVER!!!!!"

That's about how my wsg's go lol =P

So how goes your pvp world Bloodwraith, I have yet to duel you, and the longer you wait, the more s4 i pick up.... 10-0 last night in 3v3s boomkin/rogue/war >;] will have s4 helm after next week, and probably bracers too, full s4 minus shoulders and weapons. 36.33% unbuffed crit right now in zerker with swords. ;]

I'll be on around 6-9 server time tonight, I'll try to check into chatbox if I'm not busy.

Yeah thats how my WSG's go too, I grab zerker then run to their GY =D

Triple DPS 3's? That must be pretty fun.

Next tuesday I'll have the points for helm, and honor for boots. Just need to push the personal rating. I have all the rest of my guadian's peices so I'm done with honor for the expansion which is nice. I've been doing dailes/grinding and this morning I bought some +1- str epic gems for my brutal chest. I'm sitting on 3/5 S4 at the moment, but I know me and my druid can hit 1700 if we play enough and don't run into rediculous comps. (*glares at Disc Priest and SL/SL Warlock*). That druid basically prefers playing games with me, which is nice. No more finding a druid then they jsut drop out on you after a session or two. He is undergeared, but he'll grab brutal chest tomorrow and hopefully some other upgrades. My 3's basically ran in RPM 1 times in a row and lost back down, and ten they all just left =P. So basically I need to put together a 3's and 5's team. With the right comp in 5's I think I could hit 1700 easy, but it's hard to put together a team when your "PvP" guild sucks, and trade chat is full of "Anal [Pain Supression]" and other junk that people do for hours on end, clogging up trade channel.

How are you liking Korgath? And how are your arenas going?

Kazeyonoma
07-28-2008, 11:18 AM
I'll try to be on, but i'm pretty tired from last night's 2am gaming fest, and g/f had to study late, we might just crash early.

WSG is fun like that, especially with a druid, haha.

We're a 2.5 dps team, the boomkin is actually restokin (34/0/27) and he'll probably go back to 11/11/39 once we get more serious we were just playing for points last night, and it worked out well. He normally just heals but is able to do so in moonkin form for great mitigation and dreamstate = tons of mana regen. The occasional wrath bomb helps when we're burning a target too so. ;]

Yeh, I'm hoping to get my 12k honor this week slowly and be done with that for now, then I gotta start the long arduous farm for 40k honor for the epic trinket, with dropping the 15 resil chest enchant and my 5str/4resil gem my resil is sitting at 374, I'd like that back in the 390s with the epic pvp trinket. Once that's done though I pray to go I don't have to touch another bg for a while, that 40k bgfest will probably break me.

I need to do dailies so I can respec to tank now and then, I miss it, but the gold also helps fund epic gems indeed. Badges help in that department too. I'm 3/5 s4 also, hoping to grab the helm by next week due to points, then i'll be full s4 minus shoulder/weapon, oh and throwing weapon but that'll come last. I'm glad I'm already reaching this point early on in the season, trying to fight for gear at the end and not having any to carry over sucks. Shadow Comp is tough, I feel ya, try finding a 3rd partner to do 3s with, warlock is good but so is a rogue or disc priest. HAHA, Anal [Attack] I start that every time I sign onto the game. My apologies LOL. Yeh man, try to get a 5s going, I've never been able to get a steady 5s team. My best was a 10-0 run as Double MS warr Double Frost Mage Resto Druid. we'd lock down 3 players, pick 1 and INSTAGIB. it was amazing. But the mages disappeared, druid went back feral, and me and the war just sat around staring at each other. =P

I'm loving Korgath, it feels like home already because my main friends and pvp partners are here, pugs are just as retarted, and although I never get to do 25 mans, I never did anyways, and my new guild does back runs of pre-bc stuff, which I loved doing on Akama and feared there'd be no one to do it with here, turns out MY GUILD does it, haha.

Bloodwraith
07-28-2008, 11:48 AM
No rush on the duel, whenever you want to mess around is cool.

Yeah once me and a resto druid had a fight against 2 feral druids and a boomkin for an entire WSG game. It was hilarious because I had so much damage, but no killing blows, because they kept travel forming away and healing themselves.

Oh restokin make a bit more sense =P

I farmed the trinket before end of the season since I figured I would need it in the long run.

It seems alliance usually win AV(When I'm on anyway) so have fun with that honor grind =\

yeah thrown after helm for me, I'd like to say I'm saving for S3/S4 weapon but until my partners get betetr gear, or I find betetr geared partners we are going to hit a wall with our rating.

The Anal stuff was on the warrior forums yesterday lol.

5's is the one team I've really been competetive with. Me/holy pally/disc priest/ele shaman/ MM hunter hit 1780 without a lot of work. But the priest had a bad connection, and that cost us some games. Then ele shaman left for his friends team, and pally quit the game. Pissed me off to no ends but I had no control over it.

Yeah I xferred here from altar of storms. The second I logged on the guy in front of me had glaives and the guy above me was on pheonix mount and I was just in awe. It's a better server than my last thats for sure. When I orignally came I xferred over with a group of PvP'ers from that server but when we all got here and in one guild, they never recruited so basically everyone just left and we're all scattered across the server in random guilds.

Oh btw I'm on my new coomp finally. It rocks. I wrote my first blog about it:

http://www.tankspot.com/forums/blogs/bloodwraith/1069-new-computer.html

Painapple
07-31-2008, 10:02 PM
Death wish nerf makes wotf>escape artist? Oo

Bloodwraith
08-01-2008, 08:59 AM
I'm a night elf so I guess I'm going to be in trouble =\

Schleppy
08-01-2008, 10:36 AM
I think the DW change makes it so warriors that are not UD have to now consider when to use their trinket instead of simply knowing they could save it to break something other then fear. After this change goes live you will have to choose either running around like a jackass for 8 seconds ticking to death but being able to break that root that comes immeadiately after, or breaking the fear but then being rooted.

I'm an UD warrior so the number of times I had to rely on my trinket or DW to break fear I can count on 1 hand, but that change is defintely a huge nerf to any warrior that isnt UD. Does that mean UD warriors will be the only "fearless combatants" left?

Bloodwraith
08-01-2008, 02:31 PM
I would seem so =\

Btw I saw this on worldofraids:

1% of resil @ lvl 70 = 39.42308044 resilience
1% of resil @ lvl 80 = 81.97497559 reslience

People are going to be packing a ton of resil or else resil will be to a lesser degree.

Schleppy
08-01-2008, 05:14 PM
I'm going to guess stuff will pack a ton of res. Since they have combined a lot of the stats that means they probably had to re-allocate what things "cost" in the item budget for their gear-creator.

So I'm guessing they lowered what Str/AP cost in the item budget, and raised hit and crit since they are universal stats now and raised spellpower's itemization, they had a bit of their budget left over so they just raised the res cap and dumped the leftover budget points into res. Remember, they have sworn up and down there will be no dramatic sta change this time around like last time.

It also has the added affect of making any pve gear less desirable for pvp as you might well need 550-600 res to hit the hard cap which my gut tells me will be much more important then it is now with the ability to enhance abilities with glyphs coming into play.

Bloodwraith
08-02-2008, 09:38 AM
I just read this on world of raids:



PvP

Arenas

Buffs that have 30 seconds or less remaining will be removed once the game starts. However, the mage spell “Invisibility” is not affected by this change.


No more running in with full HoT's for me =\

Bloodwraith
08-08-2008, 06:56 AM
Deep wounds is now rolling.

"Each crit stacks the deep wounds debuff on the target; the more I crit, the higher the deep wounds ticks will be."

S1-nPJ1nnP0

Ukyo
08-08-2008, 07:12 AM
omg wtf bleeding machines inc?

Bloodwraith
08-08-2008, 08:06 AM
looks like it, but it won't be ticking for 4k like in that vid. He used recklessnes.

Kazeyonoma
08-08-2008, 09:03 AM
that's still insane, against a raid boss, that'd be absolutely overpowered, You could stack deepwounds to INCREDIBLE numbers (unless they cap it at x10 or something). By the end of a 5 minute fight he could be ticking for 20k lol.

INcredible though O_o.

And about the comment saying warriors have to "watch" when to break fear. we always did, we just used to have 1 extra way to do it, but not enough rage? that's a full fear, out of zerker stance? that's a full fear, zerker rage on cd? that's a full fear. Like I said, fear has and always will be (unless it is changed) the best cc in the game for pvp because it lasts more than 5 seconds, allows damage to go through, and doesn't share DR's with other ccs. Warriors were the only class that could effectively shut down fear cc, without deathwish, you're basically opening the door to fear classes being OP in arenas (warlocks, priests, deathknights)

Ukyo
08-08-2008, 10:08 AM
Speaking of WotLK skills:


IGo0mnJEFkY

this made me laugh so hard that i think i bursted a lung

Schleppy
08-08-2008, 10:08 AM
Well, for an UD warrior rage was never an issue, and even the dumbest warlock tries something else when you break the first fear instantly with WoTF, pummel the second, and are immune to the third (I love you beserker rage!)

I think DW should be altered to make you immune to fear effects after it's used, but it cannot be used to break fear effects like it can now(assuming you have the rage of course)

Bloodwraith
08-09-2008, 11:23 AM
I'll be updating my original post to the new build this weekend. New arena screenshtos along with changes etc etc :D

Bloodwraith
08-12-2008, 10:39 AM
Updated the first post to the latest build. New pics and vids added too. :D

Kazeyonoma
08-12-2008, 11:06 AM
new pvp build? maybe?! Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=LVbhdfxoghdoroZE0zm0gRMZ0o)

Ukyo
08-12-2008, 11:32 AM
I might be running with something like this: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=LA0hzfxoghdVroZVxzG0xRZ0o)

or maybe this: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=LibhzfZVxzuLxRVuoxst0o)(mainly cuz i wanna fly up in the air and stun people xD)

On another note...

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t103/bloodwraith816/WotLK%20Pics/Lake2.jpg

Is it just me or this reminds you of Van Helsing?

Kazeyonoma
08-12-2008, 01:53 PM
it does... and Heroic Leap across that bridge, GO!

Ukyo
08-12-2008, 03:51 PM
it does... and Heroic Leap across that bridge, GO!

100g says you can't cross it on one jump XD (I bet they're gonna give gargoyles to warlocks just to cross that bridge)

Bloodwraith
08-12-2008, 06:51 PM
What do you guys think of the new arenas? I posted some new Pics of them today.

Btw those vids that are from wegame I'll prolly download and reupload to youtube or soemthing to I can embed into the thread instead of linking em.

Schleppy
08-12-2008, 10:33 PM
My issue is blizzard has stated they want 30 specs to be viable for PvE and PvP, but with the advent of resilence enhancing the power of healing warriors simply cannot pvp without the mortal strike debuff. Anyone remember the old day's when fury was a kick-ass pvp spec? That was back when healing wasn't such an integral part of pvp like it is today. Back in those day's it took 2 or 3 BWL+ geared healers to keep 1 BWL+ warrior alive for more then 10 seconds against 4 or 5 foes.


Fast foward to today where anyone trying to pvp without MS is laughed directly to the graveyard unless they sport a 2k+ rating and even then people assume he just respecced fury but plays as MS. Isn't it time for the whole concept of mortal strike to be redone? Making that debuff available as a T3 ot T4 arms talent allows a few things...

1) All 3 warrior specs to be viable... Want to play prot and try and outlast? you can still keep -50% healing on your opponents. Want to play as fury with a titans grip that doesnt suck? you can still apply the "must have debuff" from a warrior.

2) Allows the arm's tree to be re-worked without having the constraint of having to build the entire tree around a 31 point debuff.

3) To prove the cake is a lie!

Imagine if heroic strike applied the current mortal strike debuff to our target. That would allow a new attack(s) to be introduced that did more damage then MS does now. Let's face it, arms warriors hit hard, but fury warrior hit harder and have better rage generation. Why is that? because the signature move for arms warriors also applies one of, if not the roughest debuff to overcome in the game in it's current state, -50% healing taken. An arm's warrior HAS to do less damage then a fury warrior simply because they get such a strong debuff to place on an opponent that fury warriors do not. The debuff that makes arms warriors so strong in pvp is the same one that makes us to weak in pve compared to other physical dps classes because the debuff is mostly useless in pve, and rogues/hunters can easily apply the same debuff to bosses without "gimping" their personal dps.

I think the only question that needs to be answered about this is, "Will we see more warriors in pvp with the MS debuff then we do now?" If the answer to that question is "no" or "only marginally more" then it should be done.

While certainly there are a few warriors that PvP without that debuff, does anyone really think once would notice more warriors having it since 98% of the warriors that pvp more then what would be classified as "sparingly" currently already spec for the debuff?

Bloodwraith
08-13-2008, 05:15 AM
The debuff that makes arms warriors so strong in pvp is the same one that makes us to weak in pve compared to other physical dps classes because the debuff is mostly useless in pve, and rogues/hunters can easily apply the same debuff to bosses without "gimping" their personal dps.


Well if your're going by the normal slam rotation a mortal strike is going to get in there.



Auto attack --> Slam --> Mortal Strike
Auto attack --> Slam --> Whirlwind
Auto attack --> Slam --> Mortal Strike
Auto attack --> Slam --> Demo Shout/battle shout

Schleppy
08-13-2008, 05:57 AM
Exactly, but the point of using MS in pve isnt for the debuff, it's because the attack that happens to cause the debuff to be applied is the most damaging single target attack an arms warrior has. Now compare the damage an arms warrior does in that rotation's span to a fury warrior in the same span. Not even close to comparable all because of a debuff that is meaningless in pve?

Kazeyonoma
08-13-2008, 09:39 AM
Uhh, Correction, Most damage single target attack an arms warrior has is................................................ ..................


Slam.

And an Arms warrior is in PvE for Blood Frenzy Debuff. That's it.

And I'd like to take note that fury warriors, with the changes to the tree, very well might become viable in PvP, sometimes it's just about making your group makeup work. Teams work without warriors, teams work without hunters and rogues too. How do they make up for the lack of healing debuff?

Ukyo
08-13-2008, 11:10 AM
Regarding the comment about Fury having a better rage generation than Arms, yes, they do, but only because we hit more in a spam of time than an arms warrior, in the time that takes an arms warrior to swing a 3.6 weapon, you've hitted 2 times and you're going for the 3rd strike (compare the rage gen of a 2h Fury warrior with an MS Warrior, and you'll see what i mean)

With the new changes, fury is going to become viable without needing the debuff, since fury was, and it's always been about one thing (at least in pvp): Giving lethal damage before your target even has a chance to heal. It might bring back the old glory that meant to be PvP Fury, but i wouldn't count on it too much.

Schleppy
08-13-2008, 02:33 PM
Kaz what would you say the ratio of mortal strikes to slams are in pvp? Arms in pvp only gets Mortal Strike and some weapon procs, fury on the other hand gets improvements to most of our staple abilities for pvp (WW, flurry, enrage, more AP, etc) Since everyone pvp's seriously (except the guy in the video 1 post down) with Mortal Strike, therefore one must conclude the debuff and weapon procs are worth lowering your damage to get since you have stated it's not an arms warriors most damaging attack. Blizz is making a solid fix to the weapon procs to remove a lot of their "overpoweredness", so all we are left with in arms for pvp is Mortal Strike.



Regarding the comment about Fury having a better rage generation than Arms, yes, they do, but only because we hit more in a spam of time than an arms warrior, in the time that takes an arms warrior to swing a 3.6 weapon, you've hitted 2 times and you're going for the 3rd strike (compare the rage gen of a 2h Fury warrior with an MS Warrior, and you'll see what i mean)

With the new changes, fury is going to become viable without needing the debuff, since fury was, and it's always been about one thing (at least in pvp): Giving lethal damage before your target even has a chance to heal. It might bring back the old glory that meant to be PvP Fury, but i wouldn't count on it too much.


Fury became un-viable the minute they introduced resilence and not one second before, as no fury warrior hits harder then any raid boss and there are plenty of raid bosses a single healer can heal through it's damage. I do not doubt for a minute that everything gear-wise will scale up proportionally at 80, making fury equally as useless then as it is now for PvP.

Back in the old day's of fury glory, the 2 best 2-handed weapons were the hand of Rag, and Asscandy and the only arms warriors that were feared were those with one of those weapons. Fury was great if you didnt have those weapons (or at least Zin'rok or the Untamed Blade) because it was simply impossible to heal someone through the massive damage spikes from crits fury brought to the table and the ability to use high rage moves from their better overall rage intake meant a lot more damage was being put out. Fast foward to today and arms is in the same boat, in the S4 mace and the S3+ sword are the most feared melee weapons in PvP but not everybody is walking around with them, much like the Asscandy and Hand of Rag days. That's not saying warriors with lesser weapons can't be effective as arms in pvp, but they aren't feared quite the same way select few that have those weapons are and they have one of the few tools to combat what resilence brings to the table so of course all healers hate arms warriors. Only today, there is no fury for people to fall back on because of resilence allowing for lesser crits and flattening out the huge damage spikes fury could do, it is quite possible to heal through their damage marginalizing their contribution thus forcing people to do less damage overall to get a single debuff. Make that single debuff available to all types of warriors and you instantly fix the viability of prot and fury in pvp.

Kazeyonoma
08-13-2008, 02:49 PM
wait wait wait:

Exactly, but the point of using MS in pve isnt for the debuff, it's because the attack that happens to cause the debuff to be applied is the most damaging single target attack an arms warrior has. Now compare the damage an arms warrior does in that rotation's span to a fury warrior in the same span. Not even close to comparable all because of a debuff that is meaningless in pve?

Are we not talking about PvE here?

For PvP I slam a decent amount, Probably around the same as Mortal Strike because I'm a fan of imp slam. I agree most pvp'ers don't use it.

But The reason why arms was better wasn't just the debuff. The debuff was huge, yes, but it's the BURST of an arms warrior that wins. It's the BURST that healers can't heal through. Fury is more built around sustained steady damage. it's the drawback of dual wielding 1 handers. Your burst is low, but your overall dps is high. You steadily hit for 500-800 per hit and can keep putting out that damage. Arms is about going 30+ seconds of very little damage (building rage) to BOOM 1.8k white hit, 1.9k Mortal Strike hit, 2k Slam hit, Sword Proc Crit, Execute. In the course of 4 seconds. THAT is why Arms is better for pvp. Not to mention Second Wind helps warriors with more survivability, improved intercept which gives them the ability to stick to targets, and improved hamstring which acts as a mini CC for a class that has only 1 real cc (3min cd fear bomb).

I think you're looking at PvP from the wrong standpoint. There are classes and makeups that are good for steady, consistent damage, and working down people, fury warriors can survive in these environments BUT they lack the utility that an arms warrior brings. THAT is what makes Arms warriors premier pvp warriors and not fury. The switch to Deathwish was another blow because this gave warriors something that is not unattainable for fury warriors who want a realistic fury build.

Schleppy
08-13-2008, 02:55 PM
And I'd like to take note that fury warriors, with the changes to the tree, very well might become viable in PvP, sometimes it's just about making your group makeup work. Teams work without warriors, teams work without hunters and rogues too. How do they make up for the lack of healing debuff?

Actually, depends how you define "Teams work" as to whether this is true or not...

Arena Team Setup Statistics - World of Warcraft Realm History (http://www.realmhistory.net/arena-statistics/team-setup.html) The only team that works without that debuff is druid/lock at the top end. It sure looks like out of the 3000 or so comps at 2k+ rating, only 493 play without that debuff.

If you further check the spec's, found here Arena Spec Statistics - World of Warcraft Realm History (http://www.realmhistory.net/arena-statistics/specs/2v2.html)

you will see Arms warriors make up a minimum of 93% representation at the top end across all the brackets. (fury normally comes across at 0%-6% in any of the brackets, and some lone masochist play's prot in 5's%)


I seriously think it's time to re-evaluate where the - healing debuff comes in the arms tree since that debuff is without question the most important one on teams that work and therefore hopefully make all warrior specs viable in pvp since their goal is "30 specs viable in pvp and pve".

Kazeyonoma
08-13-2008, 03:04 PM
I'm not talking 2v2s, blizzard and a lot of high rated arena teams will tell you that 2v2s are a pretty broken bracket, there's what... 10 good makeups? Out of the possibility of 9 classes*9? rogue/rogue, rogue/mage, rogue/druid, rogue/priest, warrior/sham, warrior/druid, warlock/druid, warlock/priest, hunter/priest, mage/priest ?

There's already a disbalance in 2v2s, it's just a fact, what I was referring to was in 3v3s or 5v5s where you have more players and more comps to make work. If Kazaganthi made a warrior/warrior/priest team go above 1850 I don't see why other fury warrior + debuff teams couldn't work. The primary reason as I explained in my last post that fury warriors are inferior to fury warriors is that they lack a lot of essential pvp abilities that define a warrior in arenas. Imp Hamstring, Imp Intercept, Second Wind, and Burst (2hander, procs, etc)

Schleppy
08-13-2008, 03:12 PM
wait wait wait:


Are we not talking about PvE here? My only point (admittedly I might have muddled it a bit) for PvE is what makes an arms warrior desirable for a raid is another debuff, not their damage compared to any other class 1v1. Blizzard has stated they want to spread more equality across the specs, so you bring your 4/9/24 best players with you and not be tied to requiring specific specs and classes to be sucessfull in pve. Sure you need tanks and healers but they dont want the noticeable difference there is currently between fury and arms, affliction and destruction, fire and frost, etc. Their goal is to remove the "required respec" for people to be able to seemlessly change from pve to pvp or even raiding to grinding. Blizzard did say something about trying to add 2 specs previously, but that talk has died out from blue posts, and they are now talking about the whole "30 specs viable for pve and pvp" thing.


For PvP I slam a decent amount, Probably around the same as Mortal Strike because I'm a fan of imp slam. I agree most pvp'ers don't use it.

But The reason why arms was better wasn't just the debuff. The debuff was huge, yes, but it's the BURST of an arms warrior that wins. It's the BURST that healers can't heal through. Fury is more built around sustained steady damage. it's the drawback of dual wielding 1 handers. Your burst is low, but your overall dps is high. You steadily hit for 500-800 per hit and can keep putting out that damage. Arms is about going 30+ seconds of very little damage (building rage) to BOOM 1.8k white hit, 1.9k Mortal Strike hit, 2k Slam hit, Sword Proc Crit, Execute. In the course of 4 seconds. THAT is why Arms is better for pvp. Not to mention Second Wind helps warriors with more survivability, improved intercept which gives them the ability to stick to targets, and improved hamstring which acts as a mini CC for a class that has only 1 real cc (3min cd fear bomb). no arguement about second wind, and you forgot imp intercept and hamstring as well, which are godly for an arms warrior. Resilence is what kills fury warriors, and the MS debuff is the only means for someone to combat resilence.



I think you're looking at PvP from the wrong standpoint. There are classes and makeups that are good for steady, consistent damage, and working down people, fury warriors can survive in these environments BUT they lack the utility that an arms warrior brings. THAT is what makes Arms warriors premier pvp warriors and not fury. The switch to Deathwish was another blow because this gave warriors something that is not unattainable for fury warriors who want a realistic fury build. I guess we have to agree to disagree, because I believe the - healing debuff is what makes arms the premier pvp spec as that debuff is the only means to combat what resilence added to the game which was healing in pvp. Adding 12.5% more crits to your attacks and 25% more critical damage is a pretty hefty bump which would take us back to the old day's where healing in pvp tended to be an exercise in futility.

Schleppy
08-13-2008, 03:13 PM
I'm not talking 2v2s, blizzard and a lot of high rated arena teams will tell you that 2v2s are a pretty broken bracket, there's what... 10 good makeups? Out of the possibility of 9 classes*9? rogue/rogue, rogue/mage, rogue/druid, rogue/priest, warrior/sham, warrior/druid, warlock/druid, warlock/priest, hunter/priest, mage/priest ?

There's already a disbalance in 2v2s, it's just a fact, what I was referring to was in 3v3s or 5v5s where you have more players and more comps to make work. If Kazaganthi made a warrior/warrior/priest team go above 1850 I don't see why other fury warrior + debuff teams couldn't work. The primary reason as I explained in my last post that fury warriors are inferior to fury warriors is that they lack a lot of essential pvp abilities that define a warrior in arenas. Imp Hamstring, Imp Intercept, Second Wind, and Burst (2hander, procs, etc)


If you disregard 2v2's for your correct reasoning, then that - healing debuff is the MOST important one, as it is the only common ground between every team in 3v3 and 5v5.

Bloodwraith
08-13-2008, 04:31 PM
When fury was king of PvP there were no arena's back then or PvP gear. It probably won't ever go back to the way it was because arms brings more utility to the team than a fury warrior does, and the entire pvp system has changed. As it stands arms warrior are a main part in the majority of normal comps.

Kazeyonoma
08-13-2008, 04:50 PM
no arguement about second wind, and you forgot imp intercept and hamstring as well, which are godly for an arms warrior. Resilence is what kills fury warriors, and the MS debuff is the only means for someone to combat resilence.
I didn't forget imp intercept and hamstring, i mentioned them further down in the quote you used.




I guess we have to agree to disagree, because I believe the - healing debuff is what makes arms the premier pvp spec as that debuff is the only means to combat what resilence added to the game which was healing in pvp. Adding 12.5% more crits to your attacks and 25% more critical damage is a pretty hefty bump which would take us back to the old day's where healing in pvp tended to be an exercise in futility.

There's no doubt that the healing debuff is important, it is, and there are teams that work without it but admittedly, the ones with it are better, but again, there are options, you can run with an arms warrior to put it up for you, you can run with a rogue who can stack it, or a hunter who can cast it. It's all about your team makeup at the end of the day. I think with dual wielding 2handers and heroic leap to bridge the gap between imp intercept, and further increase your ability to burst, it'll be a matter of rage generation at that point.

Bloodwraith
08-13-2008, 06:35 PM
Another new build is coming out on beta


We will be taking down the Beta realms at 3:30PM Pacific time today August 13th 2008 to update to the latest build.

We expect this process to take from six to eight hours.

Thank you for your patience!

Schleppy
08-13-2008, 08:53 PM
When fury was king of PvP there were no arena's back then or PvP gear. It probably won't ever go back to the way it was because arms brings more utility to the team than a fury warrior does, and the entire pvp system has changed. As it stands arms warrior are a main part in the majority of normal comps.

It doesnt have to go back to the way it was, but something needs to be done as the entire concept of fury goes against the way pvp plays out currently. PvP currenttly is about burst damage and control, fury grants neither. Imagine a 3 point talent in the 4th tier of arms that gave an 8%, 17% and 25% healing debuff to heroic strike and another talent further down the tree that gave the other 25% to only arms warriors. That way fury warriors can easily pick up 25% healing debuff, which just might be what makes them useful again in pvp on their own merits.

Bloodwraith
08-14-2008, 06:08 AM
This was posted by Ghostcrawler on the beta forums about DPS getting some attention.


I know I have been spending most of my time on tanking issues. It's hard to be everywhere at once. I'm sure the casters feel neglected too. :(

As you guys know, the Rage mechanic is cool but very sensitive to changes. It's surprisingly easy to make warriors Rage-starved or Rage-infinite so we tend to tread carefully. But here are a few random thoughts.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q u o t e:
1) Heroic leap and Bladestorm are very awkward to use, especially in PVP, nigh unusable right now. Are there plans to make these stronger, or at least more user friendly?
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Totally. We like the basic talents, so the rest is just getting the tuning right and fixing all the bugs. Heroic Leap will probably be trickier just because it has to handle physics and obstructions.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q u o t e:
2) Titan's Grip is mathematically pretty terrible right now and severely devalues attack power for a fury warrior using it. It does almost universally less DPS than a one handed weapon fury build.
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The design is for Titan's Grip to be a dps increase. It's easy to make it too much of an increase, and we may be being too cautious with the numbers at the moment. But when we talk about Lich King, we are assuming most Fury warriors are using two-handers. It's not supposed to be hard decision.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q u o t e:
3) Most talents beyond Tier 3 in arms are staggeringly bad for PVE right now, with the exception of blood frenzy. Is this intended to balance blood frenzy? Will we see any improvements here? Do you intend to go the route of feral with arms and build multiple effects onto talents to give them PVP/PVE usefulness the way feral gets DPS/tanking talents?
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Given plenty of time, we would love to sprinkle PvP, PvE and tanking talents all throughout the trees. There are definitely some lame talents at the moment (some old, some new), and we are going to try to get to them all. Blood Frenzy itself is going to be on the back-burner until we resolve how we're going to handle raid stacking. It isn't the intention that Arms gets to raid and Fury goes home.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q u o t e:
4) The changes to windfury and sword specialization have destroyed the slam rotation for arms in terms of DPS viability. Arms warriors simply don't have the rage for a full rotation without them, even specing to endless rage and anger management. We're in a very similar state now to ret paladins live, enough or close to enough skills to provide powerful damage output but hamstrung by resource limitations, are there any plans to fix that? Judgments of the wise was a brilliant fix, any chance we could see something similar in arms to improve PVE DPS?
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Slam is intended to be an attractive button. I think it just needs a little attention now that the extra attacks are under control now.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q u o t e:
5) Fury's top end talents ignore PVE DPS almost entirely in their current form, TG while cool is a spec for burst over sustained damage and has the same rage issues that arms does only more severe with reduced attack speed and increased miss chance. Heroic leap does very little damage and the stun effect is not useful in dungeon or raid settings so its almost exclusively a PVP talent (its targeting issues not withstanding). Bloodsurge and Furious Resolve are workable but the other new talents don't add a lot to fury and quite honestly you'll likely see fury raiders as 16/47/8 or something similar, keeping their exact old build plus bloodsurge or furious resolve, taking advantage of the better impale/deep wounds placements and grabbing improved bloodrage, tactical mastery, and Incite out of prot. Is that intended? Do the devs thing fury was in a good spot in TBC? Do they think we need a step up? or a step down?
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There were certainly Fury warriors doing fine dps in BC, but that might have been in spite of and not because of the tree. I don't think anyone here would disagree with your analysis. We're working on the talents. The feedback from the warrior community, while occasionally (and sometimes understandably) bitter, has been helpful.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q u o t e:
I think a 20% down to 0% haste penalty for TG will make it a stellar talent at high end gear with better returns coming from one handers until a fair bit of hit rating and haste are acquired to smooth out the rage, 21/50/0 seems like a good raid build with that change, maxing out TG and picking up impale/deep wounds and 2 hander spec out of arms.
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It's still a little odd that 1 talent point gets you the dual-wielding and the others just improve it, but maybe that's workable. We'll know soon enough. We love the idea of the talent though. It is one of those that gets noticed a lot by someone just coming to LK.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q u o t e:
6) you've mentioned balancing blood frenzy in arms against the personal DPS of fury. Have you considered adding a buff of similar magnitude to deep fury? Something like 3% crit or haste added to battle shout, or similar? Such that you could equalize the personal DPS potential of the two trees without making arms warriors clearly superior in raids.
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Yes. We wanted to make Arms as attractive as Fury for raids, but we probably tipped the scales too far. We're currently discussing whether it's okay for any class or spec to bring no real synergy to a group other than mad dps. But granting buffs to traditional high dps classes might also mean their dps needs to come down a little in proportion to everyone else.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q u o t e:
7) Can we add prot's passive expertise talent back on incite to help out DPS warriors even more by letting them pick up some expertise for a minor prot splash? (sorry, I have to bring up the expertise in every thread, it being gone really bothers me)
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We weren't trying to screw anyone out of Expertise by removing Defiance. It was intended to just be a buff. We'll see if we can work Expertise back in somewhere.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q u o t e:
Honestly we'd appreciate any insight (no pun intended) you can give us on DPS specs.

I (we I'm sure) appreciate all the feedback you've given to prot warriors and the time you've taken to listen to our concerns, but I think its time to share some love with my fellow warriors who prefer the shiny white and yellow numbers to the big red ones.
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While I have a soft spot for tanks, I try not to play favorites. I wish I could spend more time in all the forums than I do. But the CMs and many on the dev team do read the forums every day. We can't always respond, because it takes time to craft words in a way that doesn't make us sound ignorant and doesn't scare anyone. Blue posts tend to get quoted a lot. :)

Bloodwraith
08-14-2008, 08:13 AM
It doesnt have to go back to the way it was, but something needs to be done as the entire concept of fury goes against the way pvp plays out currently. PvP currenttly is about burst damage and control, fury grants neither. Imagine a 3 point talent in the 4th tier of arms that gave an 8%, 17% and 25% healing debuff to heroic strike and another talent further down the tree that gave the other 25% to only arms warriors. That way fury warriors can easily pick up 25% healing debuff, which just might be what makes them useful again in pvp on their own merits.

I don't think they would use heroic strike. Ir's not instant and it consumes your next swing.

Ukyo
08-14-2008, 02:35 PM
Blue posts tend to get quoted a lot.

looks like he's right :B

nice info blood, thanks :D

Bloodwraith
08-14-2008, 03:44 PM
I found this model on the wotlk wiki, I think it looks pretty cool

http://4.53.50.43/~wotlk/bnm/pl_images/133.jpg

Kazeyonoma
08-14-2008, 04:00 PM
I like the warglaive one better.

LOL

That is pretty sweet looking though. Emo black lawlz.

And BW, when you gonna duel me fool!

Bloodwraith
08-14-2008, 04:18 PM
You're always at work and I never play late QQ

You waited too long though "I HAVE TEH STUNHERALD NOWWW!?!?!?!!"

Ukyo
08-14-2008, 05:45 PM
what's that model from, warlock T8? :P

Bloodwraith
08-14-2008, 06:10 PM
lol

Painapple
08-15-2008, 05:28 AM
Seems to be Death Knight T7


Images - WotlkWiki - Wrath of the Lich King Information (http://wotlkwiki.info/index.php/Images#tab=Weapon.2FArmor_Models)

Ukyo
08-15-2008, 12:59 PM
http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/3466/platedungeon1de2.jpg

OMG i always wanted to use the Grand Marshall Shoulders *O* (the shields from utgarde keep look awesome, i might reroll prot just to use them :O)

Schleppy
08-18-2008, 09:29 AM
Lets talk about safeguard. This could be the 51 point talent in fury and it would instantly convert fury to equal status to arms for pvp all my previous discussions about the - healing debuff aside....

100% chance to remove all movement imparing effects when you use charge/intercept/intervene... and it's 40 points down the prot tree? lolwut?

Kazeyonoma
08-18-2008, 09:32 AM
I agree, I think that safeguard is there to try to provide prot some pvp options (since some people think this is something we should have). I love prot pvp but I think that this talent put into the fury tree really would give it a huge edge. Lots of damage, potential huge burst if you go TG, Heroic Leap to make up for no imp intercept, AND allowing you to break movement impairing effects with our charges would be great.. We'd give up our Mortal Strike but make us better at keeping on the target, something that Fury lacks right now due to no imp intercept or imp hamstring. I could see it working.

Schleppy
08-18-2008, 09:48 AM
Well, I can totally understand them arranging the talents so you couldnt get imp intercept and safeguard, those 2 talents together would make you basically un-kitable/un-snareable/un-rootable especially when combined with second wind.

If they want prot to be viable for pvp, put a talent deep in prot tree that gives a 10% damage increase in all stances. Imagine a prot warrior using shield slam in zerker stance and pvp gear with the huge amounts of strength, talents to increase SS's damage, and the new str=sbv formula and a bonus 10% damage from a prot talent????

It would be a great pvp or pve talent, giving a flat 10% damage increase in all stances deep in the prot tree.

Ukyo
08-18-2008, 01:10 PM
I'd switch Heroic Leap to remove all movement imparing effect, that way, we won't have to worry much about the aiming of the jump XD!!!!


To avoid a 2nd post, i just wondered... Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=LGbhzfhZVxzq0xRVubxst0o)

With titan grip, would it raise the damage of both weapons or it stops applying to dual wield 2h?

Painapple
08-18-2008, 04:12 PM
I'd switch Heroic Leap to remove all movement imparing effect, that way, we won't have to worry much about the aiming of the jump XD!!!!


To avoid a 2nd post, i just wondered... Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=LGbhzfhZVxzq0xRVubxst0o)

With titan grip, would it raise the damage of both weapons or it stops applying to dual wield 2h?

I would assume it applies, I was thinking about dual wielding with imp. one handed specialization:eek:

Also, I personally hope they don't add a mouse targeting mechanism to heroic leap, I wouldn't be able to use it effectively with my Kaz steering... ><

Ukyo
08-18-2008, 07:19 PM
From what i've seen from some videos, it looks like it's a crappy intercept mechanism, like you have a target, and the server sends you the location of your target, you jump, and if your target moved, you won't stun him and drop in his former location...

Noraxe
08-20-2008, 01:42 AM
From what i've seen from some videos, it looks like it's a crappy intercept mechanism, like you have a target, and the server sends you the location of your target, you jump, and if your target moved, you won't stun him and drop in his former location...

So kinda like a bugged shadowstep? ^^
Couldnt see anywhere if the target needs to be in line of sight or if you had to have a path to it(kinda like the old intercept/charge/intervene bug in the flag rooms). I would see many using this to get to the annoying casters on balcony, if people went fury pvp ofc.

Schleppy
08-20-2008, 11:13 AM
It's a leap, you better be able to jump on a balcony as long as it's in range

Bloodwraith
08-21-2008, 05:14 AM
I added 3 new vids to the original thread. 1 for the new BG, and 2 for Lake wintergrasp. They were orignally only linked to but I decided to put them on vimeo :D

EDIT: The new BG is playable on beta so I added some gameplay screenshots to it's section.

Kazeyonoma
08-21-2008, 09:12 AM
One interesting thing to think about is the deep wounds change. If it is true that it continually rolls. And a fury warrior still specs at least 17 points into arms to get impale and deep wounds. Wouldn't a fury warrior stack so many crits continously that the #s will reach enormous amounts (great!) but be an uncontrollable threat push? I mean, I could see my threat hitting 80% and say whoa slow down... just auto attack.... Dot tick for 4k, uhh... dot tick for 4k. uh oh... Aggro. THREAT WIPE BUTTON! *dies* Ahhh. I hit the button on time =P

Ukyo
08-21-2008, 11:31 AM
Yeah, but the good thing is that fury has 2 aggro reducing talents now, and we only need 16 points to get impale and deep wounds now =D

Bloodwraith
08-21-2008, 04:55 PM
The beta servers are getting new build atm, these seem to be the changes for warriors:

# Mace Specialization (Arms) no longer stuns enemies, and now generates 10 rage.
# Enrage (Fury) now increases damage done by 3/6/9/12/15%, limitation on number of attacks removed.
# Improved Charge (Arms) now generates 5/10 rage.
# Improved Sunder Armor (Protection) renamed Puncture.
# Shield Wall now reduces all damage taken by 60% for 12 seconds, cooldown reduced to 5 minutes.
# Thunder Clap damage increased, cooldown increased.

I guess their "upcoming warrior changes" were just nerfs on key PvP abilities. GG

Kazeyonoma
08-21-2008, 05:00 PM
Wow... WOW... the change to mace spec makes it absolutely useless now. TOTALLY and UTTERLY useless... 10 rage... big fucken whoop. I can sword proc and generate more than that, or crit with axes and generate way more than that. That's fucken ridiculous.

15% is bullshit too. I don't care if there was a limited # of hits, you could only swing so fast anyways. wth is the point of this. So i can hit All my instant attacks, and white hits fire and.... sit for 3.6 seconds while the buff fades and I can't hit another button? And this makes me lose 10% damage? Failure. Absolute failure.

Who uses improved Charge... A hunter, warlock, or mage, can hit me from outside my range of charge anyways, so spending 2 points on a "potential 5/10 rage" only when I'm out of combat which rarely happens in pvp. Useless.

WOOT RENAMED I.S.A.

Well at least Shield Wall seems to have slightly been buffed to be advantageous over the other classes shield wall effects.

Higher CD on Tclap? Part of the problem with Tclap was that you had to wait 6 seconds to fire off another one. now they're making it have more damage and take longer to cooldown. That's awesome i guess if you tank exactly 4 mobs. But if you have more than that (where warriors always had trouble over the other classes) it's gotten worse. it doesn't matter that the 4 you tclap will stick to you harder. Those weren't the ones that ran, it was the other #5-6-7 mobs that you couldn't tclap and had to wait 6 seconds to try to tclap those ones that caused the problems. Sigh... Blizzard is disappointing me despite me trying to stay on their side throughout the "zomg warriors suck now" threads. cmon Blizz prove me wrong yet.


(I had to cut my post short earlier because Windows Auto Update forced a restart on me and only gave me 50 seconds).

Ukyo
08-21-2008, 09:07 PM
I guess i'll be playing my lock on WotLK =/

-edit-

this could be the reason of the enrage nerf:

Enraged Assault:
A furious assault that consumes an Enrage effect on the warrior and attacks with all weapons. Can only be used while Enraged.
(Requires Melee Weapon, 15 Rage, Instant, 5 yd Range)

Kazeyonoma
08-21-2008, 10:07 PM
How much damage does it do and is it gonna replace the fact that ALL of my attacks during the 25% buff (okay 3 attacks but still) hit for 25% harder? I lose 10% of my buff just so I can do some extra skill? That's situationally usable. Wait sounds like Rampage! or Victory Rush!

Ukyo
08-21-2008, 10:41 PM
Beats me, but it would be awesome if you could hit like... with every single weapon you had with you XD

Kazeyonoma
08-21-2008, 10:47 PM
Lol

Painapple
08-21-2008, 11:54 PM
I guess i'll be playing my lock on WotLK =/


Really? Oo


Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=L)

Fury will rock! although wrecking crew is rather sexy too ><

Kazeyonoma
08-22-2008, 01:21 AM
they changed a lot with the latest beta push. I just looked over the trees, looking promising, i'll review in the morning.

Bloodwraith
08-22-2008, 05:21 AM
According to world of raids these were the warrior changes(I'll update the original post soon):


Warrior
Thunder Clap - Cooldown increased from 4 to 6 seconds.
Bloodsurge - Now makes Slam instant, instead of reducing its swing time by 100%.
Enrage - Melee damage bonus reduced from 5/10/15/20/25% to 3/6/9/12/15%, but now has unlimited charges.
Mace Specialization - Now generates 10 rage, but chance to stun removed.
Deathwish - Tooltip clarified. This is an enrage effect.
Improved Berserker Rage - Effect increased form 5/10 to 10/20 rage.
Blood Frenzy - Effect reduced from 2/4% to 1/2%
Shield Mastery - Now increased you block value instead of increasing the amount blocked by your shield.
Improved Charge - Rage generated increased from 3/6 to 5/10.
Improved Mortal Strike - New effect: Increases the damage caused by your Mortal Strike ability by 2/4/6/8/10% and gives your Enraged Assault ability a 6/12/18/24/30% chance to refresh the cooldown of Mortal Strike.
Rampage - New effect: Your melee critical hits cause you to go on a rampage, increasing melee critical hit chance of all party and raid members within 20 yds by 5%. Lasts 10 sec.
Bladestorm - Duration increased from 4.5 to 6 seconds.
Intensify Rage - New effect: Reduces the cooldown of your Bloodrage, Berserker Rage, Recklessness and Deathwish abilities by 11/22/33%.
Improved Shield Block: Cooldown reduction increased from 5/10 seconds to 10/20 seconds.
Shield Wall - Damage reduction increased from 50% to 60%.
Unrelenting Assault - Cooldown reduction increased from 1/2 seconds to 2/4 seconds.
Strength of Arms - 2 ranks now, down from 3. Effect increases from 1/2/3% to 2/4%.
Furious Resolve - New effect: Your normal melee attacks have a 50/100% chance to reduce all healing done to the target by 25% for 8 sec. This can stack up to 2 times.
Stalwart Protector - Now named Justified Killing. Effect increased from 1/2 rage to 3/6 rage, but no longer triggers on dodging.
Shield Block - Cooldown increased from 30 seconds to 1 minute. New effect: Increases your chance to block and block value by 100% for 5 sec.
Titans Grip - Now only 1 rank, attack speed decrease removed.
Improved Sunder Armor - Now named Puncture.
Heroic Leap - New icon
Trauma - New icon
Enraged Assault - Now has 10 second cooldown.
Wrecking Crew (New talent)- Your melee critical hits have a 20/40/60/80/100% chance to Enrage you, increasing all damage caused by 3/6/9/12/15% for 12 sec.
Unending Fury (New talent) - Reduces the rage cost of your Cleave, Whirlwind and Bloodthirst abilities by 1/2/3/4/5 and gives your Enraged Assault ability a 6/12/18/24/30% chance to refresh the cooldown of Bloodthirst.
Taste for Blood (New talent)- Whenever your Rend ability causes damage, you have a 10/20/30% chance of allowing the use of your Overpower ability for 5 secs.


Still no warrior Glyphs available.

PvP Items available at Lake Wintergrasp Cost:


As of Beta Build 8820, new PvP rewards have begun to be added to game, available for purchase from vendors in Lake Wintergrasp.

Note: Prices for these items are temporary and subject to change. Items are currently purchased with just Honor Points. This is likely to change as well.

Rare Armor:
Rare Chest: 6,000 Honor
Rare Helm: 6,000 Honor
Rare Shoulders: 4,800 Honor
Rare Gloves: 3,600 Honor
Rare Pants: 6,000 Honor
Rare Weapons:

Off-hand items: 3,600 Honor
Main-Hand (Healer Mace): 10,000 Honor
Main-Hand (Melee): 8,400 Honor
Two Hands: 12,000 Honor
Ranged Weapon (Hunters): 12,000 Honor
Throwing Weapons / Wands: 3,200 Honor
Shields: 6,000 Honor
Relics: 3,200 Honor
Epic Armor:
Epic Belt: 24,800 Honor
Epic Bracers: 15,800 Honor
Epic Necklace: 19,000 Honor
Epic Other Items:

Epic Cloak: 19,000 Honor
Epic Trinket: 24,800 Honor
Epic Rings: 19,000 Honor



Here are some pics (You can find more at PvP - WotlkWiki - Wrath of the Lich King Information (http://wotlkwiki.info/index.php/PvP#tab=Rewards))

http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/images/news/2008/august/lkhonor_platedps.jpg

http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/images/news/2008/august/lkarena_weapons.jpg

http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/images/news/2008/august/lkarena_weapons2.jpg

http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/images/news/2008/august/lkarena_weapons3.jpg

http://www.worldofraids.com/gallery/files/1/1/8/9/8/lk_s1_honor_sigil_and_shield_original.jpg

http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/images/news/2008/august/lkhonor_cloak.jpg

http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/images/news/2008/august/lkhonor_neck.jpg

http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/images/news/2008/august/lkhonor_ring.jpg

Wowhead's talent trees are updated with all of the new stuff:

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=L)

(off topic)Oh and Kaz when you read this, Serennia seems to have tranferred to Korgath. He joined Drama, and has paired up with footwerk on his arena teams.

The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Korgath&n=Serenn)

I saw it mentioned on korgath forums the other day but I didn't think they were serious. GL to anyone who tries to beat them to brutal gladiator :D

Nyd
08-22-2008, 05:50 AM
I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned yet, Fury is getting a passive Mortal Strike type ability.


New Talent - Furious Attacks (Tier 8 ) - Your normal melee attacks have a 50/100% chance to reduce all healing done to the target by 25% for 8 sec. This can stack up to 2 times.

It brings up an interesting PvP argument I've made a couple of times about warriors in pvp/arena being viable because of MS. Hamstring/MS is what has kept warriors on the front lines of PvP and that an easy fix to give every tree a warrior has some way of being viable in pvp would be to give each tree a Mortal Strike type ability.

In the same way they made shield slam a baseline ability for warriors to tank, make MS a baseline ability for warriors to pvp. And it really seems they've gone that route. When the next build comes and the prot tree comes into port, don't be surprised to see some sort of MS style debuff built into the tree.

Anyhow, exciting change for those dual wield warriors looking for pvp viability.

Bloodwraith
08-22-2008, 06:54 AM
With that change Fury almost looks better than arms for PvP. More damage. Heroic Leap. Etc, etc. Now I'm going to add fury stuff to the original post next time I update it.

Schleppy
08-22-2008, 09:47 AM
Looks like arms is rebalanced around using overpower ALOT with the talent to reduce it's CD and the talent to have rend proc it's use. Is it horrible to have a 5 rage ability be up basically every 2 seconds that has around an 80% chance to crit with talents and gear and does weapon damage?

Furious assault looks like a rage dump now since it has a 1/3 chance of refreshing the MS cooldown. Figure you will almost always be enraged with how often overpower will be lit up, so it shouldn't be a huge deal to use this ability and get it the enrage refreshed quickly.


Mace spec=dead now, that rage proc has to be 20 rage, not 10, otherwise maces will be totally useless to a warrior other then as tanking weapons. Polearms/axes come in a little behind swords after checking the talent tree's.

Think blizzard was reading my or someone's posts about adding that - healing debuff to fury and prot somehow? Would anyone be surprised anymore if when they redo prot talents there is a similar talent to what fury got in prot? I can predict lottery numbers also!


I figure bladestorm still needs some work, it needs either 2x the current damage and no other attacks allowed or a longer immunity to CC and it still allows for other attacks. I'd like to see it changed to give a haste buff and CC immunity buff for 15 seconds and do nothing else, (they can add whatever graphic they want for that) that alone would go a long way to making the whole tree more pvp viable. Admittedly in the tree's current form fury looks slightly more attractive.

Kazeyonoma
08-22-2008, 09:59 AM
lots of interesting changes. I'm still trying to absorb it all before I make some blanket statements.

And serennia on Korgath, lawlz, hilarious. Maimage got dropped for Serennia? Oh wells, Maims got like 3 gladiators anyways (his lock, his warrior, his priest).

Bloodwraith
08-22-2008, 10:32 AM
lots of interesting changes. I'm still trying to absorb it all before I make some blanket statements.

And serennia on Korgath, lawlz, hilarious. Maimage got dropped for Serennia? Oh wells, Maims got like 3 gladiators anyways (his lock, his warrior, his priest).

Yeah, not to mention maim could get any player he wanted :p

He and footwerk have done multiple teams this season all over 2200 in multiple brackets. He could quit now and get Gladiator title.

Kazeyonoma
08-22-2008, 10:52 AM
yeh, Maimage I think was sitting at 2300 after 2 or 3 weeks lol.

That's crazy, guess our BG is getting tighter. Good for us though, I've always hailed Vengeance as second only to BG9, and even then, I think we're close.

Soooo who's gonna try Dual Wield 2 hander pvp Fury come WotLK:
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=LVbh0bZVxzmxeRVuMtst0o)

Kazeyonoma
08-22-2008, 10:52 AM
yeh, Maimage I think was sitting at 2300 after 2 or 3 weeks lol.

That's crazy, guess our BG is getting tighter. Good for us though, I've always hailed Vengeance as second only to BG9, and even then, I think we're close.

Soooo who's gonna try Dual Wield 2 hander pvp Fury come WotLK:
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=LVbh0bZVxzmxeRVuMtst0o)

Bloodwraith
08-22-2008, 11:21 AM
I was thinking something like that spec kaz.

btw you might wanna get rid of that double post :D

Schleppy
08-22-2008, 11:42 AM
I think a respectable arms spec might be this, depending on a few factors to be outlined below

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=LVbhdfGVoMbdbgdioE0zhZ0o)

If this makes bleed ticks hit for close to 1k with trauma and imp rend.

If I am understanding taste for blood right, it say's, ""30% chance of allowing you the use of the overpower ability for 5 seconds." That sounds like it doesnt activate it's cooldown when it's used, but instead when 5 seconds are up. Even if it's only 1 use, with overpower having a 2 second cooldown in that build, it should be up quite a bit. A 5 rage instant that hits for in the 20%25% less then a MS hit isnt to shabby for 1/6th the rage cost when it's available more then when fighting rogues/warriors/hunters.

If bladestorm brings you out of CC as well as makes you immune to it. Trinket the first sheep, bladestorm the second, immune for the 3rd, hello DR! Goodbye mage!

This could work as well if you think last stand is a must have..

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=LVbhdfuVoMbdbgdioVZbId)

Schleppy
08-22-2008, 11:51 AM
On a somewhat releated note, I would like to see Imp MS adjusted to be 10% more damage, 5 less rage at 5/5.

Painapple
08-22-2008, 12:41 PM
Bladestorm, half number of WWs and allow other abilites?

Schleppy
08-22-2008, 12:57 PM
I'd be happy if it just removed/made immune to CC for 6 seconds, and did nothing else, they could add a fancy graphic to it. Ya, tying someone in to a move that can be avoided and stops rage generation for 6 seconds isnt to hot.

byechee
08-22-2008, 01:18 PM
does anyone know if wrecking crew will stack with enrage? or WC with DW? I'm assuming no, but I'm going to check tonight when I can get on beta. it would be pretty buff damage if they did, and if bladestorm continues to be lackluster then DW might be the way to go.

Painapple
08-22-2008, 01:32 PM
A furious assault that consumes an Enrage effect on the warrior and attacks with all weapons. Can only be used while Enraged.

"An" enrage effect sounds like you can have more, but dunno.

Kazeyonoma
08-22-2008, 03:02 PM
I think Enrage won't stack with Enrage since on the Wrecking crew tooltip it says it Enrages you. The reason why more than one is capable is because bloodrage, berserker rage and deathwish should become enrages too.

Ukyo
08-22-2008, 05:47 PM
Interesting changes, looks like fury pvp might be viable once again :O...

though, i wonder... are we getting fury pvp gear? :X

Bloodwraith
08-22-2008, 06:35 PM
A few of the pvp pieces are labeled "melee DPS Crit x" or "Melee Dps hit x" so I guess they'll be adding hit versions for stuff.

Ukyo
08-23-2008, 01:53 PM
A few of the pvp pieces are labeled "melee DPS Crit x" or "Melee Dps hit x" so I guess they'll be adding hit versions for stuff.

Iiiiiinteresting =o got to get me a beta key fast XD

Bloodwraith
08-23-2008, 04:07 PM
Same here QQ

Bloodwraith
08-23-2008, 06:47 PM
I saw this on the forums, thought it might give you guys some laughs

"Level 90, Evolved Titans Grip"

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v200/txkarenr/txkarenr2/GeneralGrievous-WellArmed.jpg

lol :D

Ukyo
08-23-2008, 09:09 PM
I saw this on the forums, thought it might give you guys some laughs

"Level 90, Evolved Titans Grip"

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v200/txkarenr/txkarenr2/GeneralGrievous-WellArmed.jpg

lol :D

Hmm does that includes the cough? xD

Bloodwraith
08-25-2008, 01:02 PM
Swifty released a short video of TG PvP

753499

Painapple
08-25-2008, 02:38 PM
Swifty released a short video of TG PvP


Don't suppose you have an url?

Bloodwraith
08-25-2008, 02:52 PM
Don't suppose you have an url?

wotlk.wmv - FileFront.com (http://files.filefront.com/wotlkwmv/;11598947;/fileinfo.html)

:D

Kazeyonoma
08-25-2008, 03:06 PM
why... why always filefront... damnit.

Painapple
08-25-2008, 04:40 PM
wotlk.wmv - FileFront.com (http://files.filefront.com/wotlkwmv/;11598947;/fileinfo.html)

:D

Thank you

Bloodwraith
08-25-2008, 05:45 PM
why... why always filefront... damnit.

I guess ya gotta wait till ya get home eh kazey =P

Oh btw footwerk and serenn are already to 2300 QQ

Kazeyonoma
08-25-2008, 06:36 PM
Yeh, I saw that, lots of drama on the forums already trying to bash poor Serenn, he's a good guy imo.

Daavos
08-26-2008, 07:26 AM
"Mace Specialization - Now generates 10 rage, but chance to stun removed."

Anyway else underwhelmed by what they're replacing mace stun with?

QQ - Can I return my S2 Mace and get the 27K honor back?

Kazeyonoma
08-26-2008, 09:28 AM
lol yeh, i read that and kinda scoffed, maces are still gonna be dominant up until then but 10 rage is pretty paltry... it does proc twice as often as the other 2 specs but I think wotlk will show the power of the new Poleaxe specialization shine.

Daavos
08-26-2008, 09:52 AM
Yeah when you think about they're only really giving us 3 rage for taking mace stun out.

Currently we get 7 rage + plus a stun.

So the OP stun effect has a value of 3 rage.

Kazeyonoma
08-26-2008, 10:19 AM
yeh... as of now mace spec is practically worthless =T

Bloodwraith
08-26-2008, 01:59 PM
Interesting blue posts:


With the release of Wrath of the Lich King approaching, we wanted to provide you with some important information. In preparation for the expansion, we will be issuing a new content patch in the coming weeks. Much like the patch made available shortly before The Burning Crusade's release, this content patch is designed to bridge current game content with that of the expansion and will contain some exciting changes and additions.

We have outlined some of the larger features scheduled to release with the patch below:

New class spells and talents
Stormwind Harbor
Barbershops in capital cities
Zeppelin towers outside of Orgrimmar and Tirisfal Glades
Two brand-new Arenas featuring challenging new layouts, terrain hazards, and moving obstacles
Guild calendar
Hunter pet skill revamp
New profession: Inscription

As mentioned above, this is not a comprehensive list, just some of the major highlights. We’ll post the full patch notes as soon as they’re available. Regarding Inscription, please note that all Burning Crusade players will be able to select Inscription as one of their two professions and level up to a skill level of 375 with it. Upon the release of Wrath of the Lich King, players who purchase and install the expansion will be able to continue leveling in Inscription and the other professions beyond 375.




We want to provide some information about the direction of the Arena system. Upon the release of Wrath of the Lich King, players will find they are still able to access the Arena system at level 70 for rated matches. Those competing in the Arenas at 70 will still be able to attain items using Arena points and rankings; however, we do not currently plan to offer new items or titles for this bracket. Players who level past 70 will have their Arena points reset to 0 and be removed from all Arena teams in the level-70 bracket.

Two new skirmish brackets (71-75, 76-80) will be available for players who wish to hone their Arena skills while leveling in Northrend. Those who reach level 80 will once again have the opportunity to create new Arena teams and play in rated matches once a new season starts. New items, titles, and end-of-season rewards will be offered to the most successful teams at level 80. Additionally, the sets released for the Arenas in Wrath of the Lich King will no longer share aesthetic similarities with tiered raiding gear. We want those equipped with the best PvP rewards and those with the best raiding sets to stand out from each other. Players at level 80 will also have the opportunity to compete in two new Arenas featuring challenging new layouts, terrain hazards, and moving obstacles.

Schleppy
08-26-2008, 02:03 PM
I'd like to see the mace proc be at least 15 rage, preferrably 20. I wouldn't care if it was "20 rage generated over 5 seconds, cannot proc more then once every 6 seconds" The rage bonus on the current mace proc was simply icing on the cake, not the reason you chose mace spec. If you are going to make the rage bonus the sole purpose to choose mace spec, it gotta be a real nice chunk of rage.

Bloodwraith
08-26-2008, 04:13 PM
Mace from new naxx:

http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/images/news/2008/august/lootupdate/naxxramas_02.jpg

:D

Kazeyonoma
08-26-2008, 06:03 PM
Mace spec or not, that badboy would rape faces with titans grip.

lionel
08-26-2008, 09:04 PM
are the weapons seriously gonna have gay names like the pick posted above?

Kruthel
08-27-2008, 12:52 AM
You guys are talking about the weapon specs as if you are speccing in to them...
I don't see the changes in arms really being worth it with all the huge buffs fury got, and you can't get the weapon specs with titan's grip :D

Schleppy
08-27-2008, 08:53 AM
You guys are talking about the weapon specs as if you are speccing in to them...
I don't see the changes in arms really being worth it with all the huge buffs fury got, and you can't get the weapon specs with titan's grip :D

I wouldn't be to sure about that just yet. I think people continiously under-estimate what the changes with stacking deep wounds and overpower in the arm's tree will do for arms DPS and continiously over-estimate what TG will do for a warrior in a PvP envoirnment. I may be totally wrong but until I get to test out the changes effect's to both trees I'm certainly not rushing to judgement either way.

I like a lot of the changes to both tree's, and see some area's in both tree's that could be changed a little further to help them not be branded as "bad talents". The changes might not be able to be correctly assesed until months after the expansion when people have more access to the level 80 gear made for their particular spec. Since it looks like there will be a fury pvp set with more hit rating and an arms pvp set with more strength it looks like blizzard is making an effort to balance things out in the end. Whether or not that is a good thing is left to each person to decide for themselves.

Kazeyonoma
08-27-2008, 09:31 AM
I'd still go Arms at least to try it, weapon specs have always made 2handed weapons powerful, I'd just have to switch to an axe now.

And lionel, no that's just the name that is temporarily in place on the beta.

Schleppy
08-27-2008, 10:55 AM
Know what I would really love to see them do with weapon specs? (especially since they want the stuns gone)

Instead of having sword spec, mace spec, axe spec, unfiy the effect's for all weapons, then choose your effect(s)

Instead of sword spec: Vicious strikes, gives your weapon attacks a 5% chance to gain an extra attack.

Instead of mace spec: Sharpened skills, allows your weapon attacks a 5% chance to grant you 15 rage.

Instead of Axe spec: Veteran's knowledge, grants you 5% increased crit chance and 5% bonus critical damage with your weapon attacks.


The names I just pulled out of my ass, so they don't matter, but why can't the effects be for any weapon in this new day and age of wow?

Kazeyonoma
08-27-2008, 11:06 AM
But... if that's the case, I'd just spend 10 points and grab Vicious Strikes + Veteran's Knowledge together, and BLAM, combine that with my Orc Axe +5 expertise, and I've got me 1 sick ass mofo'ing weapon. ;x

Bloodwraith
08-27-2008, 12:34 PM
More info on pre-xpac patch:


None of the classes are done. They are still being iterated on. 3.0 will be on the PTR's soon. There is still a lot of testing before 3.0 would go live to public servers. If you look back at past patches, we've had patches on the PTR for over 2 months before

Fury tweaks:


Intensify Rage and Precision switched places in the talent tree
As you expressed it Intensify Rage is required for PvP. Therefore Precision and Intensify Rage have now switched places in the talent tree. We want this to be something that a furry warrior has access to without making arms warriors feel they have to have it to be functional.

Grufvendar
08-27-2008, 02:30 PM
It looks like the new Arms stuff is based around replacing WW in your rotation with OP which means more time in Battle stance and might work out well for PvE. The problem in PvP is that Intercept and the 2 fear breaks we have left are in Zerker stance. With the MS like debuff and the new TG with it's added dps both from the weapons and the additional stats that 2h have (and maybe even enchants), I'm not sure how well Arms will compete in PvP.

Bloodwraith
08-28-2008, 12:54 PM
Today's blue posts:


Furious Attacks - This talent will see some revision before retail so don't worry about a world where warriors are dual wielding daggers for MS bonanzas.


Lake Wintergrasp - We’re hoping to get the zone into better shape in the next couple patches. Here’s a few things that should be coming in the next build:

All vehicles should be despawn after the battle ends
Demolisher and Siege Vehicle health has been reduced by 50-75%
Demolisher and Siege Vehicle ram attacks no longer knock a player high enough to kill them
Jet & Bomber health has been reduced
Bomber damage has been increased
Players in Bombers should no longer take damage
Reward for holding the keep has been added
The Goblin Workshops in the North and South now also supply players with land mines that deal bonus damage to tanks
We also hope to have a system for rewarding only players that participated in the battle working soon.


Update: New Build on beta- 8885

Painapple
08-30-2008, 05:26 AM
Mace Specialization: This will grant armor penetration when using a mace. (The warrior talent will as well.)



Toughness now Increases your armor value from items by 2/4/6/8/10% and reduces the duration of all movement slowing effects by 20/20/30/40/50%.

Bloodwraith
08-30-2008, 07:54 AM
8885 Changes:



Warrior
Arms


Trauma has been moved from Tier 9 to Tier 6
Sudden Death has been moved from Tier 6 to Tier 9.
Strength of Arms has been moved from Tier 8 to Tier 7
Fury


Precision has been moved from Tier 7 to Tier 5
Rampage now affects all party and raid members within 45 yards (old: 20 yards).
Protection


Shockwave now deals damage equal to 50% of the AP of the Warrior (old: 25%)
Sword and Board: When your Devastate and Shield Slam abilities deal damage they have a 3/6/9/12/15% (old: 2/4/6/8/10%) chance of refreshing the cooldown of your Shield Slam ability and reducing its cost by 100% for 5 sec.
Safeguard moved from Tier 8 to Tier 7, Rank 3 removed: Now Reduces damage taken by the target of your Intervene ability by 30/60% (old: 20/40/60%) for 6 sec. In addition, your Charge, Intercept and Intervene abilities have a 50/100% (old: 33/66/100%) chance to remove all movement impairing effects when used.
Critical Block: Your successful blocks have a 10/20/30% chance to block double the normal amount and increases your chance to critically hit with your Shield Slam ability by an additional 5/10/15%.
Improved Defensive Stance reduced to 2 ranks: While in Defensive Stance all spell damage is reduced by 3/6% and when you Block, Parry or Dodge an attack you have a 50/100% chance to become Enraged, increasing melee damage caused by 5/10% for 12 sec.
Vigilance's Taunt refreshing effect increased to the next 3 attacks and lasts 30 minutes.
Improved Shield Wall: Increases the damage reduction of your Shield Wall ability by an additional 5/10% and reduces the cooldown by 30/60 secs.
Puncture Rank 3 removed
Improved Disarm reduced to 2 ranks: Reduces the cooldown of your Disarm and Shield Break abilities by 10/20 secs (old: 5/10 secs) and causes the target to take an additional 5/10% (old: 4/7%) damage while disarmed.
Improved Revenge reduced to 2 ranks: Increases damage of your Revenge ability by 10/20% (old: 8/16%) and gives a 25/50% (old: 10/20%) chance to stun the target for 3 sec.
Toughness: Increases your armor value from items by 2/4/6/8/10% and reduces the duration of all movement slowing effects by 10/20/30/40/50%.
Additional Changes


New ability: Weapon Throw (level 80): Throws your weapon at the enemy causing damage equal to 100% of AP. This ability causes high threat. 30 yd range, 0.5 sec cast, 20 sec cooldown
New ability: Enraged Assault (level 75): A furious assault that consumes an Enrage effect on the warrior and attacks with all weapons. Can only be used while Enraged. 15 Rage, 5 yd range, Instant, 10 sec cooldown
Execute damage has been slightly reduced, now scales with 20% of your AP.
Battle Shout now affects your raid members.
Shield Block duration increased from 5 seconds to 10 seconds.
Revenge damage has been slightly reduced, now scales with 9.5% of your AP.
Shield Wall damage reduction has been changed from 60% to 50%.
Disarm rage cost changed from 20 to 15.

update: the 9th tier prot talent "Charge" allows the use of charge in combat
weapon throw also has no min range

Schleppy
08-31-2008, 04:12 PM
But... if that's the case, I'd just spend 10 points and grab Vicious Strikes + Veteran's Knowledge together, and BLAM, combine that with my Orc Axe +5 expertise, and I've got me 1 sick ass mofo'ing weapon. ;x

I dont see anything wrong with that to be honest. Lets assume arms wont be useless for pvp and bladestorm wont suck and arms warriors will be rend/overpower/ms/enraged assault machines and we can discount fury from this because the placement of the talent precludes a fury warrior from getting either of these and TG.


Do you think without these changes arms warriors will scale up in pvp the same a fury will in both burst and sustained dps?

Would a 33/0/37+1 build be overpowered with that warriors ability to get out of movement imparing effects and dish out and take damage giving up imp hamstring and imp intercept?

I know this point is moot since they are giving ArP to mace spec, but an arms warrior should be the master of all 2 handed weapons, not only one, it sure seems to go with the flow.

Bloodwraith
08-31-2008, 07:19 PM
This seems to be the only updated talent calculator I can find:

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warrior

The other ones don't reflect the latest build.

EDIT:

Updated sections to current build:

Siege Weapons
Strand of the Ancients
Lake Wintergrasp
Arena
Dalaran Sewers
Orgrimmar Arena

Update for the rest of the sections inc! Lots of new changes. I'm back to school this week so don't have as much time.

Lake Wintergrasp Changes in upcoming build:


Here's a quick update on some of the things coming to Wintergrasp over the course of the next few beta updates.

Graveyards will be inaccessible to attackers (ie: above normal terrain) to put a damper on gy camping.
Ranking up will be based on HKs rather than killing blows (was always intended to be HKs)
In the case of team imbalances, there will be escalating bonuses to the weaker team (for both honor and combat effectiveness... mostly survivability bonuses and potentially easier access to vehicles)
The losing team will receive a partial bonus at the end of a battle (also based on participation)
Players will be able to leave Wintergrasp at any time (via a "Leave Battle" UI option similar to leaving a battleground)
A variety of daily quests will be introduced to the zone, including quests that are relevant when the battle isn't currently active
Ongoing tuning of vehicle power (they're still on the strong side)
Ongoing bugfixing and polish
Something else we're hoping to get in, but aren't certain of at this point is the ability to select which graveyard you respawn at.

Bloodwraith
09-02-2008, 01:43 PM
If anyone is thinking about making a TG Fury PvP Guide when 3.0 hits I think this would be a good overview of what should be there:

TG Fury PvP Guide

-Common Specs
+List of the most common specs
+Reasons for Spec
+Other Options
+Talents to Avoid
-Spells to Use
+PvP Role
+Situations
-Gear/Weapon Info
+Socket Info
+Gear Enchants
+Weapon Enchants
-Stats to Aim For
+Hit Rating Info
+Expertise Info
+Haste Info
+Other Stat Info
-Arena Team Comps
+2v2
+3v3
+5v5
-Other Info I can't think of right now

_______________________________________________

This is just a kinda rough draft I put together in a few minutes, could probably use some tweaks and I'm sure I missed some stuff.

Bloodwraith
09-03-2008, 06:30 PM
The original thread is completely updated finally :D!

Kazeyonoma
09-03-2008, 09:00 PM
zomg must read ya'lls.

Kazeyonoma
09-03-2008, 09:14 PM
Oh, they removed the CD from sword spec from what serenn is saying on the beta.

Bloodwraith
09-04-2008, 12:55 PM
Ok, I'll change that. Also WoWHead is updated for talents to latest build, so I'll removed the mmo-champion calc.

Kazeyonoma
09-04-2008, 02:16 PM
sounds good.

Bloodwraith
09-05-2008, 05:48 PM
8905 is out.

Change Log:

Added new warrior Glyphs.

In the last update I removed all the opinions and just left the info. I think opinions should be in the replies and not in the OP.

Wintergrasp Changes:

- The losing team of Wintergrasp will now be rewarded as well as the winning side: Wintergrasp Defeat - "Grants the losing team 500 honor and 50 arena points for participating in Wintergrasp." (Approx a third of what the winning team gets.)
- The final reward honor for winning or losing Wintergrasp will now be increased by your rank earned during the gameplay. (Recruit, Corporal, etc.)
- A zone check has been added to count Horde and Alliance players in the area. The side that is outnumbered gains the Tenacity buff: "Being outnumbered has increased your tenacity, increasing your health by 12.5% and your damage by 5%." (probably a Northrend wide buff).

Added 2 Youtube videos for TG/Heroic Leap and Bladestorm

Still havn't seen new patch notes, or a change log so I'm sure there are more updates to come.

__________________________________________________ __

Naxx is out for testing and here's some interesting loot:

http://www.worldofraids.com/gallery/files/1/naxx10_warriorset_dps_original.jpg

http://www.worldofraids.com/gallery/files/1/naxx10_weap14_original.png

http://www.worldofraids.com/gallery/files/1/naxx10_weap10.png

http://www.worldofraids.com/gallery/files/1/naxx10_cloak3.png

http://www.worldofraids.com/gallery/files/1/naxx10_ring3.png

http://www.worldofraids.com/gallery/files/1/naxx10_plate13.png

http://www.worldofraids.com/gallery/files/1/naxx10_plate12.png

http://www.worldofraids.com/gallery/files/1/naxx10_plate2.png

http://www.worldofraids.com/gallery/files/1/naxx10_plate7.png

http://www.worldofraids.com/gallery/files/1/naxx10_weap17.png

http://www.worldofraids.com/gallery/files/1/naxx10_weap15.png

http://www.worldofraids.com/gallery/files/1/naxx10_neck5.png

http://www.worldofraids.com/gallery/files/1/naxx10_plate17.png

http://www.worldofraids.com/gallery/files/1/naxx10_plate18.png

http://www.worldofraids.com/gallery/files/1/naxx10_ring8.png

http://www.worldofraids.com/gallery/files/1/naxx10_neck7.png

http://www.worldofraids.com/gallery/files/1/naxx10_weap19.png

Upcoming Racial Changes:


Changes that should be in the next beta push. Bear in mind that some of these may change somewhat or entirely, and there may also be other changes coming in subsequent pushes:

Orc
- Hardiness now reduces the duration of stun effects by 15%

Troll
- Racial Passive "The Voodoo Shuffle": Reduces the duration of all movement impairing effects by 15%. Trolls be flippin' out mon!
- Berserking: no longer has an activation cost of energy/rage/etc

Draenei
- Gift of the Naaru: now scales based on the higher of either the caster's Attack Power or Spell Power

Dwarf
- Frost Resistance: reduces the chance to be hit by Frost spells by 2%

Undead
- Shadow Resistance: reduces the chance to be hit by Shadow spells by 1% (yes, this is lower than the other resistance racials)

Night Elf
- Quickness: reduces the chance to be hit by melee or ranged attacks by 2%
- Nature Resistance: reduces the chance to be hit by Nature spells by 3%

Tauren
- Endurance: now scales based on base health, to be tuned to approximately a 5% heath increase if the player were wearing green quality gear
- Nature Resistance: reduces the chance to be hit by Nature spells by 2%

Gnome
- Escape Artist: the freeing effect can no longer be resisted
- Arcane Resistance: reduces the chance to be hit by Arcane spells by 2%

Blood Elf
- Mana Tap: ability removed (partially integrated into Arcane Torrent)
- Arcane Torrent: restores 15 energy, 15 runic power, or 6% of mana to the Blood Elf (along with the current 2s silence effect)

Human
- Perception: changed to a passive, now grants one character level of passive stealth detection
- Racial "The Fall of Humanity": Feign death which may trick enemies into ignoring you. Any threat is restored versus enemies still in combat upon cancellation of this effect. 5min cooldown
- Racial Passive "Human Supremacy": The dominance of Humanity is evidenced by having one more racial bonus than normal. Actually, make that two counting this one. (just a tooltip, no actual functionality)

Ukyo
09-06-2008, 02:13 PM
Hmm, things are looking bright for fury pvp in the expansion, i only wish i had a beta key for all this free time i have now lol

Bloodwraith
09-06-2008, 02:43 PM
lol I wish I had a key too :mad:

I'm looking forward to Fury PvP if it stays as strong as it is now.

Talents that I think are going to be req'd:

Fury:

5/5 cruelty
5/5 booming voice
1/1 piercing howl
3/3 blood craze
1/5 commanding presence
5/5 DW Specialization
3/3 precision
1/1 deathwish
2/2 weapon mastery
5/5 flurry
3/3 intensify rage
1/1 bloodthirst
2/2 imp WW
2/2 furious resolve
5/5 imp zerker stance
1/1 heroic leap
1/1 rampage
3/3 bloodsurge
1/1 TG

Unending fury is broken since they removed enraged assault, probably 5/5 in whatever they change it to.

Arms:

5/5 deflection
2/2 Imp Rend
3/3 Iron Will
2/2 Impale
3/3 Deep wounds

This is kinda what I'm thinking:

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=LVbhofZE0zuxcRVurtst)

Some are debatable, but that's something like what I'll be getting.

Schleppy
09-06-2008, 04:21 PM
I'm thinking of trying prot in pvp to get a good judge of the changes from that viewpoint.


What do you think of a build like this? http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warrior=25010300200000000000000000000000503512250 301252033211331005000000000000000000000000


I dont know how usefull shockwave will be in the arena's, and it's rough to judge some of the other abilities and how usefull they will be in pvp. That's a pretty well balanced tanking/pvp spec and I think I'll work on min.maxing it out a bit after some testing, any comments or suggestions other then dont use prot for pvp? :)

bosephus
09-07-2008, 08:16 AM
Although kinda silly, I've used my Prot Warrior for PVP here and there on the current live servers. One of my Prot Paladin guildmates and I decided we wanted to see what we can do in arenas while raid-spec.

We can decimiate warriors and rogues in duels and 2v2. As long as you're not keyboard turning and can keep them in front of you, they just can't hit you through avoidance or hurt you with so much armor and hp and you can whittle them to death.

Casters, however, are terrible. You can outsurvive a melee class, but casters are different. Shield reflect on a ten second cooldown is way too long to provide protection. We were seriously considering naming our 2v2 arena team to "Easily Kited" from our experience there. Basically, the problems I saw for a prot warrior right now are that you are easily cc'd and damage output is about the same as a level 63 dps class. A well timed concussion blow and hamstring will keep targets in range, but getting into range is a huge problem.

With the addition of reduction of movement slowdown affects to Toughness and Warbringer, hopefully it'll be easier to stay in range. If our damage output goes up as promised to a level competitive with the other trees, then we might have some fun.

Since Conc Blow and Shockwave scale with AP and stun, I think they're both pretty essential. I think we'll be relying on CB, SW, and SS for our burst damage, hoping for crits, hamstringing and devastating in between to proc S&B for another SS.

I could see popping a rage potion so you get to 100 rage and then firing off SW, SS, then devastate to proc S&B again, then CB when the SW stun wears, and SS again. Depending on how lucky you are with crits and how much they finalize the damage output, I daresay we could actually -kill- somebody in PVP.

edit: oh yea, and with Gag Order, we now get a ranged silence as well as a melee silence, so we'll have a way to double silence and then double stun a caster. Good times...

Ukyo
09-08-2008, 10:30 AM
lol I wish I had a key too :mad:

I'm looking forward to Fury PvP if it stays as strong as it is now.

Talents that I think are going to be req'd:

Fury:

5/5 cruelty
5/5 booming voice
1/1 piercing howl
3/3 blood craze
1/5 commanding presence
5/5 DW Specialization
3/3 precision
1/1 deathwish
2/2 weapon mastery
5/5 flurry
3/3 intensify rage
1/1 bloodthirst
2/2 imp WW
2/2 furious resolve
5/5 imp zerker stance
1/1 heroic leap
1/1 rampage
3/3 bloodsurge
1/1 TG

Unending fury is broken since they removed enraged assault, probably 5/5 in whatever they change it to.

Arms:

5/5 deflection
2/2 Imp Rend
3/3 Iron Will
2/2 Impale
3/3 Deep wounds

This is kinda what I'm thinking:

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=LVbhofZE0zuxcRVurtst)

Some are debatable, but that's something like what I'll be getting.

I was thinking something like that, but instead of picking Imp. OP, i was gonna go for Anger Management, but that's up to change since i don't know how's our rage generation going to work yet :P. Maybe a 15/55/1 spec for Spell reflects too

Bloodwraith
09-08-2008, 12:33 PM
Some new blues:


About the Arms tree
Arms is definitely something on our radar. The other two trees are getting a lot closer. Arms now has some self-healing like Fury, and the Overpower changes are in the right direction. We just need to smooth out some rough spots and try to make the whole thing gel.


Protection Warriors in PvP
We even threw in Charge in Berserker Stance too. Maybe that will help when you aren't tanking.

We still might need to adjust the talent depending on the outcome. When we say we don't want Charge to be part of a tank's rotation, we mean that we don't want to see the normal way to tank a boss to be backup (or Intervene) then Charge back in over and over to proc a stun and get some rage. It's totally cool to use it to get around the battlefield on short notice, but we don't want the backup and Charge thing to be mandatory. It may not be, since mobs tend to follow the tank and the min range is large, but you guys are clever and we just need to see it action some first.

I don't want to totally derail this thread with a discussion of the role of Mortal Strike in PvP (which is ironic, since it would actually be a re-rail). However, the plan for now is not to have an MS-like effect in Prot.

On the one hand, we have given it out to other classes, and perhaps coincidentally, perhaps not, classes lacking the debuff can struggle in Arena. On the other hand, if half or more of the specs in the game get something like MS, you are just going to exist in Arenas in a state of permanent healing debuff, in which case we should just make that an aura on entering Arena and be done with it.

We'll probably continue to evolve our views on the role of Mortal Strike. It's very much a work in progress and I'm almost certain this is not the final word on the subject.


How the class changes are done?
We have spreadsheets -- huge ones. We have values for characters in greens and raid buffed with epic gear. We have estimates of mob damage and health, character downtime, the benefits from enchants, gems and glyphs. We have conversion rates of mana to runic power to energy to rage. We look at damage per second, efficiency, button presses per second, typical rotations, movement vs. standing still, mobs vs. players and every other variable we can think of (and there are a LOT of them).

In the end we come up with an estimate for what an attack should do. We come up with a budget for talents and spells just like we have a budget for items at a given level. Sometimes those estimates are wrong because we forgot to take something into account, or because there's a bug in a talent or spell somewhere that messes up the calculation.

And then we do lots of testing, and to get a reality check on our tests, we compare them to the numbers people are reporting from the beta. Repeat as necessary.

I've said this in a few posts: that our numbers can sometimes be wrong (as is the case almost any time you deal with numbers), but the methods we use to arrive at them are absolutely not sloppy.


Warriors
Blood Craze (Fury) now regenerates 2/4/6% of total health over 6 seconds.
Blood Frenzy (Arms) moved to Tier 9, now increases physical damage caused by 1/2%.
Bloodthirst (Fury) now restores health based on a % of total health.
Concussion Blow (Protection) now causes damage based on attack power.
Deep Wounds (Arms) now requires Impale, causes 16/32/48% of weapon damage over 6 seconds.
Disarm rage cost reduced to 15.
Impale (Arms) moved to Tier 3, no longer requires Deep Wounds.
Improved Berserker Rage (Fury) now generates 10/20 rage.
Improved Defensive Stance (Protection) reduced to 2 ranks, now reduces spell damage taken by 3/6% and any block/parry/dodge has a 50/100% chance to enrage the warrior causing 5/10% more damage for 12 sec.
Improved Disarm (Protection) reduced to 2 ranks, now reduces the cooldown of Disarm by 10/20 sec and increases damage taken by disarmed targets by 5/10%.
Improved Disciplines (Arms) removed.
Improved Mortal Strike (Arms) now increases damage by 2/4/6/8/10%, no longer reduces cooldown.
Improved Rend (Arms) reduced to 2 ranks for 25/50%.
Improved Revenge (Protection) now increases damage Revenge causes by 10/20% and gives a 25/50% chance to stun.
Improved Shield Bash (Protection) now also increases the damage of your Shield Slam ability by 5/10%.
Improved Shield Wall now increases the damage reduction by an additional 5/10% reduces cooldown by 30/60 seconds.
Improved Slam (Fury) moved to Arms.
Improved Sunder Armor (Protection) renamed Puncture reduced to 2 ranks for 1/2 rage cost reduction.
Improved Taunt (Protection) removed, effect made baseline.
Improved Whirlwind (Fury) now increases damage of Whirlwind by 10/20%, no longer reduces cooldown.
Last Stand (Protection) cooldown reduced to 5 minutes.
Mace Specialization (Arms) now ignores 3/6/9/12/15% of target's armor.
Precision (Fury) moved to Tier 5.
Rampage now causes all party and raid members within 20 yards of the Warrior to go on a rampage, increasing melee critical hit chance by 5% for 10 seconds when the warrior scores a melee critical.
Shield Block now increases chance to block and amount blocked by 100% for 10 seconds. Cooldown increased to 60 seconds, rage cost removed.
Shield Wall now reduces all damage taken by 50% for 12 seconds cooldown reduced to 5 minutes.
Slam now suspends the weapon swing timer rather than resetting it.
Taunt cooldown reduced to 8 sec.
Toughness (Protection) moved to tier 3 , now also reduces the duration of movement slowing effects by 10/20/30/40/50%.

Bloodwraith
09-10-2008, 01:58 PM
Added Wintergrasp Dailies and some more info. Looks like honor will be pretty easy to come by in WotLK.

Kazeyonoma
09-10-2008, 02:13 PM
Oh god I hope so -_-'

Bloodwraith
09-10-2008, 04:03 PM
Oh god I hope so -_-'

According to WoR you can hit honor cap in a week of just winning a single battle and doing the dailies :D

Btw new blues on merge patch:


The next major content patch is coming, and it's big. In order to smooth the way, we will shortly enable background downloading of most of the data for this patch. People who use the Launcher and have background downloading enabled will automatically start getting the data. The Downloader downloads faster in general now, so you may want to adjust your background download settings. You can adjust these settings in the Laucher, by visiting the Options page. If you want the fastest possible download, check the "Don't throttle background download". However, note that this can affect the performance of other programs running at the same time.

New Beta Build inc


We are bringing the Beta realms down starting at 2:45 PM PDT to perform maintenance and to apply a patch. We anticipate a downtime of approximately 6 hours.

Thank you for your continued testing and feedback!

Kazeyonoma
09-10-2008, 05:03 PM
so much feedback from the devs, it's like... they actually learned some PR.

Bloodwraith
09-11-2008, 01:03 PM
New Beta Build Changes:


Arms
- Wrecking Crew - Your melee critical hits Enrage you, increasing all damage caused by 2/4/6/8/10% for 12 sec.

Fury
- Commanding Shout is now a raid wide buff: Increases maximum health of all party and raid members within 20 yards by 1080. Lasts 2 min.
- Enrage now gives you a 30% chance to receive a 2/4/6/8/10% damage bonus for 12 sec after being the victim of a damaging attack.
- Rampage now affects ranged critical hit, in addition to melee. (Your melee critical hits cause you to go on a rampage, increasing ranged and melee critical hit chance of all party and raid members within 45 yds by 5%. Lasts 10 sec.)
- Titan's Grip allows you to equip two-handed axes, maces and swords in one hand. Also reduces your chance to hit with melee abilities that require weapons by -15%.

Protection
- Devastate changed: Sunder the target's armor causing the Sunder Armor effect. In addition, causes 80% of weapon damage plus 101 for each application of Sunder Armor on the target. The Sunder Armor effect can stack up to 5 times.
- New Talent - Improved Spell Reflection (Tier 4) - Reduces the chance you'll be hit by spells by -2/4%, reduces the cooldown of your Spell Reflection ability by -2/5 sec and when the ability is used it will reflect the first spell cast against the 2/4 closest party members.

TG Nerf- ouch :confused:

Brucimus
09-11-2008, 02:05 PM
Bummer about TG. I bet Blizz will unerf that a bit. Did you all the new Human Racial?

"Every Man for Himself, and reads as follows: Removes all movement impairing effects and all effects which cause loss of control of your character. This effect shares a cooldown with other similar effects, such as the PvP trinket."

This appears to allow us old boring humans not to have to equip a pvp trinket anymore? If that's the case that is a nice buff for the Alliance in general

Bloodwraith
09-11-2008, 03:45 PM
I wish Night elves would get something good. The only thing we have in beta is you'll need extra hit to be capped on a NE.

EDIT: New Blue Post on Character Xfer:


Providing a smooth and enjoyable experience for all players is always a priority for us, and we are continually re-evaluating our policies and programs to do so. As the state of the game has matured substantially since the inception of Paid Character Transfers, we will now be allowing PvE-to-PvP transfers on a full-time basis to provide players with more mobility and freedom to easily play with their friends.

Keep in mind that all of the other standard cooldowns and restrictions will continue to apply; we're just opening the option to transfer characters on Normal realms to Player-vs.-Player realms. Please review the Paid Character Transfer FAQ if you have any questions on how this service works.

You can use this service at any time by visiting your Account Management page and selecting the "Paid Character Transfer" button

Gravy
09-11-2008, 03:50 PM
I thought they made shadowmeld an in combat vanish? (without the threat wipe)

Kazeyonoma
09-11-2008, 03:54 PM
Bummer about TG. I bet Blizz will unerf that a bit. Did you all the new Human Racial?

"Every Man for Himself, and reads as follows: Removes all movement impairing effects and all effects which cause loss of control of your character. This effect shares a cooldown with other similar effects, such as the PvP trinket."

This appears to allow us old boring humans not to have to equip a pvp trinket anymore? If that's the case that is a nice buff for the Alliance in general

If this goes live it's gonna be more game breaking than the 5% health on taurens. an entire trinket slot open to whatever you want.. That's bullshit.

Brucimus
09-11-2008, 04:36 PM
If this goes live it's gonna be more game breaking than the 5% health on taurens. an entire trinket slot open to whatever you want.. That's bullshit.

I'm goin to have to throw the QQ hammer at ya Kazey. You know as well as I do that the Horde has always had the superior racials for pvp. There is nothing wrong with a little equality.

Not only does the alliance have mostly crappy racials but we also have to overcome our NELF Huntard/Rougetard issue. I would say if this new human racial goes live. That would even things out just nicely

/wink

Bloodwraith
09-11-2008, 04:43 PM
I thought they made shadowmeld an in combat vanish? (without the threat wipe)

Not that I know of, but that would be pretty awesome.

Bloodwraith
09-12-2008, 12:45 PM
My brother got a beta invite today and hopefully I'll be able to use his account to try out some stuff :D

New Blues:


Sorry we could not get this out ahead of time to give you a head's up.

We have posted in many of the class forums already explaining why you saw so many changes to abilities and numbers this time around. The designers sat down and ran through every spell and talent in the game. We were looking for the following:

-- Mechanics that we didn't think we'd be able to get working right. They might feel off or buggy. For some of these, it was time to change them and move on.
-- Talents that were confusing, trying to do too many things or just weird for some reason.
-- Talents or abilites that gave too much of one class' special abilities to another class. This is a tough one. Sometimes an ability feels so useful that we need to spread the love. Other times we fear the classes are just blending too much together if everyone does the same thing.
-- Looking for talents or abilities that were under or over budget.

Let me explain that last part in a little more detail. We balance most of the game to a budget. We have an idea for example that a talent point should be worth around a 1% dps increase. For a variety of reasons, it doesn't always work out that way and there are plenty of examples of talents that violate that goal -- it's not a hard and fast rule. But there were many talents that were doing too much for their cost. Talents that offer so much for their points quickly become mandatory. They may be fun in that you get a lot for your money, but they work against the design goal of being able to build a customized talent tree for your character. They also make spec parity or class balance a lot harder when there are these inflated numbers scattered throughout the talent trees. Some talents were under-budget and were buffed, but to be fair, most were over-budget, which is just the human nature of designers when we're trying to come up with something cool and exciting.

What this patch was NOT was a comprehensive numbers pass. We didn't nerf you because your healing, dps or mitigation was too good compared to other classes. We really don't have enough data yet to make those conclusions (especially in PvP), but we're getting more and over every day, both internally and from helpful beta testers.

What can you do? Get out there and try out the build. There are probably some cases where we nerfed an ability too far. These changes are not set in stone. The game isn't done. Please try and be clear and concise in your feedback because that makes it a lot easier for the designers and community managers to quickly read your posts. If you lost an ability that you felt you desperately needed or were really excited about, that's useful feedback.

We love all of the classes, and ultimately the best outcome from our point of view is for everyone to be excited to start leveling when Lich King goes live. That means giving you mechanics you're excited about, but it also means not getting destroyed or totally outdone by other classes with talents or spells that are too good.

Hopefully the next patch or two will have more numbers changes to get everyone closer to parity. But I don't need to remind you that this is a big, complex game, and it's going to take some time.



Titan's Grip design philosophy
I'll explain a little bit of our logic here. You might disagree at any step along the way, which would break the chain, but at least you might understand where we're coming from.

-- Being able to use a second two-hander will be too much of a dps increase. It needs some kind of penalty, but not a penalty so stiff that it makes the talent undesirable.
-- A damage penalty on Titan's Grip doesn't feel right. It is essentially turning your two-handed weapons into one-handed weapons. Other that the stat boosts from the two-hander, it doesn't feel like a net gain.
-- A haste penalty on Titan's Grip does bad things to the Fury tree. Two-handed weapons are already slow, and to some extent, Fury is dependent on getting quick hits it.
-- Hit on the other hand, is consistent with the normal penalty for dual-wielding. It is also something you can stack to try and minimize the penalty, even at lower levels. However, if you're stacking more hit than than another warrior, you are giving up other stats, which brings the damage down to what we feel is a safer level (i.e. a net increase for taking the talent, but not an OP one).

It's a cool idea overall, but one that's hard to balance. Unlike many talents, there isn't a lot of granularity to adjust its power. You can't say "You can wield one two-handed weapon and 85% of a second two-handed weapon." You can make the second one hit for 85% damage, but as I suggested above, that starts to feel like you might be better off just looking for two one-handed weapons with more dps on them.

Hope that clears up the intent a little. If we find warriors with Titan's Grip are not able to do reasnable dps (if the talent isn't justified) then we'll adjust the numbers.

Bloodwraith
09-14-2008, 10:23 AM
3.0.2 is out on the PTR!!

Here are the patch notes:

WoW -> Test Realm Patch Notes (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/patchnotes/test-realm-patchnotes.html)

Apparently if you have a activated beta account the PTR won't allow you to sign up but they are working to resolve the issue.

EDIT: This is what I get when I try to copy a char:


The character copy queue is currently full.

Please check back later. We apologize for any inconvenience cause and thank you for your understanding.

Please allow time for the copy process to finish before logging into the test realm.
Check below for the average wait times.

Average Wait Time: 5 days

Guess I'll just play laggy beta instead =P

Here is a link to the PTR Forums:

World of Warcraft (English) Forums -> Test Realm Forum (http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/board.html?forumId=11572)

Kazeyonoma
09-15-2008, 12:19 AM
the ptr is laggy too, i'm on the pvp server as Kazeyonoma if anyone cares to join me.

Bloodwraith
09-15-2008, 12:52 PM
Wrath has been announced for 11/13/08 WOOT

Kazey I just registered for char copy to PTR. It said average wait is 3 days but I'll download the client later today and see if I can hop online :D

Radhja
09-15-2008, 01:12 PM
I got my toon copy about 10-15 hours after, so don't believe everything you read :)

PTR is crash-city today. Look me up later tonight. My name on the PvP realm is "Ajhdara" (yeah, it's "radhja" spelled backwards with an added A... I wasn't feeling very creative after fighting with the PTR downloads, lol)

OMG, BT mob farming is fun as hell. Thank you, Damage Shield. :)

Radhja
09-15-2008, 01:15 PM
I thought they made shadowmeld an in combat vanish? (without the threat wipe)

I heard the same thing from a guildy, but I have yet to see black & white comfirmation, much less a Blue confirm.

In-combat vanish is a great idea, but... meh. I wish we can move, but it's still a great pause button. If there's no threat-wipe, it's a pure pvp move, right?

Bloodwraith
09-15-2008, 06:22 PM
I downloaded PTR, my char was already on there but the world server is down. My char is named bloodwraith :D

Went to try beta, I did one attack on a test dummy and the world server went off on that one too, so I'm SOL right now lol

Bloodwraith
09-16-2008, 05:56 PM
On beta I actually got to play with no lag this afternoon. TG has a ton of potential damage, and when fighting the dummy I had to spam HS just to keep below 100 rage cap. White main hand attacks crit for over 3k sometimes and BT/WW/Bloodsurge Slam proc's are crazy damage. In the Premade PvP gear I was sitting on 21k health, although since the pvp gear quality is blue and no glyphs and other stuff, I could have been hitting even harder.

I also tried on the PTR just now and with all the lag I can barely tell what I'm doing. I don't suggest bothering to download the PTR, there is a long delay on all of your spells and makes any testing/practice pointless until it's fixed.

Kazeyonoma
09-16-2008, 06:38 PM
yeh, the PTR is really slow, i got on but it's still good to do minor testing, see how skills work, damage ranges etc, but don't expect to see anything that you need to pay super attention to, it's too laggy.

Bloodwraith
09-17-2008, 05:16 PM
An interesting new concept for wintergrasp:

From my understanding there is a instance in the wintergrasp zone that is accessible if your team has control of the base. This instance drops epic PvP gear items.

Ukyo
09-17-2008, 10:22 PM
An interesting new concept for wintergrasp:

From my understanding there is a instance in the wintergrasp zone that is accessible if your team has control of the base. This instance drops epic PvP gear items.

Wow, now that's motivation XD

Bloodwraith
09-18-2008, 12:36 PM
New updates to the OP soon. Patch 8962 has been released on the beta.


From my understanding there is a instance in the wintergrasp zone that is accessible if your team has control of the base. This instance drops epic PvP gear items.



Wintergrasp

Explodo-Rockets - Fire the jumpbot's Explodo-Rockets at the targeted destination. Knock enemy jumpbots back and deal 20% damage to them!
Wintergrasp Defeat - Grants the losing team 2500 honor for participating in Wintergrasp.
Wintergrasp Victory - Grants the winning team 5000 Honor for participating in Wintergrasp.
Tenacity - Being outnumbered has increased your tenacity, increasing your health by 25% and your damage by 18%. Up from 12.5% and 5%.


Warrior
Glyph of Revenge changed - Reduces the rage cost of your next Heroic Strike ability by 100%. Lasts 10 sec. (old: After using Revenge, your next Heroic Strike costs no rage.)
Glyph of Sweeping Strikes changed - Generates 30 rage over 12 sec. (old: You generate 30 rage over 12 sec when you use your Sweeping Strikes ability.)

wowhead talent calc is updated to the new patch:

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=L)

According to wotlkwiki these are the warrior changes:


Arms

Two-Handed Weapon Specialization - Now increases the damage you deal with two-handed melee weapons by 2/4/6%, up from 1/2/3/4/5%.
Iron Will - Now reduces the duration of all Stun and Charm effects used against you by 7/14/20%.
Tactical Mastery - Swapped places with Thunderclap.
Fury

Booming Voice - Now 2 ranks, increases area of effect and duration by 25/50%.
Armored to the Teeth - New Tier 1 talent: Increases Strength by 1/2/3 for every 400 armor value you have.
Heroic Leap - Removed. Replaced with Heroic Fury.
Heroic Fury - This ability will remove any Immobilization effects when used.
Booming Voice - Increases the area of effect and duration of your Battle Shout, Demoralizing Shout and Commanding Shout by 25/50%, up from 10/20/30/40/50%.
Bloodthirst - Now restores 0.6% of max health, down from 1.5%.
Rampage - Now also increases Ranged critical hit chance by 5%.
Unending Fury - Removed, "gives your Enraged Assault ability a 6% chance to refresh the cooldown of Bloodthirst."
Armored to the Teeth - Increases your Strength by 1/2/3 for every 400 armor value you have.
Titan's Grip - Allows you to equip two-handed axes, maces and swords in one hand. Also reduces your chance to hit with damage-dealing abilities that require a weapon by 15%.
Protection

Improved Thunderclap - Tier 1 Protection: Now reduces the rage cost of Thunderclap by 1/2/3, increases slowing effect by 4/7/10%, and increases damage by 10/20/30%, down from 40/70/100%.
Toughness - Now reduces the duration of all movement slowing effects by 6/12/18/24/30%, down from 10/20/30/40/50%.
Safeguard - Reduces damage taken by the target of your Intervene ability by 15/30% for 6 sec, down from 30/60%.
Vigilance - Now each time they are hit by an attack your Taunt cooldown is refreshed. Up from max of 3 times.
Intervene - Now also reduces the target's total threat by 10%.
Improved Spell Reflection - Reduces the chance you'll be hit by spells by 2/4% and when the ability is used it will reflect the first spell cast against the 2/4 closest party members.
Warbringer - Now also your Charge, Intercept and Intervene abilities will remove all movement impairing effects.
Safeguard - Removed "your Charge, Intercept and Intervene abilities have a 50% chance to remove all movement impairing effects when used."

Blues:


-- After a long absence, Tactical Mastery returns to tier 2 Arms. Improved Thunder Clap sent packing to tier 1 Protection.
-- Justified Killing removed.
-- Blood Frenzy gets a 3/6% speed buff.
-- Trauma can now be procc'ed by specials in addition to normal swings.
-- Improved Mortal Strike reduced to 3 ranks. Increases damage 3/6/9% and reduces cooldown by 0.3 / 0.6 / 1.
-- Bloodthirst requires a weapon. Just a cosmetic change to make it clear that it's affected by TG's hit penalty.
-- Armored to the Teeth -- tier 1 Fury so everyone can get it. Converts 400 armor into 1/2/3 Strength. Sir, I need you to drop the rogue leather and step away.
-- We had to cut Heroic Leap. Increasingly we were just spending too much of our development time trying to resolve all of the bugs and edge cases of the talent, many relating to getting to bad places in the game (often on accident). Replaced with Heroic Fury removes all immobilization effects and refreshes the cooldown on Intercept. 45 sec cooldown.
-- Unending Fury lowers the cost of Slam, Whirlwind and Bloodthrist by 1 per rank.

Probably others I am forgetting. :)


Blood Frenzy needed a little reward for taking it to buff the group, because it isn't a lot of personal dps increase (2% for 2 points). Rampage on the other hand is 5% crit for 1 point, which we can't imagine any Fury warrior passing up. We might still add something to it though.

Armored to the Teeth ends up being about a 150 AP increase in good gear, fully buffed.

Heroic Leap was flashy and cool and we are sad to see it go, but a lot of design is triage, and we thought it was just going to take too much of our time to get that one ability working correctly that was better spent on other talents.

Arms dps is still a little low, even with these changes, so expect some more tweaks.

Interesting thread on the warrior forums:

World of Warcraft (English) Forums -> EVOLUTION or DEVOLUTION? State of the Warrior (http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=10043235395&sid=1)

Ukyo
09-19-2008, 09:19 PM
Interesting thread on the warrior forums:

World of Warcraft (English) Forums -> EVOLUTION or DEVOLUTION? State of the Warrior (http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=10043235395&sid=1)

I read it, and totally agreed on everything. That's why i made a warrior in the first place, and i don't play any other class. I don't need to, my warrior was fun to play, and i had fun every second i played it. Now, not so much (i'm not even playing anymore, a friend is leeching the 2 weeks that my account had left).

It's like you're 5 years old, and everyone else is freaking 20. Try picking up a fight with a 20 year old when you're 5...

Bloodwraith
09-20-2008, 04:27 PM
8970 Released on beta.

Here's the new stuff:

http://wotlkwiki.info/up2/pages/images/LoadScreenOrgrimmarArena.png

http://wotlkwiki.info/up2/pages/images/LoadScreenDalaranSewersArena.png


Glyph of Spell Reflection - Removed.
Glyph of Last Stand - Reduces the cooldown of your Last Stand ability by 3 min, but also reduces the maximum health gained by 10%.


Arms

Blood Frenzy - Now also increases your attack speed by 6%.
Improved Mortal Strike - Now increases the damage caused by your Mortal Strike ability by 3/6/10% and reduces the cooldown by .33/.67/1 sec.
Bladestorm - Changed from "you can move but cannot perform any other attacks or abilities" to "you can move but cannot perform any other abilities".
Taste for Blood - Now has one charge.
Rend - Base damaged increased from 300 to 450 for max rank.
Fury

Titan's Grip - Chance to hit reduced by 1% (Could be our error)
Battle Shout - Now increases attack power instead of melee attack power.

I'll update OP sometime during the week most likely.

felthor
09-21-2008, 01:18 AM
I wonder if its just my browser fucking up, or if its the forums that cut away part of the talent build links, cause every single one i klick, has only like 30pts spent or something...

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=LcbIdfAVoMhdbMuioE0zZ0h)

id prolly try something like that once i hit lvl 80.. 52/19/0

To bad i miss out on wep mastery, and flurry :<


or 41/30/0

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=LcbIdfAVoMhdbMuioE0zZ0h)

Bloodwraith
09-21-2008, 02:20 PM
I see wrong talent calc's too :mad:

Bloodwraith
09-21-2008, 06:55 PM
This is the spec I'm thinking about with TG for the current build

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=LV0fbfhZGx0sqzubeRikho)

Ukyo
09-21-2008, 09:07 PM
I've been wondering lately, did they got rid of Bloodletting for good? or are they planning on implement it later on?

felthor
09-22-2008, 02:31 AM
well i found something that works, if i right klick a link with talents, and then chose Copy link adress.. i can open a new window and paste the adress...

im using firefox btw, and your TG build looks interesting :)

Edit: i don't seem to be able to view my own trees tho :/ so ill make a list here!

-------------------------------------------------------------
52/19/0

--- Arms ---

5/5 Deflection
3/3 Iron Will
3/3 Tactical Mastery
2/2 Improved Overpower
1/1 Anger Management
2/2 Impale
3/3 Deep Wounds
3/3 Two-Handed Weapon Specialization
1/1 Sweeping Strikes
5/5 Sword Specialization
2/2 Improved Intercept
3/3 Improved Hamstring
2/2 Second Wind
1/1 Mortal Strike
2/2 Strength of Arms
2/2 Improved Slam
3/3 Improved Mortal Strike
1/1 Endless Rage
2/2 Blood Frenzy
5/5 Wrecking Crew
1/1 Bladestorm


--- Fury ---

3/3 Armored to The Teeth
5/5 Cruelty
5/5 Unbridled Wrath
1/1 Piercing Howl
5/5 Commanding Presence



---------------------------------------------------------
41/30/0

--- Arms ---

5/5 Deflection
3/3 Iron Will
2/3 Tactical Mastery
2/2 Improved Overpower
1/1 Anger Management
2/2 Impale
3/3 Deep Wounds
2/3 Two-Handed Weapon Specialization
1/1 Sweeping Strikes
5/5 Sword Specialization
2/2 Improved Intercept
2/3 Improved Hamstring
2/2 Second Wind
1/1 Mortal Strike
2/2 Strength of Arms
2/2 Improved Slam
3/3 Improved Mortal Strike
1/1 Endless Rage


--- Fury ---

3/3 Armored to The Teeth
5/5 Cruelty
5/5 Unbridled Wrath
1/1 Piercing Howl
3/3 Blood Craze
1/1 Death Wish
2/2 Weapon Mastery
5/5 Flurry
5/5 Commanding Presence

TankinEd
09-22-2008, 11:51 AM
Has anyone given a 39/8/24 build a thought for PvP? Something along the lines of

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=LV0GdfhzxfMR0bZhxZbht0gczb)

The 2 points in Unrelenting Assault could be moved where ever but I think being able to use overpower alot more often would help to deal with rogues a little easier. Gag order could be useful in stopping those shatter combos from mages.

Thoughts?

Kazeyonoma
09-22-2008, 08:48 PM
Oh! quick update to you BW. My druid traded his char for a paladin... A full S4, gladiator Druid... for a paladin... Ret I think... Sigh... So much for s4 weapon! ;D Cynocide, lets do dis!

felthor
09-23-2008, 12:24 AM
39/8/24 would be a good way to stop those mages yes, on the other hand im pretty sure you will lack a lot of dps / burst, and from what ive heard warriors are already struggling to keep up with other classes :O

Has anyone crunched some numbers on the new mace spec? how much "dps" do we actually gain from it?

TankinEd
09-23-2008, 05:44 AM
39/8/24 would be a good way to stop those mages yes, on the other hand im pretty sure you will lack a lot of dps / burst, and from what ive heard warriors are already struggling to keep up with other classes :O

Has anyone crunched some numbers on the new mace spec? how much "dps" do we actually gain from it?

I have also heard that warriors are lacking a bit in the DPS department.

In terms of weapon spec, mace looks interesting to say the least. I haven't run the math as I am not a hard core theory crafter. Obviously you could pick whatever weapon spec needed.

I am personally leaning more towards swords and giving this build a shot in 3s and 5s due to the more chaotic nature of those matches. This build I think would play more of a support role in arenas (ie. Keep up MS, stun/silence a healer for a gib). I don't think it has the potential to do well in 2s due largely to that lack of burst but this may be more of a class wide issue at the moment.

Of course this is all speculation seeing as we are still in Beta and I don't think and real testing has been done of the arena environment. :D

bruttall
09-23-2008, 05:50 AM
Axe spec is currently the best at the moment, simply because it 'double-dips' (both increased crit and critical strike damage) and doesn't have the internal cooldown that sword spec does. With the changes to ArP - mace spec (and executioner) will provide different and probably worse results depending on the matchup.

Axes will probably parse out to be top in both PvP and PvE damage because the increased damage stacks with impale. I was seeing some 6600-7600 execute crits on the PTR.

TankinEd
09-23-2008, 08:36 AM
I agree that axes will probably parse out being better. Execute is really not the bext guage of damage increases. MS would be a better comparison.

Kazeyonoma
09-23-2008, 09:02 AM
I do believe the sword spec cooldown got removed a few patches ago according to Serennia.

bruttall
09-23-2008, 10:11 AM
What I'd really like to see is for them to change the improved MS talent to be a % of armor value ignored (20/40/60/80/100) instead of a flat 10% damage bonus. This way, we'd stand up better to plate DPS without doing too much more damage to cloth.

Just an idea....every other class has a way to deal significant damage that isn't reduced by armor except us. This might help out a great deal versus the onslaught of retadins and deathknights we're about to face.

Bloodwraith
09-23-2008, 04:04 PM
Oh! quick update to you BW. My druid traded his char for a paladin... A full S4, gladiator Druid... for a paladin... Ret I think... Sigh... So much for s4 weapon! ;D Cynocide, lets do dis!

Ouch, I'm working on putting together a cleave 5's team right now, although with the upcoming changes and everything, I'm not really doing much arenas. Arena points and honor reset come expansion so nothing to bank up. Announced today:


As many of you know we will be featuring a new Battleground, a dedicated world PvP zone and all new PvP items in Wrath of the Lich King. In order to make the transition from The Burning Crusade to Wrath of the Lich King flow as smoothly as possible, all accrued honor points will be reset at the launch of the expansion. We do this to ensure select players do not have an unfair advantage at level 80 from stockpiling honor to instantly purchase the newest Wrath of the Lich King PvP rewards. For those with unspent honor points prior to the release of the expansion, we will be offering a few upgrades and special rewards in next content patch solely for purchase via the honor system.


Marks of Honor will be wiped as well.

Source (http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=10043252440&sid=1)

Kazeyonoma
09-23-2008, 04:43 PM
hrm, time to bank some honor! ;X

Bloodwraith
09-23-2008, 05:05 PM
I just bought merc 2 handed axe since it's better than reset and I can test out axe spec when the content patch releases if I want to. turned in all the marks I could and I'm back to 13k honor, going to buy merc 1 handed axe next. :p Then we'll see what those special items are for the content patch, I'll prolly save for whatever they are since I don't have anything else to do.

On a side note, I'm pretty fed up with all the people on the warrior forums whining and talking about rerolling and those types of things. The beta is no where near done.

Kazeyonoma
09-23-2008, 05:20 PM
haha, i might do that too, trading in marks. I've got so many if they're gonna get wiped out, why keep em.

Bloodwraith
09-23-2008, 05:23 PM
yeah I had like 30-40 av, 70 eots, 70 wsg, and around 30 AB's :D

Got 10k honor today.

Bloodwraith
09-23-2008, 05:42 PM
According to wowhead these are new level 70 PvP items(I assume these are the "special items" that were hinted at in the above blue post):

The Gladiator's Resolution - Item - World of Warcraft (http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?item=41592)

Battlemaster's Resolve - Item - World of Warcraft (http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?item=41589)

Battlemaster's Aggression - Item - World of Warcraft (http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?item=41588)

Battlemaster's Celerity - Item - World of Warcraft (http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?item=41587)

Schleppy
09-23-2008, 08:18 PM
What the hell is armor penetration rating like on the glad's resolution?

Ukyo
09-23-2008, 10:15 PM
interesting, me likes the cloak, might be a good idea to start playing again =O!

Bloodwraith
09-24-2008, 12:31 PM
Patch 8892 Changes once I see a list somewhere.

They updated the above mentioned thread to include the new items and changes:


As many of you know we will be featuring a new Battleground, a dedicated world PvP zone and all new PvP items in Wrath of the Lich King. In order to make the transition from The Burning Crusade to Wrath of the Lich King flow as smoothly as possible, all accrued honor points will be reset at the launch of the expansion. We do this to ensure select players do not have an unfair advantage at level 80 from stockpiling honor to instantly purchase the newest Wrath of the Lich King PvP rewards. For those with unspent honor points prior to the release of the expansion, we will be offering a few upgrades and special rewards in next content patch solely for purchase via the honor system.

Update:
All of the gems that can be purchased with honor will have the Bind on Pickup and Unique-Equipped tags removed so multiples of them can be equipped and they can be traded (or auctioned). The new items that will be available are:

Cloak of Certain Reprieve
Binds when picked up
Back
130 Armor
+42 Stamina
+18 Intellect
Requires Level 70
Equip: Improves your resilience rating by 28 (0.71% @ L70).
Equip: Restores 8 mana per 5 sec.
Equip: Increases spell power by 33.

Sergeant's Reinforced Cape
Binds when picked up
Back
130 Armor
+42 Stamina
+26 Intellect
Requires Level 70
Equip: Improves your resilience rating by 30 (0.76% @ L70).
Equip: Increases spell power by 33.

The Gladiator's Resolution
Binds when picked up
Back
130 Armor
+42 Stamina
Requires Level 70
Equip: Improves critical strike rating by 26 (1.18% @ L70).
Equip: Improves your resilience rating by 20 (0.51% @ L70).
Equip: Increases attack power by 56.
Equip: Increases your armor penetration rating by 18

Volanthius Shroud
Binds when picked up
Back
130 Armor
+42 Stamina
Requires Level 70
Equip: Improves critical strike rating by 19 (0.86% @ L70).
Equip: Improves your resilience rating by 28 (0.71% @ L70).
Equip: Improves haste rating by 18 (1.14% @ L70).
Equip: Increases spell power by 33

Battlemaster's Resolve
Binds when picked up
Trinket
Requires Level 70
Equip: Increases attack power by 120.
Use: Increases maximum health by 1750 for 15 sec. Shares cooldown with other Battlemaster's trinkets. (3 Min Cooldown)

Battlemaster's Courage
Binds when picked up
Trinket
Requires Level 70
Equip: Increases spell power by 70.
Use: Increases maximum health by 1750 for 15 sec. Shares cooldown with other Battlemaster's trinkets. (3 Min Cooldown)

Battlemaster's Celerity
Binds when picked up
Trinket
Requires Level 70
Equip: Improves haste rating by 60 (3.8% @ L70).
Use: Increases maximum health by 1750 for 15 sec. Shares cooldown with other Battlemaster's trinkets. (3 Min Cooldown)

Battlemaster's Aggression
Binds when picked up
Trinket
Requires Level 70
Equip: Improves critical strike rating by 60 (2.72% @ L70).
Use: Increases maximum health by 1750 for 15 sec. Shares cooldown with other Battlemaster's trinkets. (3 Min Cooldown)

Kazeyonoma
09-24-2008, 02:05 PM
mmm, 60 crit rating .... or the 120 AP... or the new cloak. by jove, I think they've got it!

Bloodwraith
09-24-2008, 02:51 PM
Yeah, I have something to save for now. :D

These seem to be the new build changes:


Fury

Titan's Grip - now reduces your chance to hit with damage-dealing ability that require a weapon by 15%.
Protection

Vigilance - Now reduces the damage taken by the group or raid target by 3%.

Kazeyonoma
09-24-2008, 03:10 PM
sooo... no change to TG basically.

lol
and how much honor do those costs, cuz i am not likely to get enough honor before the expansion lol.

Bloodwraith
09-24-2008, 03:15 PM
Wowhead is not up atm it seems. If I remember correctly they were 20k for cloak and 35k for trinket.

TankinEd
09-25-2008, 12:32 PM
How does that new cloak compare to Dory's?

Bloodwraith
09-25-2008, 04:40 PM
How does that new cloak compare to Dory's?


The Gladiator's Resolution (ilvl 156)
Binds when picked up
Back
130 Armor
+42 Stamina
Requires Level 70
Equip: Improves critical strike rating by 26 (1.18% @ L70).
Equip: Improves your resilience rating by 20 (0.51% @ L70).
Equip: Increases attack power by 56.
Equip: Increases your armor penetration rating by 18



Dory's Embrace (ilvl 136)
Binds when picked up
Back
114 Armor
+34 Stamina
Requires Level 70
Equip: Improves critical strike rating by 20
Equip: Improves your resilience rating by 20
Equip: Increases attack power by 46.
Equip: Your attacks ignore 112 of your opponent's armor.
"Approximately priceless."


When wowhead wasn't down I think the ilvl was higher.

Kazeyonoma
09-26-2008, 09:17 AM
basically the new one is better, it's literally a higher ilvl version of Dory's so it's worth grabbing if you've got the points.

Oh and BW, when we gonna duel man! Uhh, so my druid didn't trade his account away, he just OBTAINED another account with a paladin in it and he's been playing that exclusively. Lol.

Bloodwraith
09-26-2008, 12:40 PM
basically the new one is better, it's literally a higher ilvl version of Dory's so it's worth grabbing if you've got the points.

Oh and BW, when we gonna duel man! Uhh, so my druid didn't trade his account away, he just OBTAINED another account with a paladin in it and he's been playing that exclusively. Lol.

I almost already have 20k honor again. I'm holding off on buying the 1 handed axe so I can save up for the new items. (AV weekend woot)

Well atleast he didn't trade his druid away. As for our duel, the difference in our time zones makes it hard to both be on at the same time :mad: I'll try to check chatbox more often to see if you're online.

Btw I'll probably update the OP this weekend if I get a chance.

Kazeyonoma
09-26-2008, 02:14 PM
sounds good. one of these days the epic battle with happen... and you'll have to fraps it.

Bloodwraith
09-26-2008, 04:36 PM
Blues:


Warrior
Arms Talent Feedback
This thread is a little bit different from some of the others I've started, because I'm going to povide a little more direction on a few specific talents. This is a discussion of ARMS however. Also note that we want the tree to be both PvE and PvP viable so keep that in mind when responding.

First, we're not dramatically overhauling warrior stances. At least not now. We have talked about it quite a bit, and it's something we might do in the future, but it does require a lot discussion. So we aren't taking away the penalties and we aren't adding a bonus to Arms for now. However, if there are less dramatic changes that totally "fix" Battle Stance for you, feel free to mention those. An example might be putting Pummel into Arms (perhaps with a talent).

Second, Bladestorm. Currently it allows you to use white attacks and we're inclined to leave it that way. It can do an awful lot of damage right now, so I hope your feedback isn't that it doesn't hit hard enough. I know several people want it to break fear instead of just prevent it.

Third, Sudden Death. Some people love it because it's actually a decision when it lights up. Other people hate it for the same reason.

Fourth, Wrecking Crew. This is pretty much just a discussion of the Enrage mechanic, unless you just think the numbers are off or something.

I shouldn't need to remind you of this, and many of you will probably disagree anyway, but warriors are exceedinly difficult to balance. Because of the way rage works, it is really easy to make warriors too weak or too powerful and hard to hit the sweet spot. And yes, you are very gear-dependent. (src)

Fury Talent Feedback
With one exception. No Titan's Grip talk permitted.
I know you want to talk about it some more, but the topic has a tendency to fill up every thread into which it sneaks. I want to make sure other Fury issues get ample coverage. Anything else is open game. (src)

General warrior Q/A (src)
How do you feel about the heavily random nature of the arms tree?
There's always been a bit of that compared to Fury.

Why does bladestorm have a self-CC element? Why doesn't it remove CC, stuns, snares or roots on use? Will this be reconsidered?
It does great dps. It would be too good if you could do other stuff too and too good if you could Intercept someone down. We might reconsider the CC issue, but really that's the kind of thing to pop out of PvP testing.

Are there any plans to make the improved charge and improved heroic strike talents not bad? Less bad?
We buffed Imp Charge recently. Imp Heroic Strike might seem a little bland, but that may be because we've changed a lot of the old talents in various trees that used to do simple things like this. Heroic really does hit like a truck now, so I assume your issue is what the talent does to rage cost?

Why was enrage's bonus damage reduced so severely? Would you consider allowing deathwish to stack again now that the bonus is so low?
Because we changed it from "be crit" to "be hurt." We might consider letting it stack.

Does the hamstring glyph stack with the improved hamstring talent?
That is the intent.

Have you looked at the math supplied by Torgal and company that demonstrates titans grip isn't such a massive increase as you think it is? If their numbers are correct, then what is your stance?
Our numbers say differently. I haven't looked to see where they differ. I'll try to get to that.

You say you don't want any single talent point giving a 10% damage increase (as for example.) On 25-man Kel'thuzad and Sapphiron last night, mortal strike amounted to approximately 17% of my total damage done. On Sapphiron, slam was approximately 40% of total damage. Will mortal strike, bloodthirst or improved slam be nerfed based on your talent budgeting?
No. That's not a hard and fast rule. In your example though, if you had not used Mortal Strike or Slam you probably would have used the rage for something else. In the case of TG though we do have serious concerns about it being too good (sans a stiff penalty). While we might change our minds after more data, you're not going to change our mind by pointing out logical inconsistencies in talent trees. There are plenty of them. :)

Do you see the glyph of resonating power (Increases the maximum targets affected by your Thunder Clap ability by 4) as being mandatory for tanking? If yes, do you feel that's acceptable? If no, why not?
It's not mandatory, and actually it only increases your radius. Thunder Clap will do what you want it to do, but that's another topic.

Can you offer an approximation of the proc rate/PPM on furious attacks?
It's a frequency-based proc. It's a little complicated to explain but you might compare it to Omen of Clarity. I'll try to get back to this later.

Are there any plans to make unending fury not bad? Less bad? Seriously, it's really really bad.
Yeah, this one doesn't feel done.

Do you feel that Vigilance is currently worth the talent point? If no, what is being done to fix it?
It's pretty uber if we're talking about the same version.

Damage shield is, according to some very basic testing, not generating threat from damage dealt. Can you confirm this? If so, is this intended?
It appears to generate threat based on the damage done. But there might be a bug.

Are there any plans to buff revenge baseline so that it's worth injecting into rotations for protection?
Putting it into Sword and Board is something we are discussing.

Do you feel that shockwave is, or should be, our be-all answer to AoE threat generation? Is there any chance of lowering the cooldown?
No, we don't want it to be your go-to AE ability, because then Arms and Fury can never tank a 5-player dungeon very well. We want it to be useful obviously.

Is it possible to give Disarm the same functionality as rogue's Dismantle, or at least, the removed Shield Break skill?
I'll have to investigate this.

Do you feel heroic throw is strong or interesting enough for a level 80 skill?
Yes.

The devs seem to have originally planned several means for warriors to interact with the new enrage mechanics. Will enraged regeneration and the rend bonus be all that we see for the expansion, or is more being considered? Specifically, enraged assault.
The problem we had with Enraged Assault was our warrior testers and designers didn't feel like they had enough GCDs to work another attack into their rotations. It was just too much. I love the idea though (it wasn't mine) so I wouldn't say never.

While you're doing numbers passes, any chance of restoring flurry to its original 30% bonus? Compare it to shamans flurry and it's clearly underbudgeted.
It all depends at this point on whether shamans or warriors are doing too much damage.

Will we be seeing any sort of "good raid-slave" bonus for warriors who take rampage, given the overwhelming presence of feral druids across the raiding scene?
That is in the long-term plan. On the other hand, we can't really imagine a warrior skipping that talent because it is so useful solo. Mostly, we need to make sure the big raid buff overhaul really works the way we want it to.

Why was the healing component of bloodthirst nerfed?
We thought it was too good, though to be honest, there are clandestine whispers echoing through our offices in the dead of night to change it back.

Do you think some of the design is being rushed by the looming deadline?
Nope. We just can't worry about stuff like that or one of two things would happen: we'd get rushed and sloppy, or we'd just keep delaying the release. Class design, item design, talent design and game balance are never realy done, so we just keep working on them.
The truth is we can release stuff on a day one patch. We'll also have [a period] in between the 3.0 patch and the actual release of Lich King in which we'll get more time to see the new talents and mechanics in action before everyone starts leveling again. And then there are hotfixes, mini-patches (there will doubtless be a few) and then big content patches.
We have enough experienced people on the team now who have been through this a couple of times that we plan on being able to respond to problems in a timely fashion.
But since we can't wait until everything is 100% perfect (because it never is) it doesn't make much sense to worry about the impending release either.


Some PTR Spec Testing: World of Warcraft (English) Forums -> PTR Warrior Numbers 8982 (http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html;jsessionid=DA3362EE66C2109C1891A210AF9 73B80.app05_05?topicId=10544536083&sid=1)

New Cloak costs: 20k honor and 20 AB Marks

New battlemaster's costs: 35k honor and 40 AV Marks

Bloodwraith
09-27-2008, 01:12 PM
OP Updated to the current patch :D

What do you guys think?

Bloodwraith
09-27-2008, 05:51 PM
I just tried the new arenas on beta. They both seem pretty interesting.

Did a couple minutes on strand of the ancients too. Seems the only person I can beat is another TG warrior lol. The miss penalty is crazty especially since I only get 54 hit rating from PvP gear.

EDIT: Warrior PvP Thread - Page 72 - Elitist Jerks (http://elitistjerks.com/f38/t11182-warrior_pvp_thread/p72/#post908383)

Spreadsheet for 3.0 weapon spec choices.

Ukyo
09-28-2008, 01:10 AM
I'm guessing mid-October the new patch hits the Live servers, right? i'm trying to calculate my coming back when the new items pop up xP!

Bloodwraith
09-28-2008, 09:31 AM
The haven't announced it's released but I assume that's about when it would come out. It would give them about a month to test how things go on live and on beta.

Schleppy
09-28-2008, 03:18 PM
I'm curious what you guys think of all pvp gear having arena point requirements in wrath? Sure, for the first few months everyone will be running around in pve gear until enough arena points are gained to get full arena sets+offitems. Now granted lake wintergrasp gives arena points in beta for winners and looser, but they have never mentioned whether that will remain or not when wrath goes live, and if it remains what the values for win/loss will get set at.

To me, that seems like they are trying to inject some players into the arena system by forcing everyone to arena who wants any pvp gear, not just the best stuff. It also means "S1" of wrath will be dominated by players who spend the time to get the best pve gear, then translate that gear advantage into quick ratings and get a bigger advantage especially when you look at the 2 levels of "rating required" gear. If they keep the arena point givout for lake wintergrasp (which I dont think they will, and if they do it will be a real small payout), it will also mean that the wintergrasp area will be quite insane with people looking to pick up "free arena points" and even further dilute the "sanctity" of the arena system itself.

Bloodwraith
09-30-2008, 12:44 PM
OP Updated to this point.

Now for new blues and news:


As promised, here are a few dps changes. There will probably be a few more over the next few days.

Fury
- Unending Fury changed to increase damage of Slam, Whirlwind and Bloodthirst by 2/4/6/8/10% (it no longer offers a rage discount).

Arms
- Sudden Death now grants 10 rage, so that following the Execute you have 10 rage left over. In the course of testing this, we also decided Execute by itself wasn't doing enough damage, so it got a buff too (could be around +15%), which will also help the talent.
- Bladestorm breaks roots and snares when initially used. It doesn't break other forms of CC, largely because we suspect that if it did, that functionality in PvP would overshadow the actual cool whirlwindy part.
- Strength of Arms now grants 2%/2%/2 Str/Sta/Expertise per point. (Still 2 points total.)


We've revaluated certain aspects of how the arena system and current arena season will be affected during both the next content patch, and the launch of Wrath of the Lich King. For starters, the current arena season will end in respect to the ladder upon the release of our next major patch. What this means is, we'll be taking a snapshot of the current season's ladder just before the realms are taken down for patch maintenance, and our normal process will commence to determine who is eligible for the end-of-season rewards. Teams and ratings will not be wiped at that time, and will carry forward allowing players to earn points each week (and buy gear) until the launch of the expansion on November 13th. Almost immediately before Wrath of the Lich King releases, all arena teams as well as ratings will be wiped and arena charter NPCs disabled.

Kazeyonoma
09-30-2008, 02:57 PM
wow, so they're gonna end season 4 short... It took forever to come out, and then it got cut short, wth, i no likey.

the changes are pretty decent though, 10% damage to 3 core abilities are much better than rage. Good for non-TG builds too.

SD giving 10 rage after firing it off is pretty amazing... doesn't that mean... well, at least at <20% if you're spec'd imp execute in fury, you can continuously execute without any rage issues ever? (go go equip as much stat increasing or ArP weapons at that point cuz the dps won't matter!)

Change to Str of Arms is pretty good, getting some expertise in there makes it nice for a dps increase to pve Arms as well.

But man, the content patch ending the season makes me sad panda, i only got my duelist title for 4 months =(

Bloodwraith
09-30-2008, 03:04 PM
I'm not really mad about it. They couldn't really let all the changes ruin what everyone has worked toward this season.

Nice new name color Kazey :D

Kazeyonoma
09-30-2008, 03:26 PM
I'm not saying they should let it ruin it, I'm just confused as to the timing. but I guess that's how they had to do it. and yes I think my color is very pr3tty =x

Bloodwraith
09-30-2008, 04:00 PM
Yeah they should have shortened S3 so this season could have a normal duration.


and yes I think my color is very pr3tty =x

/envy :D

Bloodwraith
09-30-2008, 06:07 PM
Build 9014:


Arms
Sword Specialization - This effect cannot occur more than once every 6 seconds.
Fury
Armored of the Teeth - Increases your attack power by 1/2/3 for every 180 armor value you have. (old version: Increases your Strength by 1/2/3 for every 400 armor value you have).
Protection
Shield Bash - Damage increased. (Rank Blah - X damage.)
Thunder Clap - Maximum targets removed.
Revenge - Damage increased (Now Rank 9 - [1454.0 + AP * 0.207] to [1776.0 + AP * 0.207]) (Old Rank 9 - [652.0 + AP * 0.093] to [796.0 + AP * 0.093])
Sword and Board - Now effects Revenge.
Shield Slam - Damage increased (Now Rank 8 - 990 to 1040 damage) (Old Rank 8 - 756 to 794 Damage)

Honor switcheroo:


We had hoped that the introduction of some new Honor rewards in the upcoming patch would give players a great opportunity to spend any of their remaining Honor. However, many players would still be surprised by an Honor and token reset as it isn’t something we’ve done in the past. As such, we've decided to not reset Honor or tokens upon the release of Wrath of the Lich King. Players who save their Honor will be able to spend it on level 80 rewards, although those rewards will be significantly more expensive than their level 70 counterparts.

Kazeyonoma
09-30-2008, 07:29 PM
Wowza.

Bloodwraith
10-01-2008, 12:39 PM
More newz:


Ghost is out for the rest of the evening so I thought I would make a quick post regarding a new warrior change. Berserker Rage will now be usable in all stances.

Enjoy!


We’re currently planning to end the fourth Arena season on October 14, 2008, and as always -- this date could easily change. This Arena Season is only ending in respect to the ladder, meaning we'll be taking a snapshot of the season's ladder and then go through our normal process to determine who is eligible for the end-of-season rewards. This process should take approximately one week. It's very important for players who feel that they may be eligible for the arena-specific title and/or Armored Nether Drake to refrain from transferring their character to another realm between the date outlined above, and when the end-of-season rewards are physically awarded.

Upon the end of this Arena Season, teams and ratings will not be wiped, and will carry forward allowing players to earn points each week and purchase gear until the launch of the expansion (November 13, 2008).

Kazeyonoma
10-01-2008, 02:15 PM
sooo, guess that's when 3.0 is expected to go live too.. 2 weeks. we got two weeks Cyno, lets do dis.

BW we need to duel before 3.0 comes out! Otherwise you'll never stand a chance against my prot gear!

And yeh, TG Fury for pvp, is pretty bad. Full Arms, isn't bad, i can see it being viable with a healer just like it is now, good damage, Bladestorm = good damage if you can stick to the person, and lots of bleeding damage is good. But no piercing howl is really rough. Prot pvp is definitely the winner right now on the PTR in solo 1v1 duels, survivability + damage = win.

Right now it's like this:
TG Fury:
Damage output: B- (high miss = streaky rage in pvp situations) My BT crits sometimes as low as 900 damage... against plate, Seriously there is no burst in this unless I get a ton of crits to go off. But due to the following that rarely happens.

Mobility: B It's not bad, with heroic fury you get two intercepts and a root break. Not that bad but 25-30 second intercept cd sucks, warriors are always in the B range for mobility.

Survivability: D, seriously, you need to be in zerker stance or you lose half of your talented abilities. You take a ton of damage, and with no Second wind you get eaten up FAST. I literally died by rogues before I got out of stun lock, I'd get 3 shotted by ret paladins, I'd get frost nova-kite-boomed in a few seconds. It just blows.

Bladestorm Arms:
Damage Output:A- of the 3 specs, I say this one has the highest burst still, because well it uses two handers, but unlike TG Fury, there isn't a huge miss penalty, and Mortal Strike still hits hard, especially spec'd 5/5 Imp MS. Bladestorm when used properly is REALLY strong, against plate it may not seem like much but against a fully sundered enemy or even a non-plate wearer, you can see chain crits every second. I chain crit an elemental shaman for 1800 range 5 times while blade storming, while he was MS'd and Hamstrung.


Mobility: B+/A-. With Improved Intercept bringing our cd to 15-20 seconds, this is a big life saver. Likewise pre-emptively using Bladestorm to avoid a CC is also really good. I rank this higher than heroic fury because well, every 15 seconds being able to use intercept has proven more useful than being able to do 2 intercepts really close together then waiting 30 seconds for another one to come. You need to be able to do it over and over again, not just twice. And improved Hamstring makes it so that you effectively make your mobility better, but hurting the enemies mobility.


Survivability: B-. Second wind helps a lot, as does the stam from one of the new talents. I dunno what it is exactly but I survive way longer as Arms than I do as TG fury.

Prot PvP:
Damage Output:B+, there is a lot of potential damage from prot pvp, from our now AP scaling attacks, uber revenge or being able to pop shield block then shield slam for 3k+ we've got the Burstability we've always wanted. Plus being able to stun someone while doing 1800 damage, then stunning again for another 1k damage, all while beating on them means LOTS of undodgeable damage. It's really quite good. And against melee damage shield is eating them alive.


Mobility: A/A+. Why is this ranked higher? Well for one, charge is on a 15 second cd untalented, and it gives rage, And it has a short stun, AND now you can use it in all stances, AND the use of it forces you out of any movement impairing effects. Basically, you can charge to initial attack, stun them if they immobilize you, beat on them, chase them, intercept when they put up another immobilize/blink, charge them if they try again. basically just being in a state of constant freedom, ALL while gaining rage everytime you charge. The whole: well you won't generate rage as prot pvp if people don't focus you, Is FALSE, you get a lot because of charge and your white damage.


Survivability:A+. Can you say nearly unkillable? I swapped out my battlemasters trinket for commendation. And well, lets just say that against other melee, I become impervious to damage after 35%. AND all that extra stam I have for being in tank mode, having vitality. Having shield reflect on call without a macro, having HUGE armor values. All the while staying mobile AND putting pressure on dps. Truly, prot pvp has come a LOOONG way.

I know what I'm gonna do when 3.0 comes out, I'm gonna find me another dps and run double dps Prot Warrior/X. You don't want a healer in this makeup, you probably won't be able to take down another healer/dps team without mortal strike, so find a rogue, hunter, or MS warrior to put up the debuff and go to town as you stun lock people in place for your other dps teammate to unload.

Bloodwraith
10-01-2008, 03:10 PM
I'm personally leaning towards Arms spec. Fury isn't a viable choice as of right now (I'd love it to be). Prot does seem nice, but I personally prefer beating on someone with a 2 hander vs. a one hander and shield. :D

When can you be on this weekend for the duel? (Server time)

Kazeyonoma
10-02-2008, 09:28 AM
not sure, why don't you tell me when you're on and i'll try to log on for a quick 30 minutes.

Bloodwraith
10-02-2008, 12:27 PM
Tonight I'll be on around 8:00 server for an hour or so.

Friday,Saturday, and Sunday I'll be on around 7:00 server for 3-4 hours.

Bloodwraith
10-02-2008, 12:44 PM
Some stuff on a new arena system:


There will be a new, persistent rating system that should keep top-rated players facing other top-rated players, regardless of the bracket in which their current team sits. We'll have more information to come on this soon.


Just to confirm the previous reply; this was only temporary during the beta. You will not be able to collect Arena points from Lake Wintergrasp.

Bloodwraith
10-02-2008, 06:55 PM
WotLK Beta (US-English) Forums -> Ghost, let's talk PvP for a change (http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=10638058742&sid=2000)

Serenn warrior PvP thread on beta forums.