PDA

View Full Version : Me or My Healer?



Mathorn
07-02-2008, 06:48 AM
I'm sitting at around 14k+ in armor, nearly 13k in health, and exactly 490 defense. By all accounts I surpass the entry requirements for Kara and I believe heroics as well.

A week ago a guild group and I stepped into Heroic Ramps, our first attempt at heroics as we've only relatively recently turned 70th. We pulled the first pair o' orcs.... and were brutally slaughtered. I held agro with little problems, for the 5-10 seconds that I lived. We determined that our healer, a resto druid was simply way undergeared with only 500 +healing. Spent the next week getting her (and the rest of us) better geared.

Last night we stepped into Heroic Slave Pens. Pulled the first trio of crabs... and were even more brutally slaughtered. My gear's better than it was a week ago. The healer is up to almost 1k +healing (still a bit low, but nowhere near as bad). Yet the crabs ate me in seconds.

This same group can handle regular instances with ease, up to and including Arc and Shadow Labs. I'm fairly good at holding agro, and the DPSers are good at focusing fire. In regular instances the healer is excellent at keeping us alive. Am I missing something? Are we just way off base about the gear requirements for these heroics? Or do we just need to focus on improving our healing strategy?

Shortypop
07-02-2008, 06:52 AM
How many crabs did you cc?

hbombs
07-02-2008, 06:55 AM
I simply dont know. link you and your healers armory pls. I wont be able to check them from work but others will.

Are you trying any CC. In slave pens you dont have to tank all three crabs. Allthough honestly it shouldnt be a problem. With 1k heals and your stats you guys should be fine all the way to the bosses atleast.

IMO its your healer thats at fault here. Resto druids are not the best 5 man healers by any means so an undergeared resto druid is gonna have a real hard time most likely.

Mathorn
07-02-2008, 07:04 AM
I'm at The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Moonrunner&n=Mathorn)

Healer's at The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Moonrunner&n=Myrae)

We didn't try to cc any of the crabs on the first pull. We have a warlock that can seduce one, but we wanted to test our ability to handle the first three absent the cc. We figured if we couldn't handle the first three, then we'd be in serious trouble further in if a cc failed or a pull went bad.

Leytur
07-02-2008, 09:57 AM
It's an easy answer. Druids rely mainly on HoTs. If she's not getting HoTs up immediately you're not getting the effect soon enough of all the stacks. Experience druid healers are the bomb. New druid healers scare me.

Heroics and 10 mans require healers to almost always constantly casting heals. They can interrupt if you don't need it. But they should get in the habit of casting a heal BEFORE you need it. Not after. That makes a ton of difference.

marklar
07-02-2008, 05:08 PM
if you are holding agro, then it's gotta be your healer. the problem is likely that she's not used to healing heroics. your gear is fine, but you simply take way more damage in heroics than regular instances, and you can't have a healer who's healing reactively. i freaked out the first time i stepped in a heroic (ramps) when i saw how hard those orcs were hitting me.

SP and ramps are two of the easiest heroics, so keep working on them before you try others. CC is enormously helpful, so always try and bring as much as you can. mage, rogue, lock is my favorite dps makeup.

uglybbtoo
07-02-2008, 11:19 PM
I'm at The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Moonrunner&n=Mathorn)

Healer's at The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Moonrunner&n=Myrae)

We didn't try to cc any of the crabs on the first pull. We have a warlock that can seduce one, but we wanted to test our ability to handle the first three absent the cc. We figured if we couldn't handle the first three, then we'd be in serious trouble further in if a cc failed or a pull went bad.

You have to cc at least 1 crab no way will you be able to take them all at your level of gear.

Couple of logistical problems for you to think about how many shield block charges do you have and how many crabs? So what do you think happens when you run out of charges and you get hit?

Next the crabs are fat I mean really fat they don't want to sit ontop of each other they tend to try and spread out around you. Are you aware what happens if a crab gets on the side of you? If you are going to try this be aware you will need to keep moving slowly to keep them infront of you.

Final thing initial agro isnt going to last very long your healer is going to be healing you like crazy so you are going to rotate thru each of the targets and hit it ... I mean really hit it with a big stick to keep it from going to healer ... you simply do not have the gear to generate that sort of agro.

Vissara
07-03-2008, 09:55 AM
Having 70 Priest I can honestly say your healer is undergeared for heroics. Several unenchanted items and some mid 60s gear. There's a lot better out there.

The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Archimonde&n=Katrak)

A bit of my gear is crafted and will last through Kara. Other parts of it are rep bought or lvl 70 instance drops. I do have some heroic/badge pieces in there, but I was at roughly 1200/1300 healing before I started heroics. (don't mind the riding crop its usually a Lower City Prayerbook )

Your gear is fine. I would suggest trying to pick up a little more avoidance to help. Dabiri's Enigma is very easy to get. I would also look at getting the dodge rating enchant on your cloak. But definately bring along CC. Run SP, UB to start in heroics. Ramps and BF hit a lot harder than the others (which is strange considering they're the lowest level reg instances).

uglybbtoo
07-03-2008, 02:31 PM
Sorry I dont care if he has the A1 healer nothing short of a miracle is going to stop him getting smashed and even if the healer can hold him up he is going to very fast lose agro to them he needs some thought about that and the theorycraft on tanking.

Let me dumb it down

1. Your shield block has limited charges the more mobs you have the more likely those charges will be used once gone you will be hit and in heroic an unmitigated hit is very hard.

2. Your ability to block relies on the target being infront of you if it is not that mob can unmitigated hit and crit you.

3. If you start taking massive damage and your healer is healing like mad you need to generate an equal threat on each to counter the agro being generated by your heals from the healer. Unlike a single target tank however you have to cycle targets as well as keep shield block up and must get back thru the targets before certain effects wear off etc.


Multitanking hard hitting mobs without CC is amongst the hardest thing you can do as a tank it takes lots of practice. It is highly recomended you dont try it with more than 2 at start and to be honest many 1st time heroic tanks will do solo loading up on 3 CC.

Clysmic
07-03-2008, 06:35 PM
It can be a little daunting running into heroics to start with. I remember my first few attempts as Ramps as a new heroic tank. I got smashed, and it gave my confidence a massive hit. I didn't want to go back for a long time after that.

Something that you need to consider is the class of healer you're running with. While all classes are capable healers, you style of tanking has to change accordingly.

Whenever im running with a Druid healer (depending on gear and skill) it can make sence to pop an avoidance trinket or stun an enemy to start with, just to give the HOTs time to kick in and the healer to get on top of the damage. I liken druid healers to diesel trucks. Once they get started they will go all day without stopping.

With priests its a little different. For one, you're getting an extra stam buff, but with PoM and the greater heals, I'm more comfortable running in, dropping consecrate and tanking 4 or 5 without breaking a sweat. I think priests are the best all round healers for my play style.

Pally's are the Ferraries of healing. Those suckers just spam heals and can a single target topped up, just make sure you have all the agro, cuase putting pressure on a pally healer to heal multiple targets can be a little unhelpfull.

In short,starting Heroics with a druid healer will require some CC and some effort to max your avoidance. Doing this and taking everything slow and steady will have you making it to the end.

Shadevarr
07-16-2008, 09:50 AM
SP was my first heroic that I tanked. Went in there with 11.5 health and 14k armor. I was a lot less geared than the OP. I had a resto druid (just respecced resto for this instance for the 1st time) with ~+1400 healing. We were doing good until the 1st defender pull and I dropped like a sack of bricks. A few more times on the pull, same result. We concluded that the druid needed to up his game a bit and probably heal out of tree form for most of the instance.

CC, use all you can and enjoy it. Start using less CC when you can't hold aggro from the healer.