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View Full Version : 2-Handed Fury Q's (21/40 or 20/41)



Brainwreck
07-02-2008, 12:50 AM
Hey guys, I have read the Slam DPS guide stickied above, and noticed that in the guide it mentioned a 2H Fury DPS build that will outdps all others if you have good enough gear. That being either 21/40 with deathwish and no rampage, or the 20/41 w/out deathwish and rampage. My question is, will this build really outdps even DW fury? The only reason i ask is because i see people with the best gear out of BT, and cat's edge, and they are still 33/28.

The issue might be that they are the only BF warrior in their guild, but this is not a problem in my situation. We have another 33/28 BF warrior which has good attendance, so im trying to find out how i can produce the most DPS. The guide above states 3k ATP as the standard, which i can meet, so yeah im just looking to hear from personal users of the spec.

Another question is, I have 36% crit raid buffed, since i roll with a feral druid in my group, can i drop crit to stack even more ATP? Or is 30-32% crit raid buffed too low?

Thanks for any input.

Gorgrim Warcry
07-02-2008, 02:37 AM
No I don't think you will out dps a 1 handed fury builds dps.

I would think 20/41 would make more dps.

It's about the the extra 4% damage for melee, not the dps.

If you want leet dps, dual weild fury is the way to go, and if you go that route you providie less to the raid than a 33/28 warriors will. So just reroll a rogue if you want to see the big damage done numbers, or spec 33/28 and be a benefit to your guild.

Arrivan
07-02-2008, 02:45 AM
No I don't think you will out dps a 1 handed fury builds dps.

I would think 20/41 would make more dps.

It's about the the extra 4% damage for melee, not the dps.

If you want leet dps, dual weild fury is the way to go, and if you go that route you providie less to the raid than a 33/28 warriors will. So just reroll a rogue if you want to see the big damage done numbers, or spec 33/28 and be a benefit to your guild.

They already have a Blood Frenzy warrior in their raid. In that case, 17/44 fury will produce the highest possible DPS. Pick up the badge fists if you don't have them or better (better being pretty much Warglaives or stuff from Sunwell) and dual wield, it'll produce better results. I think the guide meant that a 2H fury build will out DPS all other 2H specs. I highly doubt it could outdo DW fury.

I wouldn't reroll unless you really want to play a rogue. It's not as much like a fury warrior as you might think.

While I'm editing, I might as well answer your second question. You don't want to sacrifice too much crit, but if you can pick up more AP from regemming slightly then go ahead and do so. Most warriors socket everything that they don't need to activate a meta with 8 or 10 strength gems.

Brainwreck
07-02-2008, 02:49 AM
No I don't think you will out dps a 1 handed fury builds dps.

I would think 20/41 would make more dps.

It's about the the extra 4% damage for melee, not the dps.

If you want leet dps, dual weild fury is the way to go, and if you go that route you providie less to the raid than a 33/28 warriors will. So just reroll a rogue if you want to see the big damage done numbers, or spec 33/28 and be a benefit to your guild.

Ok not even gonna bother replying to this...


They already have a Blood Frenzy warrior in their raid. In that case, 17/44 fury will produce the highest possible DPS. Pick up the badge fists if you don't have them or better (better being pretty much Warglaives or stuff from Sunwell) and dual wield, it'll produce better results. I think the guide meant that a 2H fury build will out DPS all other 2H specs. I highly doubt it could outdo DW fury.

I wouldn't reroll unless you really want to play a rogue. It's not as much like a fury warrior as you might think.

So the stickied guide is outdated? Why is 2H Fury dead? Has something changed that made bloodthirst not scale as well with ATP now? Or if the guide was really just comparing it to other 2H builds, can we get a confirmation on that?

Any input as far as my crit goes?

Gorgrim Warcry
07-02-2008, 02:57 AM
Reading half asleep for the lose. My position still stands though I think fury warriors are a wasted raid slot. Given similar gear and circumstances Rogues will win the dps race by a comfortable margin, but since you have a 33/28 if he has good attendance then I guess it doesn't matter.

I don't believe 2 hand fury was ever the leetest dps, just better dps than MS. Dual weild has always been the best dps at least post BC.

*well it may have been before the windfury nerf, not sure. Can't believe everything you read any way :P

Arrivan
07-02-2008, 03:05 AM
Ok not even gonna bother replying to this...



So the stickied guide is outdated? Why is 2H Fury dead? Has something changed that made bloodthirst not scale as well with ATP now? Or if the guide was really just comparing it to other 2H builds, can we get a confirmation on that?

Any input as far as my crit goes?

I edited my post to answer your second question. As for the 2H fury thing, the rage nerf of patch 2.0 killed it pretty well, and even after they fixed it DW fury was superior for DPS and 33/28 provided better 2H utility. 2H fury isn't strictly dead but there are two superior warrior specs available. Since I'm an advocate of fury warriors I wouldn't discourage you from continuing to use a 2H fury spec, but the talent tree is clearly designed for dual wielding. Titan Grip in WotLK further reinforces this. But as I like think if it works for you, go right ahead and do it.


Reading half asleep for the lose. My position still stands though I think fury warriors are a wasted raid slot. Given similar gear and circumstances Rogues will win the dps race by a comfortable margin, but since you have a 33/28 if he has good attendance then I guess it doesn't matter.

I don't believe 2 hand fury was ever the leetest dps, just better dps than MS. Dual weild has always been the best dps at least post BC.

*well it may have been before the windfury nerf, not sure. Can't believe everything you read any way :P

It's true that another rogue will provide more DPS but unless your guild is a super-hardcore world first seeking guild the leadership of most guilds would hopefully think more about the players they take, not just the classes. I prefer the playstyle of the warrior class and wouldn't want to be in a guild where I wasn't welcome in raids just because of the class I play. To each their own I guess.

Brainwreck
07-02-2008, 03:17 AM
I edited my post to answer your second question. As for the 2H fury thing, the rage nerf of patch 2.0 killed it pretty well, and even after they fixed it DW fury was superior for DPS and 33/28 provided better 2H utility. 2H fury isn't strictly dead but there are two superior warrior specs available. Since I'm an advocate of fury warriors I wouldn't discourage you from continuing to use a 2H fury spec, but the talent tree is clearly designed for dual wielding. Titan Grip in WotLK further reinforces this. But as I like think if it works for you, go right ahead and do it.


Good points. Thanks a ton for the facts and input, ill be staying DW.

jlafleur
07-02-2008, 06:35 AM
I smell a lot of guessing here. I have been trying out a 2h fury build. The results have been promising and if I ever get to DPS in a raid rather than tank, then I'll post a WWS. Based on my dps modeling and some testing in 5-man dungeons, I think I can out dps most of the raid (probably except the BM hunters) let alone the fury warrior we have and the rogues (which admittedly might not be great). There are advantages to 2h fury over dual-wield fury which people tend to overlook. For example, not missing white attacks since your hit cap is 95 with precision or 142 without. That allows you to itemize differently (very little hit) boosting AP and crit. In any event, 21/40 would be the way to go. Rampage costs too much rage to keep up which is better spent slamming. Deathwish is a nice boost in damage which you might be able to activate 3-4 times a battle depending on how long it goes.

Brainwreck
07-02-2008, 10:24 AM
I smell a lot of guessing here. I have been trying out a 2h fury build. The results have been promising and if I ever get to DPS in a raid rather than tank, then I'll post a WWS. Based on my dps modeling and some testing in 5-man dungeons, I think I can out dps most of the raid (probably except the BM hunters) let alone the fury warrior we have and the rogues (which admittedly might not be great). There are advantages to 2h fury over dual-wield fury which people tend to overlook. For example, not missing white attacks since your hit cap is 95 with precision or 142 without. That allows you to itemize differently (very little hit) boosting AP and crit. In any event, 21/40 would be the way to go. Rampage costs too much rage to keep up which is better spent slamming. Deathwish is a nice boost in damage which you might be able to activate 3-4 times a battle depending on how long it goes.

Well there might be some assumptions being thrown in here, but im giving arrivan the benefit of the doubt, im thinking hes basing his assumptions off WWS hes seen or something.

If there really was some sort of "rage nerf" in patch 2.0 as he said though, i would think it would put this thing to rest.

As far as 5 man dungeons, i think they can pretty much be thrown out as far as benchmarks for dps...

Your post does spark a bit of interest again though, so i am interested to hear other opinions.

Kazeyonoma
07-02-2008, 10:37 AM
There was a rage nerf when 2.0 came out.

They found that itemization in TBC would put rage gains way too high for warriors and so they redid the rage formula, which for a short while, gimped us terribly, they went back and "fixed" it by changing some of the #s in the new formula, but we don't get as much rage as we used to back before 2.0

loquatious
07-02-2008, 11:10 AM
Why bother with a fury vs Rogue? because Fury can off tank trash pulls.

jlafleur
07-02-2008, 01:17 PM
Well there might be some assumptions being thrown in here, but im giving arrivan the benefit of the doubt, im thinking hes basing his assumptions off WWS hes seen or something.

If there really was some sort of "rage nerf" in patch 2.0 as he said though, i would think it would put this thing to rest.

As far as 5 man dungeons, i think they can pretty much be thrown out as far as benchmarks for dps...

Your post does spark a bit of interest again though, so i am interested to hear other opinions.

Hmmm...17/44 sounds like the same old same old. Someone else said it so it must be true. In any event, model the DPS yourself if you want.

[Warrior] DPS Spreadsheet 2.3 and beyond - Page 40 - Elitist Jerks (http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t17022-warrior_dps_spreadsheet_2_3_beyond/p40/#post757116)

Brainwreck
07-02-2008, 01:54 PM
Hmmm...17/44 sounds like the same old same old. Someone else said it so it must be true. In any event, model the DPS yourself if you want.

[Warrior] DPS Spreadsheet 2.3 and beyond - Page 40 - Elitist Jerks (http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t17022-warrior_dps_spreadsheet_2_3_beyond/p40/#post757116)

Do i have any more reason to believe you more than him?

Arrivan
07-03-2008, 02:15 AM
[Warrior] DPS Spreadsheet 2.3 and beyond - Page 40 - Elitist Jerks (http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t17022-warrior_dps_spreadsheet_2_3_beyond/p40/#post757116)

The spreadsheet is very interesting. I'll play around with it and come up with some hard numbers instead of guesswork. I still prefer Landsoul's spreadsheet because it's much easier to use but it does not have the same functionality as the one you linked. Thanks :)

jlafleur
07-03-2008, 11:59 AM
Do i have any more reason to believe you more than him?

I didn't tell you to believe me. I just offered you some suggestions. In fact, I didn't even say that 20/41 2h or 14/77 dual-wield were better than one or the other. That really comes down to what gear you have and what gear you can get.

Crimsonstorm
07-03-2008, 03:51 PM
2H fury is like doing less dps than normal fury, and not having the Blood Frenzy debuff that makes an arms warrior desired in a raid.

A dps warrior pretty much needs to raid as Arms 33/28 with blood frenzy and 3/5 flurry, with Imp Slam doing a slam rotation, for a good raid dps buff, or as 17/44 dual wield fury for strong personal dps.

Crimsonstorm
07-03-2008, 03:55 PM
Why bother with a fury vs Rogue? because Fury can off tank trash pulls.

The rogue provides no raid buff.

The fury warrior buff's their group with Battle Shout (and possibly Solarians Sapphire) for as much as 470 AP. Provided you are the only dps warrior in the melee group, the raid dps from this buff plus your personal dps is higher than a rogue's dps, given equal skill and gear. Additionally the warrior can offtank.


A melee group like Enhance Shaman/Ret Pally/Feral Druid/DPS Warrior/Rogue is superior to either Shaman/Pally/Druid/Warrior/Warrior, or Shaman/Pally/Druid/Rogue/Rogue.

You want balance in the melee group, stacking 1 Shaman, 1 Warrior, and 1-2 more buff classes like Ret Pally/FeralDruid/BM Hunter, and 1-2 Rogues to maximally utilize those buffs.

Arrivan
07-03-2008, 04:42 PM
Not to mention come Wrath of the Lich King we'll not only buff a 5 man group but the whole raid group with over 600 AP if the new ranks of Battle Shout I've seen are correct. I played with that spreadsheet last night and found that using all gear I currently have DW fury outdoes 2H fury if you have higher than ~140 ms latency because it screws up your slam rotation. I'd go as far as saying that 2H fury is always inferior to DW fury because in reality you won't always have a perfect slam rotation, and spreadsheets don't always live up to reality, they only give a close estimate of what you should be able to do with given gear and buffs.

Just to give you an idea of how much any kind of lag screws up 2H fury, the spreadsheet has a cell for "lag factor" which it suggests 2x your average ping should be what you put in. The default value is 0.25, and with this value using my two gear setups 2H fury with Stormherald was about 10 DPS ahead of DW fury with DragonstrikeVanir's Left Fist of Brutality. However, when I changed the lag factor to something that reflected my own average latency (~300-400 ms) 2H fury lost over 100 DPS compared to DW fury which stayed roughly the same (keeping with my previous statements in another thread that fury warriors are much more lag-friendly than other classes or even other warrior specs). The equivalence point was a lag factor of just 0.28 (or ~140 ms average ping). Feel free to try it yourself.

jlafleur
07-05-2008, 09:46 AM
2H fury is like doing less dps than normal fury, and not having the Blood Frenzy debuff that makes an arms warrior desired in a raid.

Perhaps. I see conjecture, not proof.

jlafleur
07-05-2008, 09:57 AM
This is what I consider to be proof. Now whether there is a 2h fury in here I don't know. Haven't been through all of the posts.

WoW Forums -> T6 Warrior DPS Records and Statistics (http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=6440947455&sid=1)

Brainwreck
07-05-2008, 01:56 PM
This is what I consider to be proof. Now whether there is a 2h fury in here I don't know. Haven't been through all of the posts.

WoW Forums -> T6 Warrior DPS Records and Statistics (http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=6440947455&sid=1)

Alot of those names are the same ones on the updated recs and stats post, and i can tell you every fury warrior on there is 17/44, which might say something.