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Chosenx
06-28-2008, 01:50 AM
Hey everyone.

Basically I have been a prot tank for probably 6 months now and have gathered a decent off-set of gear (i think). I wouldn't mind trying it out for raiding as fury for occasions where the tank spots in my guild are full.

However, I don't really want to try it without knowing i have the right weapons.

I know the badge fists are great, and I will get them eventually. I also know the glads stuff is good, but that will take me a while to get the honor for.

So my question is, what weapon options do I have without using badges or pvp? I'm guessing vindicator's brand might be ok but its not awesome. Surely there are weapons u can start to raid with other than through pvp/badges.

I have emerald ripper from kara as well (saved it from gettin DE'd lol). Is this even viable? It seems too fast to me but I don't know a lot about fury (yet).

So what options are there for me? I am pvping but I kind of want to start dpsing before the 2 weeks or so it will take me to get enough honor for 2 weaps.

Thanks for any help!

P.S My AP is around 1600-1700 (depends on weapons) non-fury specced and crit is at 23-25% in zerker. How much difference do the weapons make?

vonholck
06-28-2008, 04:51 AM
well i dont know your professions, but if you have BS dragonstrike is a very good option, and you can even make two of em since one of the latest patches. This option is abit heavy on the wallet though.

Well beside that i dont really see any other options than HC and rep rewards, and tbh these are pretty far behind the badge/pvp items. As you said yourself, the fists are wery good, just remember to get the slow offhand, since thats how warriors wants it nowadays :) which should answer the question about the emerals ripper aswell :)

regards

Tatt
06-28-2008, 08:06 AM
The cheapest, best dps weapon from heroics in my opinion is breeching comet from heroic magisters. Good stats, good damage, slow, and I believe you can DW them.

Chosenx
06-28-2008, 08:27 AM
Raided kara with my guild tonight as dps. For a first try, I think I did alright. Came second on the dps meter (underneath a lock) which was decent considering I've never done it before. Sadly I think the guild needs a bit of gearing up lol.

Anyway my fury stats put me at about 1817 AP 25% crit 126 hit. I think I did ok in there, but it is clear that the weapons are letting me down (used vindicator's brand and emerald ripper (OH)).

Anyway my dps was around 550 - is this good/bad for kara? What other places could i go?

Anyway I'm not a blacksmith so I think i am going to have to pvp and get some stuff eventually. Just sucks that there isn't a non-badge non-pvp option like there is for the rest of the gear.

Tatt
06-28-2008, 08:32 AM
Umm, did you not read my comment about breeching comet?

550 dps is not bad for a first time dps in kara, fury warriors do not shine in there till they have practice and gear. If you do not have 3 point sin precision try to get your hit to 142, you won't miss specials and that will help your dps. And if 550 dps was 2nd on the damage meters than yes your guild needs work on dps.

Chosenx
06-28-2008, 08:49 AM
Yeah sorry I forgot about the breeching comet lol. I just need to find time to be able to tank heroic mgt (havn't tanked heroic yet but my gear is good enough) to be able to get the gear from out of there.

Might give it a go tomorrow night, i'll let ya know how it goes (and yeah this group of the guild needs a lot of work - there were 2 others close to me on the meter tho).

What sort of dps figures should I be expecting to hit in kara (in t4ish gear)?

Sorry about hijacking the thread a bit (even tho its mine). I have a lot of questions, and i know these forums are the place to get them.

Tatt
06-28-2008, 09:17 AM
Without seeing your armory I would only be guessing, but with practice I think you could hit 600's in heroics and close to 800 raid buffed. There are a ton of dps drops in heroic mgt, shard of contempt, breeching comet, netherforce chestplate, sunstrider boots, shoulders of everlasting pain. Get ready to spend a lot of time in there.

Chosenx
06-28-2008, 09:43 AM
Can I go into heroics as fury with this sort of gear? It is great news if I can lol. I am under the impression that at the moment my best bet is to tank heroics and get off-spec gear, which is a kind of sucky way to do things (tho I do like tanking).

I will post a link to my armory when it shows up my actual dps gear properly for you as well. Thanks for the help.

Tatt
06-28-2008, 09:46 AM
Easy heroics yeah you could dps. Find people you like to do heroics with, because getting pugs to take non cc class dps is always a treat. You will shine at heroic BM. You will have to tank heroic magister's, most groups want all the cc they can get for that run. As fury I would keep to BM, ramparts, bot, mech, UB, and SP...you should be safe there.

Brucimus
06-28-2008, 12:54 PM
Tatt is right on...unless you know the people you are goin with. Good luck getting into a Heroic MrT run as fury warrior.

Breeching Comet and any of the Blacksmithing weapons are pretty good for Fury.

DO NOT BUY BLINKSTRIKE

Tatt
06-28-2008, 01:01 PM
Spoken like a man who has wasted a gold piece or two on the AH :)

Tatt
06-28-2008, 01:45 PM
I got bored, so I looked up breeching comet. If you are not a BS and do not pvp, there is not a higher dps weapon from any heroic, from a faction rep, or even from kara that will do more damage on a slow 1h. ZA, T5, arena, or badges would be necessary to get a higher dps weapon.

Chosenx
06-28-2008, 11:25 PM
Well breeching comet will be my main goal out of heroics then, but I will start saving up badges as well for the badge fists (should I get MH or OH first?) and I will probably get enough honour for at least 1 pvp weap and 1 badge fist to start out, but hopefully I will get breeching comet before then.

Also my armory is here The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Proudmoore&n=Chosenx). Feel free to give us any more advice it would be well appreciated.

Tatt
06-30-2008, 06:48 AM
Get a 2nd dps trinket, what's with the carrot? J/k.....Pray for Nightbane to drop Ironstriders of Urgency, very good dps boots. Get a helm with a meta socket, even if it is just the S2 helm. Get the dps pants off of last boss from heroic mech. Either the vindicator bracers or get a BS to craft you the black felsteel ones. Get distracting blades out of heroic magister's while you are there farming all the other gear :)

Chosenx
06-30-2008, 06:54 PM
Thanks for the suggestion. My trinkets are very sucky atm dps wise. The 2 obvious spots that really need upgrading (apart from trinkets and weapons) are my boots and bracers.

Black felsteel is on my shopping list, I am collecting the mats atm and am just waiting to get the last few mats and find a blacksmith (my local recipe-laden smithy hasn't been online much lately). I did get those leather bracers out of kara when I went in as dps as they were an upgrade over the sha'tari rubbish I was using (ex-tank bracers). Still I could really use some plate and black felsteel are better.

Thanks for the tip about the pants from mech - I can go in there for the tank weapon, the pants and the abacus of violent odds (i think that drops in there but havn't checked because I am at work). Get some badges while I am at it too.

As for heroic mgt, I'm yet to start in there yet (though I am just waiting for me to get enough time). My tank stats are around 13.8k hp 14.5k armor unbuffed is that enough for heroic mgt? I have heard it is hard (thats why I have steered clear). I was thinking maybe with a guild group it could be ok though.

S2 helm is probably a little bit away in my purchase order atm as I will probably be getting the glads sword first as it seems to be the most obvious boost to my dps for the moment. I am a human as well so the extra expertise would make the sword the right thing to go for (i think).

After that I will probably chase either an offhand or some boots, as I think my chances of getting the t4 helm is pretty high as most of the people in my guild already have theirs. That being said, with my luck with kara drops I might never get it!

By the end of this week I should have about the 18k honor I need for a weap, and hopefully will have gotten the courage to get into mgt and get that phat loot.

Also one last thing, I went into heroic mech as dps the other day (and the sword dropped for the tank, how annoying it doesnt drop when I tank) and had a couple of problems. The first was that I could rarely use whirlwind and so my damage output suffered a fair bit. This was because there would be a sheep right next to where the tank was tanking the other mobs. I am guessing he should have pulled them away from the sheep for me? Or am I just expected not to use whirlwind?

Also I was afraid that if I used whirlwind I would pull threat from the off-target (the tank was a warrior, and to me didn't seem to be doing as good as a job keeping threat as i usually do, but maybe thats just a matter of perspective). Would whirlwind pull a target that has 2 devastates on it? Obviously with a pally tank that problem is reduced, and 5 manning with a warrior isn't ideal but is this a problem I can expect to occur often?

And the other issue I faced was I kept on taking damage from aoe effects that the mobs would have when attacking the tank, and the healer didn't appreciate it much. Is this something that just happens to melee dps or was I doing something wrong? Also the chick with the flame adds (the 3 flame things that follows you - serpethrea i think she is) caused me a lot of trouble and I had to spend a lot of time kiting the adds and didn't get to dps her much at all. Is this just a fight where melee dps has bad luck or am I doing it wrong?

Sorry for so many questions in one post, but you (tattman2an) and others here seem to know what you are talking about compared to places like wow forums where I can't expect a decent answer, and I don't want to keep making new topics and flood this forum. Thanks once again for any help!

Saturday
07-01-2008, 03:12 AM
As for heroic mgt, I'm yet to start in there yet (though I am just waiting for me to get enough time). My tank stats are around 13.8k hp 14.5k armor unbuffed is that enough for heroic mgt? I have heard it is hard (thats why I have steered clear). I was thinking maybe with a guild group it could be ok though.


Also one last thing, I went into heroic mech as dps the other day (and the sword dropped for the tank, how annoying it doesnt drop when I tank) and had a couple of problems. The first was that I could rarely use whirlwind and so my damage output suffered a fair bit. This was because there would be a sheep right next to where the tank was tanking the other mobs. I am guessing he should have pulled them away from the sheep for me? Or am I just expected not to use whirlwind?

Also I was afraid that if I used whirlwind I would pull threat from the off-target (the tank was a warrior, and to me didn't seem to be doing as good as a job keeping threat as i usually do, but maybe thats just a matter of perspective). Would whirlwind pull a target that has 2 devastates on it? Obviously with a pally tank that problem is reduced, and 5 manning with a warrior isn't ideal but is this a problem I can expect to occur often?

And the other issue I faced was I kept on taking damage from aoe effects that the mobs would have when attacking the tank, and the healer didn't appreciate it much. Is this something that just happens to melee dps or was I doing something wrong? Also the chick with the flame adds (the 3 flame things that follows you - serpethrea i think she is) caused me a lot of trouble and I had to spend a lot of time kiting the adds and didn't get to dps her much at all. Is this just a fight where melee dps has bad luck or am I doing it wrong?

1. Heroic MgT isn't so much about your armour as is it pure HP as most mobs are casters. Your ability to take the hits and use spell reflect every cooldown and shield bash will be your biggest boon to the group. With three CC, Heroic MgT is painfully easier, it becomes progressivley more difficult with less.

2. If a sheep is nearby, you have two choices. Drop whirlwind out of your rotation and substitute it with heroic strikes or, once you get comfortable, learn to know the distance of whirlwind. It has a larger reach than your melee range, so you can back out a little and whirlwind and hit the mob but not necessarily hit the mob next to it. It takes practice and you will sometimes screw up, just hope you don't crit and get a deep wounds on the sheep :D

3. With a warrior tank, it depends on their ability. Two devastates may or may not be enough, but I'd wager it isn't. Unless they are activley thunder clapping and switching target to throw a shield slam, treat the other mob as you would a CC'd target.

If you are getting into instances as fury, you do not want to make enemies with the tank and healer as it is rare a fury warrior will be brought along at all. In my time as prot, I've met a lot of terrible DPS warriors who thought it was my job to hold every mob they decided to whirlwind off them. All it said to me is "I guess i won't be bringing this guy back for a heroic run again, making my run unneccesarily difficult".

4. Stand behind mobs. All the time. This will increase your DPS and will lessen the chance of being hit by AOE as most have a frontal cone hitbox. And yes, Nethermancer is a melee unfriendly fight. If you get unlucky, you won't be on the boss very much. Don't fret about it too much.

Chosenx
07-01-2008, 07:11 AM
Thanks for the response - I do realise that unless the warrior is actively trying to keep the threat high on the second mob I will pull threat off it - I have spent a fair bit of time tanking and know what it is like. However, I put out more threat than this warrior did.

Also I was in the instance because it was predominately guild-run, the warrior tank was an outsider and they needed dps so I came along. Besides you don't really need much CC for mech.

And I have been standing behind mobs, but I still seemed to get pretty roughed up considering. I'm guessing the damage I got hit was fairly normal and the healer just wasn't too used to having melee dps in a 5 man. But trust me, I would never go into the instance and fight with healers/tanks as dps, because I know what it is like when I tank. That being said when a tank does a crap job, he does a crap job, and there isn't much you can do about it (his rotation was barely using shield slam, and I was constantly having to pull back on threat and I have pretty average dps lol).

Tatt
07-01-2008, 08:31 AM
Omen is a fury warrior's best friend, don't leave home without it. You will learn as fury that you get to back up and stand there sometimes just to let your tank get aggro back. I usually jsut give them a head start then charge in. Kill orders are also essential so you are not building aggro on something the tank is only barely working on. A good healer will not mind throwing out party heals as long as you are not consistantly pulling aggro, needing heals for aoe damage is normal. Like the above poster said, finding your way into heroics as fury is not always fun, for example having a group take a mage in greens over you in epics "cuz he can sheepz dude".....yeah that makes me warm and fuzzy. By consistantly topping the dps charts, by helping interrupt casters, by keeping shouts up, that is where you will prove your value to a heroic group. Also look for groups with a pally tank or pally healer, and beg for salv buff. That 30% threat reduction will give you some leeway to swing some more.

And wtf are you talking about kiting the adds in mech? Stay the hell away from the adds, just nuke delrissa. I do not even think the adds have an aggro table.

Chosenx
07-01-2008, 04:06 PM
Yeah I think I had a bit of a mix of an average healer and tank, which probably wasn't the best help for my first dps heroic.

The adds I am talking about are the 3 or 4 flame things that have no aggro table (i think) but randomly pick someone and follow them. If I stand there, I won't be lasting long. You have to move away from them, and then they leave a fire trail which can make it hard to get back to the fight without significant damage.

Anyway I think I am starting to get the hang of it all now. Fury sure is fun!

Kazeyonoma
07-01-2008, 04:15 PM
I think maybe tatt is thinking of the 3rd boss in heroic Magisters not heroic mech.

Chosenx
07-01-2008, 07:23 PM
Yeah it sounds like he was now that I think about it (havn't done that encounter on heroic but I've read about it).

Also I have been rethinking the black felsteel bracers. Atm I have some leather dps bracers out of kara, and the stats are very similar except the leather has more hp but less armor (obviously less armor).

The difference in dps stats is 1 or 2 ap, so my question is whether or not the armor makes much difference at all, considering I am dps and shouldnt be hit.

Just its anywhere from 600-1k gold for the mats etc. for the black felsteel and I think I could probably spend them better somewhere else, perhaps on vengeance wrap or on some better gems (or even my epic flyer finally lol). What do you think?

Tatt
07-02-2008, 01:22 PM
Keep the leather ones if they are as good as the plate ones, armor means nothing on a dps warrior. And maybe you guys all use a different strat than I ever did, in Mech everyone just avoided the flames, I did not know they ever targeted anyone, it was just nuke the boss, run away from flames, rinse repeat.