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View Full Version : Is it my build or gear?



Creampuf
06-27-2008, 08:13 PM
I'm having some problems. In PUG heroics i lose aggro all the time. When I go with my guild, I have no problems at all. Oh, we'll have the bad pull here and there, but by and large we're fine.

But in PUG's I just can't get over the other players. And I keep getting told I suck. In the last 3 weeks I've had exactly 2 PUG's that managed to kill any bosses at all.

So what's up?

Here's my armory: The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Alleria&n=Creampuf)

Fayre
06-27-2008, 09:31 PM
There are things I'd change with your gear, but it isn't so horrible I'd run screaming. In terms of build, I'd probably run with imp t/clap in heroics, because its good for building aggro on mobs that aren't being DPS'd yet, and you just want to keep them off your healer. It's not world-breaking, mind you.

The real question is: who is pulling aggro, and on which mob?

- Healer getting healing aggro? (Your problem: gear or threat rotation issue)
- DPS getting aggro on the skull target? (Your problem: gear or threat rotation issue)
- DPS getting aggro on another mob? (Their problem: idiocy issue)

And what kind of gear level are the PUG people you're finding youself with? You will find youself working harder if the DPS is geared above your level.

Hope that helps focus your thinking.

Satrina
06-27-2008, 11:21 PM
Improved Revenge isn't a great choice if you are having threat problems. Stunned mobs don't give you rage.

Leytur
06-28-2008, 04:36 AM
The real question is: who is pulling aggro, and on which mob?

- Healer getting healing aggro? (Your problem: gear or threat rotation issue)
- DPS getting aggro on the skull target? (Your problem: gear or threat rotation issue)
- DPS getting aggro on another mob? (Their problem: idiocy issue)


Healer aggro isn't a rotation issue--it's a thunderclap issue.

DPS getting aggro on the skull could be their fault as well. I've had DPS open up on a target when it hasn't even gotten to me yet. Make sure to remind everyone to wait til you actually hit the Skull (a ranged weapon pull has like 60-120 threat) especially if it's a kite pull.

And the third situation is 100% accurate.

Creampuf
06-28-2008, 05:37 AM
- DPS getting aggro on the skull target? (Your problem: gear or threat rotation issue)
- DPS getting aggro on another mob? (Their problem: idiocy issue)


Both of these happen. My typicall pull rotation is devestate, devestate then into my normal rotation which is ss, rev, dev, dev

I have all of my abilities macro'ed to include mouseover as the firs target and I am moving my mouse target to target on multi-pulls trying to get at least one dev on each.

I also do toss out a TC and a demo shout at the start of the pull if there is no CC near me -- which almost never happens. I'm almost always standing with a sheep, trap or shackle within TC range when the fight starts. I try to move the mobs so I can TC, but typically lose them before I get them far enough away to do that.




- Healer getting healing aggro? (Your problem: gear or threat rotation issue)


Never at first. The mobs start running everywhich way, I'm chasing after them trying to get them back, the healer's trying to keep everyone alive, and the mobs finally collapse on the healer.

That's a typical PUG for me.

When I run with my guild, they wait for me to have aggro, the CC is never on top of me, and everything comes together.

I have opened my mouth in PUG's and told people to wait, but that seems to be like telling a kid not to eat candy.



And what kind of gear level are the PUG people you're finding youself with? You will find youself working harder if the DPS is geared above your level.

Hope that helps focus your thinking.

I honestly never really look at other people's gear. And even when I do I'm not good at evaluating what I see. This is my first toon above 40 :)

Darklordj
06-28-2008, 06:57 PM
i am having the very same issues...
what stats should one carry tohelp with this issue?

Curveball
06-29-2008, 06:58 AM
I'd say if you have to start scrambling after mobs at beginning of pulls you are just running with some poor players for the most part. My philosophy is you can try to save people from themselves.....but you'll probably fail. :)

Depending on the group you can try a few things tho, and the mobs your facing. If there are casters in the group and you have a dps warrior, enh shammy, or rogue, skull up one of those casters and don't worry too much about tanking it. Maybe a timely taunt or concussive blow, otherwise, ignore it and tank the hard-hitting melee mobs. I've found this works with impatient melee dps, as they usually can rip through a caster without many issues.

Of course if your melee dps is undergeared for the content they will take more damage doing this, so it all depends I suppose.

Creampuf
06-29-2008, 10:27 AM
Depending on the group you can try a few things tho, and the mobs your facing. If there are casters in the group and you have a dps warrior, enh shammy, or rogue, skull up one of those casters and don't worry too much about tanking it. Maybe a timely taunt or concussive blow, otherwise, ignore it and tank the hard-hitting melee mobs. I've found this works with impatient melee dps, as they usually can rip through a caster without many issues.


That's actually a really good idea. I haven't thought of that before, but it sounds like a great way to allow me to build up threat on the bigger guys.

Myisland
07-02-2008, 07:27 AM
That is exactly a strat that I started doing myself recently and I'll testify it works wonders. I generally run with the same people and they are all higher geared than myself (switched mains and the warrior is growing).

In some of the 70 instances that have 5-6 mob pulls I basically assign the typical XYZ kill order then set a second kill order which is casters only. Mind you I only include the types of casters that don't normally run; ie warlocks and mages. I include most shaman, priests and whatnot in the melee kill order as you'll find most of those run to the puller.

In any event doing that allows the s2-4 rogue/hunter/Spriest to destroy the casters while I work on the main group. Usually the 6-12 seconds head start I get is sufficient to keep a lock on the aggro above my mates. I'm hoping to some extent to take this strategy into Heroics when the healer and I get geared up a little better to handle it. Does this still work pretty good in heroics as far as dps'ers working casters like that?

marklar
07-02-2008, 05:17 PM
i've found that recount is one of my favorite tanking addons, especially in PUG's. not that i care about my personal DPS, but all the other info it gives you is great. first, you can ensure your dps is up to par; anyone under 400 doesn't belong in a heroic. it tells you who broke CC - most of those should be you. also, death reports are great to figure out what went wrong. seeing exactly how you died really helps.

and it has all kinds of other stuff. once, i was in a group and every pull disintegrated into chaos. i couldn't figure it out, told everyone to be careful about the kill order, but it didn't help. i clicked on the top-dps'er (a lock), and discovered that he was spamming seed of corruption on every pull. replaced him and the rest of the run was smooth.

Muffin Man
07-08-2008, 01:33 AM
I also do toss out a TC and a demo shout at the start of the pull if there is no CC near me -- which almost never happens. I'm almost always standing with a sheep, trap or shackle within TC range when the fight starts. I try to move the mobs so I can TC, but typically lose them before I get them far enough away to do that.



Keep in mind that demoralizing shout won't break CC (but it will aggro neutral mobs).

Then there are the passive aoe threats like battle/commanding shout and bloodrage. They don't add much, but charge, bloodrage, demoshout will give a little threat on everyone.

My ideal pull is this: charge, defensive stance before I reach mob, tc, bloodrage, demo shout, ss skull. Then I start rotating as the situation requires.

If you're losing the mobs before 1 or 2 global cooldowns... then I'd put money on it being someone else's fault.

Also, 8 yards (the range of tc) isn't that far in game terms. So it shouldn't take you too long to pull the mobs away from any cc.