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View Full Version : ZA and early 25 man numbers



Jeezus
06-24-2008, 02:03 PM
So I was perusing another forum and I asked what I needed in terms of ap and hit for ZA and early 25 mans. I was told 1850 AP and 180 hit. It seemed a little high to me so I figured I'd ask around. What would you guys say is a decent number to start ZA at least?

Kazeyonoma
06-24-2008, 02:11 PM
starting AP for a fury warrior i'd say about 1800 is pretty accurate, 1850 maybe, but 1800 would be pretty solid unbuffed.

180 hit is WAY overkill

to remove misses from special attacks or from non-dual wielding attacks, you just need 9% against a skull level boss. that's 142 hit rating, or 95 hit rating if you have 3/3 Precision.

To smooth out rage gains DW, people will tell you to get anywhere from 125-150 hit anyways but all you ever TRULY need is 95, AND 180 is WAY too much. 100% sure, that's way too much hit.

Jeezus
06-24-2008, 02:15 PM
Much appreciated. I currently have 1710 ap and 138 hit, with a few pieces that need replacing, I believe and it's the 180 hit that was really bothering.

Kazeyonoma
06-24-2008, 02:19 PM
yeh at 138 hit, you're probably pretty golden i wouldn't worry about hit anymore for now. just pump your ap as high as you can, oh and reach at least 28% unbuffed crit in zerker. You want this to keep flurry up consistently.

Tatt
06-24-2008, 04:04 PM
Tell whoever said you needed 180 hit to go back to playing his rogue :p

GarrettJaxx
06-25-2008, 11:55 AM
yeh at 138 hit, you're probably pretty golden i wouldn't worry about hit anymore for now. just pump your ap as high as you can, oh and reach at least 28% unbuffed crit in zerker. You want this to keep flurry up consistently.
/Agree.

Would even say that 27% crit would be fine. If you know your group make-up ahead of time you can cheat with a feral drood, but better to shoot for the baselines, unbuffed.

Gettin' that AP up is THE priority. And I lol'd at the post telling the 180 hit guy to back to playing his rogue hahaha.

Threatmagnet
06-30-2008, 09:25 AM
Blah blah blah my hit rating is better than your hit rating.

That's what you're going to hear from everyone you ask -much like if you ask a tank the same question about how to tank effectively.

I avoid the hit rating question if possible.

Essentially the issue is rage and if you generate enough. You want to always be able to use whirlwind and bloodthirst every time the cooldown is available. Remember: the time buffet between use of bloodthirst and whirlwind adds up, which equals damage not done in the long run. With that being said, you want enough hit to a) never miss specials [95 with precision; 142 w/o] b) give you the rage you need. If you don't have enough hit, then you'll experience "boom and bust" rage generation affecting your long term damage. This +hit number is not static; it's whatever works for you.

The big misunderstanding is when hit becomes an inefficient stat. Never trade strength, crit, etc. for hit past 95 hit rating. You will see better returns from these other stats.

And remember: it all depends on what is available to you.

Turmentus
07-07-2008, 08:23 PM
starting AP for a fury warrior i'd say about 1800 is pretty accurate, 1850 maybe, but 1800 would be pretty solid unbuffed.

How's this change (if at all) if you're raiding PVE arms?

equivocal
07-08-2008, 08:53 AM
How's this change (if at all) if you're raiding PVE arms?

I don't think it does change at all, except you really don't want to exceed your 9% hit rating cap if possible. For an Arms warrior, it's really a waste.

Kazeyonoma
07-08-2008, 09:44 AM
for a pve arms warrior you don't have precision so 142 hit is your cap, for both whites and specials though so reaching this is pretty important.

As for Ap, I'd say that your AP is roughly the same, I can't see a reason why it'd be higher or lower, when I go PvE arms I have about 1900 unbuffed AP. Crit for an arms warrior though should probably be higher, less swings mean less chances to crit means less flurry uptime. I'd imagine putting that magic crit number to about 32%? in zerker? I dunno, I find myself swimming in crit in zerker anyways, so maybe 28% will still work.

So 142 hit, 1850 ap, 30% crit for a pve arms is decent. I stack the ArP though, I think unproc'd I have 550 ignore armor and proc'd I break 1.3k.

Turmentus
07-08-2008, 10:45 AM
I couldn't think of a reason they would be; I only asked because I'd seen Kara mins where the Arms and Fury AP mins differed by about 100 and wasn't sure if there was something I was missing.

ebs2002
07-08-2008, 01:19 PM
Fury warriors have Imp Berserker Stance, which increases their attack power over their Arms brethren. A fury warrior with the same AP as an arms warrior is probably not as well geared overall as the arms warrior is.

That, or the arms AP was higher because they were trying to weed out the pvp'ers who don't know how to arms pve :-p

Gorgrim Warcry
07-08-2008, 01:31 PM
Seems like it would be lower to me, no imp beserker stance.

Turmentus
07-08-2008, 02:45 PM
The Fury AP min was 100 higher than the Arms min.

So, assuming improved 'zerker, the Fury min should be higher than the Arms min if we're wanting people at comparable levels? Still 100 difference or more at this stage?

Tatt
07-08-2008, 02:47 PM
Should be more than 100 AP, Kaz stated before that he is about 1900 AP when he is arms PVE, his gear is a much higher tier level than mine and imp. berserker puts my AP 150 higher than him. Equal gear I think it should be closer to 200-250.

Turmentus
07-08-2008, 02:58 PM
Awesome, thanks for all the input!