View Full Version : dying on....Grull *shame*
06-11-2008, 10:38 AM
Hey all, recently went back to grullls lair for a fun run/ gear up for a few new people. This isn't new content for us, at all. Infact we are 5/6 SSC, ect. Cleared Mulgar easily enough, with myself MTing. Then we got to grull, and I drop dead before the 6th growth. Now I don't like to think of myself as a pushover, I have 17 k armor 16+ hp, 30 dodge and so on. I had Shield block up alot, but not all the time, as the macro I had made to incorperate it into my rotation wasn't working. I know that I got hit for 6k and 8k right before I died. Was this a case of random crushing, or does grull always seem to kill the MT if he is on him for a certain amount of time? Was it my own failure to keep SB up, and how important is it?
06-11-2008, 11:19 AM
Was it my own failure to keep SB up
and how important is it?
In my experience, the number one killer of Warrior tanks is Crushing Blow spike damage.
06-12-2008, 02:13 AM
Last time I MT'd gruul I started running light on the SB's as he just wasn't doing much damage, and you have no doubt much better gear.
But the first time I did him I got ganked, and it occured on a parry. A few days back I went there and was running as a spare OT (general tank gear, but dual wielding) and got ganked at around 2% on him. Turned out it was a 19k hateful strike, on top of a couple of thousand cave in that did it.
Maybe it was a parry that caused a spike, on a non active SB, or you picked up something in addition to the above?
06-12-2008, 03:06 AM
I have macros that incorporate shield block into every Slam, Revenge and Devastate, which work really well if I need to free up a hand to Thunderclap etc.
06-13-2008, 11:03 AM
I would only add SB to your revenge macro for this reason. If your off tanking, your not going to be using revenge nor will you need to use shield block. Saves on rage which is better spent keeping up with the MT on omen.
06-15-2008, 07:51 PM
well, it was Shield Block :/ However, /cast shield block, /cast devistate macro saved me this time.
06-17-2008, 07:49 AM
It was indeed your fault. Keep SB up.
Use your fingers to push buttons in a relative sequence. If your macros fail, don't let your logic fade.
Gruul is a tank killer if you don't keep an eye out. Quite simply though, there is no excuse for dying on content you're overgeared for. Especially if you took side by side crushings when SB wasn't on CD.
06-17-2008, 01:39 PM
I'm not a fan of macroing core skills and prefer to keep a sharp rotation on my own. SB to ward off crushes is obvious but there are other factors.
Was there any melee standing near you? Parry ganks do happen and if you all of a sudden realize there are 2 rogues and a fury warrior standing next to you, fix it fast.
After each ground slam I used to switch to zerker and intercept back to him....I actually ran out of rage doing this once and couldn't get SB up when I swapped back....doh.
Something I saw happen now and then was following a shatter, every continetious healer would toss out a heal or a HoT to an injured player and suddenly, I got no heals for 10 sec and crush or not, I got splattered.
I haven't been to Gruul in forever, my last guild always being short on healers and me playing one as my main meant I was healing that fight. I recall, however, that when I first tanked him successfully in "Bold" gear, it took a flawless, no crush performance. At the height of my gear, I'd take a few crushes early on...Gruul's damage begins trivial and escalates as he grows. Saving that keystroke and rage to eat a relatively weak crush at grow 3 shouldn't kill you.
In the end....shit happens. Everyone makes a mistake now and then and its not the end of the world if "aw crap, I ate a crush. My bad guys"....unless it happens more than once.
06-17-2008, 02:09 PM
It may not be completely your fault - I like to call out impending silences - "Top me up, silence soon!" and find that really helps. It also helps to pop trinkets, chug pots, use cooldowns _before_ trouble spots. Trouble spots are: just after a shatter when he turns and then heads back at you - if he gets you get the side/back then OUCHIES!, just after a silence, just after each grow after around 10-12 of them, when he is at 2% or less, etc. Trick for near the end: have dps warriors slap on a shield and intervene you, they will probably die but you'll live and the raid lives. You can also yell at people who are oom to bandage other people. Also - people find gruul easier if you pick a direction to face (south with gruul facing north) and drag him back to that after each shatter, except don't do it after around shatter 10 - just grab him and don't move - the risk of missing a cooldown or taking a blow to the back is too great as this time. Another cheaty thing: get a blacksmith to make you a chest rune - this really helps.
06-17-2008, 05:58 PM
1st thing: thanks to everyone that has posted, very helpful all aroud :)
2nd thing: found out what happened.....I was the only person in melee range and therfor got his normal hit and a truly "hateful strike", totalling about 17k dmg in 1 second.
07-03-2008, 02:08 PM
This happened to the previous MT once while I was the OT on the fight. In a way he is not like Chromaggus, if you are hitting him it doesn't mean he can hit you while OT'ing.
I now instruct my OT's to stand between his legs and I tell them that his hateful strike has a tiny little radius so they need to make sure they are inside there. I usually say this 3 to 4 times (hump his leg, stand inside his hit box, ect ect) before we pull so they understand it's very important.
07-13-2008, 06:39 PM
Tanked this guy suprisingly for the first time last week. We had a paladin as OT but they couldn't keep up 2nd agro and some of the dps were dying as a result. I switched to OT with a druid as MT (kind of reverse to the norm - no idea why but yeah) and on one attempt the MT died at 30% and I solo-tanked him to about 7% at which i got hit by a 15k hurtful strike (around growth 13) on top of his normal 7k hit.
Would this occur if there are no other dps in melee range? I would've thought he would normally kill off the other dps first with his hurtful strikes.
07-14-2008, 01:54 AM
You have to be within melee range to get hurtful striked, which is why its important for both tanks to get back pretty much immediately after his ground slam, as any other melee in close will take hurtful strikes if the OT isnt there, or the MT will take them if he's the only one there.
07-15-2008, 10:34 AM
If I remember this right, the hurtful strikes cannot crush or is very rare (never seen them on the combat log). But SB would be used by OT to help mitigate some of the incoming damage at high growths.
Both MT and OT have to be in melee range and threat is only a concern with the melee classes.
I've never have had a perfect boss fight (no crushes, debuffs up most of the time, and ironsheilds when needed) The lowest I've had in content-tier appropriate (not overgeared) was 1 crush, so it's something I challenge myself with. Just make sure you do all you can to mitigate/avoid some of the incoming damage, runes, scrolls or prot and agi, trinkets etc. The off tank will need to do this as well, since you can't soak both normal and hatefuls.
I used to die due to melee parries, I got parried, then a dps'r. After I became a dick (see front page post) and started asking melee dps to stay at his ass I still got parried. Turns out one of the pets were getting parried, I think they fixed that in 2.2 patch where pets attack the back of a mob, but with so much positioning from cave in's it's hard to make the damn cats do anything.
Oh and like Horatio, I got caught on an intercept as well, but instead of no rage, I took a swing in the face still in zerker stance (increased damage).
07-16-2008, 01:48 PM
Yeah, being the only one in melee range is very bad news on that fight as you found out. If that is the case be ready to pop shield wall or last stand or trinket or something.
Situational awareness is key on that fight.
07-18-2008, 10:17 AM
If I remember rightly, his attack speed is dead slow (2.0?) and if impTC is up - making it a 2.4 - is always up then almost all of his attacks, save a parry, can be covered by shield block.
Hopefully someone will correct me if I'm off the mark! :)