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Sangi
06-10-2008, 08:15 AM
I'm in an SSC/TK and we have stepped into MH a few times. We usually run with 2 pally tanks, a warrior, a bear, 7 healers and various assorted DPS. For the initial waves of trash we have no issues. The wave with the 4 necros is usually a little touch and go but we survive. However when we get to the 6th wave with the 6 abominations things deteriorate rapidly. Up until this point we are in control of the mobs and usually just AoEing things down. We have attempted to have the non-pally tanks pull some of the aboms off to the NPCs. But when we do things don't die fast enough and we get behind on the waves. The 4/4/4 wave and the 6/4/2/2 waves don't look like they would be as bad of an issue if things didn't go crazy on an earlier wave.

So I am looking for any suggestions for the last few waves for the first boss. We usually run a little light on mages and high on warlocks which makes the AoE easier and CC a lot harder. My thinking was to get one of the Pally tanks to take all of the ghouls then the other three to take two aboms each. Keep them close enough together to get the benefits of the AoE but not too close to have the poison damage tick. The 4/4/4 wave would be similar, 1 tank for the ghouls, warrior tank on the necros with assitance from the melee, and the other two tanks on 2 aboms each. And the last wave would be the pally tanks on the ghouls and the fiends, warrior on the necros and druid on the aboms. Does this sound like a valid plan? If not any and all suggestions would be welcome.

Oh I was also a little curious for those guilds that use a DKP-like system how you handle the distribution of trash mob epics. there obviously isn't enough time for a regular setup.

hbombs
06-10-2008, 08:24 AM
we give our hunters/priests/tanks assist. our pally tank takes all the ghouls and maybe one abom. The hunters mark there kite targets (usually 2 hunters) and take them to the back by the npcs. the other aboms are shackled and tanked by our 2 or 3 remaining tanks.

always have a skull up for melee to focus/burn down. always keep 2 aboms in the AOE and have tanks breaking shackles and bringing back kite targets as soon as possible.

Clifford
06-10-2008, 10:12 AM
Regarding the trash loot:
(1) We set to Group Loot
(2) People need for main spec and greed for off-spec as there isn't enough time to worry about dkp etc.
(3) They pass on all Marks and Hearts for collection/needing by an officer.

bosephus
06-10-2008, 10:29 AM
Here's what we do: have one warrior tank be a 'spell reflect tank' that stands at the point to gain initial aggro on each pull. That tank needs to learn to time improved blood rage properly or pop a rage potion to get the 25 rage to activate reflect when the necros or banshees start casting. The spell reflect tank then needs to use spell reflect on every cooldown and will be able to easily keep aggro on all the casters without physically engaging them.

The main prot pali grabs the little guys and ignores the aboms, while the other available tanks grab aggro on two to three aboms each. The spell reflect tank should only grab one abom because if he gets too many knockdowns, he can't spell reflect appropriately. So in a six abom pull, the reflect tank has one, the bear has two or three and the second pali has two or three. The main prot pali has no aboms, only the ghouls/crypt fiends.

The prot pali drags the trash group back to the spot in front of the hill so the hunter NPCs can engage and then AOE goes to town. Make sure all the tanks bring all the aboms into the AOE. As long as the other tanks keep the aboms off the prot pali, there really shouldn't be a problem.

All single target DPS kills the casters, focusing on a mark or using /assist on somebody for targeting. All AOE dps kills the aboms and other trash on the prot pali. No cc needed, and don't bother using hunters to kite the aboms around the place.

To make sure the prot pali isn't knocked down, tell the other tanks to just tab through targets, and if they see an abom who is targeting the prot pali, just taunt it off, hit it with a couple of threat moves, and then keep tabbing. Since it's only AOE on the pack, the threat load shouldn't really be very high on any single mob and I find that once I lay a few shield slams on an abom, it'll stay pasted to me while I tab target looking for aboms on the prot pali.

For dkp, we use an EPGP system. We leave it on group loot, blue level. When a piece drops, people pass on the stuff they don't need and if they want it, they type /rand. The result of the /rand isn't relevant; it only indicates to the officers interest. The person with the highest rating on the EPGP system that rolled wins the loot and then the officers use their own system to assign point costs. This requires trust in your raid members to not screw up the loot rolls.

veneretio
06-10-2008, 10:30 AM
Master looting trash is fine just decide ahead of time before the raid, who's going to get what loot. There's limited trash drops so this really isn't that hard. Just remind your raid that as much as they NEED NEED NEED it now... it's going to drop, a lot.

For the pulls, keep the abominations in with the rest of the AOE. You have the right approach in that 1 pally should tank the little guys and your warrior and bear should handle the other. I strongly suggest you run only a single prot pally though. In all honesty, 2 is complete overkill and unnecessary. Consider shackling a couple of the abominations outside of the group and as hbombs mentioned... get hunters to kite a couple back into the throng of npcs.

In the end, sounds like you really just need to put more time into SSC/TK and get better gear. Things will get infinitely easier once that's done :)

bosephus
06-10-2008, 10:34 AM
Master looting trash is fine just decide ahead of time before the raid, who's going to get what loot. There's limited trash drops so this really isn't that hard. Just remind your raid that as much as they NEED NEED NEED it now... it's going to drop, a lot.


This works too, but it's super depressing the first few times when the master looter gets killed and the loot disappears =(

But yea, after four weeks of clearing trash in Hyjal, nobody really stresses over the trash loot anymore.

Alent
06-10-2008, 10:42 AM
My guild puts it on regular group loot for hyjal and just lets the need/greed roll system sort it out. You get charged 50 DKP for winning a greed, and 200 DKP for winning a need. (ours is a slightly inflated system) It ends up balancing out because we trust each other to be fair.

Sangi
06-10-2008, 11:10 AM
And this is why I love this site. I post what I hope was a reasonably phrased question and I get great answers with out a lot of flaming almost instantly. Than you all who took the time to answer.

It sounds like the general strategy is to split them up among the tanks have the hunters kite a few out and burn the rest down. That sounds like a good plan and its nice to see some of my ideas reinforced. Now if we can just implement them properly. The last two times were mostly exploratory to see how the mechanics in there worked.

I know my raid composition is a little odd. We are a more casual guild and we tend to run with what we have. The dual pally tanks isn't because of this instance its just what we have to work with. One is regular. The other shows when he can. Our bear goes off and does DPS when we don't need four tanks. Surprisingly it works pretty well.

Gearingwise we have about 1/2-2/3 of the regular raiders running with full ZA/2.4 Badge gear. Many are passing on items in SSC/TK due to their gear being superior. The rest are getting geared and are at a mix of T4/T5 level. I am not planning on attempting MH seriously until we can clear our 5 SCC and 3 TK in two nights. That will leave us one night left of raiding and really the only other place to go is to MH. I anticipate this happening in about 3-5 weeks. That will also give us time to get in to the BGs and have every one grind out their trinkets. Out of curiosity what kind of metrics should I be looking at? Overall raid DPS and healing throughput? The WWS other guild history makes it kind of hard to gauge this and know the guild is around your level.

I will bring the loot suggestions to the other officers. You are right when there is an expectation of a boss kill masterlooter is fine. But while we are still having issues with some of the trash we are afraid of losing gear that are upgrades to wipes. I trust my raiders and I would assume that an open roll type system with a charge after words would be easy to implement.