PDA

View Full Version : First RoS attempts (Some P3 problems)



Clifford
06-09-2008, 04:22 AM
Had our first night on RoS and managed to perfect the first two Essences in the end. We had 2 attempts on Anger (P3) that didn't go well though.

Phase 1: Essence of Suffering
Our Approach
- Tank with about 700 SBV stands under him until enrage.
- Use Blessing of Sacrifice and PW:S on tank and rogues
- Dps warriors to intervene on cooldown (but angle is important to avoid fixate)
- Dispel Soul Drain

- 5 Seconds before Enrage have a rogue stand on top of tank. Tank to back off a little
- Wait for enrage then evasion tank
- Tank to back in before end of enrage - rinse and repeat.

Conclusion
- Dies by or just after second enrage.
- I was able to tank both non-enrage phases with SBV and avoidance gear.
- Rogue 1 took the first enrage and rogue 2 the second.
- Had a feral druid on standby for unlucky hit.

Phase 2: Essence of Suffering
Our Approach
- Interrupt rotation for Spirit Shock (two rogues only)
- Reflect Deaden
- Steal Rune Shield quickly else you can't interrupt.
- Keep Curse of Tongues on him at all times!

- Don't kill yourself through senseless nuking as 50% of damage is reflected back to you.

Conclusion
- Once the two rogues perfect their rotation things are easy.
- Reflecting deaden is paramount to killing him before the raid runs out of mana.
- Curse of tongues and spell stealing are equally important

Phase 3: Essence of Anger
Our Approach
- OT pull boss
- MT to taunt boss at beginning for threat increase
- Wait for Seethe to expire before raid does dps
- MT to burn rage to reduce damage from Soul Scream
- Drink nature resistance pot when hit by Spite

Conclusion
- Here is where it went wrong as I built rage so quickly that Soul Scream killed me.
- I need more practice on dumping rage as I wasn't prepared for how quickly you can die :confused:

Question
- Does anyone have advice on what the best way is to start this phase for maximum threat?
- Some people advocate using hunters for misdirect.

Dany
06-09-2008, 04:42 AM
I had a lot of problems at the beginning too, because dumping rage from 6-7k hits + the remaining rage exactly before the soul scream is just a dream, you'll take 14k hits instant even if you try hard to dump your rage.

I felt VERY stupid when I realised it, but the better way to dump you rage before a soul scream ..... is to switch stance ^^.
Exactly at the end of the soul scream timer, switch to combat stance and come back to def stance. The timer is really accurate, and since you will lose your rage anyway, that's the better way to ensure taking low damage.


When I realised that, I came to a strategy I consider wonderful :p. I decided to keep my Last Stand for the beggining of this phase. Make sure you have 100 rage before the beggining, then when you taunt, build threat like crazy with double threat (dps should wait here) and after 5 seconds, hit Last Stand. With this, you can continue to build without thinking of the soul scream since it won't be enough to kill you, even at 100 rage. Build as much as you can, and when Last Stance fade, be sure to switch stance for the soul scream and try to keep a solid threat rotation between each scream.
If you still have shield wall, it will help healers to keep the raid alive around 10%.



Still, if your incoming rage is not too big, remember shield block is off GCD of course, as well as reflect spell which is especially expensive.

Clifford
06-09-2008, 05:14 AM
Thanks - I was still coming to grips with all the options for generating threat at the start of the phase that I didn't even notice the Soul Scream timer. I need to time my taunt better as I was almost one-shotted after taunting :/

Indris
06-09-2008, 07:56 AM
First off, you don't need an OT to start tanking it, or at least the few times I tanked it that wasn't necessary - just taunt the boss as it spawns instead of white hitting it or whatever and you get Seethe.

Dumping rage indeed can be a serious problem there, I'm strongly against switching stances though as taking a big hit / aura tick in battle stance can really hurt; spellreflect is great to use right before a soulscream though - simply because it's off GCD so you can throw it in regardless of how your rotation is going when you need it, and it's 25 rage lost with no negative consequences.

Apart from that, it's just as much healer practice as tank practice really. Just give it more tries and you'll nail it I'm sure.

Clifford
06-09-2008, 09:28 AM
I didn't realise you can reflect Soul Scream ... does this negate the damage?

I also read in Wowwiki that if you shield slam after the initial taunt you can remove Seethe. Can anyone confirm this?

phaze
06-09-2008, 09:38 AM
I didn't realise you can reflect Soul Scream ... does this negate the damage?

You Spell Reflect to burn excess rage, without having to wait on the GCD and without requiring a stance dance.

Clifford
06-09-2008, 09:42 AM
You Spell Reflect to burn excess rage, without having to wait on the GCD and without requiring a stance dance.

Gotcha :D Spam to burn 25 rage each time.

Lollo
06-09-2008, 09:51 AM
Can't really advise to only use Spellreflect as ragedump as it is on a 6 sec CD and costs 22 Rage leaving 78 that might kill you.

Like Dany, I would prefer to stance dance.

Nevertheless you need to build up threat and you will eventually eat loads of damage in p3. Pop all your reserves: last stand, nightmare seeds, shadow resi pot, etc.

Once RoS is in execute range I stay in battle stance, fire shield wall and execute, execute, execute.

Btw. drink nature resi pot in p2 @ 15% so that you can drink the shadow resi pot in p3.

Indris
06-09-2008, 09:05 PM
I'm 99% sure she doesn't Spite on the maintank in P3, would just stick to ironshield on your potion cooldown really as shadowprot for it is borderline useless.

Dany
06-11-2008, 02:14 AM
Dumping rage indeed can be a serious problem there, I'm strongly against switching stances though as taking a big hit / aura tick in battle stance can really hurt


I prefer take 600 extra damage on a hit than a 9k extra damage from the scream :rolleyes:.

But still, if the damage input is not too much, thunderclap/cleave/spell reflect/shield block do the trick. I stance dance only if i'm >70 rage with all things in CD.

Worldie
06-11-2008, 02:40 AM
I'm 99% sure she doesn't Spite on the maintank in P3, would just stick to ironshield on your potion cooldown really as shadowprot for it is borderline useless.

I never got spited in ~6 months, so i'd assume it's safe to say he doesn't spite the tank.

Armageddn
06-11-2008, 03:27 AM
I'm 99% sure she doesn't Spite on the maintank in P3, would just stick to ironshield on your potion cooldown really as shadowprot for it is borderline useless.

I actually got it last reset but that may be because somebody pulled aggro for a second but i don't know

And to answer the post;

On the first rage burn i stance dance into battle stance and use mocking blow and then back to defensive stance.
On the second rage burn i stance dance and use challenging shout before going back to defensive stance.

and then after that i just spam spell reflect pop a nightmare seed at 60%, last stand at 40%-ish and SW at 25-20% to help out your healers.

The reason why i stance dance the first two rage burns is that the shadow dmg isn't that high in the begining.
I pop mocking blow and Challenging shout when i stance dance because that gives you 6 safe seconds for you to build up enough rage to maintain a solid rotation. I mead stance dance dumpes all your rage and some avoided hits may leave you rage starved for a couple of seconds.

I hope this helps and good luck =D

Dany
06-11-2008, 04:34 AM
I pop mocking blow and Challenging shout when i stance dance because that gives you 6 safe seconds for you to build up enough rage to maintain a solid rotation.


I don't really get the point. Are you afraid to lose aggro just because you lose some rage ?
Plus, I guess mocking blow and chalenging shout trigger the seethle ? If so, I think that's a bad idea :o.

Satrina
06-11-2008, 06:56 AM
We just use rogues to evasion tank phase 1 and I wear maximum threat gear for phase 3. Threat generation in phase 3 is more important than cute tricks to single tank it in phase 1 (or just use different tanks phases 1 and 3)

Phase 3 is directly tied to your threat generation to let the DPS run wild to minimise the Aura of Anger. Your initial shield slam should remove Seethe on the pull. There should be no real trouble keeping your rage burned off as it comes with heroic strikes - I've dropped Shield Block in phase 3 on occasion for rage! Hunter misdirects when it's up for threat boosts, and there you go.

If your threat generation is weak or your dps is weak, then yes, excess rage from Aura of Anger will be a problem. Burning rage like crazy to peak your threat output so your DPS can push as hard as they can is a better plan than trying to find tricks to dump rage in a wasteful way.

Armageddn
06-11-2008, 07:15 AM
I don't really get the point. Are you afraid to lose aggro just because you lose some rage ?
Plus, I guess mocking blow and chalenging shout trigger the seethle ? If so, I think that's a bad idea :o.

First of all I like to play safe when we're learning the boss and you can remove Seethe with shield slam :D

Secondly:it's a dps race from hell and if your dps are doing their job and you are left there rage starved they could pull aggro. Mocking blow and Challenging shout just buyes you some time that's all

well ofc if you are really rage starved and the dps is about to pass you on threat you could always turn your back to the boss but my post was an advice to someone in the learning stage of the boss.

Noshimo
06-11-2008, 07:57 AM
I'd like to point out a third option for dealing with Runeshield in phase 2, you can have a warlock still their felhound on it and be devouring magic. That's how we handle it ourselves, saves the mages some mana, though I wouldn't be surprised if they still try to steal it.

For phase 3 preparation, a pally giving you improved lay on hands during the AoE phase is sweet too, and then popping one of those 2500 armor potions on top of that.

As for phase 3, everyone else been saying it and I agree, no offtank needs to pick him up. All you really need to do is pick him up the same way you picked up phase 1 and 2, taunt him, and turn him around.

Stance switching can be helpful if you can get it down, I personally never was able to remember to do it, so I just don't. But I do throw in everything else I can to burn rage. Constantly shield blocking, spell reflecting, heroic strike, and so on.



One other thing I'd like to suggest to help with aggro-holding later on, something I haven't seen anyone else comment on. Save mocking blow and challenging shout for later in the fight. At 50%, taunt RoS and also pop last stand if you have it, if you don't have it then hopefully a nightmare seed or something.

When taunt wears off, battle stance and mocking blow and make sure it's connected :P.

Switch back, and taunt when mocking blow wears off, and at this point you should probably hit shield wall as well.

When taunt wears off again, hit challenging shout. And when challenging shout wears off, taunt again.



All that does is guarantee you that RoS will be on you for the next...20 or so seconds, and typically he's dead by then. We had to do that taunt rotation for awhile (and I still do just to be safe) because the amount of dps the raid puts out, combined with me constantly being left for a second or more with 0 rage = just not enough threat alot of times. It usually seems that at about 35% or so, someone would rip aggro if I didn't do that, and maybe that's just me being a bad tank, but this taunt rotation gets us around that.

Dany
06-12-2008, 05:07 AM
Burning rage like crazy to peak your threat output so your DPS can push as hard as they can is a better plan than trying to find tricks to dump rage in a wasteful way.


I'm sorry, I tried the best I could. Even used cleave instead of heroic strike, because it's more expensive.. TC when SS is on CD, reflect spell, shield block ... All together ... When the boss hit you 3-4 times in a row just before a scream, you can do whatever you want, you'll take a 12k from it.

And I don't understand your seethe thing removed :(. Maybe I'm mixing up the english names of the skills, but personnaly, I wait for the boss to pop, I wait to take 1 hit, I taunt, everybody get the seethe, nobody DPS, I build with the +200% aggro for 10 seconds, and then DPS maximum. My shield slam never removed my seethe and I get something like 50-60k aggro within the first 10 seconds.
Seethe is a debuff on every player that increase threat generation by 200%, how could it be removed with a shield slam on the boss ?
Seems I need to learn something here, please teach me :o.

phaze
06-12-2008, 05:53 AM
When the boss hit you 3-4 times in a row just before a scream, you can do whatever you want, you'll take a 12k from it.

If that happens, you still have the option of Battle Stance. Just be ready to use whatever rage-reducing method works best for you. If you can find a way to stay in Def Stance and avoid filling up on rage, you'll be able to generate better threat; that's a plus for this fight. That's where Spell Reflect comes in handy, if you start to fill up on rage.



Seethe is a debuff on every player that increase threat generation by 200%, how could it be removed with a shield slam on the boss ?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Seethe is also a 100% haste buff on EoA? SS'ing that off is a good way to avoid extra incoming damage.

Sair
06-14-2008, 08:30 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Seethe is also a 100% haste buff on EoA? SS'ing that off is a good way to avoid extra incoming damage.

Seethe is not a magical debuff, but rather a physical one. Only tranquilizing shot will remove it.

If you're not able to dump your rage fast enough and consistently take large soul screams, you're just doing something wrong - be it lack of preperation or failure to perform. Make sure you receive an improved lay on hands before phase 3, use an ironshield, and use your trinkets and cooldowns intelligently. You'll want to try and stagger some sort of cooldown for phase three, be it a simple rotation of Moroes' Trinket > Nightmare seed > Last stand > Shield wall or etc.

Also, to better illustrate what Noshimo was talking about earlier in the topic - you can your taunts at around 50% to ensure aggro is solidified. It's just an option you can do, which requires some dancing and watching debuffs, but it's extremely helpful if you feel like your threat generation was very poor and run the risk of someone pulling aggro at a lower percentage. We had pretty explosive dps, so this was commmon for us.

http://www.tankspot.com/photoplog/images/489/2_RoSTaunt.jpg

Remember if someone pulls aggro the second he decides to soul scream, it's pretty much over. Also keep in mind that all these taunts will cause a permanent seethe, and if you have dumb hunters like ours who can't tranquilizing shot to save their life, it's important to blow cooldowns to counter this.

Mysti
06-14-2008, 01:08 PM
Another option if you have hunters in the raid, is to not cause the boss to seethe at all. Just have them MD you in the beginning. You enter P3 with a full rage bar anyway(if not you should be hitting the ghosts that spawn for rage) and just go all out-(pop auto-blocker), have a shaman in your group to pop heroism and WF totem. I also use a macro to stance dance to dump rage if it looks like I need to.
macro:
/cast Shield Block
/cast Battle Stance
/cast Defensive Stance



Around 30% or so I pop shield wall and he goes down pretty fast in that time so you wouldn't have to worry about dumping rage with shield wall up.

Anyway, I'm sure you will find an option that works best for you, good luck with RoS.

Sirq
06-16-2008, 01:32 AM
Get a superduper fast weapon for fast cleave rage dumping, or HS for sum TPS =] further more just keep dem non gcd affected shizzle going like shieldblock/spellreflect

I didn't use the taunt/focus rotation to keep it on me though, I was just spamming my buttons and facerolling that shit.. hard to tank indeed, first time tanked it last week :x

Heironeous
07-04-2008, 01:55 AM
The only reliable way I've seen it done in P3 from a warrior is to stand-dance as the timer drops so you dont get hit as hard. Quick, simple, clean. Gotta have lightning timing on that one, though. 1 lag spike and you'll get pulverized. Friend's guild, sadly, had a healer revolt on this boss and Illidan. Healers came together and refused to heal the warrior tank if he attempted P3 or Illidan.

Check with your healers, see if they have have a prefrence on these strats, see if they'd rather heal one or the other, because most reasonable healers will work with their tank.

bruttall
07-04-2008, 05:10 AM
The only reliable way I've seen it done in P3 from a warrior is to stand-dance as the timer drops so you dont get hit as hard. Quick, simple, clean. Gotta have lightning timing on that one, though. 1 lag spike and you'll get pulverized. Friend's guild, sadly, had a healer revolt on this boss and Illidan. Healers came together and refused to heal the warrior tank if he attempted P3 or Illidan.

Check with your healers, see if they have have a prefrence on these strats, see if they'd rather heal one or the other, because most reasonable healers will work with their tank.

I would not recommend stance dancing. What I found is that if you get hit, while stance dancing, you have a high risk of being crushed (and taking a big hit and filling your rage bar, leading to a gib). Get yourself about 20k hp and just do your best to burn rage.

My favorite tip is to tell the DPS to not start until Seethe fades. Start the fight with a taunt and you'll generate 200% threat. Use spell reflect/int shout to burn excess rage and queue heroic strike for every hit. I typically wear avoidance over threat as it helps limit rage as well. Using Seethe to get solid initial aggro, rage starvation shouldnt be a problem.

Mysti
07-04-2008, 05:43 AM
If you use this macro when you dance:

/cast Shield Block
/cast Battle Stance
/cast Defensive Stance

shouldn't really have a problem with getting crush when dancing because your shield block will be active.

brain9h
07-04-2008, 06:46 AM
You can dance, but after you really learn the fight, you don't need it.

What I do...
1) build full rage bar in the end of phase 2
2) start phase3 with nightmare seed + ironshield + taunt
3) dump rage bar with heroic strikes + standard rotation
4) everytime rage bar is full (at 100), pop spell reflect
5) Last stand at 50%, shield wall at 30%
6) I dps seems threat capped, I tell them to go nuts and I start a taunt rotation

I suppose your issues could be healers, we setup 2 paladins + 1 druid on me, and the pallies only use top rank holy light, and they don't heal themselves, the shadow priest in their groups does.

Dunmail
07-16-2008, 06:17 AM
Hmmm

Wish I'd gone through this yesterday.
Finally got to ROS Monday, had some P2 issues, especially on the stuns/deadens.
Went back last night, discovered my Bigwigs had mysteriously died, and funnily enough when you see the spells its easier to sort them, especially with rogues taking the brunt of it, much meant P2 got nailed.

P3 just seemed nasty especially with spike damage. Having played around with gear for various phases I was generally using my feeble BV gear & blocker for p1/2. P3 looks like I need to work on the avoidance side as I was taking a few 5+k melee hits according to WWS, and the run where we got it to 30% 9K screams. The latter I'm assuming was due to not dumping the rage fast enough, even when using spell reflect. I'd thought at the time I'd burned the rage through rotation but WWS's hits look a bit different.

Third time lucky I hope, although with P2 getting nailed a Pally tank for p3 could be an option. New guild record on cleared weekly content but I can't say I feel happy and skippy having had a couple of goes at P3.

Sair
07-16-2008, 03:37 PM
I never had an issue with the insane spike damage for phase 3, even in shield block value gear. As long as you're adequately prepared, you should be fine. A few tips would be to use an ironshield potion, and having a paladin hit you with an Improved Lay on Hands during the ghost downtime (he'll get all his mana back, basically). That'll give you a significant armor boost going into phase 3.

If you still have issues, maybe change out your autoblocker trinket with Moroes's trinket, like I did. Rather than chance out all your gear, you still hang on to a lot of SBV while getting a rather nifty on use effect.

Dunmail
07-17-2008, 01:36 AM
Yeah the trinket is the logical on to add in. Anyone confirm whether you actually exit combat between P2/3 briefly to enable a trinket swap (Like Hyjal), or is it a gear from the start to finish?

I've also binned the sta/a-stun meta from my engy helm and gone for the sbv one so I'd still be up on BV. Can also cope with the hp loss having went from H-sett shoulders to Supremus which is just a 'small' boost.

Pally did do the LoH, but the pots/buttons were down, as I'd eat the pot in the last few secs of P2 for a deaden after getting a stun, have to try and avoid that in the future. WWS also shows a couple of healers going down just before I did, so it could be an idea to suss what happened there. Have to see how the next run goes with a bit better preperation then =P.

Sair
07-17-2008, 08:27 AM
Yeah the trinket is the logical on to add in. Anyone confirm whether you actually exit combat between P2/3 briefly to enable a trinket swap (Like Hyjal), or is it a gear from the start to finish?

One of our rogues managed to sneak out of combat in between phases, but I'm pretty sure he had to use vanish for that one. He would wear his own Moroes's Trinket for enrage tanking, since he had problem reaching 100% avoidance through dodge alone.


Pally did do the LoH, but the pots/buttons were down, as I'd eat the pot in the last few secs of P2 for a deaden after getting a stun, have to try and avoid that in the future. WWS also shows a couple of healers going down just before I did, so it could be an idea to suss what happened there. Have to see how the next run goes with a bit better preperation then =P.

I don't see why you should need to pot phase 2. He hits really weak, you just need better kickers. Having to blow that sort of thing early is just hurting you come phase 3.

I think our healing strategy for phase 3 involved one paladin just dedicating himself to spamming max rank holy light on the tank, while everyone else would go nuts on the raid. We had Druids use tranquility at about 50%, including ferals and boomkins. I would typically change groups in between phases and put a druid in each group to keep everyone alive that much longer.

Healers should be spamming max rank of whatever, since chances are they're going to die before they use up their mana (or RoS is going to die before they use up their mana, in the best case scenario!).

BoomBeef
07-17-2008, 09:55 AM
At the start of P3 we use MD's since we always have a couple of Hunters in raid. I taunt and they tranq the Seethe right away too. Pallies then give salvation to the Hunters. Raid Leader calls for DPS to start and while I can see the Scream toolbar I still have my Raid leader call for it's CD to be up. Stance dance is your safety cushion if you don't have the rage burned off. Dance a sec or two before to minimize any lag issues to server by the time the scream occurs.

Unlike P2 where I don't TC or Demo the boss cause he hits like a wuss, in P3 you want those debuffs up. We bring a Shadow Cauldron to raid and make everyone take it by 50% or use it as a health pot if they need to. I use it around ~50% myself. Last stand & SW as others have said. Feel free to chain taunt while shield wall is up to guarantee aggro. Fight is over fast enough and once you get it down, you will never ever worry about P3.
As far as gear, I too use max threat gear and not avoidance gear for this. Meaning expertise, hit and then BV.

Additionally for P1 we use both Prot warrior's heath bar to tank until first enrage which our rogue Evasion tanks. Then use Feral druid, Ret. Pally and Arms warrior health bars combined to tank to second enrage if he gets there. Our SV Hunter uses "deterrence" to tank the second enrage should it be necessary. We often don't have a second rogue. It is easy to get fixates as I'm sure you have found out. Use priest shield and Paladin BoSac whenever possible.