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Bloodgruve
06-05-2008, 09:13 AM
I tank on my druid but I'm not too familiar with the warrior tanking. I'm running with a warrior who does great in kara but has a hard time in a heroic or anything where he MT's and needs to hold 2+ mobs.

What skills are normally used to generate threat?
Shield Slam
Revenge
Devastate
Thunder Clap
Cleave?
Heroic Strike

Scenario - 4 mob pull, no cc, dps targets 1,2,3,4. How would you go about gaining and keeping agro?

Something like this? SS2, SB+Rev3, Dev4, Taunt1, Dev1, SS1, TC, Cleave, SB+Rev1...

TYVM
Sugrr

dlongest
06-05-2008, 09:35 AM
There's no real formula or order anyone can give you because every situation is different. Resists, misses, dodges, DPS impatience, healer anxiety, everything can come into play. The only solution is experience and that can be painful (in WoW and in life). If he's having trouble generating threat, the DPS needs to let him establish first and the healer should not throw a super huge heal at the beginning (or heal Bloodrage). It's unfair to expect all tanks to generate snap-aggro on 4 mobs and it's not probably the safest idea to assume that just because a tank usually can, he'll be able to do it every time.

I would personally open SS1, Thunder Clap, Dev1. What happens next depends on the types of mobs. For only melee, I would tab through the targets with Devastate while throwing in Thunder Clap and Cleave (since it's not on GCD I'll keep it up all the time at this point if I got the rage). Even if ranged pulls the 1st target at that point, it'll be dead before it reaches anyone in the groups I play in. The only tricky part for me is making sure I have enough aggro on target 4 for it not to run after the healer right away.

If any of the mobs are casters, I'll put up Spell Reflect as often as possible and Shield Bash a caster target when I see it casting something while still TC and Deving around and putting up Cleave. Fortunately casters die fast so same as above, #1 is usually dead before I even get into a rotation on that target so 2-4 are of more concern since they're around longer.

Daniel

Bloodgruve
06-05-2008, 10:03 AM
Thats the tough part, as a druid I use 3 setups, Mouseover lacerate, Swipe, and mangle/laceratex3/maul macro which makes it very easy to control 3 and 4 mobs. He works with SS main target, TC+Cleave macro, n Deva mouseover but has a hard time. Not quite sure whats happening..


Edit* SB -> SS

dlongest
06-05-2008, 11:01 AM
Unless his gear is absolutely atrocious (and if he's in Kara it can't be but so bad), tell him to stop putting up Shield Block to open, that's not a threat generator. Also I would not use a TC+Cleave macro that early, I would prefer to micromanage the abilities. Once you get a few moves into the fight, the macro is fine because rage will be more stable. Find the list on this site that has the amounts of threat per ability. He needs maximum threat with the minimum of moves. Hence Shield Slam, especially if it crits, is giong to offer that on the first mob and TC to hit 4. Devastate (before 5 sunders) is worth a lot, but Revenge is worth a ton for the low rage cost. TC/Cleave is the limits of the multi-mob for a warrior so it has to be mixed in to override healing aggro.

Some warriors get into mouseover Sunders to apply to secondary targets and Shield Block+Revenge macros, but I've never been a big fan of that I guess. I prefer much finer grain control of what I'm doing.

Daniel

Bloodgruve
06-05-2008, 12:30 PM
He opens with Shield Slam (*damit, confused this with shield bash). So maybe something like SS1, TC, Devastate 2,3,4 rotation and reapplication of TC n SS when available? Also he is in full kara epics cept a weap.

dlongest
06-05-2008, 01:42 PM
I would definitely give that a shot. He will probably need to Dev 1 after the first TC. Make sure he has quick access to Conc Blow in case there's a runner, he can stun them or of course use the ol' reliable taunt.

Daniel

Juised
06-05-2008, 02:05 PM
usually with most healers when using thunderclap as soon as its up will help keep threat up. what i do is open up with tclap then shieldbash etc etc and sunder the mobs around me. usually since the dps that i run with most of the time do near 1k or + dps the first mob i never generate much threat on. shield bash and a couple of devastates are good enough for the first one as it dies too fast. so what i do in that time is generate enough threat on the rest of the mobs via devastate revenge shield bash and thunderclap.

ceffo
06-05-2008, 08:50 PM
- Turn on your target of target option
- E.g Kill order (skull/x/star/nipple) and they mobs are all melee
- Turn on enemy casting option


- Pull with ranged on Skull to get initial agro
- The 4 mobs will run to u
- Tab to target X and DEV him once
- Tab to star Dev once
- Tab to nipple Dev once
- TC and then Demo shout
- Tab back to skull who will have targetted one of your group by now (this is where the target of target option comes in handy) and taunt him back and shield slam (is untauntabble) then dev x 2
- Then tab through and dev the other 3 mobs then back onto skull again
- IMPORTANT save your taunt while your tabbing through in case a noob dps deicdes to gank out of the kill rotation and taunt it back into the group
- By the time agro is lost on skull its most likely dead and mov onto X


Against 4 casters

- LOS pull
- Pop blood lust
- Pop Spell reflect when the casters are halfway through their casts
- Shield slam one caster dev norm rotation till hes dead
- All the while keep Spell Reflect up CD is up
- This will help u maintain agro on the casters.
- Ive had the 4 casters spam at once and all 4 bounced off me. :D
- Casters always drop faster than melee anywayz

practice
06-05-2008, 10:03 PM
There is a macro out there, that was in a warrior guide. that reduced the distance that tab would work. i.e I have it set to 5 yards. so after I SS, Dev the first mob, I spam tab/dev until the 3rd mob then I TC. I don't use SB a lot of the time as I want to build rage as fast as I can, but once I feel confident bout holding the mobs I start using it to help the healer out if I am taking dmg.

Also a good note, is once the first kill is down, I remark the next kill with skull, so the dps knows what one I focus on. I use a mod called luck charms wich I have near my buttons so I can click it fast.

I'm at work so I don't have the macro right in front of me, but its for the websites warrior guide the admin put together. was a great read.

Dismember
06-06-2008, 09:13 AM
I would suspect that at whatever gear level he is currently at, he's taking enough damage vs. 4 mobs that the healer is pulling aggro keeping him alive. The more damage he's taking the harder it is going to be to overcome the healing aggro, which is sometimes overlooked when it comes to tanking multiple mobs. TC spam should be enough to hold aggro off the healer. If not, he's taking too much damage. If this is the case, he can utilize CC, or as has been mentioned previously use things like tab-targeting and mouseover macros to slap more threat around.

If DPSers are pulling aggro on any mob that's not the current DPS target, let them take a dirt nap.

jlafleur
06-06-2008, 09:32 AM
No CC unless mob can fear or has a dangerous AoE ability. Shield Slam/Revenge/Devastate and Cleave while tabbing over and over gets the job done fast. Handy to have good amount of hit and expertise so you don't have any gaps in your threat generation. Rarely demo shout or thunderclap. Might do one right at the start to grab initial agro.

Spiriel
06-19-2008, 11:47 AM
I guess this is the right thread for this question...

I'd like to get the Champion of the Naaru title, but that means I have to do SH on heroic, which is pretty much my worst nightmare as a prot warrior (HMrT is worse, but there are actually good drops there).

I was thinking of assembling a gimmick 'AoE' tanking set, based around using a Petrified Lichen Guard with a Felsteel Shield Spike and stacking block rating while spamming thunder clap. It wouldn't be true AoE tanking (there would still be a kill order), but I was wondering if that would be enough to keep aggro off of the healers without having to deal with cycling between four targets while trying to hold skull.

Has anyone tried doing a heroic like that? How successful were you?

furiog
06-19-2008, 01:02 PM
try binding this to all of your keys and rolling your face on the keyboard a while on the bigger pulls (apologies if there's a macro bug here, i'm at work):

/castsequence [nostance:3] reset=2 Thunder Clap, Devastate, Devastate
/castsequence [stance:3] Shoot, Berserker Rage, Defensive Stance
/cast [target=mouseover,harm] [] Cleave

it takes a lot of the pain out of multimob tanking. you still have to pay attention to which mobs might get pulled off you, but its a great macro for actually being *able to* pay attention to which mobs might get pulled off you in the 1st place. I use it in appropriate heroics all the time. You'll have to mix in shield slams, heroic strikes, taunts, and concussion blows as appropriate to hold onto some critters, and intelligent target marking and LOS pulling are also big pluses. But the macro holds onto things above healing agro pretty well, and stands up to some decent (but not great) dps on your main target all by itself...

i usually initially pull a CC'd mob (to have some agro on it in case the CC breaks), then swap to the X (2nd target), and use taunt, concussion blow, and the mouseover cleave to hold the skull (1st target, try to make it a squishie). works fairly well for most melee-heavy pulls in the game (Underbog, Slave Pens, Shattered Halls, Shadow Lab, Ramparts, Blood Furnace, Old Hillsbrad).

Agromgmt
08-11-2008, 01:44 PM
Shield blocks generate agro, so keeping that up IS important for threat. I keep a "ghetto pally" set that stacks sbv/sr to get block threat going and the shield i use for that has a thorium spike.

t-clap and demo are good when you start, I like to t-clap every cool-down. Once his SBV is 600+ only a small amount of damage trickles in. DPS still follows a kill order, so save slam for that target and tab through (i'm a clicker tho, i don't trust tab-targeting)

Hardest part of this strat is getting healers to cooperate and NOT heal him until he drops to 2/3 health.

Abominae
08-14-2008, 01:02 PM
If DPSers are pulling aggro on any mob that's not the current DPS target, let them take a dirt nap.
I agree. The targets should be marked skull, tri, circle, X etc... And dps should always just follow the kill order. Because if the tank is not tanking that mob you pull agrro. He still TCs to gain AoE aggro over all the mobs but he focuses tanking on at a time.

Although I am very new (ignorant) to tanking. I'm not sure how you react if the healer pulls aggro. Would you just taunt that target and toss a high aggro move on it?

CyCy
08-16-2008, 02:47 PM
Although I am very new (ignorant) to tanking. I'm not sure how you react if the healer pulls aggro................................

For that situation I go pummel taunt SS get it back into the grp w/ others and pop TC then go back to my oringinal target.

Initial time in the beginning of pull is the most important to me. Luckily I run with the same healers and they don't get nervous on initial pull. But I found on 4 plus mob pulls using a counter to ten works great. What seems to work for me now... I am only 65 so I know this probably doesn't apply to heroics.

Range Pull, Zerker Rage, Bloodrage when they reach me, Hit a timer counting down from 5 to 8 depending on instance 10 if rage is a prob, TC, DEV, REV or DEV(rev should be up by now), DEV, TC at second TC is when my healer starts in and when my counter hits zero dps starts in on kill order. Skull by this point is on me like glue and I start in on X with a SS and REV when available. I have all my primary threats as mouseovers so I stay on current target throwing 2 DEVs on the next in cycle. In between I keep TC up and if DPS is rolling thru order fast I follow up REVs with cleave.

I know it may sound like overkill but I run with a 70 mage and Shammy alot and I have no probs losing aggro lately or my healer pulling agg. BTW I hate cc so I am gonna have to work on that before 70 I know but I much rather tank a larger grp then worrying about popping cc.


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HumdinThuger
08-16-2008, 08:04 PM
ok so i ran kara yesterday, killed all but 2 bosses ( shade and someone else). the mt was a pally. i was in awe at his ability to hold aggro on so many mobs. this pally refused to use cc on almost everything. is it really that easy for pallys to tank. im still not very good at tanking multiple mobs but getting better thanks to your site, i love it. is it possible to tank that many mobs as easily as a warrior. at this point i feel like a one legged man in a butt kicking contest when tanking multiple mobs. also, how do u guys deal with abrasive players who blame u for everything. check my armory and offer any advice on gear. i have 53 badges saved. going for chest piece of stoicism. thanks in advance.

hvidgaard
08-17-2008, 11:28 AM
It is an art, experiement with what works for you. I remember in my early kara days I had to tab dev cycle trough mobs to keep them on me, but now TC and Cleave does the job just fine.

Abominae
08-18-2008, 03:39 AM
It is an art, experiement with what works for you. I remember in my early kara days I had to tab dev cycle trough mobs to keep them on me, but now TC and Cleave does the job just fine.
So now you can just focus dev on 1 mod and TC and cleave do the rest? At what point did this happen gear wise?

Hedda
09-04-2008, 01:09 AM
Just have to add in that when I'm on my priest (holy) and there is multimob tanking going on (4 or more). There are many ways to heal, and although spamming is easymode, it's not very smart when the warrior is trying to hold 4+ mobs on him.

In my case I PoM him before pull, recast PoM when the first one jumps off, then renew. This alone is about 3.6K healing (2xPoM) and 1,8K threath for the warrior, on all targets!

When trying to tank 4+mobs on my warrior and a pug priest shields me as I pull, I feel like pushing that "kick" button.
All in all it's teamwork tanking 4+mobs, but the tank generally have the larger responsibility.

TC+Cleave+TabDev ftw


-Hedda / -Xh