PDA

View Full Version : how do you rate your dps'ers ahead of time?



marklar
06-02-2008, 07:18 PM
hi,
i'm pretty new to heroics, but geared well enough to be there i think (here's me (http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Exodar&n=Marklar)). my problem is i mostly PUG, and i'm not good at predicting the performance of my party, especially dps'ers. i've had some really bad runs, and i don't THINK it's me, so i try and look back at the run to figure out what happened. sorry if this is a little long...

scenario 1, my first heroic ever, and it's ramps. party is me, fury warrior, hunter, lock, pally. we wipe repeatedly before the first boss. i'm not losing any of my targets, but it seems like traps are only lasting 3-5 seconds and then loose mob is on the rampage in the backfield. on one of my corpse runs, i check recount - fury is tearing it up, but hunter and lock are at ~250dps each. warrior finally tells the other dps they got no business being there and the party disbands.

scenario 2, my second heroic in steamvaults. me, lock, fury, hunter, pally (all different ppl from the first). learning from my first experience, i do some inspecting - lots of purples this time. warrior is full PVP epics, and MS spec. lock has lots of heroic drops on, etc. we work our way up to the first boss pretty smoothly; i'm not losing agro on my main target, and not losing agro on any mobs to the healer. hunter is chain-trapping. we have one wipe due to being feared into another group, but not bad so far. then, the first boss, and it's a complete disaster. i'm holding the boss, but people are dying left and right, including me. i checked my death report, and i'm not dying from the storm, just melee. group finally disbands. i check recount: fury's at 325dps, hunter 450, and lock 650.

scenario 3, ramps again and me in dps slot (they were desperate). prot warr, me, hunter, hunter, pally. a little rough at first, but it goes very well. hunters are trapping, i'm shouting, hamstringing, executing, and even intercepting for the healer a couple times. i look at the tank, and he's got very similar to my tank gear. pally only has 800 +heals, but the run is smooth. recount: hunters are 700/550 dps, me 350 :D

at first i though my tanking troubles were due to gimped dps - seems to me that dps is MUCH more important now that it was in anything pre-heroic. but now i'm a little worried; why did he do so much better than i did with similar gear and a similar party makeup. i've been prot since level 20, and i thought i was pretty good at it. i still think so, but now the doubt-monsters are creeping in.

i want to give myself a good chance to succeed in heroics, so please help - how do you guys pre-screen your PUG party members before you start?

clavarnway
06-02-2008, 07:46 PM
Skill > Gear. You can't really judge somebody ahead of time without playing with them. I've grouped with people in blues who did great in 5 mans, held CC well, did good damage, and then there are people in full out epics (not just PVP ones either) who didn't know what the hell they were doing it seemed.

As a raider on my Warlock, I think I know what happens - playing well in a 5 man it seems actually takes more attention than doing so as a raider - raiding on a Warlock is mostly about gearing him up (the actual raiding on most fights involves moving out of fire and hitting Shadowbolt button) - but in 5 mans, a Warlock has to Banish, Seduce, Fear, etc. Basically they get lazy.

Magnuss
06-02-2008, 08:43 PM
I wouldnt worry about what the tank was doing right as i would be about what you were doing right. One of the big things in heroics is that shit happens. People mess up, traps break, fears happen, etc. When these things happen probably one of the best things you can do is have a party that knows how to recover. That is where difficulty comes from because people have to use skill and know what they can do to save a wipe. You said it yourself, on the successful run you (as a tank) know what is supposed to happen on a pull and when it doesnt work out right you intercepted to save the group. That alone can account for those frequent "shit happens" deaths. The dps is important in that they need to know how they should be dpsing and what they can do to help the group if things dont go as planned.


EDIT: Just to add this in to actually try to help you out in some way. What you could do is take charge of the group and explain contigency plans for pulls. Have the hunter set the trap somewhere you can see and tell him that if the trap breaks you need him to run to you since he already has aggro and you can pick it up instead of fumbling around with a retrap. Or perhaps assign your warlocks to fear or something of that nature. Think things through ahead of time to try and see what options you have available. If there are taurens a war stomp is a very useful way of saving a healer 1-shot. If you take charge of the group and show them that you know what you are doing then they will almost always listen to what you have to say. Hold the PUGs hand, you will make it through them alot more frequently.

Leytur
06-03-2008, 04:05 AM
If you've been pugging for months and don't have a big enough friends list so you don't have to pug anymore you're doing something wrong. :(

Finelle
06-03-2008, 05:41 AM
I check their spec/gear. Mainly spec. A sensible spec doesn't mean good dps, but a spec that looks like it came out from a dart competition usually means horrific playing. 2/5 Imp Fireball on a fire mage? Fail. Half holy half shadow? Fail.

Plenty of people have little spec quirks. But the truly "outstanding" ones that make no bloody sense are also usually the ones that don't know what to do after their first trap breaks, or Imp Blizzards the whole pack just as you pull "to slow them".

Curveball
06-03-2008, 07:24 AM
I would add that not only the skill of your party is important but their motivation. Allow me to explain!

I've noticed that those people in your party who are desperate for badges or an epic drop off the final boss tend to be attentive players who try really hard to do well. Usually they listen to me on strategies and marking and things go pretty nicely, unless of course I phat-finger a button. :D

I've also run heroic-pugs with players clearly overgeared for the content, yet they make lots of silly mistakes and get themselves killed. Mostly because the content is beneath them and it's just for fun, or because their dps is INSANE and they can't control their godly powers, hehe. I wouldn't even say it's lack of skill, just sometimes a hardcore raider in a 5man isn't really worried about the play, he/she is just their to help a friend or kill some time.

This is all general of course, I've run with plenty of raiders who were awesome and efficient and didn't pull aggro despite my average gear.

Shortypop
06-03-2008, 07:30 AM
I'd second the spec comment. The other thing to check is their gems - do they make sense or not. If they've got decent lvl 70 epics have they bothered to enchant them. Ofc a hunter who's copied a cookie cutter spec from online and knows how to gem might not be able to trap, but he might :)

I still remember the day I armoried a tank after a disasterous heroic ramps run on my mage (this was pre being able to inspect talents ingame), to discover he was 0/0/61 specced :(

Barlic
06-03-2008, 08:06 AM
Main thing is hopefully you get a group that listens and can follow instructions, since that is an extreamly useful. Since the whole point of doing instance/raids is working at a team to do something they could probably not do solo.

Other thing is look to see if they have their threat reduction talents (assuming the class has them within the tree that they are working on). This is usually a good indication if they are more pvp or pve orientated and how much more threat they will generate for their dps.

P.S. since no one has mentioned with omen 2 you can under the version option in settings be able check who is running omen, and if their version is compatible with yours, which is kind of useful.

dlongest
06-03-2008, 12:05 PM
It really depends on the dungeon I'm doing and how hard or easy I want it to be. In my normal playgroup (me tank, holy pally, MM hunter, Boomkin), we can drag pretty much any other DPS through most heroics. So I may not even check. We know each other so well at this point that I don't even have to see what they're doing if a mob gets free (HoJ, kite, Cyclone) because they'll work it out. The only time it might matter to us is in a heroic that requires burst damage (such as the last boss in SV when you have to burst the tanks down). In a PUG, the chance of something super-crazy happening is magnified as you drop a CC class for a pure DPS. For example, if you're in a party with 3 mages and you're doing Ramps, you should never have an issue with crap running around. If you do Shattered Halls with all Fury Warriors and Shaman, the precision required is that much higher.

I don't even care about the DPS meter. I don't care what it says during the run. I usually try to keep ppl from posting them early on beause people get all sexnuts about topping the meter and not about clearing efficiently without wipes. After a run, I might look at the meter if I'm thinking about adding a guy to my friends list to confirm he was pulling his weight.

Daniel

Fortriu
06-03-2008, 07:57 PM
I've started doing the daily each day - which solves the motivation issue, because people are determined to get their bonus badges - and gives me a lot of regular practice and experience tanking.

I'm starting to develop a good friends list - as well as a 'dont group with again' list. People who make it to that list often get there within the first few seconds of building the group - alarm bells for me are healers who think it'll be fine 'if the tank is geared' (normally this means they are the type that will whine and play everyone else's class for them), or dps who want a 'quick fast run' (which means they'll attack before you do and play everyone else's class for them, usually leading to wipes). I also firmly believe in skill > gear - have done a run with a spriest who admitted he had very low +dmg (he was full pvp) who did a truly excellent job.

I'm very fortunate to have a really good healer on friends, who is online at the time I am. Befriend a good healer and you've solved a very large part of it - as the alt of a mage I really have to say that dps are, ultimately, replacable if they are bad.

Edit: also compare tanking for guild with tanking for randoms. I remember healers (the ones who really like healing, and see it as a skilled, interactive role rather than the whiners who didn't really want to roll one for their guild) saying that guild runs are way too easy, and if they want a mental challenge they'll see what happens with a pug. That's what I get out of doing pugs - I resisted for a long time and just did guild runs. It certainly keeps me alert to using all my abilities.

Watch out for the ones who will try to blame wipes on you, too. The new combat log features are pretty handy for this - a bad pull can actually sometimes be due to a rogue who got too close while sapping and aggroed.

marklar
06-04-2008, 12:51 AM
cool, thanks for all the good suggestions. i have been adding people i like, which should help in the long run (and no, i haven't been doing this for months - just a few runs so far).

checking gems and enchants is a great idea that i never thought of. i have checked specs, but more out of curiosity than as a criteria. like a hunter i grouped with, "hmm, 61 points in MM seems odd..." guess that should have been a red flag.

so, as a follow up question, what if 1-2 ppl in the group clearly shouldn't be there? do you insist they get replaced before the run? what if someone is proving to be incompetent during the run? do you have any problem kicking someone mid-instance?

Fortriu
06-05-2008, 01:42 PM
Thats a tricky one. You can come off as a jerk for doing either - I try to do the armory stuff first before inviting, but it's not always possible.

I've been known to uninvite troublemakers. It probably makes me unpopular, but what the hell, its my evening and I'm not going to spend it with drama.

Punchingbag
06-20-2008, 04:49 AM
I'm a noob tank Alt with a Hunter main and while this may seem controversial, I cannot help but wonder if Pally Tanks are keeping a lot of DPS stupid at least in regards to PUGs. (i.e. ruining it for us Warriors)

Allow me to explain...

I frequently ran in some PUGs with a Pally Tank playing on my Hunter and got to learn him over time. I basically discovered that it was practically impossible for me personally to get aggro away from him. After awhile I found I could even multishot! without worrying about anything. Pallys just seem to have so much advantage when it comes to multi-mob tanking from my DPS-side experience.

What this means is that DPSers stay dumb or get lazy in this regard. They don't have to follow a strict kill order with the Pally. They don't have to worry about pulling aggro with the Pally. So it must just be that you just suck Mr. Warrior tank. Let's get a Pally tank to replace this guy.

I check Omen on my Pugs and see that a lot of DPS don't have it installed. (it least that is the way it appears to me)

I also wonder if a lot of DPS understand aggro at all other than "that's the stuff the tank is supposed to get". Worst offenders for me have been mages and rogues. Rogues are just in class of their own when it comes to this. Damage meter freaks that don't seem to care about anything else. I still get them actually attacking the mob I pulled before it reaches me. One taunt down the toilet. Mages seems to let loose without any regard for aggro. Not sure if 1/2 of them know what threat is.

I was on a Heroic Bot run on my Hunter the other night and someone threw up a damage report. They commented I was #1. (never my goal) I noted that I was holding back. The other said they were too but I could see they were not. I consider myself a good DPS player for a group and always hold back. My Hunter works in a group like this:

1. Tank marks and pulls
2. WAIT - This is the part my tank can't seem to get across to anyone
3. Skull down to about 95% - cool
4. Start of with the Poison sting - not big damage but gets a dot working
5. Normal Shot - mix in a Steady or so
6. Mob coming down to 70-75% (maybe less)
7. Load up heavier shots (Arcane, more Steadys) Drop in a Concussion shot that might stun the mob and give the tank less dmg
8. Watching my sting and re-upping it if it is coming off
9.Mob below 50%
10. First Aimed Shot is coming about this point
11. Mob Dead
12. Put my Hunter's Mark on next marked target and start at #2 again

All while watching myself on Omen

Guess what? 90% warning comes up. I STOP DPSing. I know that is a novel foreign to a lot of DPS out there, but it works. I don't surpass the tank's threat when I am not DPSing.

As a Hunter, I also watch for any stray/lost mob coming to the healer. If he comes I am concussion shotting him asap to slow him down. I move towards healer and drop ice block trap in front. If it misses then I pull the pet and stick him on the stray mob. I will kite him, kill him, trap him, or whatever I need to do until either the tank can taunt him back, party is ready to take that mob, or I am dead.

Boss fight? I MD to tank after the pull and drop 3 heavies from the get go. Little boost to the tank's threat that should stick the boss to him like glue.

So I think that it takes aggro aware players to work with Warrior tanks. While a lot of people prefer pallys, I prefer the Warriors since they don't have to stop and drink after every fight. (plus they don't look like a fruity elf) :D

Sprot
06-20-2008, 05:12 AM
Guess what? 90% warning comes up. I STOP DPSing. I know that is a novel foreign to a lot of DPS out there, but it works. I don't surpass the tank's threat when I am not DPSing.

just feign death for 1/2 a second, pop up & continue nuking like there was no tomorrow? You're the one class with the luxury of a full aggro reset every 30 seconds, use it. What I don't understand is the Aimed shot though, in the time that takes you could pop what, 2 autoshots and 1-2 steadies, resulting in more damage than the Aimed?

Other than that, yes, many people have no clue at all how aggro works, and good paladin tanks spoil them, that's for sure.

-Sprot

Punchingbag
06-20-2008, 05:21 AM
just feign death for 1/2 a second, pop up & continue nuking like there was no tomorrow? You're the one class with the luxury of a full aggro reset every 30 seconds, use it. What I don't understand is the Aimed shot though, in the time that takes you could pop what, 2 autoshots and 1-2 steadies, resulting in more damage than the Aimed?

Other than that, yes, many people have no clue at all how aggro works, and good paladin tanks spoil them, that's for sure.

-Sprot

Yeah, I do use FD but usually it's not an issue on non-boss fights. Forgot I even doing that it since it is so second nature. Of course, not all DPSers have that option. Point was you have to keep your aggro under the tank.

Aimed is power punch. In addition to the guaranteed 870 bonus damage it can crit for the some of the hugest pops a Hunter can deliver. Figuring a roughly 30% crit chance I try work one in when I can.

On a Boss fight I will drop even more. One immediately following popping my Bestial Wrath with Rapid Shots. At this point Steady shots are as fast as I can hit the button and Aimed Shots are very quick. Like to wait about 5-10 seconds into the boss fight to pop it. I watch for sunders.

Sirq
06-20-2008, 07:22 AM
my first impression comes from their english, since im on EU server, it tends to suck balls on the common noobs amongst the community. stereotypes arise quickly, esp on dutchies, hungarians, swedes. even though I'm a dutch bastard myself, i'd rather have none in the group unless I know em pretty well. honestly don't look to sharp at their gear, more at the way they walk, key turners is a no go tbh :P.
also class dependant, CC'r if they're slow at cc'ing i just avoid it, mages sheeping when the mob is near me, or hunters that place a trap _after_ the pull, stuff like that.
I also look at a weird thing, atleast I think it's weird of me, at the rate they start to drink when they go OOC, cus I tend to, kinda, plow through any trash, so mye .. I Guess that's that,
/chaos post > all myessssssss

loquatious
06-20-2008, 11:36 AM
@Punching


I think you are totally gimping yourself. You wont pull aggro until you cross 130% of the tanks threat so i'd change the warning from 90% to something a bit more aggressive. I think you may want to hold off for the first 5% - thats sensible, but then go crazy with max dps, when your threat gets close you FD and you should be able to blast away until the mob drops.

mattdeeze
06-20-2008, 12:09 PM
Keep in mind that in your first example the lock and hunter were having to focus on CC targets, while the fury war had the luxury of just going hog wild. Recount doesnt really help to determine who is doing thier job based upon dps alone.

Punchingbag
06-25-2008, 12:39 PM
@Punching


I think you are totally gimping yourself. You wont pull aggro until you cross 130% of the tanks threat so i'd change the warning from 90% to something a bit more aggressive. I think you may want to hold off for the first 5% - thats sensible, but then go crazy with max dps, when your threat gets close you FD and you should be able to blast away until the mob drops.

Good idea. I need to look into upping the threshold on Omen. (sure it is in the settings somewhere) :)

Ran Heroic bot the other night on the Hunter with a Rogue and another DPS. As Rogues love to do, he pulled up the Damage Meters at the end so he could see his name in lights. How sad when he seen I was #1 on the board.

I've played the Hunter a long time now and frankly I'm usually not in an "about to pull aggro" situation unless it is a long fight or something goes bad. I play it a little more aggressive than I typed it up but I don't want to give any noob DPS the wrong ideas. :)

Barlic
06-25-2008, 07:42 PM
Good idea. I need to look into upping the threshold on Omen. (sure it is in the settings somewhere) :)


If you open the omen settings, there is an option called modules, hit the plus beside it to expand it, then expand single target mode. Under single target mode is an option for warnings in which you will find the threat warning point, plus you can set the sound effect to other sounds, for example a rubber ducky.

minrog
06-28-2008, 05:44 AM
I look at Gems and Enchants but mostly to see if it is someone's alt. If they are 95% crafted gear with a bunch of common gems in there they might be better than you think. Some of my friends who raid all the time and have very little time to play their alts have piles of cash. If they are wearing a bunch of mis-matched stuff it probably means they don't have any sort of pattern or plan for their character. I've found that the color of the gear doesn't make as much difference as consistency of item level (eg all 70 quest/dungeon blues versus 2 PVP honor pieces, a couple of greens and a few rep rewards).

For the Hunter above, don't use Aimed shot if you want to do dps. I mean they might as well changed it's name to "Cycle/2 Damage Reducer Shot". I know this is absolutely the wrong forum to discuss hunter shot rotation and DPS but if you have been using Aimed you should maybe check out elitist jerks to see why it's so terrible.

Muffin Man
06-30-2008, 01:38 AM
I play on a US server (well Blackrock gets a lot of Aussie/Qiwi players but my point will still hold), so if someone is hard to communicate with it's a huge red flag, since 99% of the time it's not a language issue. But most likely a maturity issue.

I'm not in heroics yet, so this could change, but just having reasonable people who have been paying attention on the trek to outland is usually all it takes to have a run go smoothly.

Now I'm hoping this will still be true when I get to heroics and raiding.

re: Rogues, I have noticed they never follow markings. They just sap whatever they feel like and expect me to pull the other guy(s).

re: Mages, I used to hate them pre-outland. All that aoe and faith in frost nova... But in outland it seems like all the mages behave better... or all the crappy ones just pvp. I'm not sure what happened, but I'm not complaining.

Treenaa
07-02-2008, 07:38 PM
Pretty much it all comes down to knowing the dps from having run with them before. You see great players wearing lackluster gear sometimes, and lackluster players wearing really great stuff. Best bet is to just keep a list of who run with that you would like to play with again.

Valley
07-09-2008, 12:12 AM
Off topic. Aimed shot as anything other than an opener/md is bad. It resets your auto shot timer. So in reality from the time you start casting aimed till your next auto shot is at least 5 seconds. In that time you could easily get in at least 1-2 steadies, a special and 2 auto's.

off topic2: I think the only class that gets away with more than 50 points in a single tree is shaman. Resto shaman to be precise. 0/5/56. So anyone who is 61pts in a single tree is a giant red flag.
On topic. There are alot of things I look at before even having to resort to armory.

First, guild.
I'm sure on all of your servers you have those guilds. The ones who will take any scrub, pvp all day, etc. These people I try to generally avoid. Chances are they will roll in sporting their welfare epics. Thinking they're hot stuff. Pvp specced (which is fine for the most part).

Secondly is name.
Thats right, your name. What you've decided to call your character plays a large part in what I will judge you by before I play with you. We've all seen the XXlegolazXX's, or sefiroths. Or the warlocks with doom or death in their name. Rogues with stab, or gank. Something to that effect. It tells me out of the box, that you have an immature streak. Unoriginal and childishness only gets you so far, I believe that line is right before you reach the awesomepurplesness of badge gear. Not to say I don't take these people occasionally but if my choice is between Rogue A with legitimate fantasy sounding name. Or Stabbymcstabstab, I'm taking rogue A.

3rd class
I hate taking multiple classes to certain places. Extra rogues don't always play well. Either mis sapping, competition between themselves. Sub optimal specs also tend to get the if no one else is available clause. Those however fall after criteria 1 and 2. If your an dps warrior from some pvp guild that hasn't seen past gruul, and you have a stupid name, probably not taking you.

Lfg comments.
If I'm looking for say a healer and there is a shaman and a druid in the lfg Que. I'm gonna take the one that mentions in their comment they are a healer. Rather than waste my time asking them in tells I'll take the one that took the little extra moment to mention what they are. I'm sure all the resto druids out there hate getting tells to tank places by people who don't read their comments, I know I hate it.

Tells,
This actually works both ways. If I'm lfm and you send me a tell thats a bit of a bonus so long as its applicable. You can see what I have in my group. If its me (war) mage, warlock rogue, don't send me a tell as another dps class asking if I need dps. This is more of a pet peeve for people not being aware of whats going on since it tells you right there what I already have. Also getting a tell before I recive a random group invite is a great way to earn pregame points. Especially if seeking multiple dungeons.

Friends/guild
I try to start with people I know obviously. Typically out there you know you'll run across people you remember. You may not remember the specifics but you will recall if their name had a positive or negative connotation.

Rev13
07-09-2008, 06:08 AM
My Hunter works in a group like this:

4. Start of with the Poison sting - not big damage but gets a dot working

Unless you have imp stings, Serpent Sting is a massive waste.


5. Normal Shot - mix in a Steady or so
6. Mob coming down to 70-75% (maybe less)
7. Load up heavier shots (Arcane, more Steadys) Drop in a Concussion

If you're gonna conc a tanked mob (thus putting conc on cd) make sure you do 2 things:
1. follow with a steady for the damage bonus.
2. make sure no mobs are breaking off before firing that conc, else you cant use conc to help a healer out.


8. Watching my sting and re-upping it if it is coming off\

If you want to sting a target effectively, give it scorpid sting, tanks appreciate the 5% extra dodge :)


10. First Aimed Shot is coming about this point

why? keep up steady/auto rotations and you will do more damage.

sounds like you like going oom while doing less damage.


90% warning comes up. I STOP DPSing. I know that is a novel foreign to a lot of DPS out there, but it works. I don't surpass the tank's threat when I am not DPSing.

You also dont surpass the tanks threat if you FD :P FD is far more effective than standing still for a few seconds looking tarded.


Boss fight? I MD to tank after the pull and drop 3 heavies from the get go. Little boost to the tank's threat that should stick the boss to him like glue.

Aimed shot is actually a good choice here, followed by arcane, but after that, a steady/auto rotation is all you need to be doing.

Punchingbag
07-09-2008, 03:10 PM
Unless you have imp stings, Serpent Sting is a massive waste.


/disagree

Only knock I hear is mana-related. I don't have mana issues.



If you want to sting a target effectively, give it scorpid sting, tanks appreciate the 5% extra dodge :)


No damage, but I can see that.



sounds like you like going oom while doing less damage.


I never run out of mana.



You also dont surpass the tanks threat if you FD :P FD is far more effective than standing still for a few seconds looking tarded.


Think you missed my follow up. Also, Aimed Shot with Rapid Killing in effect is a different story. I use AS a lot less in situations where it would be a normal full cast time.



Aimed shot is actually a good choice here, followed by arcane, but after that, a steady/auto rotation is all you need to be doing.

Damage isn't an issue in this game. Tons of people can put out tons of damage. However, those that can put out a consistent high level of damage without upsetting the group dynamic are the most valuable.

My OP was more of a lesson for those noobs who are pulling aggro away from the tank and not a primer on maximizing damage. I'm doing fine on the damage meters although I rarely care about position in the list.

When it comes to Hunters one of the biggest things I see overlooked is getting hit capped. I've inspected Hunters in "big time" raiding guilds who are running around with 80-100 hit.

Like the old saying goes "if you don't hit, you don't crit". My hunter is hit capped which means I'm not throwing shots away like some people are. Sure I had to give up some crit and some AP to get it but I feel it is important.

Valley
07-09-2008, 08:27 PM
@hunter dps.

If your not going balls deep from the start your not doing your max potential. With a 30 second cooldown complete agro wipe the first 3 shots from misdirect not evening counting. It completely boggles my mind when I only see hunters feigning to avoid a wipe.

Rev13
07-10-2008, 05:44 AM
[quote=Valley;85953]When it comes to Hunters one of the biggest things I see overlooked is getting hit capped. I've inspected Hunters in "big time" raiding guilds who are running around with 80-100 hit.[quote]

Well you might also want to check their guild roster for the following:

any dranei, especially dranei Survival or BM Hunters. (I'm not positive if heroic presence applies raid-wide or just party) but thats 1% extra chance to hit, thus lowering their +hit from gear to....crap.....115-ish to be hit capped.

Also, check for spell dps druids. imp frarie fire also improves chance to hit, thus lowering the need for Hunters to stack +hit on their gear even more.

Check their spec, if they're in a "big time" guild, they might be Survival, and Surefooted might be specced, thats 3% chance to hit.

If a Hunter has all these things in his group/raid, I read it takes only 95 hit rating to get hit capped. so 80-100 migth look bad on the surface but doesnt take into account other factors.

But if we're gonna argue dps stuff, lets take it to brigwyn.com instead :)

Punchingbag
07-10-2008, 09:18 AM
[quote=Valley;85953]When it comes to Hunters one of the biggest things I see overlooked is getting hit capped. I've inspected Hunters in "big time" raiding guilds who are running around with 80-100 hit.[quote]

Well you might also want to check their guild roster for the following:

any dranei, especially dranei Survival or BM Hunters. (I'm not positive if heroic presence applies raid-wide or just party) but thats 1% extra chance to hit, thus lowering their +hit from gear to....crap.....115-ish to be hit capped.

Also, check for spell dps druids. imp frarie fire also improves chance to hit, thus lowering the need for Hunters to stack +hit on their gear even more.

Check their spec, if they're in a "big time" guild, they might be Survival, and Surefooted might be specced, thats 3% chance to hit.

If a Hunter has all these things in his group/raid, I read it takes only 95 hit rating to get hit capped. so 80-100 migth look bad on the surface but doesnt take into account other factors.

But if we're gonna argue dps stuff, lets take it to brigwyn.com instead :)

I'm Horde so there are no Draenei except the ones laying dead at our feet. :)

Ones I seen were 41/20 BM Hunters.

Thanks for the site. Haven't checked that one out before. I need stay here and work on my Tank though. :)

thx

Squeegiemama
07-12-2008, 09:05 AM
Not to say I don't take these people occasionally but if my choice is between Rogue A with legitimate fantasy sounding name. Or Stabbymcstabstab, I'm taking rogue A.

This made me laugh...but it's the truth :D

MescoOrc
08-04-2008, 08:20 AM
If you reeeally want some way to rate them before you venture into a heroic with them. You could check them out on "be.imba.hu"
See whether they have been socketing/enchanting cheap or just plain bad etc.

CyCy
08-04-2008, 10:18 AM
Pugging is Pugging. But if you see someone "LFM need tank and heals then gtg" STAY AWAY this is three nubs. And anyone who throws you an invite prior to a tell no way. I really only run instances with people I know and if someone new is in the run and they're any good I add em to friends.


As far as the hunter comments........If you stop at 90% and are doin nothin you are not helping your grp. Aimed is an opener only after MD and should only be used after MD cd is over. Yeah omen will announce you at 90% at range you can run up to 130% you need to learn how to back off use FD or just go whiteshots. What if the main healer stopped healing the tank when he hit 90%.

hvidgaard
08-05-2008, 10:32 AM
They can have all the gear in the game but still wipe you 8 times though a simple Mech run, or they can be in green blues and be a breeze because they know how to play. DO NOT, I repeat DO NOT rate players based on gear.

orcstar
08-05-2008, 02:54 PM
Mhhh,
I rate players by how much they complain. I'm the kind of tank that how bad the odds look, if it doesn't work I'll make it work. I'm lazy also so I'm most of the times the last one invited into groups.
Players I prefer: the ones that stick around and don't give up after half a wipe.
Like a joke.
Can keep up with me.
And: dont get hostile towards other players for mistakes.

If people don't stick to the killorder they die. If the rogue stunlocks the first target I won't tank it, if a mage sheeps late, his sheep gets broken over and over. etc. etc. The message comes through fast enough. I do my job, and if the dps don't do theirs they have to take the consequences.


...off topic2: I think the only class that gets away with more than 50 points in a single tree is shaman. Resto shaman to be precise. 0/5/56. ...Sorry, this is kinda of a holy war but while 0/5/56 is the most used resto cookie cutter spec, in most cases 8/0/53 is superior and if you're going down enhancement tree then at least get improved ghostwolf. Getting only 5 points in the enhancement tree is just a waste of points.

dawnrose
08-06-2008, 03:21 AM
Sorry, this is kinda of a holy war but while 0/5/56 is the most used resto cookie cutter spec, in most cases 8/0/53 is superior and if you're going down enhancement tree then at least get improved ghostwolf. Getting only 5 points in the enhancement tree is just a waste of points.
That's exactly what I was thinking when I specced my resto shaman :)
He is 0/7/54 :)