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View Full Version : Hyjal and your pally tank



hbombs
06-02-2008, 10:33 AM
How much of the trash at once do you have your pally tank?

We have him pick up all ghouls and shackle/OT the Aboms/crypts. We let the pally have a few crypts and maybe one abom at first.

He is in badge/za and maybe 1 piece t5. You can armory him tantus on shattered hand if you wish.

I personally think he can handle more.

we are 2/5 hyjal this is basically our first week in there (did rage a while ago for fun but focused on killing Vashj first)

byechee
06-02-2008, 11:53 AM
just have him keep tanking more and more until he's too hard to heal. pretty sure most prot pallies can tank everything on a wave with the exception of the aboms. he could probably try to pick up a few casters too, but I wouldn't overdo it.

Kavtor
06-02-2008, 12:12 PM
He should be fine with everything except Abom's & the shadow casters. The stuns from the abom's can ruin his day, but you should be able to handle everything else.

Honorshammer
06-02-2008, 12:13 PM
Aboms can spell quick death if you've got the ghouls on you (and you should). In my gear (which is similar to your Paladins), I can handle 1 Abom on me, but it's usually touch and go until the other tanks grab theirs. On waves without Ghouls, I grab an Abom and tank it without much issue.

The other place I can get in trouble is the Necros. 4 Shadow Bolts coming at once is generally going to have a negative impact on my contining to remain upright.

The key to Mount Hyjal is Block Value. You've got so much beating on your at once. Even blues like the Devilshark Cape and the Steam Hinge of Valor are good to use here. Also, the 2.3 Paladin boots (Sabatons of the Righteous Defender) are superior for Hyjal to the 2.4 boots (Blues Greaves of the Righteous Guardian).

Antheron and Rage's trash isn't too bad. It's when you take the ride to horde camp that things get interesting.

hbombs
06-02-2008, 12:35 PM
Awesome responses thanks guys. This should pick up our pace a bit.

Singi
06-02-2008, 01:37 PM
I tank everything on every wave aside from one the hunter kites, and all the necros are sheeped. Im in okay gear but maybe our healers are just that awesome. We have only tanked first two boss waves though.

Edit: also the main bear tank will take an abom to ease pressure.

Kamani
06-02-2008, 01:59 PM
I'd honestly just have the guild bank pay for one of your holy pallies respec Prot.

Hyjal's easiness scales exponentially with the amount of mage, warlocks and protadins. With 4 locks, 4 mages and 2 prot pallys you could probably kill the first 4 bosses your first night in there.

Worldie
06-02-2008, 07:51 PM
Free Action Potion

That said, 1 abomination is survivable, 2 is probable death, 3 is 100% splattered Paladin.

Necromancers/Banshees should be CCd, tanked by warriors or nuked down by melees.

pompuspilot
06-02-2008, 11:20 PM
we usually roll in mh with me, prot pally, feral druid. the pally picks up everything except the aboms. sometimes tho we cant keep them off him and he gets to see his maker. 4 tanks makes the trash really easy which we usually dont have.

Clifford
06-03-2008, 02:43 AM
One of our holy paladins respecs prot with T4 and one/two BoJ items. He handles just about everything except for the necromancers (melee + spellreflecting warrior) and abominations (other tanks pull these off him).

hbombs
06-03-2008, 10:22 AM
ok another question I have his with the abominations. If we have the pally tanking one and the warriors on the other is it ok for the warriors to drag a few into the AOE? Right now we bring 2 into the AOE but never more then that because of a stacking debuff or some AOE damage.

Honorshammer
06-03-2008, 10:44 AM
ok another question I have his with the abominations. If we have the pally tanking one and the warriors on the other is it ok for the warriors to drag a few into the AOE? Right now we bring 2 into the AOE but never more then that because of a stacking debuff or some AOE damage.

It's going to depend more on your healers. The Aboms have a Poison Aura dealing roughly 750 damage to everyone around the Abomination every 3 seconds.

If they can keep the tanks up with those AoEs going great, but if you loose a tank, the free Abom could wipe your raid.

Stegho
06-05-2008, 03:11 AM
I'm surprised no one here has mentioned how great it is to have a warrior tank the casters while the Paladin tanks the beasties. Be in front of all, pop spell reflect, and guide the melee mobs through the consecrate. Continue popping spell reflect. Cake.

Don't really need any cheeps at all if you do this.

Nicki
06-05-2008, 04:09 AM
ive seen a paladin in a pug no less tank every abomination on winterchills trash in badge/za gear.The warrior helped out on casters and crypt fiends. It is doable to have a paladin tank all the trash in hyjal (Melee not casters) but your healers need to know they are gonna have to spam heal.

Personally in my pre t6 gear Ive tanked 3-4 aboms at once a bit scary but not impossible.

Honorshammer
06-05-2008, 06:00 AM
ive seen a paladin in a pug no less tank every abomination on winterchills trash in badge/za gear.The warrior helped out on casters and crypt fiends. It is doable to have a paladin tank all the trash in hyjal (Melee not casters) but your healers need to know they are gonna have to spam heal.

Personally in my pre t6 gear Ive tanked 3-4 aboms at once a bit scary but not impossible.

WTB your healers

theskank
06-05-2008, 11:48 PM
ive seen a paladin in a pug no less tank every abomination on winterchills trash in badge/za gear.The warrior helped out on casters and crypt fiends. It is doable to have a paladin tank all the trash in hyjal (Melee not casters) but your healers need to know they are gonna have to spam heal.

Personally in my pre t6 gear Ive tanked 3-4 aboms at once a bit scary but not impossible.

I to tank everything and then we have t warriors that get the casters leave the aboms on me until the casters are down. I sit at 16600 stam unbuffed and 50% avoidance in my stam set with 417 SD unbuffed. As long as the healers are proactive on me I dont even have a problem at all. If the healers try to go reactive yeah that is death. But shoot i have tanked the majority of the trash mobs on third boss in hyjal as well. Its all about your healers and if they are reacting or overhealing. Typically the warriors will pull aboms off me one at a time so we can single target them down. I am in a mix of 2.4 badge loot / t5 with some hyjal gear. Someone posted earlier that 3 aboms is death 100 percent of the time. Not so at all your tanks gear as alot to do with it and the capability of your healers is a big part of it as well.

If your doing your job you can afford to have numerous healers on you since no one else aside from warriors are taking any damage.

AegisFive
06-06-2008, 10:56 AM
I personally field most of the melee trash myself. Our Main Assist leads the raid in burning down the casters. Our other tanks lead one mob (usually an Abom to take some heat off me) back to the NPC mobs to get them and Jaina/Thrall involved. Our healing team is really on point and knows to spam heal me when the Aboms stomp into play. I'm at roughly 22-23K stam fully raid buff with a lot of dodge. So when I've had to soak 5 Abom from time to time, I can.

Tedd
06-30-2008, 01:58 PM
Abominations make great hunter kite targets if your paladins are having a hard time staying alive.

We usually have proactive healing on all our paladin for the first 20 seconds or so while the other tanks pick up abo's and the hunters go to work. It is INSANE how much incoming damage our paladins can take while we spam our biggest heals.

We also have an entire melee group + 2 - 3 mages to take care of the necros (Horde camp is all it really matters.) Remember to make sure they keep those guys occupied, or you will have frost mages demon dudes all over your raid!

Also, your paladin can take abominations, you just have to have super heals.

Tirani
07-02-2008, 05:10 AM
I'm always trying to tank all the ghouls/abominations and crypt fiends. The other tanks will then pull the abominations from me to help the healers keep me alive. So it's all the ghouls plus whats left over for me to tank, 2 abominations or fiends...


The Banshee/Necro Wave ist the only wave where I'm not trying to get the attention of all enemys ;)

hbombs
07-02-2008, 07:01 AM
cool cool I forgot about this little thread. thx for the responses. I do the spell reflect deal and bring everything to the pally. while melee and other tanks deal with necros. Spell reflect literally holds agg forever it seems.

Im going to tell my healers to spam the pally and let him take a bigger beating. he should be able to handle it.

uglybbtoo
07-02-2008, 11:02 PM
cool cool I forgot about this little thread. thx for the responses. I do the spell reflect deal and bring everything to the pally. while melee and other tanks deal with necros. Spell reflect literally holds agg forever it seems.

Im going to tell my healers to spam the pally and let him take a bigger beating. he should be able to handle it.

Just tell him to gear for max avoidance not block he needs to avoid getting stunned by aboms as much as possible. Finally to make life easy make one of healers a druid with instructions to keep hots running no matter what. If an abom stuns him he is going to wear unmitigated hits from everything he is tanking and unless they feel like playing how fast can I heal it's easier just to keep hots running.

Heironeous
07-04-2008, 01:14 AM
I've been unloved for the most part by my previous guild, and I only get a small break in my new one. If it's undead, and it's not a banshee: I tank it. 4-aboms, 6-aboms, whatever. I get all of them and the ghouls, and the whatever-else. All at once. All in the skull.

This was a problem that popped from really REALLY lazy warrior/feral tanks who just wanted to kite easier mobs so they could get them to pull friendly NPCs into the fight. Leaving me (who only switched to prot for Hyjal) in the hot seat.

Dealing with it: Have a cotton-candy mace and a high armor/Stam shield. Stack your dodge gear. Innitiate the pull with a Captain America, then when you've slown down the front mobs pop holy wrath. As they come in, stun the first abom, judge light on him, bring up light, swap to a heavy avoidance shield/suneater with mongoose. You'll hold aggro the whole way through and dodge like a mofo. Keep up a macro to let them know you're stunned, keep 4 healers on your spamming.

Now... you know why I get 86g repair bills on Hyjal Clears with no wipes.

rocket808
07-06-2008, 01:10 AM
I have successfully solo'd the Aboms of wave 5 of Kazrogal. Our Druid went to eat the Necromancer SBs where it gave them time to clump up for the beautiful Holy Wrath to nail them. The rogues and melee went in to clean up the 4 necros, and shortly thereafter, the druid tank died to bad timing of healer movement.

Needless to say, I was in full avoidance gear, popped the moroes trink early on, stoneformed, and called out on TS all knockdowns. The healers stepped it up, and 64% avoidance probably helped too.

Inside, I was pretty stoked knowing the general difficulty for tanks with the knockdown gib, but survived. The rest of the raid just thought it was normal. "Rocket tanking 4 Ghouls, and 6 aboms, big deal".

If your raid DPS is high enough, then it lowers the time that you have to tank, which increases your survivability. You will know when you are trusted when the warlock come in and chain hellfire (aka melee range), as well as other squishies knowing that your threat output protects them.

Elson
07-06-2008, 04:59 AM
Kinda interesting to see how the perspective on this has changed since the OP.

The way my guild does it is to just have me tank everything that isn't a caster on most waves. This means up to 6 abominations + ghouls, etc. The other tanks pick up the casters, stragglers, or some random mob from the mess to give the mele something to chew on so they don't get killed from the aboms aura. Shackles tend not to be used much except for on banshees, and necromancers that aren't tanked generally find themselves grazing on landscape.

While avoidance is good, I cannot agree that sacrificing significant amounts of effective health for it is the way to go with this approach. Avoiding the stuns is great, but you WILL get stunned, and your avoidance won't do you anything during that time. Again while avoidance should not be ignored, I very much recommend favoring effective health/spell damage for this approach. I also recommend having a moderate amount of block value, but don't go out of your way to stack it.

Depending on group composition for the night and positioning I'll have anywhere from 20-22k health. 18.5k armor, with about 48% dodge/miss/parry for the trash. During the bad waves I will often pop a ironshield potion/nightmare seed to give the healers more room to keep me alive. I've been as high as 24k health and 25k armor with inspiration procs during some of these waves. This much effective health makes the stuns that were once regarded as instant tankadin killers, into about the only thing on these waves that will keep you awake.

That having been said, it does require spam healing, and proactive healing to handle the spike damage. No matter how you gear yourself. This approach is really going to succeed or fail based on the skill of your healers.

uglybbtoo
07-06-2008, 10:05 PM
I don't think things have changed it's just there are 2 parameters at work the wave has to be tanked and it has to be killed before the next wave.

Any hijal pally tank could prob tank the majority of the wave as long as massive spam heals coming in on him ... This trick is favoured by raids stocked up with AOE classes cause they are going to use the group em up and AOE em down approach. I have done it this way had 4 druids on me with rolling blooms on me I think from memory was something like 16K heals per second.

The alternative is the split em up and get NPC's involved this approach is favoured by those raids with fewer AOE classes. Also done it this way little easier on healers and pally tank.

Both work it's more about raid composition and getting the waves down in time.

2ndNin
07-09-2008, 05:27 AM
I tank up to 6 aboms + any non-caster trash (used to do 2 and anything in the consecrate including necros). You can survive Abom waves like that, your healers just spam heal you through it, but its fun!

ramboschox
07-11-2008, 01:50 AM
we usually roll in mh with me, prot pally, feral druid. the pally picks up everything except the aboms. sometimes tho we cant keep them off him and he gets to see his maker. 4 tanks makes the trash really easy which we usually dont have.

and in waves with 6+ abos? U wont be able to tank 3 as a warrior (stuns, nearly no passive thread)

in our raid, i just pull with HW and then the feral and teh warrior taunt each up to 2 abos out of the bundle. works fine, sometimes dds overnuke some of the adds i havent tabbed through enough, then the war or druid stay rdy to bring thos adds back to concecration.

Worldie
07-11-2008, 04:50 AM
In the waves with 6 aboms generally the paladin can handle one or two on himself.

Dreadski
07-12-2008, 11:06 PM
Aaesop is our prot pally. Even with all my expertise I sometimes have trouble pulling trash off him without taunt. The kid stays alive too, he stacks the shit out of block value and block rating, there's waves in there where he tanks 5+ aboms or all 6 Fel Stalkers (the mana draining ones!) He does get a bit reckless at times, but genuinely does well. Although anytime he says "watch this," just do yourself a favor and hearth out....lol but yeah, paladins are OP for trash and my guild is spoiled as hell from them. If you play one and can't basically tank an entire raid instance there's something wrong with you.

2ndNin
07-14-2008, 01:54 AM
Same applies in BT so far, all trash is zergable by a paladin tank.

Aaesop
07-26-2008, 03:51 PM
It really does boil down to what sort of mitigation you're rocking. Granted even with what Dreador said about me grabbing a whole slew of mobs, alot of times warriors or druids are pulling an abom off by taunting to ease the intake I'm getting.
However there are situations where I'm eating tons of them at once. The vast amounts of hits you eat kill the minifear the aboms put on you. High mitigation also helps heaps.
Making sure all the mobs are in your frontal area is also an important factor in how much your able to handle. If your mindful of where your facing in comparison to the mobs it helps an emense deal (dont get caught with mobs behind you!)

LoL i wont lie about the "watch this" part though. I previously bubbled myself and let them run by as i was winding up holy wrath, just before it goes off I right click the divine shield buff and watch ALL the mobs come pouring in on me lol.

But to be to the point it really does boil down to how much your Paladin can eat without the healers becoming overwhelmed. Although I do like the healers on the edge of their seats :) lol

Aaesop
07-26-2008, 03:51 PM
Aaesop is our prot pally. Even with all my expertise I sometimes have trouble pulling trash off him without taunt. The kid stays alive too, he stacks the shit out of block value and block rating, there's waves in there where he tanks 5+ aboms or all 6 Fel Stalkers (the mana draining ones!) He does get a bit reckless at times, but genuinely does well. Although anytime he says "watch this," just do yourself a favor and hearth out....lol but yeah, paladins are OP for trash and my guild is spoiled as hell from them. If you play one and can't basically tank an entire raid instance there's something wrong with you.
<3 lol

2ndNin
07-28-2008, 01:11 AM
When tanking 5+ aboms the Fel hunters don't drain mana, they simply cream off a little from the top :P.

tehgreen
07-30-2008, 08:38 AM
i've found, like most i'd say, that tanking abombs isn't hard, its the intial burst.

2 abombs, i afk and let the pally and druid handle it.

4 abombs, hunters grab 2, pally and druid handle the rest.

6 abombs, hunters grab 2, i grab one or 2, druid and pally grab the rest, only time it gets hairy is when the hunters pick the same mobs the tanks do, the cc on the necros/banshees is slow or the shamen forgot to drop grounding.

if the healers no that keira, our pally, is going to take dmg they ready for it and all is fine, its also gotten loads easier with the extra bits of t6.

Oneiroi
08-05-2008, 05:36 AM
I think the best would be to stack Stamina/Armor.

As far as my expirience goes with the Trash in MH i never died except when i was stunned.

So what reduces the incoming dmg while stunned?
Armor (and to a lesser degree defense through a higher miss rate).

While Avoidence is great to avoid stunlocks Armor helps to survive them when they happen.

At least i think it helps to put on the Kara ring and the one with Armor from the Tokens, together they give about 900 Armor which is quiet a nice bonus. I didn't realy miss block value at the Trash, with too much block value you would just go oom at the easyer waves ...