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Superspy23
05-12-2008, 02:03 PM
I play a fury DPS warrior and have been expecting to move to the PVE arms spec soon (When I get the gear to support it). I also have a hunter alt and the typical steady shot macro made me wonder if a similar macro was possible for slam. The hunter macro specifically makes sure that steady shot is queued right after auto shot has gone off and wont be queued again till after the next auto shot. I always saw mention of using quartz swing timer to time your slams but wouldn't it be possible to manage with the same type of cast sequence macro that a hunter uses? Is there some prohibitive mechanic that has been keeping such a macro from working? The mechanics are similar enough that I thought it would be worth asking.

Hunter macro:
#showtooltip Steady Shot
/castrandom [target=pettarget,exists] Kill Command
/castsequence reset=2/target !Auto Shot, Steady Shot
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear();

Warrior macro?
#showtooltip Slam
/castsequence reset=2/target !Auto Attack, Slam
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear();

Also what specifically would the reset be? Should it be the cast time of Slam?

Kazeyonoma
05-12-2008, 02:06 PM
I've never seen a macro us !Auto Attack,

If this is true, then this is the way to go and quartz becomes obsolete, but does steady shot reset your shot timer? and that macro you showed, that's proven to work that it won't fire steadyshot until you autoshot?

Superspy23
05-12-2008, 02:22 PM
Yes the hunter macro definitely works as I mentioned. I was figuring that it had never come up before because it was considered impossible due to some mechanic.

As to the similarities between Slam and Steady Shot they both have cast timers and will interfere with auto attacks. However Steady doesn't reset the swing timer the way Slam does. In spite of this all hunter theory has persisted that it should be places directly after the auto attack providing for instant attacks to be used in the gap between the Steady Shot completion and the next auto shot. That sounds an awful lot like the attack rotation for the 2H Slam theory.

Superspy23
05-12-2008, 02:31 PM
Additionally Auto Shot has a hidden 0.5 second cast timer and Auto Attack does not. I'm not sure that will mater however.

Kazeyonoma
05-12-2008, 02:34 PM
i think the resetting of the timer might cause the macro not to work.

Superspy23
05-12-2008, 02:41 PM
Has anyone actually tried this? I would much rather watch everything going on in the raid without having to watch Quartz.

Nuberino
05-12-2008, 03:55 PM
if that worked, Arms PVE would seem to be a lot more viable... having to watch Quartz kind of turns me off to especially if a fight is involving anything more than just standing there.

Superspy23
05-12-2008, 04:59 PM
Can someone with a Blood Frenzy/MS/Slam spec try the macro out and give some results? Try running it with Quartz to see if it is preforming as expected or if its causing any hangups.

Hell, if I could contribute a more surefire way of keeping a proper slam rotation I would feel pretty damned good. I'm wondering why such an option is unknown with the prevalence of the hunter version and how oft repeated it is in amongst that community.

uruloki
05-13-2008, 07:40 AM
so - how exactly would this work? i just press the macro at any time and it tosses off the slam after the next swing?

Superspy23
05-13-2008, 02:19 PM
The idea is that you spam it and hit your other cooldowns while this one is waiting to go back through the cycle. Thats how the hunters do it anyway.

I was trying this last night (untalented) and I think that the game thinks very differently about auto shot and your melee swing. I'm thinking that the hidden cast timer in auto shoot may put it into some ohter category. It seems like it was just doing Slam after Slam ignoring that it was supposed to wait till after the auto attack. I'm thinking that "!Auto Attack" is not the correct phrase. I see that WWS calls our white attack "Swing" and the name for the hunters white attack is actually "Auto Shot."

I'll try it again tonight to see if replacing "!Auto Attack" with "!Swing" does the trick.

Superspy23
05-14-2008, 11:05 AM
OK so using "!Swing" doesn't have any effect either. It really seems like Swing and Auto Shot should be considered the same by way of usability in a macro. Both are the triggered result of a /startattack command and both are subject to weapon speed. Considering the similarities between the hunter shot rotation mechanics and the arms warrior skill rotation and mechanics it would be advantageous if whats true in one situation would be true in another. Apparently Blizzard doesn't agree or had a huge oversight while coding. I don't understand the logic in making them different.

I want my white attack to be controllable through a cast sequence macro the same as the hunter white attack can be.

If any macro guru's have any more options that may work I'm very interested.

Poolstick
05-14-2008, 11:53 AM
I was thinking the same thing (alt hunter here) and I'm not really sure why it doesn't work, it seems like it should. Maybe just !Attack ?

And how are you folding in WW/MS/GCD's with that macro? Wouldn't you have to include those somehow?

Superspy23
05-14-2008, 04:06 PM
!Attack doesn't work either. The command /attack simply toggles on the attack function but is not the specific event.

In the same way the hunter macro doesn't include the instant attacks Arcane Shot or Multi Shot this one will also not include the instants used in the rotation. The varied cool downs of those skills will cause a sequenced macro to hang on a skill that is on cool down and make you unable to advance to the next part of the sequence till after it's gone off. That would cause some major losses in DPS. The instants will have to be managed separately.

The only intent of this macro is to remove the dependence on watching your swing timer to maintain the desired rotation and to prevent white attack push back from using Slam a fraction of a second too soon. There is no intent to make a one macro no brainer button.

Does anyone know how /stopmacro works and if it could be used at all to make this sequence work? (that's assuming that the macro even recognises the Swing) I'm thinking that an entirely different approach may be needed than sequencing Slam to follow a commanded Swing event. I don't know where to start though.

Other options have to exist. I don't believe that the design should hinge on a 3rd party interface add on. If I have to I will but I'll continue to explore these hoped for other options till then. I think I'll even put in a ticket about it not working as I had expected. I've become fairly determined.

uruloki
05-19-2008, 07:00 AM
one thing is certain... it will make people with laggy conections very happy to be able to actually use a slam build. as it is im losing too much dps to taking too long to cast the slam.

shiz98
05-19-2008, 06:50 PM
At one point I tried working out a macro similar to what you're trying here, without any positive results. If I recall correctly, something about the nature of Auto Attack VS Auto Shot was causing the macro not to work the same across the two classes.

In any case, people with lag or whatnot will probably be better of using Quartz and manually timing. Consider that even with a macro-spam thing like the one used in a Steady Shot rotation, you're still going to lose DPS to network latency, even if you can nail a Slam exactly after an autoswing on the client-side. Using Quartz, however, and timing your swings with the information if gives you, you can actually cast Slam within 0.1 seconds (depending on skill, of course) of a white hit on the server side. The preemptive casting is something a macro cannot do.

Spaceknight
05-19-2008, 10:06 PM
Like staring at a bar wasn't hard enough. If you get this to work >_> I won't be suprised to see alot more MS PVE specced warriors rising up again.

Gatorface
05-23-2008, 08:18 AM
Try /cast Attack. Maybe that will work.

WoW -> Community -> Macro Guide, Part 1 (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/basics/macroguide-one.html)

was perusing this in hope of possibly finding the answer your looking for.

Edit: World of Warcraft 2.0: Macros : BorkWeb (http://borkweb.com/story/world-of-warcraft-20-macros) old website but some good info regarding macros.

Kronar
05-29-2008, 02:46 AM
A friend of mine tried various syntax "test" to get such a macro to work. Problem in here is: Auto Shot seems to be a cast und can trigger it like:

/cast Auto Shot

Our normal swing or lets say: autoattack is triggered like this:

/startattack or simply /attack

And thats the problem: You can't get /attack get to work in a CASTsequence... sadly.

Maybe there is a script around for something like this?

At this moment i'dont actually know if /cast attack would work, because the trigger is: /startattack || /attack

Blizz that isn't nice... :(

Superspy23
05-30-2008, 11:27 AM
I tried a lot of the same syntax experiments with similar results and findings. One thing I also tried was using "Swing" as in /cast Swing because thats what the combat log calls the melee white attack. Same results either way. There is no way currently for the white attack to be cast as a specific event as far as I can tell. I'm thinking that my last ditch effort will be to put in a GM ticket and make them tell me "working as intended" even though that isn't always a valid answer.

Kronar
06-04-2008, 02:49 AM
It's a little bit unfair, i mean: Why is auto shot (hunters main dps "cast") triggered as cast?

So Blizz: Change /cast auto shot to /startautoshot or give us /cast swing|attack - whatever ;)

Why I know that this will never happen? o.O

Kazeyonoma
06-04-2008, 09:56 AM
to keep MS PvE warriors on their toes. ;D

shiz98
06-04-2008, 10:09 AM
It's a little bit unfair, i mean: Why is auto shot (hunters main dps "cast") triggered as cast?
My theory? Huntards. There must be a higher ratio of unskilled:skilled hunters than unskilled:skilled arms warriors. Hence the need assist them with DPS.

I don't think I'd play Arms if it just required me to spam one button...

Corbusier
06-04-2008, 10:17 AM
My theory? Huntards. There must be a higher ratio of unskilled:skilled hunters than unskilled:skilled arms warriors. Hence the need assist them with DPS.

I don't think I'd play Arms if it just required me to spam one button...
Yes, but now we have a chicken & egg type question. Which came first? Mindless one-button mechanics or lazy, mouth-breathing retards?

Stregga
06-12-2008, 05:59 PM
This seems to work I have to try it out on a mob that dosent die in 4 hits though.

#showtooltip Slam
/castsequence reset=3.6 Slam(Rank 6), Mortal Strike(Rank 6)
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()

if it does work It would be good to find out why though.

(I suspect it does normal castsequence and if dosent have rage for slam or MS it resets and starts over after the listed time)
if you try it make sure the reset= weapon swing speed after haste

Stregga
06-12-2008, 06:30 PM
Just thinking out loud here but it seems like with this if you replaced MS with something you cant do, like Devistate, you could keep perfect swing time or close to it , you just have to weave in your ms and WW as you have rage.

Ill test it and see if that works

Thundershoof
06-13-2008, 05:31 PM
I'd really like to have a macro that functions like the 1:1 auto/steady macro works for hunters.

I'm going link this thread to the Wow UI & Macros forum to see what the genuises over there have to say about the Idea. (Unlike the General and class forums, this one tends to be rather helpful most of the time. :))

Edit - Here's a link to the thread: WoW Forums -> [macro] Steady shot has !auto shot; Slam has? (http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=7116404330&postId=71156953076&sid=1#0)

Superspy23
06-14-2008, 11:11 AM
These are the specifics that were posted by Alestane in the thread that Thundarshoof created on the wow ui & macro forum.

Thanks Thundarshoof for continuing the investigation.


What it boils down to: Auto Shot has a very small cast time associated with it, to prevent it from being used while you're moving. Melee attacks are effectively instant cast, as you can strafe alongside your target and continue swinging while you do.

Because of this, even though Auto Shot never shows you a cast bar, it's still sending your client UNIT_SPELLCAST_SENT and UNIT_SPELLCAST_SUCCEEDED events, with Auto Shot as the name of the spell, so your client can determine whether or not moving or other actions interrupt Auto Shot. These are the events that advance /castsequence macros.

Because the client isn't doing parallel interrupt checking (I'm pretty sure the server is also checking for it at the same time, on shots, but the client does too to prevent latency from being as much of an issue) on auto-attacks, there's no need for parallel events. Without those events, there's nothing for the castsequence manager to respond to. In fact, I'm pretty sure Slouken said in a thread several months ago, regarding the patch that broke /castsequence, that the designers and devs have NO intention of making Attack play nicely with /cast and /castsequence.

You're welcome to suggest anything you think will improve the game for a significant number of players; just be aware that this is not a new issue and it's entirely possible that it's still under discussion. The devs made it clear to the community that they're aware of how it works, and that not everyone is satisfied with how it works (one way or another), and have neither posted that they're happy with its current state nor that they have concrete plans to change it.

So its just not possible unless they change the design.