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Ciderhelm
04-28-2008, 12:59 AM
TankSpot Podcast #10
Raid Tanking
Patrick O'Callahan "Ciderhelm" and Joshua Allen "Lore"
29:38


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http://media.libsyn.com/media/ciderhelm/Main_Tanking.mp3

Podcast Information
This podcast covers the social aspects important to functioning within raiding guilds. It is an overview of the most common views on tank status, organization, and rank, as well as expectations for new tanks. This podcast will be most useful for unguilded or new tanks who are looking at joining a raiding guild.

When available, Donors (http://www.tankspot.com/forums/general-discussion/36281-tankspot-donation-information.html) will see both the outlines and podcasts in advance of their post date.


Pre-Recording Outline
The following is a rough bullet point created prior to recording. Additions were made during recording that are not represented in this.

News
-PVP Author

Questions

Required of Main Tank
-Attendance
-Consistency, ability to be at same encounters as often as possible
-Good Play
--Mechanics & Theory just as important as pressing buttons
-Reliability
-Post well in advance of absences

Be prepared
-Guilds may provide
-Ironshields
-Flask

Know strategies
-Read up, watch

Attitude
-Be willing to sit out
--Person has been around longer
--Sometimes other tanks need loot/experience
--Sometimes fights need less tanks (Gorefiend)
--Don't take it personally
-Positive Attitude
--Goes for any raider
-Skill

Understand that
-Hard to just try out a tank
--5mans/10mans best way to prove yourself
--Expect to be in for easy encounters or given easy tasks/swapped out for more difficult fights
-So many other factors (attendance, etc)
-Don't expect to be invited to raids every night

2-3 classes adds a lot of room for flexibility
-paladins put into offtanking role
-Druids DPS

If it clearly doesn't work for you
-Move on to another guild
-Don't start unnecessary drama



References
MainTankadin: The Pscyhology of a Tank (http://www.failsafedesign.com/maintankadin/viewtopic.php?t=8493)
Hold the Line (Warrior Reference Guide, 2nd Edition) (http://www.tankspot.com/forums/theory-articles/1055-hold-line-warrior-reference-guide-2nd-edition.html)


Corrections & Clarifications
Got any?


Did you find this subject utterly boring? Please, suggest topics and discussions, and ask questions for us to include in our upcoming podcasts. :)

Leytur
04-28-2008, 03:40 AM
I am GL and we're in 10 man content so I don't need to worry about losing my job too much. That said, I think it's important for every tank to have a solid DPS set. Even in 10 mans there's usually 1 DPS'er who's undergeared or undertrained and puts out subpar DPS. If the tank can switch to DPS gear and show they can out DPS that lame-o then they're spot on a raid roster can be kept even when they aren't tanking. The more competitive the guild (and bigger) the harder this will be though.

Galushi
04-28-2008, 03:45 AM
Hey, prot warriors are good for dps on bosses too! lol

(in regards to the druid do dps while not tanking)

Tobius
04-28-2008, 05:39 AM
Another great podcast, and thanks for answering my question on shield block / crushings.
I have made a seperate topic as suggested if anyone would like to assist me in more detail.

Gorrack
04-28-2008, 08:09 AM
@crushings, If you are using the newest version of Bongo's your crushing blow icon will have a green background when that buff is active. I notice that sometimes my charges are chewed up before I can reapply it.

The bongos however is a really nice way to keep track of what buffs you have up or not.

Edgar
04-28-2008, 08:13 AM
I liked this podcast the best so far.

Thanks guys :)

Esillymidget
04-28-2008, 09:22 AM
Damn...Illidan doesn't crush? I figured that must be why there's so much block rating on T6, so you could negate the crushes while still being able to block shear with SB. Well, atleast I can conserve some dkp now :-).

Lore
04-28-2008, 12:18 PM
Well, a block is still better than a normal hit, so it's not completely useless.

Joeker
04-29-2008, 03:53 AM
Great podcast Cider enjoyed it a lot

Fayre
04-29-2008, 06:00 AM
Cheers for another great podcast guys :)

Leytur
04-29-2008, 12:52 PM
BTW, on the topic of a DPS set. . . you mention "if you don't have a Devastate set".

Could you explain what that is? My DPS set is basically as good of a fury set as I can get. Is that what you mean by a "devastate set"? Do you say that in order to separate it from a DPS set that may be based on SBV?

Kazeyonoma
04-29-2008, 01:36 PM
yes, for the most part, a good devastate set, is a good fury set. have a good hit rating, good ap, good crit. Basically a "Dual Wield" set.

Groundchuck
04-29-2008, 05:06 PM
Very nice podcast guys. Always good to hear some of these things again even if they're not new.

Off-topic:
Marmots can't really be considered "woodland creatures" their habitat is Alpine and sub-alpine which are generally considered above tree line. :)

Animal Planet :: Mammal Guide -- Habitat -- Alpine (http://animal.discovery.com/guides/mammals/habitat/alpine/hrymarmot.html)

Papachopchop
01-02-2009, 09:29 AM
Toward the last part of this podcast you asking why I like being a tank....

There are actually several things that contributed and my reasons why I stuck with it have changed over the course of my game play....

First of all, I play a protection paladin level 80 defense capped paladin. I've played this game for a few years. However my first year and a half I never did instances because I didn't really have online friends to play with. So my initial reason to play a tank was I knew they had a lot of hit points and didn't die easy. Secondly through playing my druid (my first character ever made) I was totally spoiled from the ability to cast a heal after combat instead of sitting and eating so I needed something that could do both... Thus I became a Paladin... Looking at the talents I quickly realized that Protection would serve me the best because the only time I feel like through my computer across the room is when I die 200 times on the same type of mob or in the same place.

Now, Let's fast forward and make a long story short...

Any of the lower level instances seemed WAY easy for a tank, keep everything beating on you and let the group do the rest... seemed like a pretty no brainer and I didn't have to think much.... Besides... as the tank, no one can start the fight until you and in most of the lower level places, again, didn't have to worry about dying much... So I enjoyed this level of play because I'm lazy and tanks were not expected to do any thing but attack the mob first and hold the aggro....

I only began TRUELY tanking often when I was around level 75+ (because I just like to see the 3d environments inside the game) which was an uncomfortable eye awakener to many of the groups I was in... (Yes unfortunately I gave myself a very short but very bad reputation) I began tanking instances the same way I played solo... Healed myself when I was low and (oh god) even used holy shield when in trouble not realizing it was a death sentence to your group in an instance group when you aggro drop.

Luckily, I found a guild through a real life friend and because of they had voice chat (vent) they knew I was not a bad person just ignorant of what to do. So, Through the course of many levels, repair bills, and finally realizing that if I die the group dies... I began to realize that there was a weight on my shoulders to not only know what I was doing, but be good at it.

I used web sites for information and still use them for boss tactics, and recently discovered tankspot.com which provided videos which allowed me to research the fights in such a way that I could appear like I had experience with the fight even if it was my first time. (which in high end places and raids I always admitted it if it was my first fight, because yuour group will give you any pointers they can just so you don't die and keep taking hits)

Now I have recently began fighting in 10 and 25 man raids which I never really go to do in the old content because I turned level 70 a week before the expansion...

I joined a new guild and they wanted to bring me along a 25 man in naxx to defeat heigen the unclean... Through your videos (very helpful) I dropped my jaw in amazement when I realized that tank was used not only to hold aggro but had an actual job to do. Attack him, then move here, then move here... etc. The main main had the dance down very well so I followed him during phrase 2 and since I was a paladin I mainly served to cleanse the HP debuff he puts on all melee, since the healers were to far away and concentrate on healing better that way.

Since then I have grown into a great tank. I have learn that when you are a tank, knowledge IS power and since I just a nice guy when I meet other nice players I have a very large friends list of people I have met through this time... It almost seems like once they found a tank that was easy to get along with and we knowledge, geared, AND laid back (willing to help with or sit out) to do anything they stuck to me like glue...

A couple of healers were just over joyed and almost SHOCKED :eek: when they finally asked, "You got a shield that proc on me when I heal you or something?" and I said, "no, just watching your back... if I watch you and you cover me with heals only blizz can take us down together!"

Guess they never met a tank that wasn't so selfish to realize if you can watch you healer back and help protect them from dmg from mobs... especially when they come from several directions at once... I'll even through my lay on hands on healers instead of me to avoid, double healing myself (in case they are self sacrifice types too) and I also run with the gylphs that give 20% more mana to both them AND me.... So I instantly heal them, and give me another 2000 mana to start ripping into the critter with.

Now it is not uncommon for me to log in and before I can even check to see who is online with my friends, check guild, or even open my backpack I have 5 private messages flying across my screen that say anything from "Hey, how are you doing?" to "Heroic VH is the daily, let's rock this joint!"


:D Another thing about protection paladins... people say we are not good in PvP... I have to agree only in the area of arena fighting... with the addition of mass combat in the battlegrounds (not only AV) I am able to annoy enough players and casters to distract about 3-7 players ganging up on me to kill me off as I block, parry, dodge, bubble, blow my defense trinkets, lay on hands and do it again... Leading them unknowingly away from the initial starting point of the fight... distracting them from the mass of DPS that just run behind them going for the objectives! yea, they kill me, but the whole time they are blasting away at me they weren't protecting the objective and THAT, my friends, is why I laught when I fight against 5 alliance players at once and will resurrect, rebuff, and charge in again doing the same thing. :D


:) And lastly, the reason I like playing a tank... Remember those annoying quests while you leveled that said kill 8-15 of something.... You DPS types will NEVER know the good time I have getting on my mount and rounding all 8 together and fighting all 8 at once, JUST so it is a challenge and I may have to actually hit my lay on hands. :)