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View Full Version : How to say no to your guildies as a tank - My rant



ceffo
04-27-2008, 09:41 PM
I couldnt find a thread about this on here and am sorry if this is a repost.

Basically i spend 5 hours a day 8 on weekends running heroics to get myself geared for end game content. So now i pretty much in mix of kara/boj 2.4 gear and have outgeared kara/gruuls. EH gear 17k hp 17.3 armor etc

The guild isnt a hardcore raiding guild and have maybe 30 people online at any one time. 10 of them being geared or progressions minded.

Question here is everytime i log in i get PST to run heroics/normal instances/kill some elite for a group quest.

We have 4 tanks in guild and the rest of the guild seem to pst me when im on. I would tell em im busy and why they cant pst the other 3 tanks or i have would like to play my alt etc I have 3 70s

Thats where the Whinging starts saying i dont help em get geared etc to the GM not a helpful member of the guild. Mind u i pugged all my gruops for my blue gear for entry to kara and have neaver of rearly asked for help.

So recently I POSTED in Guild chat in CAPS that i was retiring my tank until we started 25 mans ssc/mh etc

As u can guess there is a fair bit of tension towards me in the guild as they started wiping in kara being the MT

This isnt a look at me in the best post. But im sure one most MT of guilds go through and i would like an opinion.

Any suggestions? on turning down people in a polite manner?

Alent
04-27-2008, 09:50 PM
SSC/MH.

MH.

LOL

Sorry, that just struck me funny.

On a more serious note, just tell them, you're getting burned out, you've put all this work into improving your character and that you're ready for the next level, and be honest about it. Try not to be "Brutally honest", because often people don't respond well to that, but maintain an air of tact and work it out with them. Work with the other tanks to improve their gear, tps, etc.

Worse comes to worse, you have to move on. Sometimes you outgrow your guildies. It hurts and is fairly disappointing when it happens, but it happens.

ceffo
04-27-2008, 10:23 PM
SSC/MH.

MH.

LOL

Sorry, that just struck me funny.


Sorry im just going by whats posted on some forums what min requirements are for SSC etc i know not MH more of an example :P




Worse comes to worse, you have to move on. Sometimes you outgrow your guildies. It hurts and is fairly disappointing when it happens, but it happens.

I think im soft and just cant do it.. hence why im sticking through it and hope for the best. :S

Alent
04-27-2008, 10:26 PM
There's something to be said for sticking it out... Just make sure that you don't destroy your peace of mind in the process. It's a game, after all.

lorelye
04-28-2008, 04:32 AM
How long have you been doing Karazan for them? How long has this guild existed? Are you there because they're good friends? Is that 17k HP buffed or unbuffed?

Sounds to me like you might be a hardcore player in a casual guild. Look closely at your guild - are they gearing up players who leave, over & over? Does your guild leader have a real plan for taking you into 25man content? Is the plan realistic?

Have you thought about what's going to happen to you if/when they do start Gruul? Most of us have been in a guild like that, yes, and what happened to us was that killing Gruul turned into night after night of frustrating wipes. Without a consistent core group of at least 20... you'll end up having different players attend each night, under-geared & without much raid experience, and it's just not going to be very fun training a different group each night. Do you really want to spend the next 6 months working up to killing Void Reaver?

My personal opinion is that a guild leader should always support free choice. I wouldn't stay in a guild that tried to pressure me in this way. Even in a guild with required attendance, the recruits go voluntarily. When you're being pressured to do something you don't want, something's gone very wrong in your guild.

brain9h
04-28-2008, 08:17 AM
Just say no. If you try to be apologetic about it you will sound as their employee.

Just say "No, thanks, I wanna do X now", and people will respect you more.

ceffo
04-28-2008, 11:25 AM
How long have you been doing Karazan for them? How long has this guild existed? Are you there because they're good friends? Is that 17k HP buffed or unbuffed?

- Ive been doing kara with these guys for over 4 months. i usually let one of the lesser geared tanks MT and learn the pulls.
- guilds been around a year now
- I think im here bc we leveld together and became good friends
- 16900 unbuffed



Sounds to me like you might be a hardcore player in a casual guild. Look closely at your guild - are they gearing up players who leave, over & over? Does your guild leader have a real plan for taking you into 25man content? Is the plan realistic?

We have had 2 mages an a lock recently come in and gear up on t4 gloves/head then leave around 5 weeks later to a better raiding guild. Kinda pissed us off the regulars. So yes we gearing up players who leave.

Out GM is trying hard i guess but she doesnt really have the enthuisam or put up with the polotics.. Once told a few people to F*** off for not showing up on time :eek:. And so now they gone.


yeah we have tried gruuls. As u said we did wipe alot. but i put this down to learning teh fight. but it was only 2 times.. We havent had a consistent bunch of players since. Most have left.. Some citing "helping mates guild" reasons. 1/2 the riad was/is undergeared for gruuls.


good post btw.. good to hear from people who have been there.

i have been accepted into one of the higher raiding guilds but there was so much bitching/e-pen for slots in raids and no comradery that i said no thanks.

Nuberino
04-28-2008, 01:40 PM
My guild was in this rut starting in T5, we found that we had 10-15 progression minded folks and about 50 very casual members... we got stuck in the gruul/mags/lurker rut where we never had the "perfect" raid (or shall we say a full roster of geared dps) to push progression bosses (just can't down bosses if you are carrying 5-10 people through the instance). So progression slowed and we started becoming a stepping stone guild where we would gear someone up through T4 and they would then join another guild.

We found the way to get around it though... we first went on a massive recruiting spree... got a couple guilds that were basically through T4 content to join up and now we have about 40 progression minded toons. So each 25 man is now filled with people that are ready and wanting to progress vs carrying half the raid through an instance.

If I were in your shoes I would look for other guilds in your position and start doing joint raids with them, and only bring your progression minded folks. Work at building a solid raid base of like minded folks so that you can keep seeing new content while not abandoing your friends.

The reality of this game is there are a number of types of people. Some will never progress and some will never have the desire to progress. If you want to progress you just can't plan your future around them, they can still be your guildmates and friends but realize they won't help you get to your next progression goal. Start focusing your efforts of building that 10-25 man team that is hungry to see new content and willing to put in the effort in their class and gear to get you there.

Thist
04-28-2008, 02:45 PM
Out GM is trying hard i guess but she doesnt really have the enthuisam or put up with the polotics.. Once told a few people to F*** off for not showing up on time . And so now they gone.

This could have been me once - I put so much work into things and one day I just lost it when 1/3 of my well-planned Gruul guild run said they were going to Kara instead because they didn't want to pay big repair bills. I think I was right to gquit right there instead of continuing to try make raiders out of very casual players that would immediately close ranks and offer excuses and defenses for anyone that I called out for anything.

lorelye
04-29-2008, 02:57 AM
I'll copy part of a post I made recently. If you go guild shopping, you might find it helpful. Especially watch out for the Tyrant guild. I agree with Nub though, guild merge might be a good plan for you all.


Copy :: Types of guilds, Know what you're getting:

1. The Casual Guild :: The Casual guild has no required attendance. Often run by "loot council" they will key players for Karazan forever, gear them up, and then optimistically hope that someday they'll be able to raid 25mans. Sadly, most of their members will wait a couple of weeks for enough attendance for a raid, they'll wipe on Gruul a few times and gquit, taking their Kara key and new gear with them. The most patient members of this guild will be stuck never getting loot, watching people leave, and never getting to raid. Eventually they quit too & then the GL will transfer off the server.

2. The Hardcore Guild :: Hardcore generally requires 4-5 nights/week of attendance. You are judged purely by your performance. If you are not in the top half of the DPS, don't expect any help or any raid invites. Nobody will be online unless it's time to raid, and since you're not allowed to speak in vent either, you will not develop many long-term friendships here. These are usually DKP system, so don't expect any loot in your first two months. By the time they finally start to accept you, players will start to burn out on the next milestone fight, Vashj or Illidan for example, and the guild will all transfer off server.

3. The Tyrant Guild :: These guilds are often started by players who were booted from all previous guilds. The GL thinks he can do everything better. He thinks you're a moron, and has no qualms about letting you know it. The Tyrant Guild can be either casual or hardcore, but one thing's certain - it won't be fun.

If this GL is also totally incompetent, you can expect the players with better gear but lower performance, to be invited to every raid. The GL isn't actually watching webstats or attendance. He doesn't care if you start on time, because he's going to keep you there for 7 hours anyway, until he gets what he wants (boss dead) or leaves raid in a screaming hissy fit. He'll make you respec to something absurd, then complain about your performance. If he hasn't completely demoralized you by the end of the night, you can be sure one of his 2 buddies will finish the job.

4. The Carebear Guild :: Everyone in this guild seems pretty good. They're nice & helped you level. They're chatty and you think they're your friends. Sadly, they tend to be a little disorganized and never actually kill any bosses. When you try to offer advice or help work toward progression, they'll turn on you and tell you to stop QQ. They don't take criticism well. Surprise.

5. The Almost Guild :: Looks like they do everything right, but they have problems with attendance, and eventually all progress grinds to a halt. These are usually on low population servers, or have undefined organizational problems that are discouraging their members. They'll cancel half the raids, then be surprised when people stop showing up altogether. Heartbreaking.

lorelye
04-29-2008, 03:09 AM
Oh PS - Your gear might be good enough to get through all the T5 content as-is. Can't really tell without seeing all your stats, but it might be worth a post in the tankish part of the forums, to find out.

ceffo
04-29-2008, 07:00 AM
Guys thanks for the tips. I will raise this with our GL.

Might start seeking out smaller guild to bring into our own and start raiding 25man content

Hypatia
04-29-2008, 07:26 AM
That's a pretty depressing ontology of guilds there. :) Do you not believe there are any good guilds?

Preliator
04-29-2008, 09:59 AM
I try and help out guild members from time to time but sometimes I don't feel like helping anyone and I just want to relax and level an alt or not worry about anybody else's problems. Fortunately enough though most of my guildies seem to have no problem with this as I've never gotten a complaint about how I'm not helping them gear up.

In my eyes, they should be working to gear themselves up and if I offer to help them they should be grateful, but they shouldn't expect it all the time. I guess since I don't expect other people's help I think that they shouldn't expect mine. Though I guess never having to look for a tank makes it a bit easier :rolleyes:


Also regarding joint guild raids - I would have to agree with Nuberino. Our guild currently is running Gruul's and Mag with another guild that has the other half of progression minded players that we lack. Things have worked wonderfully so far and we'll be starting SSC soon.

lorelye
04-30-2008, 01:50 AM
Hi Hypatia,

You are correct. I think that 75% of guilds are run by Mr Tyrant. It's quite possible I'm wrong and just going by my history and the history of the members I recruited to my guild. The one time I transferred servers, I did so without realizing how to guild shop very well. I fell for the line "I only yell in vent occasionally." I didn't realize at the time, that the translation of occasionally means once an hour, and that I was joining a guild that didn't suit my personality at all.

But then I suppose that "guild shopping" actually could be another thread altogether. If there isn't one, perhaps there should be; A dictionary, so to speak, to help people translate those recruitment posts. Or a list of questions to ask the person who's recruiting you.

:)

madocks
04-30-2008, 12:42 PM
Sorry, busy

Thats all u need to do - if they moan to officers, fuck them. If your officer demands you spend your spare time helping others then leave.

I like to help by tanking where i can, but not all day every day

Rayne
05-02-2008, 10:32 AM
We struggled the summer after the expansion getting going in 25-man runs. Just couldn't get the attendance. Ultimately in the fall I got us into an alliance. We got Gruul dead and stalled. Took a few shots at Mag after the holidays and then went our separate ways.

These days we have more of a raiding team that is primarily (65-70%) our guild, and the remainder interested players from other guilds. Attendance is based upon prior attendance, not guild affiliation. We just moved to DKP three weeks ago. Mags and Gruul are done in a single night for lesser geared folks. We just got Leo last night, so 5/6 SSC and 2/4 TK (2 nights of wipes on Al'ar). Later this month we'll step into MH and get the easy bosses.

We're not hardcore, only raid 2x/week except when we do the T4s, so we don't progress as fast as we could, but in February we were 0/6 and 1/4 (retarded monkeys could kill VR pre-nerf if they could get to him). Most of us are happy with our progress, we'll be taking a look at MH soon and hopefully in June look seriously at Vashj. Even if we don't get her this expansion, or hit Sunwell, we made a lot of progress from where we were at Christmas, and are looking to be poised come the next expansion.