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Crimsonstorm
04-22-2008, 11:11 AM
http://wowhead.com/?talent=LA0czhbZcZbytoI0zzxst

This does about 4-5% more dps than the standard threat focused prot spec (12/5/44). Tanking-wise is fairly similar, you lose 1 pt in anticipation (or Imp Bloodrage if you choose), and 2 points in Shield Mastery (or Vitality, though that removes about half the dps gain).

This spec is a bit worse for tanking and a bit better for tanking (or grinding) as prot.

When to use it: When you need to tank and will need to hold aggro on a boss that is being focused (dpsed first) during a raid, but will also need to dps in the same raid. So probably not the main tank, but its good for a second tank who needs to be prot specced but will also do dps at some point.

For example, doing a BT night in which you will be dpsing on Gorefiend, Tanking Bloodboil, and DPSing Reliquary. Or a Hyjal night where you will tank on trash and DPS on bosses (though you might be able to do that as 17/44/0)

I'm pretty sure this outdpses 0/20/41, while also having a lot more tanking utility than that spec. Impale is much better dps for Prot than DW spec is, because a huge portion of your damage is specials and heroic strikes. (Almost 70% for me). At 35% buffed crit (w/feral), and 70% yellow damage, the two ranks in impale are worth as much as (.2*.35*.7) = 4.9% more crit! This far outweighs the loss in Cruelty, and Deep wounds contributes about 2-3% dps as well.

Overall, when dpsing, you give up a couple things that are ireelevant for +5% dps. When tanking your BV is a little lower and you just have to make sure you dont deep wounds a sheep, but the threat gains from deep wounds/impale counteract most of the threat lost from the cruelty and shield mastery loss.

bagelbite
04-22-2008, 12:10 PM
I think 4-5% more dps is really stretching it for most fights. The impale prot dps build is really only a tiny bit better than the typical 12/5/44 and close variants.

Removing deep wounds from the equation, adding impale but removing 3% crit nets you around 1% dps increase.

Deep wounds really depends. On fights where you can be stationary and just dps away, deep wounds will offer very little increase in dps. You're pretty likely to crit every 3 seconds, which refreshes deep wounds and prevents it from ticking any damage. On fights where there will be periods where you must stop attacking for whatever reason, the relative % damage increase from deep wounds will be higher because you're pretty much guaranteed youll get it to the tick for each time you stop attacking. My personal limited observations have been around 1% dps increase from deep wounds if I can attack the whole time. This will vary based on many factors though.

So you're probably looking at around 2-3% more dps from the impale build, for most fights.

5 points in dual wield spec is far superior to 2 points in impale. My calculator doesn't yet model unbridled wrath but I'm still confident the 20/41 build will easily outdps the impale build by a non trivial amount.

World of Warcraft Prot spec dps Calculator (http://rehfeld.us/wow/prot-dps.html)

loquatious
04-22-2008, 12:36 PM
I tried that spec and was undewhelmed. I also didnt like having to worry about the debuff being applied to mobs that should be crowd controlled.

not worth the 3%

Crimsonstorm
04-22-2008, 01:17 PM
Here is my WWS from our Archimonde kill last night, using this spec:

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (http://wowhead.com/?talent=LA0czhbZcZbytoI0zzxst)

(Melee loses a lot less dps on this fight than ranged, due to the nature of the fight. Its not the most accurate fight for judging one's dps, but it is accurate to the point of showing how much dps youre getting from various sources. I link it because its the only kill I have, dpsing in this spec, since i just started using it).

My overall damage in the kill: 400,954

90 white hits + 39 heroic strikes = 129 total autoattacks between the two weapons.
About 63 MH 66 OH (Oh in .1 sec faster).

39 of the MH attacks were heroic strikes, leaving 24 MH attacks. 66 OH attacks at half damage.

OH did 33/57 of the white damage, or 72.5k.

So my damage came from
72.5k OH white
53.6k MH white
101k MH heroic strike
174k specials

OH spec multiplies the damage of the OH by 1.25. (Goes from doing 50% of normal to 62.5%). That would be a gain of 18.1k, or an extra 4.5% of my total dps.


Commanding presence might normally be a dps gain but in this case I was with a dps warrior also who did BShout. UB Wrath is a very small dps gain, the rage gain from it is only somewhat more than you get from the single point in Anger Management. However, The 3/3 Imp Heroic Strike from this spec is a much more significant dps gain, this counteracts much of the lost dps from not having improved battle shout when youre not with a dps warrior.


Now 17/3/41:

-2 ranks of cruelty (not 3), is about -2% dps.

Deep wounds was 11.7k dps for me (2.9%).

Impale is equivalent to an amount of crit on specials equal to 20% of my crit rate. This was around 30% crit rate, on about 70% dmg from specials.

.2*.3*.70 = 4.2%.

So deep wounds + impale = +2.9% and +4.2%
Cruelty loss is -2%.
Sum is +5.1%.

So 0/20/41 was 4-5% gain vs 12/5/44.
17/3/41 is 4-5% gain vs 12/5/44. With more tanking utility (Imp Heroic, Deflection, Imp Tclap, and deep wounds and impale give threat when tanking but DW spec doesnt.

Crimsonstorm
04-22-2008, 01:34 PM
I really like that prot dps calculator :)


I put in my stats (and 46 extra rage/minute, for Anger Management), and then chose Impale and 3/3 Imp Heroic, and compared that to 5/5 DW spec. The DW spec was ahead by less than 1%. There wasnt anything for deep wounds, which would be worth almost 3% more, but I lose 2% crit so thats about a 2% loss. Overall, they seem to be within 1-2% of each other, at least. Its so close that I think 17/3/41 is definitely better than 0/20/41, being about even in dps and better utility.

17/3/41 does appear to be about 4%+ more dps than 12/3/41 for a loss of 1 in anticipation or bloodrage, and 2 shield mastery.