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Dudaclan
04-16-2008, 10:39 AM
Hey,
My guild is currently clearing Kara and I am going in as an Arms spec warrior. If you try to look at me in Armory you will more than likely see me in my tanking gear. (ZG last night)
The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Aman%27Thul&n=Dototheda)
My question is what gear should I be looking to get so I can maximize my DPS for Kara. ATM I am Axe spec because I have yet to find a Sword to upgrade to (More like haven't acquired a sword). Free feel to suggest a different talent point arrangement. Any other things you could suggest would be very helpful.

Indolentpyro
04-16-2008, 10:53 AM
Personally, I would go with a 33/28 (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/warrior/talents.html?1500500135201050022100005500005005212 03000000000000000000000000000) spec. though stick with axe spec till ya get a nice sword Despair for example, drops off of the R&J opera, if you are lucky enough to get them. Sword spec would be better for you than axe spec, since you are a human and would get the expertise bonus.
As for gear recommendations, i cant really make any since as you mentioned are in your tank gear.

I would also recommend picking up quartz (http://files.wowace.com/sw-q.html), if you dont have it. and using the white hit > slam > ms > white hit > slam > whirlwind rotation

Kavtor
04-16-2008, 10:55 AM
Looks like you're trying a hybrid PVP / PVE build. If you're serious about PVE damage drop the PVP talents, spec 33/28, and get a swing timer for imp. slam. Save up your badges for the new Axe.

Dudaclan
04-16-2008, 11:00 AM
Yeah, Hybrid PvP + PvE has just really been a pain. Whats the 33/28 spec? I have an idea but not 100% sure.

Indolentpyro
04-16-2008, 11:02 AM
I linked it in my post above (at least my version of it, there are a few variations)


here is the link again more visibly: WorldofWarcraft.com -> Info -> Classes -> Warrior -> Talent Calculator (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/warrior/talents.html?1500500135201050022100005500005005212 03000000000000000000000000000)

Dudaclan
04-16-2008, 11:09 AM
As soon as I posted I saw it :P

Brucimus
04-16-2008, 11:37 AM
I linked it in my post above (at least my version of it, there are a few variations)


here is the link again more visibly: WorldofWarcraft.com -> Info -> Classes -> Warrior -> Talent Calculator (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/warrior/talents.html?1500500135201050022100005500005005212 03000000000000000000000000000)



Why Improved Demoralizing Shout 5/5? I'm not questioning just wondering what is the usefulness?

Dudaclan
04-16-2008, 11:49 AM
My DPS set is showing now. Let me warn you it is not pretty. lol

Kavtor
04-16-2008, 12:07 PM
Why Improved Demoralizing Shout 5/5? I'm not questioning just wondering what is the usefulness?

I wouldn't worry about it in 10 mans, but in 25's, I mock my DPS warriors every time they show up with out it.

IDS not only means the MT doesn't have to worry about DS, but a warlock can put up Curse of Recklessness with out drastically increasing tank damage. 800 armour pen is going to do a lot more for your DPS than a change for a bit of extra rage, which you're only going to turn into a heroic strike.

Derrick
04-16-2008, 01:20 PM
interesting EJ thread on this topic just today. probably covers all your needs.

Warrior: Arms - Elitist Jerks (http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t24537-warrior_arms/)

Dudaclan
04-16-2008, 01:33 PM
That is a very nice post thank you. But their gear choices are a little lacking in the Pre-Kara range. My question was more toward what gear could I get to start Kara with significant DPS. After Kara the choices become clearer on what to grab IMO. I was looking for specific pieces I should go for to improve my PvE damage.

Brucimus
04-16-2008, 02:37 PM
I was looking for specific pieces I should go for to improve my PvE damage.

I would PVP for it ..The Gladiator Stuff is pretty damn good for the amount of time you play for it
I would have 75K Honor and 100 of Each BG Mark for saved for the next Arena Season The Merciless gear is close to Tier5

Blacksmithing and Engineering both have end game type recipes
Furious Gizmatic Goggles is the best Plate Head Piece until Tier 6
Lionheart Executioner is not surpassed until TK Twinblade of the Phoenix or Zul'Jin's Sword Blah blah of the Apocalypse


Also Make sure you are eggsalted with Cenarian and Aldor/Scryer Factions for their very important Head/Shoulder enchants

Indolentpyro
04-16-2008, 03:48 PM
Why Improved Demoralizing Shout 5/5? I'm not questioning just wondering what is the usefulness?
----(nvm just saw kavtor already answered this)----


On my short stint of arms as dps (i tank like 99.9% of the time) i didnt see the benefit of the infinitesimal rage gained form unbridled wrath (which seems to be a popular choice). It seems to me that Imp demo shout would be more helpful to your raid, as it allows your locks(assuming you have one) to use curse of recklessness for the extra armor debuff.

Cayleb
04-16-2008, 06:04 PM
Agreed on the UW vs. Demo Shout thing. But for me personally, it came down to my guild. We're typically very caster heavy, so warlocks for us tend to use Curse of Shadows/Elements before Recklesseness(and we very rarely have 3+ locks in a raid thus far). So for the time being, it was easier for me to just go 2/5 demo and 3/5 UW.

Ukyo
04-16-2008, 09:55 PM
Agreed on the UW vs. Demo Shout thing. But for me personally, it came down to my guild. We're typically very caster heavy, so warlocks for us tend to use Curse of Shadows/Elements before Recklesseness(and we very rarely have 3+ locks in a raid thus far). So for the time being, it was easier for me to just go 2/5 demo and 3/5 UW.

You should ask for it, when i'm pugging (most of the times lol) i usually end up asking a lock to throw a CoR, otherwise i'm wasting 5 points on a talent that relies on that. (or that's how i feel, in pvp is awesome though)

Cayleb
04-16-2008, 10:17 PM
I've tried and was basically told that because we have more people that benefit from the CoE/CoS debuffs that it made CoR "ineffective", told me to talent out of it if I wanted to since we wouldn't have CoR most of the time.

Ukyo
04-16-2008, 10:29 PM
then you should go with either booming voice or just keep it for pvp situations, when you're doing dailys and want to reduce downtime or something like that.

Cayleb
04-17-2008, 06:14 AM
You convinced me. =P I went 5/5 demo shout late last night. Primarily for PvP as I'm taking an extended break from raiding due to guild drama, but on the offchance that I find another guild that I fit in with, perhaps it'll make for a good first impression.

On a side note, I kind of miss your old sig picture, Ukyo. <3

Brucimus
04-17-2008, 11:21 AM
I decided to try a variant of this build for SSC tonight ...any comments on my build/gear? The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Kirin+Tor&n=BrucimusI) was goin to take the full 5 in Improved Demobilizing Shout but we only have one Lock Signed up.

shiz98
04-17-2008, 03:56 PM
My question was more toward what gear could I get to start Kara with significant DPS.
Ragesteel Gloves - Items - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=23520) - not only are they great DPS pieces in-and-of themselves, but the set bonus will get you that much-needed increase to hit.

Do the SMV quest and pick up Overlord's Helmet of Second Sight - Items - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=31105)

Natasha's Choker - Items - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=31695) is a great piece too.

From there, you might aim for a couple PvP items. The S1 pants are comparable (better, in some cases) to T4. PvP rings are excellent as well. If you have the badges, pick up Dory's Embrace.

Sorry if you have any of this stuff already - your armory has you in PvP gear.

Regarding blacksmithing spec - I would stay an Armorsmith. The S1 weapons are quite good, and relative to the chestpiece you get from Armorsmithing, it's an excellent combo.

shiz98
04-17-2008, 04:13 PM
I decided to try a variant of this build for SSC tonight ...any comments on my build/gear? The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Kirin+Tor&n=BrucimusI) was goin to take the full 5 in Improved Demobilizing Shout but we only have one Lock Signed up.
Hit rating! Your other stats are great, but your lack of hit rating is going to kill your DPS. Try swapping out for Ragesteel Shoulders - Items - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=33173). You'll lose 9 Crit Rating for the gain of 9 hit rating and 8 AP if you socket them with +4 STR + 4 Crit gems. With your current stats, hit/expertise is really going to ramp up your DPS.

I don't now what you do with your toon, so I can't help out too much with your spec, but I'll drop a few pointers.
Imp Heroic Strike with 1 point isn't doing much for you. Drop the point into Overpower for PvP goodness, maybe.
If you put points into Imp. TC, you'll be much more viable as an OT (probably a rare occasion, but still good to plan for).

IMO, Improved Disciplines isn't worth it. It's a minor damage increase, but the main beef I have with it is that shaving 7 minutes off the CD doesn't actually do all that much for you. If you're doing farm content, you'll get to use it once per boss attempt. If you're to the point where you're clearing through more than one boss in a half hour, it's really not making that much of a difference anyway. If you're learning new content, it's still only going to be up either every attempt (having to clear through Hyjal trash takes a while, for example), or up every once every two attempts. In the first case, it's rarely going to make a difference, and in the second case, you're going to want to save it for an attempt where it will really make a difference anyway, and the 7 minute CD reduction won't help.

Try putting the points into Imp. Intercept. Again, you get more PvP goodness, and you also get nice PvE gains (20s CD on a 3s ranged stun is really nice).

I wouldn't honestly take two points into Imp. Demo. If your tanks want it, they can have it easily by speccing into it themselves. You don't have to screw up your rotation for it. If they don't want it, well, then those points are wasted anyway.

Brucimus
04-18-2008, 12:09 PM
umm 96 Hit (6&#37;) isnt enough for an arms dps build?

Kavtor
04-18-2008, 12:21 PM
It is against L72 mobs, so it's fine for trash, and PVP.
You'll want 142 for bosses though.

Dudaclan
04-21-2008, 03:45 PM
This seems like it will be of much use. Lucky I got the DPS neck off of Midnight this past weekend in kara. I am really wanting Dory's Embrace. And BTW shiz98 my PvP set is my PvE set. :D Which explains why I was wanting to know what specific pieces should be swapped out with minimal time required.

Anglachel
04-22-2008, 07:49 AM
following up on this question, when is a good time to switch to PvE arms from fury? My raid is currently 3/4 in TK and we are attempting Kael... we also clear magtheridon every week, which means i have a good chance of getting the Glaive of the Pit (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=28774), which seems to be fairly decent... our melee group is Enh Shammie, Rogue, Rogue, Ret Pallie, and me.

my armory:

The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Feathermoon&n=Anglachel)

I'm usually in the top ten for damage, depending on the fight, but i feel i should be doing more for the raid...

Kavtor
04-22-2008, 08:03 AM
following up on this question, when is a good time to switch to PvE arms from fury?

If you don't have blood frenzy in your raid, get it, it's really that good.

Anglachel
04-22-2008, 09:32 AM
If you don't have blood frenzy in your raid, get it, it's really that good.

even if the only 2-handers i could grab right now are Hellforged Halberd (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29166) or Legionfoe (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=34673)?

and if so, which one?

shiz98
04-22-2008, 10:50 AM
I wouldn't swap to Arms until you can get 142 hit rating. You'll be dropping in DPS anyway, and being that far below the hit cap with be a tough limitation to overcome.

Generally speaking, you're probably looking at the melee DPS classes doing ~800 DPS each. Assuming you have a single melee group (it's rough playing melee in T5...), that's 4 * 800 = 3200 DPS from the melee, excluding you. Four percent of that is 128 DPS. I think you'll probably do 128 DPS more as Fury. Toss in a couple hunters, and it might start looking worthwhile.

Weapons wise, Legionfoe is vastly superior. It has higher top-end damage, more critical strike percentage, and expertise, which is more valuable point-for-point than hit rating. With a Blessing of Kings, the AP difference will be pretty minor.

Gladiator's Greatsword - Items - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=24550) would be the only comparable weapon outside of raiding. Stat-wise, Legionfoe is still better (barely), but the PvP reward has much better top-end damage.

Anglachel
04-22-2008, 11:29 AM
hmmm... so i'll work on building my HR... plus, i'll look at the other melee during the next raid and see how much DPS they put out, take 4&#37; of that, add it to my maxdps.com estimate for pve arms, then compare that to my maxdps fury estimate... when the arms number is superior to the fury number, i should be safe to switch, right?

and yes, it sucks being melee in T5... i get to widdle my thumbs through 2 of Kael's advisors. while ranged can go crazy...

shiz98
04-22-2008, 08:43 PM
Essentially, yes. I wouldn't go by maxdps, however, since its Arms numbers are way on the high side. If you can find numbers for a nice even fight (say, Gruul) with minimal ranged/melee bias, work from there.

Anglachel
04-23-2008, 12:31 PM
Toss in a couple hunters, and it might start looking worthwhile.

i was just rereading the Blood Frenzy tooltip, and i noticed this... hunter dps is also physical, and as such would be affected by BF... we run with 2-3 BM hunters depending on attendance, so that would be a decend dps increase...

I have to say, this spec keeps getting more attractive the more i learn about it... it surprises me that it isn't more popular than it is now.

Dudaclan
04-24-2008, 07:11 AM
Well I found a very useful website for helping me decide what DPS gear I need. MaxDPS is a pretty useful site. Since it has a lot of filters for picking usable gear.

Kazeyonoma
04-24-2008, 09:37 AM
maxdps.com is a great site to get a general idea of what kinda upgrades you have, but it by no means makes up for wws logs and self testing. It makes a lot of assumptions in things, and its great for theorycrafting, or looking for gear setups, but remember that in the long run, you have to consider your raid, your play style, your latency, etc before any solid # will appear.

shiz98
04-26-2008, 02:43 AM
According to MaxDPS, I should be outdoing our Fury warriors and everyone but the Warlocks. In reality, I'm barely outdoing the Mages (in other words, I'm around fifth from the bottom. no comments on the mages, please).

If anything, I'd use the EJ spreadsheet.

Forgot to mention this, but keep in mind that BF isn't going to be quite 4&#37; of the damage. Rogues are poisoning, Ret pallies are proccing seals and whatnot (or whatever it is they do), and hunters are... shooting stuff.

My point is that not all physical DPSers do 100% physical DPS. That's the realm of Warrior alone.

Anglachel
04-26-2008, 10:51 AM
maxdps is high for everything... according to it, my fury damaga should be over 900, and in reality it's closer to 600...

so if you compare maxdps estimates with each other, it should be fairly accurate... just don't compare it to game data...