PDA

View Full Version : Kill Archimonde without Kael



Poolstick
04-16-2008, 06:34 AM
Has anyone heard of a guild that has killed Archimonde without killing Kael yet? I think my guild is getting rather close to downing him, and I was just wondering if this might be a world first or something. We know it's kind of cheap but hey, if our guild does a world first of something, how cool is that?

P.S. WoWJutsu is blocked here, or I would be looking at that :(

maddfez
04-16-2008, 07:12 AM
go kill Kael...much better fight imo

byechee
04-16-2008, 09:08 AM
the guild DomLnant on ner'zhul killed arch last saturday without the guild having killed kael.

Poolstick
04-16-2008, 09:23 AM
Damn, Thanks for the Info though! I think we'll still get to piss off a few guilds on our server though :D.

And, To Madd... I don't personally have any sway on what bosses we kill first, and from what we've done of Archi I like it a lot (I'm a tank- turned warlock, so its different for me) so I'm not to interested in doing the fight everyone says is a huge grind first.

bludwork
04-17-2008, 06:47 AM
kael is obsolete. Do it for the rings but if you're close to killing archi, why the hell would you go back to kael?

kittikat
04-17-2008, 06:58 AM
kael is obsolete. Do it for the rings but if you're close to killing archi, why the hell would you go back to kael?
Kael just feels like an epic fight. It's not like killing Vashj and those stupid nagas. You get a sense of accomplishment when you kill Kael, plus you get to wield Legendary weapons!! Who DOESN'T like that!? XD

maddfez
04-17-2008, 07:54 AM
We're 5/5 and 8/9 so far....and Kael is by far the best fight in the game. Archi is neat, as are Bloodboil, RoS, and what we've seen of Illidan so far, but watching everything come together on Kael was awesome. Plus...you get legendaries!!! :)

That being said, good luck on Archi!

Nez
04-17-2008, 09:00 AM
Some nice tank items on Kael, plus its a very, very fun fight. One of the best in the game.

Not intended as an insult, but since there are no keys required for Hyjal now, not sure being world first is really meaningful. Just means you missed a really cool fight.
:D

Poolstick
04-17-2008, 10:23 AM
Oh, it's not really all that meaningful. Just cool. :D

Clifford
04-17-2008, 11:06 AM
We had killed Vashj but not Kael before 2.4 came out but I kept the guild going to Kael (alternating with MH). Killing Kael'thas was a massive high as was Vashj.

I know that it might seem unnecessary to many people but I wanted to feel that I had earned the right to be in MH/BT, as well as not skipping any content.

sabinsmain
04-17-2008, 01:05 PM
We had killed Vashj but not Kael before 2.4 came out but I kept the guild going to Kael (alternating with MH). Killing Kael'thas was a massive high as was Vashj.

I know that it might seem unnecessary to many people but I wanted to feel that I had earned the right to be in MH/BT, as well as not skipping any content.

^ probably the best thing ive heard from a guild that didnt kill keal pre 2.4...mad props to you my friend....kael is my 2nd fav encounter in the game its epic and you do have a sense that you really killed a boss.. i still try to find a guild that'll take me to kael just because i love the fight

Aughban
04-18-2008, 01:22 AM
We had killed Vashj but not Kael before 2.4 came out but I kept the guild going to Kael (alternating with MH). Killing Kael'thas was a massive high as was Vashj.

I know that it might seem unnecessary to many people but I wanted to feel that I had earned the right to be in MH/BT, as well as not skipping any content.

i know a few guilds on my server are publicly laughed at for being in MH/BT without being able to down TK/SSC bosses. For once kael is a great encounter lots of fun and keeps your guild sharp and at this point the game does actually require a little skill to play.

Poolstick
04-18-2008, 05:58 AM
Yea, we're not planning on completely skipping Kael, I don't think anyone in the guild wants to do that.

We farm SSC each week and we have Vashj down (yea I had to retype Vashj 3 times and I'm still not sure I spelled it right) and as soon as we get Archi we are gonna go after Kael. We're a type of guild that has a little bit of fun doing things out of the ordinary (we raid Ogrimarr after every worthwhile boss kill (no, shade doesn't count)) so this just seems like the right track for us. Plus we want to prove to the guilds that killed Kael that we are as good or better than them b/c we can do Archi before them.

Apparently others feel differently, but oh well.

klor
04-18-2008, 05:59 AM
I dont think "killing archi before kael" counts as a world first...sorry.

Otherwise killing Moroes before attunemen would count as a world first...

Poolstick
04-18-2008, 07:20 AM
I dont think "killing archi before kael" counts as a world first...sorry.

Otherwise killing Moroes before attunemen would count as a world first...

I really don't think that can be even remotely compared. I think (hope) you know why too. I don't mean a world-first boss kill, but rather the first guild to be able to kill Kael first. Thanks for telling me I'm retarded though! I really appreciate it.

Nez
04-18-2008, 07:58 AM
Don't worry about what others think, just do what your guide has fun doing and wants to do. Thats what a game is all about. I'm actually glad my guild is just starting on Illidan right now, if we were downing Brutalis I'd be looking for something to do shortly hehe.

klor
04-18-2008, 11:25 AM
I really don't think that can be even remotely compared. I think (hope) you know why too. I don't mean a world-first boss kill, but rather the first guild to be able to kill Kael first. Thanks for telling me I'm retarded though! I really appreciate it.

I did not say you were retarded :)

I merely pointed out this is comparable to the guys on my server who bragged about getting a 'server first' kill on Mag when 2.4 came out...

Its cool that you aren't skipping Kael completely. My guild isn't either...I was just pointing out that you cannot stake claims to 'world firsts' to silly things like "Well, what if I killed Mag before Gruul?" or "What if we did VR before Mag now that they removed the attunement for tk? Would it be a world first if we did that?" Same thing applies duder :-/

Tanksinatra
04-18-2008, 11:48 AM
My first Kael kill was far and away the single best experience I have ever had playing this game, and one that will not likely be topped any time soon. Getting Archimonde is great, but if you're in PvE for the right reasons (seeing content and killing epic bosses) and not the wrong reasons (phat purplez) than going back for Kael should be your guild's #1 priority.

Poolstick
04-23-2008, 08:38 PM
Archi's down tonight without Kael! Woohoo!

Minirage
04-27-2008, 10:55 PM
Heh...

Why kill Kael...why kill anything? Much of badge loot (esp weapons) is better than most T6 gear.

Why fight Kael? Well...Main Tank kael and then come back to this thread and you will see. For me it was one of the best tanking moments since I started tanking - pure wowcrack.

Can you guys do Archi? Sure why not. But to pass up Kael...

Tanking Archi is somewhat...lacking compared to kael. Cheers on your acomplishent though.

Dynafrack
04-29-2008, 03:42 PM
You'll want to kill Kael eventually. It will follow you around forever....


"Yeah, <Guild Name> is in BT, but they skipped Kael"

Not a stigma you want attached to your guild.

Poolstick
04-29-2008, 06:07 PM
Yep, plenty of QQ from the realm forums, trust me. Say anything about anyone, and theres a level 7 alt saying "You guys kill Kael yet? MgT doesn't count nubs."

But whatever, I agree its time to do Kael but of course the management disagrees. Plus, the only tanking I will be doing is with my warlock :-D. I switched from tanking to warlocking but I still read tankspot cause you guys are fucking sweet.

Thanks for the input all, maybe I can show this to the GM and convince him haha.

Armstrong
04-30-2008, 10:23 PM
At the risk of being a bit redundant, I'll say that working on Kael was 10x more fun than working on Archimonde.

Our guild was in the best shape it's ever been at the time (and needed the attunements) and we downed him on our 4th night of pulls. We killed him three more times before moving out of TK.

Kael'thas was by far the most fun fight in TBC so far for me. If your guild ever completes Sunwell before WotLK, you should definitely take the time to go back and get a Kael kill just for the experience.

Clifford
05-01-2008, 01:11 AM
If I judge the relative enjoyment; sense of achievement; and perhaps relief that my guild members have felt by how vocal they are on Vent then Vashj and Kael'thas kills can't be topped.

I had to remove my headset due to the shouts of joy and congratulations when these bosses went down. Now that is what raiding is all about and that makes all the effort I put into leading these raids worth it :D:D

Now bring on Bloodboil ....

nimchip
05-11-2008, 09:14 PM
You'll want to kill Kael eventually. It will follow you around forever....


"Yeah, <Guild Name> is in BT, but they skipped Kael"

Not a stigma you want attached to your guild.


Why would you wanna go back except for the rep rings? It's stupid and so are people if they care about what the rest of the server says.

This is a video-game not an honor and/or morality simulator.

ps: bragging about it is equally stupid

klor
05-22-2008, 12:36 PM
Why would you wanna go back except for the rep rings? It's stupid and so are people if they care about what the rest of the server says.

This is a video-game not an honor and/or morality simulator.

ps: bragging about it is equally stupid

Its not about bragging. Its about earning the right to be where you are. Self satisfaction. Up until this point with my guild working on both archi and bloodboil, Kaelthass Sunstrider is the hardest encounter I have had to main tank (and I have main tanked every progression kill except Azgalor and Gorefiend) and it was truly the only fight that by the end of it, my hands were shaking with adrenaline. It tests your awareness, your survivability, and every other skill you've worked on and acquired as a tank.

The ring, the title...they are both just bragging rights... but they symbolize a tank who actually worked for them and a guild who earned the right. I personally show no respect for guilds that say "Kaelthass is a waste of time" because they are the same guilds that will never make it any further than 4/5 hyjal (maybe a few might clear it) and 3/9 or 4/9 Bt. The guilds that inch away from any part of a challenge because they are afraid and only farm easy trash mob bosses.

For those of you who also say Kaelthass is not worth it... look at the loot.

Ashes of Al'ar.
The royal gauntlets of silvermoon (still the top EH gauntlets in the game to my knowledge)
The neck piece from the orb... best destro lock neck in game.. 1 of 2 best prot pally necks in the game... one of the best healing necks in game... meh tanking neck for a warrior...
tier5 chests are still some of the stronger pieces in the game.
the rings for the vials.. I know i cannot find a ring thats better than mine currently.

The list just goes on and on. So tell me again why Kael is not worth it?

nimchip
05-25-2008, 01:33 PM
Its not about bragging. Its about earning the right to be where you are. Self satisfaction. Up until this point with my guild working on both archi and bloodboil, Kaelthass Sunstrider is the hardest encounter I have had to main tank (and I have main tanked every progression kill except Azgalor and Gorefiend) and it was truly the only fight that by the end of it, my hands were shaking with adrenaline. It tests your awareness, your survivability, and every other skill you've worked on and acquired as a tank.

The ring, the title...they are both just bragging rights... but they symbolize a tank who actually worked for them and a guild who earned the right. I personally show no respect for guilds that say "Kaelthass is a waste of time" because they are the same guilds that will never make it any further than 4/5 hyjal (maybe a few might clear it) and 3/9 or 4/9 Bt. The guilds that inch away from any part of a challenge because they are afraid and only farm easy trash mob bosses.

For those of you who also say Kaelthass is not worth it... look at the loot.

Ashes of Al'ar.
The royal gauntlets of silvermoon (still the top EH gauntlets in the game to my knowledge)
The neck piece from the orb... best destro lock neck in game.. 1 of 2 best prot pally necks in the game... one of the best healing necks in game... meh tanking neck for a warrior...
tier5 chests are still some of the stronger pieces in the game.
the rings for the vials.. I know i cannot find a ring thats better than mine currently.

The list just goes on and on. So tell me again why Kael is not worth it?

If you are going to go back - then go back for the loot (and only if you need it) and not because some random troll in your realm boards told you that your guild is trash for skipping him. Sorry but going back to him - after BT/Hyjal clears - just because you want to prove yourself is silly. Perhaps now you can understand what I'm saying.

nimchip
05-25-2008, 01:39 PM
I personally show no respect for guilds that say "Kaelthass is a waste of time" because they are the same guilds that will never make it any further than 4/5 hyjal (maybe a few might clear it) and 3/9 or 4/9 Bt. The guilds that inch away from any part of a challenge because they are afraid and only farm easy trash mob bosses.My guild broke up after some drama issues and after wipes of PRE-NERF Kael'thas. I had never raided before with them and was simply in the guild because i was a friend. Skip forward a year later and I'm tanking Zul'Aman and the original leader reforms the guild. We skip SSC/TK and go straight to BT/Hyjal with badges gear. We're currently 5/5 Hyjal 6/9 BT currently working on hearts for mother - and we only raid THREE DAYS A WEEK. Wanna bet we can kill Illidan and make you swallow your own words?

If anything we'll do Kael'thas when people are exalted with Hyjal and exclusively for the rings, because I'm not gonna waste my time on places that badges gear already outgear.

Forgot to add linky: Sold Out - Mal'ganis Guild - US PvP (http://www.so-guild.com)

OnourisofRavencrest
07-14-2008, 06:59 AM
because they are the same guilds that will never make it any further than 4/5 hyjal (maybe a few might clear it) and 3/9 or 4/9 Bt. The guilds that inch away from any part of a challenge because they are afraid and only farm easy trash mob bosses.


Hmm.... we're currently 4/5 7/9 with two progression kills in two weeks and we've never killed Kael... if things work out for us tonight maybe I can edit with our first Council kill, who knows..

Edit: Later than I had hoped for but 7-20-08 Council Down; still no Kael.

Hamburglar
07-15-2008, 08:22 AM
Of course you can skip Kael'thas and kill Illidan/Archimonde.

Pre-BC, if you had 40 raiders who were geared up to kill most of Naxxramas and could walk right in, would you not do it? Would you force your guild to kill C'Thun before ever setting foot in Naxx? Face it, half the loots off of Kael'thas are redundant and underwhelming. Blame Blizzard for putting out insanely OP badge loots that make T5 chest pieces look like crap. Imagine you're a pre-BC raider and BC has been out for a few months. Would you like to be able to say you wiped on C'Thun for months or that you raided most of Naxx and had fun doing it?

Also, not everyone who plays WoW is part of an established hardcore raiding guild. I want to see content before the next expansion. I wanna say I saw most of BT, not that I wiped for months on Kael'thas. Who cares what some jackass says about your guild. People that rip other guilds on their server who want to progress in a BLIZZARD-APPROVED way should get a life.

Slobash
07-16-2008, 04:52 AM
We've just downed Archi recently and haven't killed Kael yet but plan on going back there to kill him, doesn't feel right not having killed him. Plus we're all exalted now and want our rings :D

knagh
07-17-2008, 12:38 PM
we got our first kael kill tuesday night after several nights of wiping and wiping and wiping. it really was an epic fight, with the ceiling crashing down, super-huge kael and all that goodness. i even won the roll for the quest item!!!

we're hoping to take down arch tonight, maybe we'll be the world first to get kael + arch first kills in the same week ..... :D

arami
07-21-2008, 05:20 AM
Zero Tolerance of Al'akir has downed archi a week ago without killing kael :(

we still wanna down them but we much bette work in BT/MH so we just kept going there insed of wipeing 2 weeks on kael/vashj

i really hope we will down them cuz they are 2 epic WTF fights

Celandro
07-21-2008, 03:46 PM
We made the decision to kill kael before working hard in BT/Hyjal and have not regretted it. The first Kael kill is 30 epics when you could the hyjal rep rings. We are close to killing Archi now and do not regret the time spent on Kael at all.

Noblersavage
08-05-2008, 08:14 AM
The Phoenix on Kul Tiras just killed Illidari Council last night, so they will probably kill Illidan before they kill Kael.

hbombs
08-10-2008, 08:13 PM
we just downed arch w/o kael. We are going back to get him starting this week :)

Triank
08-22-2008, 04:27 PM
My guild was at vashj and kael when 2.4 came out. When it hit alot of guilds ran right in and killed rage and still couldnt touch vashj or kael. We got vashj down then set our focus on kael. I took alot of heat but I wasnt going to skip content or take the easy road when people said we can kill in hyjal and still work on kael.

In the end it took less time to kill Kael and once we downed him we 1 shot him after that. Its really a fun fight from all aspects imo. Ironically a guild on our server who killed vashj and kael twice before 2.4 try to go back and get some members their rings and they cant do it. I find this funny cause we can go in and drop vashj and kael in one shots but we are having trouble with archi.

Hamburglar
08-22-2008, 05:18 PM
Here's the issue with Vashj and Kael. In these 2 fights, every person in the raid has to fulfill a duty and do it well or you fail. In Vashj, the tanks gotta pick up nagas fast, the dps has to put out good numbers to kill nagas/striders/tainted, the stair dps has to react fast to tainteds, core passing has to go smoothly and healers need to keep everyone topped through lightning. In Kael, people gotta react to the weapons and kill/loot them quick, the whole raid has to watch for Thaladred while doing their thing, they gotta burn Kael's shield, spread out for nether vapor, etc. This is very hard to do in a more casual raiding guild that might not have the same 25 man crew every night. Bringing in a few new people every time makes the difference. Someone gets confused and doesn't kill a tainted or doesn't react to Thaladred and gets pwnt. On Archimonde, you need to do 650 dps, click an item in your inventory and don't stand in fire. Much, much easier to do with an average crew.

In the end it just depends on your guild. We're working on Vashj/Kael right now after clearing a lot of Hyjal and BT and we know we can do it if we took 4-5 days of straight attempts. We however can not do this because of the summer and peoples' real lives not allowing it. In the end, if we do kill them before the expansion, we'll get a silly title and a ring that we won't really need to kill Illidan. Is a guild like ours better served going after Archimonde(2 nights 68%) and pushing past Bloodboil(first night of attempts 65%) and picking up T6 upgrades or putting in nights of Vashj/Kael for inferior drops? Our goal is to kill Illidan before the expansion but we're really wrestling with what is the best thing to do.

bosephus
08-23-2008, 11:57 PM
Our goal is to kill Illidan before the expansion but we're really wrestling with what is the best thing to do.

Archimonde, Vashj and Kael are great fights for identifying who is actually a good raider. Use WWS and go over the death logs. See who's dying to what and when. Although you can now go straight to Illidan without them, I'm glad my guild and I went through Vashj, Kael and Archi. They are some of the most fun fights in game.

bludwork
08-24-2008, 12:33 PM
Certainly very difficult fights Vashj and Kael. The only 2 fights with hard dps checks vashj p2 and kael weapons, in addition to almost flawless execution.

But what set them apart was the only fight where you had to loot stuff into your bags and use em lol

Hamburglar
08-25-2008, 07:25 AM
Archimonde, Vashj and Kael are great fights for identifying who is actually a good raider. Use WWS and go over the death logs. See who's dying to what and when. Although you can now go straight to Illidan without them, I'm glad my guild and I went through Vashj, Kael and Archi. They are some of the most fun fights in game.

I would definitely agree with this, but the talent pool horde side on my server is very poor and right now there isn't an active raiding guild that has downed Illidan... So regardless of how poor a raider is, with some exceptions, they make it into raids to make them happen. This kind of thing makes fights like Vashj and Kael exceedingly difficult for a guild like ours on a server like ours that can't support a good horde raiding environment. All the guilds that have killed Vashj/Kael horde side on our server have been raiding since well before burning crusade but most are not much farther than us in terms of T6 progression...

That is the point I was attempting to make. :) We haven't seen one fight so far in T6 where one weak link destroys the raid, like in the case of Vashj/Kael.

OnourisofRavencrest
09-01-2008, 10:23 AM
This is more of a "post our success" type post, but my guild killed Illidan last Monday and Archimonde last night; we have never killed Kael (I've never even killed Vashj, and yet I've tanked ever MH/BT Boss), though a ring would be cool. The best part about it is the Bulwark dropped first kill. :D

Inaara
09-01-2008, 12:24 PM
Amazing what guilds can do with free epics eh?

OnourisofRavencrest
09-01-2008, 11:28 PM
Amazing what guilds can do with free epics eh?

Yep! Lucky for me I didn't have to work for anything, everytime I went into a raid we had a GM who walked by and just instakilled every mob? Why? Because we're a guild progressing later than yours, and everything just has to be handed to us! Work for our kills? Pashaw! It was as easy as a five man but with five times the people! But tell me, if I ever wanted to, how can I be as cool as you?

tehgreen
09-02-2008, 01:35 AM
Yep! Lucky for me I didn't have to work for anything, everytime I went into a raid we had a GM who walked by and just instakilled every mob? Why? Because we're a guild progressing later than yours, and everything just has to be handed to us! Work for our kills? Pashaw! It was as easy as a five man but with five times the people! But tell me, if I ever wanted to, how can I be as cool as you?


tankspot forums ~= wow warrior forums, srsly.

less of this shit.

OnourisofRavencrest
09-02-2008, 05:23 AM
tankspot forums ~= wow warrior forums, srsly.

less of this shit.

I thought so as well. Come to find out if I research a fight, do everything I can to prepare, and do everything I can to learn it, then I must have only done well because 2.4 badge gear is out; at least according to some on this site. Forget encouraging success, let's bash anyone else who's happy to have seen content and then bash them more when they take offense to it.

nezander
09-10-2008, 12:52 PM
It would be really nice if every guild started raiding when BC launched, and then we could have all been playing by the same rules, and everything would be fair, and all would be well. Unfortunately real life isn't like that. Some of us floundered in bad raiding guilds with bad leadership or other issues and spent a lot of time going nowhere.

After over a year of that, we formed our guild 6 months ago, raiding Kara, and then ZA, and ground those places into dust to extract as many badges as humanly possible. Yes, I've heard that it's free epix, blah blah. Sorry, we were still recruiting for most of that time, we had no other choice. It was insanely boring, but when 2.4 came out, virtually all our members were able to get every available badge piece.

By then, we were well into SSC and TK, although raiding with less than 25 people sometimes, and making great progress, and the badge gear enabled us to move even faster. With the attunements to Hyjal and BT removed, we had a clear choice to make. We could press forward with the kills that were clearly designed to be roadblocks, and reap some satisfaction while doing so, along with some gear that would not be huge improvements, or we could move up. We actually chose to stay and work on Vashj first, and we did kill her. But, that took us a while, and while we were doing it, we noticed that a lot of guilds with lesser players and lesser skill were already working on the first few bosses in Hyjal/BT. We started working on Kael, which was way harder imo, and as time went on, it became very difficult to convince the members that it was worth it to keep working on Kael when better gear was readily available in the instances we were trying to get to in the first place. We decided to skip him, for better or worse, and moved into Hyjal/BT. Within a week or so, we were 4/5 in Hyjal and 3/9 in BT. Deciding to skip Archi and focus on farming the first 4 bosses and clearing the rest of BT seemed the best way to go.

6 months after forming, we are working on Illidan, and still have never killed Archi or Kael. Will we? Yes, we will go back and clean them up. Is it our fault that they removed the attunements? No, and it's not our fault that they released badge gear or that some of our members have pretty good pvp gear for certain raid situations, etc. etc. We aren't cheating, we are clearly doing what Blizz intended us to do, and I think we're doing it as well as anyone could expect to do it.

We pvp'd to get every single member a pvp trinket for Rage, we all got the SR medallion, we ground out HoD until everyone had maxed out SR for Mother, we did all that stuff, just like the people that cleared BT last year. We just weren't lucky enough to be in a good guild until relatively late in the game. That's not our fault and I refuse to think that we've somehow cheated the system. We've put a stupid amount of hours and hard work into the last 6 months and I'm proud of it.