View Full Version : A very confused tank
04-06-2008, 03:44 PM
My question is on how to gear for tanking, I was under the impression that you shouldn't stack / gem avoidance since warrior plate has so much on it already that you should always gem for more stamina and raise your effective health. Fights like Prince in Karazhan favor avoidance due to there fast attack speeds, while the next step up Gruul is more of a high stamina / armor fight. I also hear people stacking block rating ( or value I'm not sure) for 5-mans and heroics, I can't think of why you would do this other than better SS's and more blocking, but wouldn't that come at the expense of more valuable statistics like parry? As it stands right now I have high avoidance from my protection gear and that allows me to take on more mobs with less CC, meaning less picky group setups (always best to assume PuG dps / cc are retards) should I continue with this trend and start multiple sets for avoidance and block rating (or was it value!?) If so why and when should I use these sets?
04-06-2008, 10:10 PM
The answer is, there's not one "best set" for any one encounter.
The reason people do not stack avoidance in a 5-man is simple: You need a certain damage in-take in order to tank. Block Value is additional threat and mitigation. There's no reason to stack Block Rating in a 5-man/Heroic (or in raids, for that matter, except for specific situations) for a warrior. In Heroics, avoidance helps more than additional EH does, often -- mainly because you'll most likely be tanking multiple mobs that hit hard.
Stamina and armor, on the other hand, always works. You can get past any encounter in the game by stacking stamina and armor, which is why most people will recommend it. In early progression, it's simply easier to have fewer sets.
Add to that the drawbacks of avoidance (no damage means no rage), and stacking stamina becomes a very good idea.
That said, you need a minimum of avoidance even if you stack stamina, and you need some stamina even if you stack avoidance. Neither one works without the other. You'll get most of what you need simply by getting upgrades, but it's still good to keep in mind.
The typical way a warrior gems for avoidance is to go for the socket bonuses. For instance, Eternium Greathelm has a red socket, a yellow socket, and a blue socket, which gives +4 Dodge rating if you meet the requirements. That's a +8 Dodge rating gem (Subtle Living Ruby), a +8 Defense gem (Thick Dawnstone), and a +12 Stamina gem (Solid Star of Elune). While this doesn't give as much avoidance as you'd get if you gemmed pure Dodge gems, it helps you meet the minimum stamina that you'll always need.
04-10-2008, 08:51 AM
If you're already past the def cap and feel the need to gem, for a specific socket bonus, don't forget that mixed colours can be pretty handy, especially if you've juggled gear around and need to be careful of the def cap.
Enduring Talasite - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft (http://www.wowwiki.com/Enduring_Talasite) (green sta/def) is pretty useful if you need to fill a yellow socket, and haven't any useful epic gems from heroics etc (such as the Orange Glimmering Fire Opal - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft (http://www.wowwiki.com/Glimmering_Fire_Opal) or Nimble Fire Opal - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft (http://www.wowwiki.com/Nimble_Fire_Opal).
A kit juggling had dropped me to 489 def, so the cheapest way to up it was to add a green Enduring_Talasite to my engy tank gun to replace the 12 stam Elune. The Green was +6 sta, +3 sta for gun bonus so only a 30 hp loss. I personally see a yellow def gem as a bit of a waste given def stats on gear, unless needed for the cap, or to activate a meta etc. The main reason as mentioned above was to allow flexibility in swapping gear in and out, having a normal tanky set, trash set and a max EH one, and then swapping in and out items for specific encounters, especially with rings & trinkets. I seem to be doing this more, rather than less, especially having finally picked up some T4 & the Kz/faire trinkets I've been after for a while.
04-10-2008, 04:11 PM
A lot of tanks also will use the 4agi 6sta purple gem for red slots instead of the 8dodge rating gem. 8 dodge is great for a pure avoidance piece, 4agi 6sta is good for an EH/threat or all-around piece (a little bit of threat, a little bit of HP, a little bit of avoidance), and 12sta for an all-out EH piece where you don't care about the socket bonus.
As for what sets you have, and when you should use them:
High Avoidance and Block VALUE: Heroics
High Avoidance: Fast hitters (Prince, and I think Leo and Brutallus although I haven't seen them)
High Block Value and Hit/Expertise: Trash pulls on raids
High Armor and Sta: Progression fights (those your guild hasn't put on farm status)
High Hit/Expertise and Armor/Sta: Farm-Status bosses
As you can see, you need a broad range of gear that you can swap in and out as needed. In addition to those listed above, you will often find something that doesn't fit into the model (ie, Nalorakk in Zul'Aman requires you to be as close to Hit-Capped as you can get to not miss on taunts, but you will also need high armor/hp if it's a progression fight). This is why many DKP guilds give discounts to Main Tanks.
04-19-2008, 06:25 AM
block rating is not a good stat. while a percent of block is relatively cheap, it only mitigates damage in conjunciton with high block value. for 5 mans alone it is possible to make this avialbe damage deterent, but much of hte high block value gear is from higher end content.
neither block value or block rating are maximally effective for anything outside the highest end tanking, where you already have hit cap, expertise cap, and maybe uncrushability(block rating helps alot with this).
avoidance is much better than block rating because when you avoid an attack you save youre shield block charges and reduce your chance to be crushed.
parry is bad. get dodge or defense and you will have much higher avoidance, you can make up the threat difference with expertise which is fairly cheap aswell and still have lower item level costs overall than you would stacking parry for avoidance and faster attacks.
if all you are going to do is tank 5 mans and be the best damn 5 man tank, block rating/block value wouldnt be the worst thing. aside from stupid dps/cc, you need to watch out for healers pulling agro on multiple targets. stacking stamina requires greater healing than aovidance and hurts you in multiple target scenarios.
if you move from 5 man into 10/25 man serious content, you should drop block value/rating for dodge/stam/expertise
04-19-2008, 06:47 AM
Keep browsing around these forums, especially the guides area to get a good idea about why you certain stats can be more beneficial depending on the encounter; aka gear swapping.
There's no universal rule for tank gearing; it depends on content. That being said the basic idea has already been summarized here by a few people, just realize there's more to these statements that you should check out if you want reach a higher tanking potential.
It sounds like you're still gearing up, and you might be running a lot of heroics. The gearing strategy to run a heroic can be a little different if you want to make the run as smooth as possible. At first you just need to survive, but once you've passed that blockade you can start stacking more expertise, hit, and block value for threat. There's a few things to remember when you're just trying to run a fast heroic.
You don't need as much hit rating. The mobs are only 70-72, there's no such thing as a lvl 73 heroic mob so you need a lot less hit. I can't remember offhand what it is, but it's somewhere around 5% I think. Expertise is still crazy hot, and so is block value for that snap threat on the initial pulls. And you can even use block rating as a good stat for mitigation. In heroics blocking 600+ damage can be a pretty substantial amount of mitigation, especially if you're tanking multiple mobs or fast hitting mobs. For the most part dual wielding mobs can no longer damage me in heroics because their miss chance (24%) + my dodge + my parry + my block is pretty damn close to 100%.
I started tanking exclusively in heroics and got a lot of gear that way. Just be sure that you are getting gear with good EH for raid tanking too. I got smoked in ZA until I started lurking around here more and figured out when and how to gear swap.