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Hanoumatoi
04-04-2008, 02:57 AM
So I find myself looking at the 2.4 badge gear, and my gear, and my defense, and I find myself wondering... "Should I get rid of anticipation?"
My talent build for reference: The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-talents.xml?r=Feathermoon&n=Hanoumatoi)
There are several talents I would like to pick up. I'd love the final point in Imp Heroic Strike. I'd love to have some points in improved blood rage. Improved Taunt wouldn't be bad, and neither would Improved Defensive Stance.

Any suggestions on how important Anticipation is, or which of these talents to pick up?

maddfez
04-04-2008, 06:41 AM
Even with enough defense to put you over 490 without anticipation, you still gain a significant amount of avoidance from the talent.

On the other hand, you might be able to move the points in TM into 2/2 imp blood rage and the last point in imp HS. While TM is a solid talent, I haven't found it nearly as useful in raids as some of the others you listed.

ebs2002
04-04-2008, 10:34 AM
Also note that you need 5 points in the first tier to go down the prot tree...so you either need to do 2/2 Imp Bloodrage and 3/3 Tactical Mastery, or some anticipation points.

IMO, Anticipation is still a must-have. I'd drop Tactical Mastery before I'd drop anticipation, because TM doesn't do much and anticipation is still 0.8% increase in dodge/parry/block/miss, even if you're over 490def. As an avoidance talent, it has no equal.

Rayne
04-04-2008, 11:21 AM
Depends to an extent on the content you're doing, but I absolutely love IBR. TM is nice, but I don't really miss it too much. Improved Taunt is wonderful in 5-mans. Tried Anger Management, don't miss it. Also able to get by with fewer points in Cruelty and IHS. Improved Defensive stance is essential for Hydross imo and is a nice bonus for HMT.

Kazeyonoma
04-04-2008, 11:24 AM
I don't think TM really shines in tanking, you rarely stance dance, and when you do, I've never had issues with rage after changing back. Anticipation will almost always give you more bang for your buck, it gives you a nice increase to avoidance, and likewise it gives you more leeway for your gear to stay uncrittable and instead push for EH or threat.

Taelas
04-04-2008, 11:49 AM
Tactical Mastery, as nice as it is when it comes into play, isn't worth the points, no. At most, I'd go 2/2 Imp. BR, 3/5 Anticipation -- but I wouldn't miss out on Imp. BR anyway, so for me it's sort of moot.

You can bleed points out of Anticipation if you desperately want Tactical Mastery, I guess, I just don't see the point.

AlmtyBob
04-04-2008, 02:15 PM
Edit: I suck at posting.

AlmtyBob
04-04-2008, 02:29 PM
Depends to an extent on the content you're doing, but I absolutely love IBR. ... Tried Anger Management, don't miss it.

I understand that 5 extra rage for 2/2 IBR is nice for grabbing an early aggro lead and compensating for a miss, but Anger Management will generate 4 times as much rage per minute for 1 point than IBR will with 2. Easy, solution? Take both. 8)



Improved Defensive stance is essential for Hydross imo and is a nice bonus for HMT.

IDS is so situational I just can't bring myself to get it, even in SSC/TK. It would be nice to have but it usually comes down to blowing 3 points of threat talents for the 6% spell damage reduction. It's very far from essential in Hydross and will be even less so when all the guilds in SSC have healers decked out in 2.4 badge gear in a couple of weeks.

Rayne
04-04-2008, 02:33 PM
I understand that 5 extra rage for 2/2 IBR is nice for grabbing an early aggro lead and compensating for a miss, but Anger Management will generate 4 times as much rage per minute for 1 point than IBR will with 2. Easy, solution? Take both. 8)



Improved Defensive stance is essential for Hydross imo and is a nice bonus for HMT.

IDS is so situational I just can't bring myself to get it, even in SSC/TK. It would be nice to have but it usually comes down to blowing 3 points of threat talents for the 6% spell damage reduction. It's very far from essential in Hydross and will be even less so when all the guilds in SSC have healers decked out in 2.4 badge gear in a couple of weeks.

The extra rage from AM is nice and all, wouldn't mind having it on say Lurker, but didn't find it terribly helpful in 5-mans. Also required me to go deeper into Arms than I preferred, but I understand your thinking.

I'm enjoying IDS. It sees a lot of use in MT right now too as we're running that daily. I didn't have it for the longest time, may ditch it again, but I'll say that I take noticeably less damage tanking Frost phase than the Pally who tanks Nature (as I understand it Nature phase is a bit easier on the tank). We have the same resistance level. Could probably get by without it, but if nothing else it's really noticeable when Kael pyros me (sometimes DPS is great, others not so much).

I guess the only helpful point I have for you is I used to keep 2 points in MT, ditched them one day, and can't say I've really ever missed them.

bosephus
04-05-2008, 01:20 PM
I think that Tactical Mastery is more important as an off-tank then as a main tank. I'm off-tanking for 10 and 25 man content and I find myself popping between all three stances during fights in order to renew shouts, tank mobs, reduce my damage from incoming AOE spell effects, and to spam execute when the mob is below 20% health. I combine this with different weapon and shield combinations on hotkeys to increase my damage and rage generation.

I currently do not have Tactical Mastery, but I can see how it would be handy if your responsibilities are not main tanking duty.

Improved Defensive Stance is quite helpful in Heroic Magister's Terrace to mitigate all the spell damage. It's also useful on fights in SSC and bosses in ZA. Anything to make the healer's job easier.

Improved Blood Rage is really really nice, I think. Very useful in those initial few moments of a pull, where it helps to have as much rage as you can get to establish threat. Or to re-blood rage right before threat-sensitive transition moments, like Zul'jin.

But I would keep the points in Anticipation. If you have to don a resist set of armor, or decide to use trinkets without +def for a certain fight, you will find your defense dropping. Anticipation will allow you more flexibility in gear selection.

Ultimately, it just takes a few dailies' worth of cash to respec, right? Keep trying out new things until you get somewhere you feel comfortable for the content you're trying ;)

sabinsmain
04-06-2008, 11:41 AM
I've found that imp def stance is essential for me at least. Im the 3rd to go in on kale so the arcane buffets are ticking pretty high on me. It's nice on a lot of other bosses too council, illidan, gorefiend...any boss with a lot of raid damage thats magic it helps a lot. just my two copper

Radhja
04-06-2008, 11:51 AM
Tactical Mastery is a staple for any tank that wants to bleed a bit into PvP. Shield Reflect, Berserker Rage, Hamstring... I have to macro certain abilities to perform on-the-spot moves (cause manually clicking a stance is an arduous task), and TM makes it all possible, leaving just enough rage after a stance dance to perform said move.

As far as strict PvE content, MTs don't need it, but OTs benefit from it greatly.

I like it, and I spec 3/3 TM, 2/5 Anticipation. Well worth the slight loss in avoidance, imo.

Akranger
04-08-2008, 12:19 AM
If you need points and are looking at pulling them, pull 1 or 2 from toughness. most people will shy away from this but unless your working on progression you gain more from the def points then 1 or 2 from toughness. Stance dancing is nice. .but this is the question anyone should ask when considering where to put points. ."What do i NEED?" imp shield bash,imp sheild wall, imp rev are all nice but are not needed. Same thing with the other points, dont follow the herd, look at your weaknesses and go from there.