PDA

View Full Version : World Breaker vs. Blade of the Harbingers



Bayho
04-03-2008, 09:47 AM
So, for 2H Slam Arms Warrior DPS, anyone have any opinions on whether or not the new badge axe will completely outclass the World Breaker? Or, do you lose enough that badges would be spent better on something other than the new axe?

Thank you for your time.

Corbusier
04-03-2008, 09:55 AM
It's significantly better for PvE just based on stats.

Add in the fact that axe spec wtfpwns mace spec in PvE, well, there's your answer.

Bayho
04-03-2008, 10:38 AM
Well, the World Breaker is slower, so it is easier to manage cycles with, has a proc that gives it what, 2.5%+ crit overall, effectively giving it 55-60 crit rating, strength instead of AP, and the mace proc buff now generates 7 rage (not significant to really consider). I am just curious if anything this might not make the different between the two overly great?

Corbusier
04-03-2008, 10:48 AM
No, the difference heavily favors the Axe for PvE DPS.

Bayho
04-03-2008, 10:58 AM
Can you explain specifics, or do I simply take your word as truth?

Something about the axe does not quite sit right with me. It seems too good at first glance, especially considering how easy it is to obtain.

Corbusier
04-03-2008, 11:05 AM
Can you explain specifics, or do I simply take your word as truth?

Something about the axe does not quite sit right with me. It seems too good at first glance, especially considering how easy it is to obtain.

The Blade of Harbingers
Binds when picked up
Two-Hand Axe
375 - 563 Damage Speed 3.50
(134.0 damage per second)
Durability 120 / 120
Requires Level 70
Equip: Improves critical strike rating by 55 (2.49% @ L70).
Equip: Improves haste rating by 53 (3.36% @ L70).
Equip: Increases attack power by 108.

World Breaker
Binds when picked up
Two-Hand Mace
371 - 558 Damage Speed 3.70
(125.5 damage per second)
+50 Strength
+51 Stamina
Durability 120 / 120
Requires Level 70
Chance on hit: Increases the critical strike rating of your next attack made within 4 seconds by 900 (40.77% @ L70).

So with Kings:
axe gives:
About the same crit when averaged out PLUS 5% CRIT (equivalent to 110.5 crit rating) FROM AXE SPEC
2 less AP
53 haste
8.5 dps

I don't see why this is a difficult choice.

Bayho
04-03-2008, 11:17 AM
With flurry, the speed of the Axe, including Haste, etc, might have some issues with weaving in other attacks between white attacks. Also, the lower speed of the Mace means that the slams, even though the top end damage is a few less, will hit harder than the Axe slams, because slam is not normalized like other attacks and thus hits harder with slower weapons. So, there are some other things to consider.

Gorgrim Warcry
04-03-2008, 11:30 AM
Thread Hyjack

New axe over The Great Apocalypse?

Corbusier
04-03-2008, 11:32 AM
So, there are some other things to consider.
Only if you want to be annoyingly contrarian.

With the haste from the weapon itself, the speed drops to 3.38. Add 15% flurry, and it's 2.94. I think you're safe.
Also, the difference in average weapon damage is a whopping 4, in favor of the mace. So even your slams will hit virtually the same.

Bayho
04-03-2008, 11:40 AM
Still hit harder with slams from World Breaker. Not to mention latency in both connection and human reaction times. And, as a human, I get the expertise. I just still am not sure whether or not there will be a significant difference that I should use 150 badges on, which, btw was the initial question. Any opinions from someone that is not outright "annoyingly" abrasive?

Corbusier
04-03-2008, 11:42 AM
Ugh, fine, do what you want.

Bayho
04-03-2008, 11:59 AM
z0mG@wD! I want another opinion, the world is at an end? How far have you gone in PVE DPS in this game, btw?

Corbusier
04-03-2008, 12:06 PM
It doesn't matter, I can understand stats and mechanics and math just fine.

Hint: you can armory and see, this is my character's name. I'm also fairly well-known on the official WoW warrior forum as someone who know what they're talking about, ask around.

I don't mean to be harsh, but you're bringing up very small qualifiers that are vastly overshadowed by the sheer superiority of both the spec and the weapon.

Kavtor
04-03-2008, 12:28 PM
You're trying to argue that a ilvl 134 mace is in any way comparable to an ilvl 146 axe for PVE. The difference is large enough that you're not likely to get responses that aren't contrary to what you want to hear. The axe is better. By a lot. And since it's a weapon, you probably can't find any better way to spend your badges, unless you have some greens or blues that you can replace with ilvl 141 epics.

Ceravantes
04-03-2008, 12:40 PM
Jin'rohk, The Great Apocalypse
Binds when picked up
Two-Hand Sword
380 - 570 Damage Speed 3.70
(128.4 damage per second)
+49 Stamina
Durability 120 / 120
Requires Level 70
Equip: Improves haste rating by 45 (2.85% @ L70).
Equip: Increases attack power by 120.

Higher Top end, slower speed will give you higher slam and ms hits, haste rating is enarly the same and you gain a small amount of ap for 6 DPS loss, you would also ofcourse lose crit fromt eh weapon itself and 5% from axe spec, which is signifigant, but sword spec should make up for it. Personally i would upgrade from World Breaker to the new Axe, but would not spend the Badges if I had Jun'Rokh.

Bayho
04-03-2008, 12:53 PM
Yeah, I have not been able to get Jin'rohk to drop at all. I have most of the tank gear off of ZJ, but not the one thing I want. Go figure.

BoomBeef
04-22-2008, 11:56 AM
I use Mace spec to PvP and it really shines there. I do not think it competes well with Axe or Sword for PvE DPS but that is just specs and no weapons compared, just off experience.

I would not ignore specs when it comes to actual DPS. That should be evident from reading these forums and related links.

Now if you can get Jin'rokh then yeah go for it. I have not been lucky with it dropping either. Also consider S3 sword if you can get it. If not then get the Badge Axe. Lot of options and since you asked about actual greater DPS go Axe/Sword spec and get the big Axe/Sword within your grasp.

Heck I even spec Fury for PvE DPS. So I think the World Breaker can be safely put away unless you use it to PvP. At which point S3 Mace should be your next goal and I'd not worry about actual PvE DPS.

stompingbull
05-06-2008, 07:48 AM
as a warrior who has dps'd as pve arms since release of bc, and has used world breaker, jihnroc, lionheart executioner, and now blade of the harbingers....
get the badge axe.
It out dps world breaker by a ton, and jin by a few.If you have the za sword, save your badges and wait till cat's edge, but if you dont, get it.

Arcanewar
05-06-2008, 11:53 AM
What about the S2 sword?

I am trying to decide on either the axe or the s2 sword when s4 starts. Any thoughts?

(Currently have world breaker)

Thanks

KAOSFAYT
05-06-2008, 01:15 PM
Get The Damn Axe its been fully explained. LOL

careagain
05-06-2008, 02:20 PM
hey just wonderin what enchant would u suggest for a 2h weapon? Savager? Mongoose? or Executioner?

im currently deciding what to put on my weapon.

Kazeyonoma
05-06-2008, 02:39 PM
If you're AP is low, which normally beginning 2hand users are at, savagery is a nice enchant, the static AP from it doesn't rely on a proc and its a good boost of damage.

Mongoose is great if you like relying on a bit of a proc for agi which associates into crit. its likewise nice but for dps that's all it does, is crit.

Executioner is your bread and butter, it gives you a % increase in damage due the nature of armor penetration, and it only gets better as you get more and more ignore armor gear.

Savagery if you're poor or just starting
Mongoose if you REALLY want more crit (i don't use it ever for 2handers)
Executioner if you are gonna keep this weapon for a while cuz its expensive but is truly the best enchant.

careagain
05-06-2008, 02:49 PM
what would u suggest for 1830ish, unfbuffed, AP?

Kazeyonoma
05-06-2008, 04:01 PM
Executioner.

Dragaan
05-08-2008, 03:48 PM
Take the axe. Is it FAR better for PvE. Don't believe me/us? - Check out MaxDPS.com - World of Warcraft Gear Rankings - News (http://www.maxdps.com) (I have been following maxdps gearing choices exactly and gems most of the time, and I can tell you that site is great and WILL improve your raid dps). With t5-entryT6 stats, it rates the axe about 100dps higher than the mace. And I'm not exactly sure if that takes the 5% crit into account. Just get the axe.

Corbusier
05-08-2008, 06:21 PM
Take the axe. Is it FAR better for PvE. Don't believe me/us? - Check out MaxDPS.com - World of Warcraft Gear Rankings - News (http://www.maxdps.com) (I have been following maxdps gearing choices exactly and gems most of the time, and I can tell you that site is great and WILL improve your raid dps). With t5-entryT6 stats, it rates the axe about 100dps higher than the mace. And I'm not exactly sure if that takes the 5% crit into account. Just get the axe.

That site is less than amazing, especially for weapons. I include a lengthy disclaimer in my fury guide about it.

No, it does not include weapon specs.

Connandy
05-12-2008, 01:17 PM
Quite sadly, Blade of Harbingers is the big cheese.

With my build (changing sword spec and polearm spec accordingly, no human or orc racial) on a spreadsheet, it's a tad higher (within 1%) overall dps than Cataclysm Edge, likely due to not wasting budget on stamina. It's sad because Cataclysm has much sexier stats (ArP > haste, str > AP), would've stayed the top of pre-Sunwell 2h if they put on 50 crit rating instead of 75 stam. Especially if you are not human, if you want to give a serious shot at 2h dps, get the badge axe.

Robstar
05-18-2008, 07:41 AM
Still hit harder with slams from World Breaker. Not to mention latency in both connection and human reaction times. And, as a human, I get the expertise. I just still am not sure whether or not there will be a significant difference that I should use 150 badges on, which, btw was the initial question. Any opinions from someone that is not outright "annoyingly" abrasive?
Everything you've mentioned here is absolutely irrelevant to each other.

You asked for facts, Corb gave you said facts. If Corb had said you were a completely ignorant fool and also gave you facts, then you would have the right to ignore his advice.

Blade of the Harbringers is far superior than World Breaker; 150 badges is piss easy to obtain, so stop kidding yourself that latency and human reaction times will balance out the gain from the slam damage on an inferior Mace. Bending the mathematics in a magical way behind interfaces just to motivate further criticism is not the right way to approach the subject at hand.

Taelas
05-18-2008, 08:15 AM
Also, the difference in average weapon damage is a whopping 4, in favor of the mace. So even your slams will hit virtually the same.
Ehh.

How is the average weapon damage in favor of the mace?

Am I missing something here?

Spaceknight
05-18-2008, 08:55 AM
Why is this thread still going on?

Kazeyonoma
05-19-2008, 09:36 AM
Ehh.

How is the average weapon damage in favor of the mace?

Am I missing something here?

weapon speed of mace i think?

Corbusier
05-19-2008, 04:57 PM
[top end + bottom end]/2 = avg damage

i may have done the math wrong, but i'm too lazy to check it

Pheiro
05-30-2008, 11:51 AM
Why do i get the feeling of someobdy with their fingers in their ears going "lalala i wanna pve mace" Undeniably, I was pretty stoked to get World Breaker, and for pvp as a non macesmith, it kicks some ass. But, not only is mace spec relitively uselsess in pve, the proc compared to the crit/ap on the axe makes it negligible. If your latency is high enough that the haste and weapon speed is throwing off your slam time, then pve ms may not be right for you. The blade of the Harbringers even out does the Torch from BT IMO, if nothing else, because of the greater spec options for it. Though the torch is beastial in pvp from what I understand.