PDA

View Full Version : How To Get Accepted Into Any Guild



Ariedan
04-02-2008, 01:21 AM
Introduction

With the raiding scene becoming easier to get into, people are getting more and more opportunities to experience end-game and to join better, more progressed guilds. Are you less experienced, but you know your class, and want to join a guild a little more progressed? You might think to yourself, well, I’m at a disadvantage; there are those more geared and experienced than I competing for the same spot, although I probably am a better player than they! How do you make your application stand out more?

What They Want To See

As a the recruiting officer of a raiding guild, I’ve probably seen entirely too many applications. And truth be told, people are horrible at applications. You can be exceptionally geared and/or skilled, but if it doesn’t look like you took your application seriously, people won’t take you seriously. In most situations, raiding guilds probably want someone they don’t have to spare time gearing up. But most people have the mentality that gear and progression can be easily obtained, good attitudes and intelligence cannot. When looking at applicants, people generally place effort and attitude at the top of their list. Understand that most of these people have never played with you and know little about you. Your application is the only information they have, and if you want to be accepted, it’s your job to give them the right impression of you.

Before You Apply

Read those stickies! Nearly all application forums will have one or more stickied thread explaining the guild rules, raid times, loot procedures, and application guidelines and format. Read all of it! Know what you’re getting into, and make sure this guild is what you want in a guild. Follow the directions given in the guidelines. There’s probably nothing more unattractive in an application than somebody not following directions. The stickies are there for a reason; read them.

Also, make sure you are ready to raid. No amount of intelligence is going to convince a bleeding-edge progression guild to pick up a person in all blues, or even worse, greens. Like I said before, you can’t expect them to take you seriously if you don’t don’t take yourself seriously. Grind that rep, do those heroics, do everything possible to get the best possible gear available to you. You may not have been farming the top instances for months, but that does not excuse you from having bad gear. It’s very easy to get good gear these days, so take advantage of it. Also, make you sure you have epic level gems in your gear. Enchant everything that can be enchanted, and do make sure your enchants are appropriate to your class/spec. And don’t be cheap! If you can’t afford to enchant your gear with the best-of-the-best enchants, how can a guild expect you to be able to pay for repairs on new content?

And branching off from the above paragraph, have realistic expectations. A good attitude and a lot of effort will get you far, but know a guild that’s working on the newest released content probably not going to bring a person with 10-man level gear immediately in to raid. Know which goals are achievable, and which are not.

Sell Yourself!

Like I said before, your application is the only impression they have of you. They probably have never done any instances or raiding with you, and this time in the game, it’s very easy for people to get well geared without having skill. This is where knowing how to present yourself comes in. As in all applications, video game or job, you want to bring all your positive qualities to light. How are these people supposed to know you aren’t immature and loot-centric? True, you can tell pretty lies on your application, but generally, people are quicker to recruit the person who tells them they’re positive, punctual, prepared, and skilled before someone who merely links their armory.

You need to ask yourself how you are an asset to this guild. Why should this guild recruit you over others, especially if you’re lesser geared and experienced than other applicants? Are you reliable, responsible, mature? Are you active and social beyond raids? Do you take criticism well? Do you listen to instructions well? Are you vocal in fights where communication is necessary? Do you think you’re a perfect player, that this game requires no skill, or are you the type who always watches for mistakes and is always striving for personal improvement? Is your situational awareness good? Are you motivated, a hard-worker, and enthusiastic? These are the sort of things they want to know about you. These things set you apart from other applications, so forget modesty, sell yourself!

Don’t be afraid to make things lengthy. Few people will ever respond “tl;dr!” to detailed, well written applications. In fact, the more informative, the better. Try to keep things relevant, but don’t be afraid to elaborate on why you chose your current talent build, why you itemize a certain way, what resist sets you have, that you have a good mic, or show off your theorycrafting skills a bit.

Go That Extra Mile

If your previous guild used WWS/WMO/WoL, provide a parse even if the application didn’t ask for it. Take a screenshot of your UI, even if the application doesn’t ask for it, and rationalize your mod and keybinding set-up. Be prepared to go the extra mile, it will encourage them to think you will go the extra mile as a raider as well (which you should!)

If you’re a transfer applicant, mention several ways to get in touch with you- email, instant messengers, or mention you’ll consistently check the forums for private messages. If they want you badly enough, they might make a level one on your server to chat, but giving them other means of communication shows initiative and makes things easier for them.

Make sure you log out with your raiding gear on. If you do not have a raiding spec, link the build you would use to raid with. Nothing is quicker to show a lack of preparation than an application applying to a raiding guild not ready to raid. How are they supposed to judge if you meet their standards if you’re in pvp gear?

Be sure to also plainly state you know the raid times and are not only available to make them, but you’re able to show up at least 15 minutes early for invites, and sometimes stay a little longer on progression nights if needed. Here is also the spot to mention any conflicts you will have with the schedule. Be thorough! It’s not wise to wait until after you’ve been recruited to mention you have to work on Tuesday nights.

Be prepared to explain your ability rotation, to elaborate on class specifics, or to answer several “what if?” scenarios people sometimes respond to your application asking.

And link that armory! You’d be surprised to know how many people think their name and server will suffice. Yes, it’s not that hard to open up a new window and search for you under the armory. By not linking your armory, though, you’re basically stating you’re lazy, loud and clear. That’s one of the easiest ways to get yourself denied right off.

Don't Assume Anything

Another big mistake I see in applications is that people assume a lot. Assume nothing. Even if it’s common knowledge, you’re there not to test their knowledge of the game, but to prove yours. They don’t know you or anything about how you play. I can’t stress this enough! If you have to question yourself on whether or not to elaborate or justify your knowledge, go with your gut and go with the detail.

Appearance

Appearance is just as vital as everything else provided in your application. If English isn't your strong point- even if it is- run a spell check. Try to use proper punctuation, capitalization, and full, coherent sentences. Well spoken and intelligent applications are rare, but valued just as much as your gear. It's just another part of presenting a good image to them.

Make your application look pretty! Don't leave anything blank, add spaces in between all the questions, pick a neutral color (something like blue, not.. pink or orange), and make all your application questions that color and bold it. It organizes your application, making it much easier to read. It takes a lot of time, true, but believe me, it makes you look better.

References

If you're on the same server, you'll most likely be expected to name people who can vouch for your skill and credibility. Even if they don't ask for references, it still makes you look better. Not all guilds research potential applicants, but some do, and some do it in depth. If you have a nasty background and it's well known, you might as well be upfront about it in the application, although it's recommended you not be flippant about it. "Yeah, I stole my guild bank before transferring. The noobs were totally mad, lolololol. Anyhow, I can be trusted, so can I join your guild?" And while I'm on the subject, I would not condone lying about anything, end-game experience or guild history. There are ways to find out anything in this game, so be wary about being dishonest.

If you're a transfer, you probably should still name a few references. In fact, it might be better if you do since it's sort of impossible to do trial runs with an application before transferring. Word-of-mouth (or is it keyboard?) is the easiest way to get an idea of what sort of player you are without seeing you for themselves.

Show Some Personality!

And last, but not least, don't be too serious! Show some personality. People want dedicated and reliable players, but they also want you to be fun. There's a line between making a joke every other question, but don't be afraid to throw in a humorous quip or two. They want to find people who will fit in with the other members of their guild, not some silent, bot-like player.

Questions You Should Be Prepared To Answer

I've prepared a list of common questions you might see in applications:


What is your spec and what did you choose this particular build?
What other builds have you played with? Why did you switch out of them?
Would you respec for the raid?
What are your general play times? Is there anything that would affect your availability and attentiveness during raids (work, family dinner, school, parents, etc)?
Give us a detailed description of your computer's specifications - CPU/RAM/GraphicsCard/Monitor, etc.
What sort of internet connection do you have, and how stable is it?
What do you think the strengths and weaknesses of your class are?
What is your average hours played per week?
Do you strafe, and in what situations would you strafe?
Do you turn with your mouse or keyboard?
Are you a clicker?
What's your previous guild history, and why did you leave those guilds?
What's your raid experience? Be specific, don't just say "BT."
What is your previous MMORPG gaming experience, if any?
What can you offer us? (Or "Why should we recruit you?")
What rare patterns/recipes/plans do you have for your professions that may be helpful to the guild?
What are you looking for in a guild?
Do you have Ventrilo installed? Do you own a mic? Can you talk without horrible feedback? And will you talk if communication is necessary?
What's your favorite raiding encounter?
What do you feel should/could be changed to improve your class/spec?
What resist gear sets do you have? Are you willing to farm the mats for your own resist gear?
Do you have the new pvp trinket?
How situationally aware are you?
What's the best wipe you've ever caused?
Do you use consumables in raids, and if you do, which?
Do you pvp any?
What's your role in the raid?


Before You Post That Thread...

Before you post that application, be sure to go through this check-list:


Is all your gear enchanted and gemmed correctly?
Are you in your raiding gear and raid spec'd?
Do you understand the guild's rules, and can comply with them, including raid times and DKP/loot systems?
Did you follow the application procedure correctly?
Are you available to raid/transfer immediately?
Did you proofread your application?
Is your armory linked?
Is your application clean and easily readable?
Did you answer all questions, leaving no questions blank?
Did you provide WWS parses, UI screenshots, and references?
Does your application show someone who puts effort into what they do?


Summary

In summary, if you're a good player who has put a lot of effort into his/her gear and knowing his/her class, if you're intelligent and mature, and you write a detailed, well-written application, your chances to be recruited will rise. It's all about effort.

You won't be accepted into any guild, true. Be realistic about your expectations, and you'll be successful!

Lilie
04-02-2008, 04:41 AM
This is me to a "T." I started playing this game kind of late and feel as if its been near impossible to find a solid guild that will take a prot warrior like myself. I keep plugging away and appreciate all your solid advice :). I think that's one of the reasons I've enjoyed the little TS guild so much, because I feel like I'm finally getting a chance to play with players of matching skill/interest. It's a journey, eh? Thanks again, Criss!

Domichi
04-02-2008, 06:08 AM
Very nice post Criss. While I am not currently looking to change guilds, I will keep these tips in mind should my guild part ways and/or I want to progress deeper in to 25-man content.

Trual
04-02-2008, 03:57 PM
Nice post, Criss.

This is exactly the kind of thing we're looking for when someone apps at our guild.

Tristessa
04-02-2008, 05:43 PM
I agree, it's very solid information. Nice post!

Ariedan
04-02-2008, 06:17 PM
Updated with some more things I forgot to mention.

If you think of anything that should be added, please let me know.

Ukyo
04-02-2008, 08:57 PM
God damn it, i wish i had this information before applying to that guild XD


They turned me down on having too many warriors, never stood a chance and checking my app, never sold me to get that trial invite =(

Tizack
04-02-2008, 11:10 PM
Very Nice guide to apping to any guild. thats the first step in being able to raid. getting into a well organized guild with cool people that are great players.

Groundchuck
04-03-2008, 06:24 AM
Very nice guide for all people looking for a guild. We'll actually be using this to modify our own guild application form.

Thanks.

Sardaukarr
04-03-2008, 08:18 AM
Some suggested additions:

1. Start by making a list of the things you want in a guild. Then go about finding a guild that fits those goals. If you can't find a guild that meets your needs then consider building one. (Worked for me, right Criss?)

2. The most important question you should be ready to answer is "What questions do you have for me about our guild?". Be willing to ask questions and make sure that the guild is a fit for you. Don't ask questions just to appear smart: be willing to discuss any topic you raise.

3. Go out of your way to befriend current members before you apply. For example, watch LFG for member requests and then PUG with them. Not only could this net you a reference, but it may also put you in a situation where the GUILD is actively trying to recruit YOU.

4. Keep your /gquits drama-free whenever possible. Try to keep a good relationship with your former GM and guildmates. Server raiding communities are smaller than you think, and on the older servers everybody knows everybody.

5. When applying to your top choice, let them know about it. "After doing some research I believe that PULSE is the best guild for me. I have not applied to any other guilds at this time, and will wait to hear from you before applying elsewhere."


Finally, some don'ts:

- Don't be a lacky. "I'll spec any way you tell me to and I always pass on loot."
- Don't state the obvious. "I like to raid, so I'm applying to a raiding guild."
- Don't try and get around minimum standards. "I know I'm under 18 but I'm totally mature for my age."
- Don't be ashamed of who you are. "I do okay DPS even tho LOLRET sucks for raiding."
- Don't disrespect the guild's methods. "I'd rather not interview in vent. Can we just text?"
- Don't be a jerk. "I'm a better player than most of your current members."

(Quotes are taken from actual interviewees, by the way).



Overall; awesome post, Criss!

Kazeyonoma
04-03-2008, 09:27 AM
O_o someone... out wall o texted me..

nice read though! ;D

Kaganda
04-03-2008, 09:57 AM
As a former officer, I've seen my share of good and bad applications. You are spot on with this guide, and I hope the people who read it take the advice.

Ariedan
04-03-2008, 04:41 PM
O_o someone... out wall o texted me..


Time to pass the title on!

codecreeper61
04-03-2008, 11:28 PM
Good Info to Know when looking for a guild. Only downside is , WoW is a game?
Looking at all those questions seems like a job application and in some cases could deter a lot of ppl from joining guilds.

Hypatia
04-04-2008, 12:53 AM
codecreeper61: Think of it in terms of joining an amateur sports teams, rather than a job application. Because, really, that's the closest "real world" comparison you're going to get. You're going out there, and you're going to have 24 teammates depending on your on the field, plus others cheering you on from the bench.

If you're not willing to put in the time and effort to do your best for the team, then it's very counterproductive for them to let you join.

And, in general, guilds will have more people wanting to join them than they have room for. Sometimes there'll be a void that has to be filled, but chances are good that there's competition for a given role even if the guild is actively recruiting for it.

So, yeah. It might deter a lot of people. But if somebody is deterred by it, that's not the guild for them, because they are not going to be committed enough to really contribute to even a fairly laid-back guild that's raiding in MH/BT.

If you're looking at joining a Kara/ZA/Gruul/Maggie killing guild, you can probably be pretty relaxed these days—although it depends on where that guild intends to go next. But that attitude certainly won't get you accepted into "any guild", which is what this post was about.

ScientificLee
04-04-2008, 02:28 AM
Good Info to Know when looking for a guild. Only downside is , WoW is a game?
Looking at all those questions seems like a job application and in some cases could deter a lot of ppl from joining guilds.

That is because raiding, for tanks, is like a job. The raid having to adjust to new tanks, especially The Main Tank, is something a lot of raiders don't like or do well. Also, I think the post was directed at hardcore guild.

PS: To the OP, good post. Your next post should be, "How to work your way up from Demo Shout & Thunder Clap bitch to Main Tank."

Ariedan
04-04-2008, 09:42 AM
Good Info to Know when looking for a guild. Only downside is , WoW is a game?
Looking at all those questions seems like a job application and in some cases could deter a lot of ppl from joining guilds.
Using that mentality, are you implying you take nothing about this game seriously- your gear, your class knowledge, and content knowledge? It may just be a game, but there is nothing wrong with taking something you enjoy seriously. I used to be a musician, and I took my auditions, scholarship auditions/applications, and performances seriously. It was just a hobby, not a job. My brother plays football, and he takes it just as seriously- but it's just a hobby, not a job.

Maybe it's just the sort of person I am- I'm an all-or-nothing kind of guy.. girl. I think if something isn't worth the effort, it's not worth doing at all.

veneretio
04-04-2008, 10:58 AM
Good Info to Know when looking for a guild. Only downside is , WoW is a game?
Looking at all those questions seems like a job application and in some cases could deter a lot of ppl from joining guilds.
It's called how to get accepted into any guild for a reason. She's not trying to say you can't get accepted into a guild if you don't do this stuff, but if you want to get into any guild... you bet it's going to feel like a job application.

ScientificLee
04-04-2008, 10:04 PM
Not a bad idea, actually, considering I did.

Yeah, I was being serious. I think that is the normal path that most tanks take.

Arideni
04-05-2008, 09:09 AM
Excellent article, Criss. I would like to comment on a few things, in reply to the actual article & another which prompted my interest, by Sardaukarr.


Don't overuse the pronouns (i.e. "I" - who else would the application be about?)
Don't ignore minimum requirements (such as age, etc), but don't let it keep you from applying if you meet all other requirements & are mature.
Don't talk negatively or gossip about prior guilds, friends, playmates. They could be potential guildmates, and it makes you look bad.

and finally, make sure you always know what a reference is going to say about you!

Also, in response to the person who claimed it was like a job application: the concept is the same -- to weed out inadequate candidates. In what better way, may you suggest, that this be done?

kittikat
04-05-2008, 07:11 PM
Something I actually put up on our Recruitment forums, pretty similar to what you posted, but compressed into 5 little guidelines :D

I saw this at The WOW Insider (http://www.wowinsider.com/2007/04/24/five-tips-for-guild-applications/) and thought it was quite funny, and insightful. Probably a good thing for all recruits to follow and keep in mind.


================================================== ======================

So maybe your current guild just isn't doing it for you. They're casual players and you're ready to step into something more hardcore, or you can sense some impending guild drama and want to be far away, or maybe they're like my guildmates and keep talking about wangs in guild chat for, like, half an hour. It's time to suck it up, tell them you're moving on, and then go to the realm forums and start filling out guild applications.

Despite what you may think, guild applications aren't quite as rough as job applications. They're mainly there to weed out the total idiots and incompetents. On the other hand, it's pretty easy to appear like a total idiot or incompetent, so here are some tips for your applications. Happy hunting!


1. Don't spell like a moron.
Yes, yes, it's the Internet and spelling and grammar aren't cool among the kids these days. Nevertheless, you're trying to impress these people, so at least make some effort to not type like a monkey undergoing shock treatment. Typing in all lower-case with no punctuation except for "lol" makes the guild officers think that you're going to be a nightmare to have in guild chat, and they're probably right.

2. Use the actual guild's application.
Not a generic application. Not another guild's application. ESPECIALLY not the application of the archnemesis of the guild you're applying to. This is usually an automatic disqualification -- if you can't take the time to fill out the application, how are you going to abide by the guild rules?

3. Don't flirt or post pictures.
No one cares that you're a girl. Really. No, really. They care about how well you can play. If they ask for your gender, it's okay to tell the truth, but attaching revealing pics or a link to your myspace in your application screams "In the future, I will carry on an ongoing flirtation with several guildmates that will eventually destroy the whole guild." I would assume it's also verboten for a guy to flirt and post half-naked pictures in his guild application, but honestly I would probably /ginvite that person just to watch the chaos that ensues.

4. Don't complain about your last guild.
Even if the split was really bad, just say "there were some issues about _____ and I decided to move on." An epic description of the drama in your last guild makes you look bad, and some of the officers in your wanna-be-new guild probably have friends in your old one.

5. Don't talk about what they can give you -- talk about what you can give them.
I have seen many guild applications where the reason for joining boils down to "I want to get gear and you guys are progressed!" Sure, that's probably the real reason for it, but it's considered tactless (kind of like saying "I really need some money" during a job interview.) Instead, talk about your desire to see new content, meet new people, and help your guild in new encounters. Don't mention gear at all, really.




http://www.shugashack.org/pics/wow/wowraid.jpg

Ariedan
04-05-2008, 08:06 PM
3. Don't flirt or post pictures.
No one cares that you're a girl. Really. No, really. They care about how well you can play. If they ask for your gender, it's okay to tell the truth, but attaching revealing pics or a link to your myspace in your application screams "In the future, I will carry on an ongoing flirtation with several guildmates that will eventually destroy the whole guild." I would assume it's also verboten for a guy to flirt and post half-naked pictures in his guild application, but honestly I would probably /ginvite that person just to watch the chaos that ensues.

4. Don't complain about your last guild.
Even if the split was really bad, just say "there were some issues about _____ and I decided to move on." An epic description of the drama in your last guild makes you look bad, and some of the officers in your wanna-be-new guild probably have friends in your old one.
Well said. I was tempted to post number three, but I wasn't sure if it was appropriate. Point four is right on, though.

Target2
04-06-2008, 05:58 PM
So, do you think with a good enough application I could get into a guild that has their warrior need listed as low and they have Illidan on farm?


Here's my armory: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Arthas&n=Mancowpig

Omega IV
04-08-2008, 08:15 AM
First off, let me say that this is an excellent thread and guide.

I'd like to offer one more point:

Don't ask about loot, who needs loot or how to get loot. If you want to verify aspects of a guild's loot system, fine. But I've had an app say to me (and I quote) "Oh, you guys are doing Vashj? Think I could get in, I need like 3 loots from her." And this is when we had killed her, twice I think.

darkjester332
04-25-2008, 08:23 PM
I have been playing wow for about 4 years now. I have been raiding for about 3 of those years heavily. My current guild Overwhelming Injustice is
on hiatus currently. Prior to our break I was the Druid CL for about a year. Completing all of SSC and up to last boss in TK. I have been raiding for a long time and know the ins and outs of good solid raid group. Unlike many though I have only one level 70 and no alts. I am resto Druid all the time. I know my class and spec to a perfect T . I have been healing since the start. MC BWL AQ ZG NAXX right into the new KARA SSC TK. I have been CL I have followed ..... all in all I just like to heal. I am good and I guarantee you can count on me to be topping out your healing spots. I take pride in how well I can play my druid in a raid enviorment. My mana presevation techniques are spot on and my armor backs that up. I currently have 3/5 tier 5 and all the rest of my gear is from ssc or tk. I have alchemist stone for main trinket. My weapon is the Ethereum Life-Staff off Solarion.
I love raiding! I am a bit on the quiet side on vent, I have really good friends all over the server that you all probably know in OI and Judg .. a few in Aegis. I was raiding sun-fri 7-12 before the break to give you asn idea of what I raid. I had over 90% attendance and top dkp in my class 10th overall.

The World of Warcraft Armory (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Llane&n=Darkjester)

Thats me!

I would love to see some end game at this point and I would definetly benifit your raid. I am 26 yr old bartender at Bennigens and This is what I do. I healz and I healz good.

lorelye
04-26-2008, 04:05 AM
Is that a real app, Darkjester? Interesting place to put it, but if you're checking back, we can use a resto druid:
http://bluemoo.guildhaunt.com

I have to admit, I hope nobody reads this thread. It's just so much easier on me when recruiting, if someone posts something like:
"My old guild needs 2 l2play. Plz lets me knw if you want me."
Post like that, and I just saved 30 minutes interviewing you. lol

Arrivan
04-26-2008, 04:53 AM
Is that a real app, Darkjester? Interesting place to put it, but if you're checking back, we can use a resto druid:
http://bluemoo.guildhaunt.com

I have to admit, I hope nobody reads this thread. It's just so much easier on me when recruiting, if someone posts something like:
"My old guild needs 2 l2play. Plz lets me knw if you want me."
Post like that, and I just saved 30 minutes interviewing you. lol

I wouldn't worry too much. Most of the people that would post an app the way you mentioned probably wouldn't even know this site existed :)

Arideni
04-26-2008, 06:21 AM
I think the loot issue is a very big concern. It is akin to the salary issue in real life -- well, DUH everyone knows you need money/loot, so it's irrelevant. This doesn't just apply to the items you wish you had or want, but also your current gear.

They usually ask to see your profile for a reason, and it's unnecessary to repeat that information in the middle of an application. This may sound cold, but every other Joe & SuzyQ have the capacity to obtain those same items -- you aren't special in that department. When a decision is made concerning your application, the top priorities won't include 90% of your gear. If you were the bearer for a legendary item then it may be helpful to include information pertaining to that, but only in the sense that with it came responsibility & trust.

On the contrary, if you have poor gear do not bring it up unless a profile is asked for. Make sure you are candid about why your gear is in the condition it is (presuming it is poor, otherwise do not bother). For example, if you are still wearing a green or blue item, turn it into a positive strength.

Whatever the case, do not lie. Lies are a surefire way to get weeded out & rejected before you even get chance to explain yourself. Keep your answers concise & to the point -- applications aren't given as a guideline for your personal biography.

Crommi
04-27-2008, 04:53 PM
I find it weird how often people use "Slow progress" excuse for applying into a higher tier raiding guild. That gives me an impression that you don't want to help your guild through struggles. Usually it's not even true so I do background check on every single application that has that line written on it.

When we've went from 0/6 SSC & 1/4 TK to 5/6 & 3/4 during past 24 days and I see people applying into other guilds due to "slow progress", it really makes me want to bash in some skulls...

Arideni
04-27-2008, 05:57 PM
Ask yourself, "Is it the slow progress of the guild or the slow progress of the character?" & find a truer answer.

Trilless
05-11-2008, 12:28 PM
I have started a rather small guild and I have an application that is required by all raiding members..... and naturally one of my members asked why we required an application. We are small, not well known, and wouldn't it turn off some potential people.

I thought my reasoning to him, might help some people who are also wondering....

1 - Everyone who fills out an application is saying they understand the rules we have for raiding, for passing out loot, etc. That means everyone starts on the same footing. It also allows us to "review" with someone what they agreed to if there is any confusion, and hopefully not have to repeat the same loot rules over and over at the start of each raid.

2 - If they are "too lazy" to go to our website to apply, then they are probably "too lazy" to read our guidelines, check the site for scheduled raid times, etc. If you take them in and they haven't been to your site and you ask people to sign up for raids on your site... will they ever actually sign up

3 - The VALUE I place on the applications at this point, is not the same VALUE I place on them in the future when we are raiding more progressed content. Right now, I might take just about anyone, but in the future, I may be more picky. But if everyone in the guild knows that someone has to complete an application, then it doesn't become a "new thing" or "can we just not do it for this one person" issue.

4 - A small part of guild protection - If you bothered to apply, and look at our site and our guild, then you hopefully know in part if we are a good fit for what you want to acheive. If your goal is to be killing Illidan next Sunday, joining my Kara/ZA guild today will not make you happy.

A good example of this was someone that messaged me as a "friend of a new recruit" asking about our guild. They asked me some questions that made me a little concerned about their expectations of my guild. After reading our site while filling out an app, they decided that maybe we weren't the right guild for them.

Andrenge
11-29-2008, 11:07 AM
The one thing that I have found quite often in my short time as a recruitment officer for my guild is that people do not like to fill out applications. I understand that most small guilds do not require applications to join, most end-game raiding guilds do require them. Experience has taught me that the people who do not like to fill out apps are not the raiding type of player. Very nice guide by the way.

Krashtork
12-03-2008, 09:58 AM
Yeah, if people aren't willing to fill out an app, they are generally FAR too lazy to be a succesful raider.

gryffyn
12-22-2008, 09:29 AM
With all the things that have been said about applying to a guild one more point.

When a guild asks what other guilds you have been in, be honest. Don't leave out information or the fact that you transferred over from another server. There are sites out there I can check to see where you have been and for how long.

Two things raise big red flags and the first one is guild jumping. Yes there are people who have had bad luck and seen a number of them fold just after they join, but if honestly, if they have been in eight guilds in three months that indicates either a problem getting along with people or they are a lootwhore. When I was an officer I wanted people no matter how well geared they were to be willing to stick around. My guild isn't a minor league team so you can get into one of the top ten in all of WoWdom.

Second red flag is checking these sites and look at that....LeetdpsHo just sprouted out of the ground at 80 on this server. If you came from somewhere else, please give the guilds you have been in over there.

Finally don't lie and try to keep secret you belong to two raiding guilds at once. Sooner or later you will mess up and despite server size there are a lot of people who know and talk to each other.

Rennadrel
01-05-2009, 10:47 PM
Haha don't do what I did and piss off a guild full of people who think they are better then everyone else on the server cause they cleared Wrath content in like 2 weeks, but weren't the first to kill Malygos. Not to mention they treat people like trash too, it's funny watching them get pissy every time I post in trade chat.

Loisane
03-05-2009, 08:26 PM
Very nice thread. I came here looking to see what was suggested and found something very valuable. I wasn't looking for how to submit an app. But instead, how to increase the quality of players I'm getting. I definetly got what I was looking for and more.

Kkir
03-06-2009, 11:54 AM
On the topic of "Loot is like a Salary".. I look at it slightly differently:

Grinding for $$/Mats/etc = Job
Participating in End Game Raids = Salary
Loot = Monthly Bonus

If you don't enjoy end game raiding in and of itself, and you really are looking at raiding like a job, and loot as the pay-cheque. The following impressions can be reasonably accurate:
- It's going to be hard for you to maintain interest for long periods of time.
- You'll get dismayed faster when learning new content (wipe after wipe, etc)..
- You're alot more likely to leave to another guild if you think you'll make more of a salary (ie: loot).
- You might not be any "fun" when your raid is trying something new.

anyway.. just food for thought on another way to look at end-game raiding. The really long term guilds raid because they enjoy raiding. The people that you see in a top guild that have been there for 2-3-4 years.. they're there because they enjoy it. not because they want loot.

Lassic
12-13-2009, 11:00 AM
I have started a rather small guild and I have an application that is required by all raiding members..... and naturally one of my members asked why we required an application. We are small, not well known, and wouldn't it turn off some potential people.

I thought my reasoning to him, might help some people who are also wondering....

1 - Everyone who fills out an application is saying they understand the rules we have for raiding, for passing out loot, etc. That means everyone starts on the same footing. It also allows us to "review" with someone what they agreed to if there is any confusion, and hopefully not have to repeat the same loot rules over and over at the start of each raid.

2 - If they are "too lazy" to go to our website to apply, then they are probably "too lazy" to read our guidelines, check the site for scheduled raid times, etc. If you take them in and they haven't been to your site and you ask people to sign up for raids on your site... will they ever actually sign up

3 - The VALUE I place on the applications at this point, is not the same VALUE I place on them in the future when we are raiding more progressed content. Right now, I might take just about anyone, but in the future, I may be more picky. But if everyone in the guild knows that someone has to complete an application, then it doesn't become a "new thing" or "can we just not do it for this one person" issue.

4 - A small part of guild protection - If you bothered to apply, and look at our site and our guild, then you hopefully know in part if we are a good fit for what you want to acheive. If your goal is to be killing Illidan next Sunday, joining my Kara/ZA guild today will not make you happy.

A good example of this was someone that messaged me as a "friend of a new recruit" asking about our guild. They asked me some questions that made me a little concerned about their expectations of my guild. After reading our site while filling out an app, they decided that maybe we weren't the right guild for them.

Bingo...I deal with this all the time especially since my guild is a casual guild. Well put.

Liandrus
01-06-2010, 07:06 AM
Good Info to Know when looking for a guild. Only downside is , WoW is a game?
Looking at all those questions seems like a job application and in some cases could deter a lot of ppl from joining guilds.

You need to look at it this way; applying to a guild has a lot of similarities to applying for a job:

1. A prospective employer has never met you before, there are millions of other people around that could potentially do your job and they need to have some way to gauge your effectiveness. In a guild application its made even worse because this is all over the interwebs, no face to face, no chance to shake your hand, have a chat and see your body language. And again, this is the first time they see you, there are millions of other people around that could do your job, and a raid has only got 25 spots.

2. A job interview has an element of appearance, how you are dressed and groomed, that gives an interviewer an impression of you as a person, and during the interview process they need to get to know you in a few minutes. A guild application is really the only visual measure that a guild has of what kind of player you are, apart from your voice on a Vent server, etc.

3. The world is full of lying idiots that might be trying to trick their way into a job so employers need to make sure about what they are hiring. The Internet is even fuller of even bigger idiots, drama queens, hobo's, beggars and as***les than real life who hide behind anonymity. Don't really want those in a friendly, hardcore guild.

4. If the application process scares off some players, GOOD! Therefore only the (semi?) serious guys will even bother applying.

Warsreign
01-07-2010, 06:32 PM
Most important thing I look at when reviewing an application is simply did they even bother to answer the questions. Plain and simple you show if you can follow simple instructions by reading the full question and answering it in whole. Not just partly.

rekkless64
01-08-2010, 07:43 AM
How I hate applications. They stress me out. But if you are looking for a guild out side of your current server they are nice.

Warsreign
01-09-2010, 02:47 AM
Yeah but applications are a nice tool for guilds to use to filter out and give the officers/raid leads/guild members themselves a chance to screen concerns about said individual before waisting a lot of time interviewing such a person. A responsible guild leader will take said complaints though and filter out the simple personnel grievances and see if a person is a good choice for what your looking for.

On a note as said before you learn a lot by how a person fills out an application. Do they overly try and suck up? Are they overbearing? Do they lack simple self esteem? And most importantly I can't stess this enough, can they follow basic instructions lol.

So just that little bit of info you get can go a long way into tailoring your interviewing process to make sure the concerns raised from their application are addressed and to insure you get the right people in what your looking for instead of just someone looking for a free ride or a quick stepping stone.

rekkless64
01-11-2010, 05:40 PM
Well i did not get in the guild i applied for. but some one told me that they were going to pug me and see if they like me once i fix the stuff they told. about my gear that was wrong... so i may get in in a few days... this is a good guide. And will get you in to any guild with friendly people that are not jerks. I had my gear gemed wrong... and was missing the leg enchants

Megatwan
01-12-2010, 06:15 AM
i disagree with 1, 3 & 4


add: 6. be a real person. dont tell me what i wanna hear, your gearscore or what achievments you have because i mostly dont care. can you listen, do you research strats, are you fun to play with and can you keep your head above water (which is low tide in this game nowadays)? cause id rather that, than if you have heroic t9, with hardcore achievments and youre a douche who cant adjust on the fly and/or gets emo over other ppl making mistakes.


apps have a place and are needed imo but theyre arent much more then a retard check and a formality. id rather talk to a guy about the game in general for 5m and run a heroic with him quick then him put 30m into writing an app.

Dethjonson
02-09-2010, 02:01 PM
Excellent post (Ariedan) and a lively thread. I've been in combat where people were trying to kill me in RL, but the thought of applying for a guild still makes me ill lol (part of why I am reading this thread- one shot one kill, errrrr, that is, one app one guild).

Something that should be pointed out is to do your homework before you apply. A key to success is the fit- will the guild fit you and will you fit the guild? I do the research- inspect the player, their spec, their PvP stats and mayber their acheives in game or on Armory, then check their guild on Armory and check other toons in classes I'm familiar with, check my ignore lists (yes, if I ignored them there is a VERY good reason and no I will not join a guild that has somone on my ignore list in it), check my friends list (I add social notes to identify people- "Epic cuts", "douche bag", "leet heals", "Lynne's alt") "watch" the threads on the sites I visit (Tankspot is a good one- you should check it out sometime!) for wisdom as well as as ignorance, and "listen" in chat; I will engage or "stir up" a good discussion to check someone's knowledge or maturity in public- (don't be a jerk!) If you get a chance to PUG an instance or raid, watch the playstyle, engage the players in discussion if it's appropriate (I like to start a PUG with a joke "What do you call 50 pallys in Lakeshire Lake? A bubble bath!")- not only have you given a prospective guild member or guild master a chance to see who you are- you get to see who they are. After all this you should have a good idea of the fit and if you need to fine tune yourself before you apply, or if you need to look elsewhere- a guild will not change for you, but they will expect you to change for them.

Jamesondrinker
04-05-2010, 07:44 PM
this is a good thread, there are a lot of helpful points for those new to raiding here. I've recruited for several raid guilds and i have to say one thing that really stands out is your charisma. If your fun to raid with then its not really that hard to "shape" you into a good raider. And nowadays you can gear up extremely fast, especially with old raids like uld and toc on farm. Most of the better guilds can quickly put together a fast 10 toc with only a couple of people that need any of the gear, so its becoming more about how enjoyable it is to raid with you, and less about your gear.

But please people, please please please KNOW YOUR CLASS!!! Take half an hour to read up on elitistjerks about your class. Its not hard. its not.

There are really three things we look for in a raider,
1. Know your class - I mean know about all three specs and how to gear them and how they should be played, im not saying you should know every single thing about the spec you dont even play, but you should be able to spot a horrible player of your class no matter what spec they are.
2. Have your professions - I know it sounds dumb but there are a lot of players out there that are 80 with blacksmithing at level 78 and jewel cutting at 102. It is very beneficial to have more people with maxed trade skills. You can never have too many enchanters, jewel cutters, etc.
3. Be active - If you are on a trial period in a gulid, speak!! If there is some stupid discussion going on in guild chat join in! Dont be afraid to be yourself and dont be a loaner who never says a word, everyone likes to have another personality in the guild, not just some person to call on during raid time.

One really important thing, when your raiding, you need to be involved. Say if its 25 toc on Lord Jarraxxus and whoever is assigned to interrupt the fireballs is struggling dont be afraid to throw some interrupts at him and help out. And when you do help with something like that, speak up and let everyone know that your helping. Im not saying be a dick and say "Player A sucks I had to do all his interrupts for him," im just saying let the raid leader, or the person your helping out, know that your helping out.

Anyways good thread, happy raiding all

Wrathful
06-19-2010, 06:02 PM
Very good advice. I used this as a general guide when I applied to my guild. I was not very experienced in raiding, but I knew my class and I am willing to learn and grow as a guild member. I was accepted as a trainee and have gone from an average player to a verteran player. Thank you for a very well written guide and keep up the the good work with this site, I have learned alot here, so thank you again.

luckyjack
06-26-2010, 06:28 PM
Thank you for a great thread i only wished i had joined this site and read this thread befor today, i sent off my guild application to Eu/Terokkar/Alliance/Lore the form i filled in had meny of the questions you have put, i did not anwers them in a rush as such, and i did take the time to give anwers of more that 4 words but i didnt put a hell of a lot of thought in to them i just type what i felt at the time, i didnt add links to my wowhero/wowarmory, i didnt add screen prints of my G.U.I. and to top it off i did just what i shouldnt of done "Another big mistake I see in applications is that people assume a lot" i said why i chose my Glyphs but when i got to Glyph of Totem of Wrath i put word for word "well i dont need to say why i use this glyph" so by the sounds of thing iv blown it as to a application to a new guild go's, and as my day is getting better i just seen my first The Weekly Marmot which happen to cover finding new player for you raid team, need less to say my jaw droped on the words "waist of time looking in trade" i spend a fair but of time in trade trying to find a guild that covers what i want i.e static raid team,as im not so new to wow as more i didnt really get in to in till the last 6 months iv had a hard time finding a guild on Terokkar/Alliance that takes raid as more than a 4 boss frost run and now i know why no one bothers with ppl asking in trade for a guild, im gona look in to that thing he talked about that web site for finding guilds in Weekly Marmot. so thank you Ariedan you have helped me loads and i hope that next time i send a application i full it in with the thought and time i intend to spend in the guild.

:- luckyjack

Scullz
09-02-2010, 11:06 PM
How would i go about applying to one of the awesome guilds that down everything from tank spot? I have tried and failed miserably on my own realm but then again its not the best realm out there and i would love to be in a guild were i can be "Realm First" or Top WHGS

Harmacy
09-03-2010, 12:07 AM
If you care about being the top GearScore then you don't have the mentality that top guilds are looking for.

Bovinity
09-03-2010, 08:10 AM
Yeah, see, when they're recruiting you...all they can talk about is your gear.

Once you're raiding with them, you're not supposed to care about gear anymore.

All very confusing. ;)

Thegreatme
09-03-2010, 08:19 AM
Yeah, see, when they're recruiting you...all they can talk about is your gear.
and how good/bad the application was filled out. it doesn't matter if you have the best GS in the world, if you submit a terrible application, I highly doubt you will get a trial in any decent guild. If you submit a very solid application even if your gear is slightly behind what they are looking for they are going to be more likely to give you a trial.

Squirrelnut
09-03-2010, 08:35 AM
One thing that didn't seem to be highlighted as much as it could be is persistence. If someone applies to our guild and is a bit lacking they may get a meh response initially but if they then follow any suggestions, do everything they can to improve and then continue to respond and stay positive we are fairly likely to get them an invite to see what they can do. Obviously you don't want to be the annoying stalker type but showing enough interest to really demonstrate persistence gives the impression that you really care and would potentially make a good raider since you would be likely to research fights and min/max on your own.

Scullz
09-05-2010, 08:46 PM
Yeah, see, when they're recruiting you...all they can talk about is your gear.

Once you're raiding with them, you're not supposed to care about gear anymore.

All very confusing. ;)

I wish it was that way on my realm but its seems that even the most skilled player on the realm couldn't get into any raid without a "Perfect" Wow-Heroes Gearscore, and to be honest i wouldn't care about gear if raiding was fun but it seems that all people on this realm care about is gear... im seriously contemplating realm transfer

lorelye
09-12-2010, 10:46 AM
I don't know about your realm, but all realms have gone nuts about gear score. However, I was accepted to a US top 200 guild in a 5700 gear score, which meant that I was about 3-400 points behind their other members. My advice, be clear about what you want and why you want that particular guild. After an extensive search, I was applying to the one guild that had exactly what I wanted in schedule, maturity level and progress. My application was extremely long and detailed, and I told them I was willing to wait for an opening, if they had none for my class at that time. Luckily they took me in raid, right away.

As an aside... (not responding to previous poster) I have read many many applications and posts in recruitment forums.
Top errors I see in recruitment forums are:

- "Contact me in-game." No. The guild leader is way busier than you. He doesn't have time to sit on your server or run a character to a major city and earn 30 copper to contact every potential applicant.

- "I don't want to fill out alot of guild applications, just tell me if you need me." If you can't be bothered to invest 30 minutes to write one app, which info you will copy and paste into their formats... why should they think you can be bothered to do what is necessary to raid?

- "Don't spam me guild info, if you don't need me." Yes, some people will spam without reading. But some recruiters are responding only to apps who might match, specifically regarding schedule and experience. When I'm recruiting, I don't reply to people who "don't want spam", because they're already whining, before the process has begun.

Chanze
11-04-2010, 10:10 PM
also another thing I don't think I have seen yet is if the guild has an app here only process make sure you do not apply anywhere else. One of the former guilds I was an officer in did have this rule and I spent about 2 hrs per day going through all the guilds on the server's sites and double checking the apps. If they had applied somewhere else it was an instant reject. On the gear issue with cataclysm so close when looking at the gear I only check a few things.

- Major combat ratings achieved. Hit, expertise, etc in other words do you take the time to make sure you have these key things for your class.

- Enchanted correctly - Although my first guild though my strength to my priest gloves was funny (a friend did drop by enchants while leveling his enchanting) the fact that I was a priest and had no use for it caught me some slack and some bench time, until I was in my first raid and they noticed that I had changed my enchant up to the correct one.

- Going for the correct stats - healing gear is more or less healing gear now, dps gear is dps gear, show the leader you know what gear you want by having the correct stats on your gear.

NOTolgarius
01-23-2011, 04:05 PM
This is how I get accepted to any guild of my choosing.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynVvugcl3-k

RoseFireLite
02-19-2011, 08:14 PM
A few more Questions from a guild app
1.) Why do you want to join our guild?
2.) What would your main role be in the guild?
3.) List your heroic mode experience in Cataclysm. Just the dungeons, no details.

jan1
05-03-2011, 03:48 AM
good post

Vaayne
08-06-2011, 06:15 AM
ok i read all of this and i have done a lot of this but i am a really good raider i know my class and i spend the time to get to know everything i can without doing the fights and in most cases i am better than some of the people in the best guilds on my server but i keep getting stuck with casual guilds or guilds that can only down 1 or 2 bosses and im a hardcore raider so not getting to see more bosses and not being able to raid every week makes me feel im wasting my time and money.

I have applied to really good guilds on my server but keep getting turned down because they either dont need my class even though in some cases i have did pugs with the classes in their guild and have did way better than them or they tell me i havent seen the other bosses so they dont want me because they think im not good and they dont give me a chance to prove myself

So my question for anyone that can answer it is how do i get out of being stuck in 1 or 2 boss guilds or releying on pugs that once in a lifetime down an extra boss than the guilds im in do/ or not even getting a chance to raid that week, to getting in a hardcore real progressive/ great guild that raids every week smaetime and downs bosses or may wipe a bit but still gets it down because they spend time on the fights to know them. How do i get a big good hardcore guild to give me a chance or let me join and raid with them?

Fetzie
08-06-2011, 08:21 AM
Firstly, I hope your application had more punctuation in it than your post right there because it wasn't particularly easy to read.

You need to prove to them that you are better than their raiders. WoL parses of 5 mans or random raids showing that you don'T stand in the bad stuff while doing decent damage.

Do your research as to the guilds you are applying to. Someone applying to a 5/7 heroic guild who isn't decked out in 372/378 gear probably will not be accepted (or even discussed). You might think you can keep up, but the guild leaders don't know you - for all they know you might be one of the many full epicced out 7k dps pugs you find in zul-x random heroics.

Look for baradin pugs led by guild members, if you impress them they might put a good word in for you - a recommendation from a guild member can be worth at least as much as ten WoL parses.

Quinafoi
08-06-2011, 09:06 AM
I just hope it isn't really a big fish in a small pond. One thing I hate to see is people thinking they are better than they really are because they can do everything but its their teammates holding them back or that they are strong enough simply because they are do better than those they run with today.

Simple fact of the matter is in an aweful raid and a world first raid someone will be on top of the meter. Being the big fish in the small pond doesn't mean you are necessarily ready to take on things in the ocean.

"I'm really good" is an oppinion. The problem is that's your oppinion. You need to make that the oppinion of those who would recruit you.

Vaayne
08-07-2011, 12:57 AM
yes i know i do not type right or whatever i know i suck at it im way better at verbally telling what im trying to say and its not a big fish in a pond thing i never said i was the best i only said i am better than what i have seen i do everything i can aside from fighting the bosses because i cant get to them when they rest of the group fails.

and i have tried to do all those things you said Pyrea but anytime i get into a pug hosted by those players i get comments on how good i do but when they have the chance they do not say anything about me to the guild leader or whoever looks at the apps.

i will admit that some guilds have denied me because of my typing which i find stupid i do not see how typing out answers to random questions has anything to do with me healing in a raid.

i try to get the guilds to give me a shot by like running a heroic or something to show im good but they all say the samething fill out an app and we will talk to u if ur what we are looking for

i have a lot of raiding exp and its all been healing i have never switched because its what i like doing almost every raid that has been out i have healed unless its new and i havent gotten that far i can answer ever question about healing on a priest and get it right i can show that i know how to heal but people still dont want me at least on my server

Fetzie
08-07-2011, 02:53 AM
To be perfectly honest, if I was the application officer of a semi to full blown hardcore raiding guild (I was an officer in a semi-hc guild for a while) who read through an app written like your two posts, I would probably have denied it before looking at your armory. And I'll tell you why.

Your application is the first thing the guild's recruitment team sees. It forms their first opinion of you and is the key to getting to the second stage of the application process - I'll call it "background checks". The armory check, WoL check, maybe they would ask your old guild about you if the application is not private. But they will not go through all this trouble, and sifting through somebody's armory and a WoL parse that they linked is a lot of trouble to take as when done thoroughly it can take nearly an hour of their own time (they do not get paid to do this work), is not something that they will do if your application does not impress them. And nothing impresses somebody (who probably has to handle at least 5 applications per week) less than having to read through a 400+ word document which is full of grammatical errors. It needs to be perfect. There are tools that can help you do this (when I write applications I use MS word and make liberal use of the spell checker, and let a friend proof-read it to be sure), any word processing software has a spell and grammar check (even Firefox has spell and grammar check plugins).

There really is not a single reason why your application should have any typos or missing punctuation, and I believe that so long as the applications are solid, and is error free, there is no reason to deny you out of hand.

As for getting people to vouch for you:
The day after a Baradin Hold pug, I can't remember who was in the raid and did how well. I think this is the case for most people. If you want someone to vouch for you, and they have commented on how awesome you were, talk to them directly after the boss dies and loot goes out, say something like


Hey, I was thinking about apping to your guild, do you think you could put in a good word with the recruitment officer for me?

or


Hi, I was going to apply to your guild, would you mind if I put you in as a referrer?

This alone can act as a memory jog when they see your application. Without it, chances are they will have completely forgotten about it by the time they go to bed.

Vaayne
08-07-2011, 03:20 AM
I have done all that im starting to think its just the server im on

there isnt a full blown fix the way u type thing online anywhere and so what im bad at spelling its not like that determines how i play the game (i dont get what the obession WoW players have with proper english its not like anyone ever has it perfect) i mean to deny me because i can spell a word right or i type messed up is stupid i cant help it i suck at typing its not like im stupid i graduated high school i just have a problem with typing stuff out

Fetzie
08-07-2011, 03:34 AM
What they probably think is "This guy can't even be bothered to run a spell check in Word before applying, how can we expect him to prepare for raids if he won't get the application right?"

Not being good at typing is not a good reason for submitting an error filled application. Copy-paste (or even write) it in Word, OpenOffice (a totally free version of MS Word) or whatever the Mac version of Word is called, get someone who you know whose English is good and ask them to read it through. The application is the first impression they get of you, and the impression a badly written application gives to a guild is "does not care". And believe me, that is not a good first impression.

They don't know you. All they have about you is a short piece of text telling them why you are the most awesome applicant for the slot they have ever had, and explaining why YOU should be accepted into THEIR guild. Regardless of whether they specify it or not, getting the grammar and spelling 100% correct (ok maybe one or two slips are all right) is very important. Why should they take you seriously when you are (apparently to them) not taking them seriously?

Quinafoi
08-07-2011, 09:11 AM
I actually don't find denying you because of your typing that odd either. Honestly if you're not going to put forth a serious effort in your application, why should they put forth a serious effort in considering it. I'm sorry but if you submit a hand written resume on a piece of notebook paper for a job interview, that resume is going straight into the trash.

Additionally, your language skills and your ability to represent yourself in a professional matter actually reflect on your intelligence as a person. Bad grammar and spelling just make people think you're an idiot. That's the honest truth of the matter. And their not going to recruit someone that they feel lacks intelligence.

Quinafoi
08-07-2011, 09:16 AM
You claim to do everything the guide suggests. Well have you read the section on "APPEARANCE"?

If you aren't following the guide, you have nothing to gripe about.

Quinafoi
08-07-2011, 09:24 AM
I'm going to read a guide on dieting and am just going to ignore the section of it that says I should cut back on junk food. Well I'm following most of the guide so it should work right? This is the logical approach you're taking, which is complete nonsense. You're selecting and choosing what from the guide you want to do and what you want to ignore completely invalidates your claims that following the guide doesn't help.

Vaayne
08-11-2011, 07:01 PM
ok i understand this but but i do do the spell checks and stuff for my apps im not stupid but most of the apps i have filled out only ask what contents ive done what my class specs are and stuff like that and i put it all in but i still dont get accepted and get no responce of why

Another thing is if i get into a guild that doesnt have enough people to raid or doesnt know much about fights and other things when i make a suggestion like " There is a place called tankspot that you can look up fights on" or " well instead of trying to get people that are super geared andready for raids why don't we look at getting people that just hit 85 and need to do heroics and help them get geared " i get kicked from the guild i make them at the right times like guild meetings/ when an officer or GM isnt doing something and i always wait until i have been in the guild for more than a few weeks but i still get kicked with no reason why

Quinafoi
08-11-2011, 07:26 PM
If I were hired to an entry level position in a new company and stand up during a corporate office meeting to tell the CEO how I feel the company should be run, I wouldn't be surprised to have a box waiting for me the when I got back to my desk. I think you just learned a lesson about the real world.

At this point though I think I'll mark you up as a lost cause since you won't even apply yourself to following the advice in your repeated posts here. You can't even put forth an effort to improve your representation of yourself here on a small scale by applying what you learned.

Vaayne
08-16-2011, 04:00 AM
I fully understand that trying to give advice when i have only been there a few days/weeks is stupid,and I am not talking about doing that. I am talking about when I have been in a guild for months I suggest and get kicked, and I don't understand why. I think that if I have been there for a few months raiding showing up on time and other stuff I should be able to voice my opinion, and if I have been in a guild for that long how is it right that someone that never shows and or doesn't get online for awhile should be an officer and not me. It seems to me that unless you are a real life friend or are not with a guild for 2 or 3 expansions your not allowed to work your way up.

So my questions are if I am applying myself to run with people of the guild I'm trying to get in, and trying to talk to them and get the people I run with to say something about me. I do fill out apps. like I should so as to not sound like a retard and the guild leader says I have been informed you are a good player, and I prove in in a guild raid where I get pugged in. Why am i still not getting invited?

My 2nd question is if I am showing more effort in a guild to help guild members out, show up for raids and be ready for them, and give to the guild bank (when I know I will not get it back and that it will not go to the guild just into an officer or guild leaders pocket). Why am I not getting promoted when I have been in the guild for 2 months or more and still the lowest rank even though I let the guild use my vent and the guild leader and officers say everyone has a chance to work their way up?

Fetzie
08-16-2011, 04:18 AM
Maybe it is the way that you are giving the advice?

As for the promotion thing: becoming an officer is something that you personally don't have much say in. It usually simply boils down to the officers deciding that since you have been in the guild for a long time (a lot longer than 2 months) and have earned the rank (this doesn't usually mean "has donated a lot to the GBank"). By "lowest" rank do you mean trial rank or normal raider? It is perfectly normal to be a "normal raider" for years before becoming an officer. Look at the officer rank as the equivalent of the executive board of a business; you won't be appointed to it after a couple of months in the business.

Vaayne
08-18-2011, 12:01 AM
I only give advice when their ask if anyone has any, and I do it like everyone else does and a lot of people agree with me. I don't know I guess the guilds I have been in think that if everyone is agreeing with me then I'm a treat?

As for promotion I'm talking about I come in 2-6 months later after showing up for raids being ready by having food flasks and other things which the guild for some reason when its level 25 doesn't supply to its raiders, make sure I am doing anything I can to help the guild I still stay at the rank I joined at what u would call the trial rank. I wouldn't mind it so much but I feel if I'm there every raid day and ready using my own gold I should have earned the promotion even more so when I'm the top dps/DD on the meters , and I don't do stupid stuff. The other thing that bothers me is people that have been in the guild less time than I have get promoted to raider rank and get to use the guild bank stuff that I put in there and the guild repair for raid wipes and I can't.

If I am doing more than everyone else is in everyway why am I not getting any rewards for it? Should I just stop trying and maybe then i will get promoted? I don't want to find a new guild because then ill be set back with my rep. and since I know I won't find a better guild set back in progress

Edd13Mac
08-22-2011, 09:20 PM
Vaayne, I understand your situation and sympathize with you somewhat, but at the same time you must realize that everything that Quinafoi and Pyrea have said here is correct. Also, they said these things in an attempt to help you, so take it for what it is; help. If you want to raid with a certain guild or group, and they have certain requirements that you don't meet, then you cannot expect to get in. If you apply somewhere, and the first thing on the application says "Please type in an easy-to-read format, ie using proper English and punctuation" and your response is "well that's stupid, I'm not doing that", then you, ironically, are being stupid. That being said, even proper typing isn't everything, allow me to explain my past scenario;

I was in your position (or at least what you describe your position to be) and ended up just giving up on applying to guilds. The most common thing stated about me (at the time) was that I was either "not geared enough" or "did not have enough heroic mode experience." I was at the time 12/12 normal, and only 2/13 heroic.

The statement on gear was likely reflected due to my melee weapon being a 353 (Jindo's Verdict) which I got as soon as the new ZA became available. Luck on loot did not seem to favor me in regards to Halfus. (22 total kills and counting) and so I suffer the consequences. The rest of my gear was 359 with a few 372's.

In regards to my heroic mode experience, I had only downed Atramedes and Halfus on Heroic difficulty, though I knew via studying strategy videos and guides almost all of the fights. That being said, experience will always trump studying, so that doesn't count for much, and when your group starts to wipe to the most deadly boss in the game (the attendance boss) you are essentially left with no serious options. Last resorts are to try to PuG Heroic Modes, but on a server with only 3000 horde players, it was not realistic.

Since about a month ago I have given up altogether on trying to get into serious raiding guilds, and have xferred to a higher population server with hopes that the player base here will be more skilled, and thus make it easier for me to PuG raids. I have accepted the common rule that top end guilds are only recruiting players from other top end guilds or incredibly lucky (and also skilled) players who happen to know the right person/people.

At this moment in time the only chance I see of me killing Heroic Ragnaros is if I pug into something with a player from a top end guild on my server and perform as I always do; then hope that they notice and then ask them to put in a good word for me (if that guild is one I wish to apply to) which was stated before by both Pyrea and Quinafoi for you to try.

Realistically speaking though, the odds of this working are minimal. My plans at this point are to either 1. Get into serious raiding by a stroke of luck, since that is what I wish to do and why I play this game, or 2. Just quit the game in December/January and switch over to something else.

I put a lot of time and effort into my character(s) with both trying to get optimal gear, keeping up with how to min/max their talents/rotation/reforges, and looking up numerous fights and analyzing/planning what cd's to use when. I simply want to be around other players who do the same, but if that is not happening, then why play?

Just something for you to think about, and maybe scroll back up to those other numerous posts and rethink what they wrote to you.

Loganisis
08-22-2011, 10:12 PM
I know the title says 'get into any guild' but it was also published in 2008, before Wrath, when gearscore changed the world (and not in a good way).

There are guilds now that only want to grab new applicants who are making a minor upgrade or side grade, or who are being poached from a better progressed guild that's stalled.

However, these guilds are typically easy to spot: "Always looking for exceptionally geared players". If you see that, it's probably a waste to apply if you're not at that level of gear.

Another key is timing. If you are not as progressed as others, looking for guilds that have just had major turn over (later in a patch when progression has stalled and attendence is lagging) is an optimal time to apply.

It's antedotcal, but when I applied to my current guild, I was 2/12 (magmaw, halifus) - and the guild I applied to was 4/13 hardmode. So I have a hard time believing anyone when they say they can't get into other guilds. I think I didn't even have a raid drop (maybe 1?). Everything I had that wasn't blue was crafted/archeology/rep.

How did I do it?

1. I researched the guilds - I looked at the personality of the guilds as much as I could - seeing what their comments were to new applicants in the public application forums. I looked for ones I would come across personality wise as a good fit.

2. I spent 2 weeks reading their questions for ALL applicants. What kinds of questions did they ask, were there any keys? And I read every warrior app I could find. It was almost cheating - answering the questions they ask before they asked it.

3. I committed myself to getting in, so I polished my app. It was something like 4 pages long. I spell checked it and grammar checked it in Word ahead of time. A lot of work? Yes. Overkill? No. I had decided I wanted to be in a more progression centric guild and I put in the time to make it happen. How many hours did I save putting a couple into the app so I didn't have to spend hours suffering through ODS/V&T wipes? I saved a lot.

Basically: Pick the guilds that look open to quality, not gear. Pick the right time. Go over the top in the app. Don't be wordy, but be complete and don't make the mistakes others make.

****

This thread really isn't the place for it, so I wouldn't recommend posting it here, but in the general guild, or Halp! forums, post a link to any public applications you have so people can offer suggestions.

****

And finally - whatever you choose. To try to app more, to quit, or to server transfer, they're all valid. I wish you luck in finding a guild to move to, and I know you'll receive constructive comments if you post previous apps for comments.

Vaayne
08-23-2011, 05:21 AM
These are very good things to say, but I have been through them all I have better gear than some people in the guilds I'm applying to that are on their core groups. I am a better player than some of them and I have done a lot more work than they have. I also have the same amount of bosses down as they do or I'm only 1 or 2 behind.

I am starting to think that with the way people are treating the game now I might as well stop playing. I mean look at Lore's PST for this week he states in there that this is a game to have fun playing, but really who has fun playing the game anymore if you cant really play it.

I mean 1 or 2 bosses then end for PuGs is not my idea of fun being cussed out in trade chat when looking for a guild or someone to make something for me just because someone wants to be a d bag isn't fun guilds that I prove I'm better than some of there players dragging my name through the mud just because they are little kids that can't admit they failed or are bad so that I can't get in any guild is not fun.

So here is a question when does a game become more important to shit talk everyone and make it 10x harder for someone else to play than to just play the game?

When is it more important to make money on the game than to keep it where people want to play by banning these people?

When is it time to say the game has gone to hell at least from my stand point since I can't afford a xfer and have to either level a new character and start all over grinding gear instead of doing what I want to do and quit playing?

Also i know this is never going to happen but I would really like Lore to tell me how he can justify the words its a game you are supposed to have fun and world of warcraft in the same lines because from my stand point the game is bad because of the people and i have a feeling at least 1/4 of the 9k people leaveing is becasue of the same reason

Quinafoi
08-23-2011, 07:41 AM
I can understand quite clearly why your applications are denied or you end up removed from the group. And I guess since all you can ever understand is what is important to yourself you can't understand other people. I'd tell you your problem is with your attitude, but honestly we've all already determined that you are unwilling to change and demand the rest of the world to change for you. Any continued discussion is just a waste of time. How many psychologists does it take to change a lightbulb? Only one, but the lightbulb has to want to change.

In any case if you're going to quit the game, quit. This forum isn't for QQ or whining. I'm willing to bet over 75% of the 900,000 accounts that were canceled are because of the player not having fun because that's the whole concept of a game. You're not going to continue paying for a product that fails to deliver for you. Only a small portion of cancelations would fall into other situations such as personal finance or life change events where a person cancels the account out of necessity rather than desire. In the same regard, over 10 million continue to pay, and just like the number one reason for cancelations would be a lack of enjoyment, the number one reason for retention is also enjoyment. Different people have different tastes. If you aren't having fun anymore, that doesn't have any impact on whether someone else is or isn't.

You are a lost cause.

Exiledknight
09-04-2011, 12:39 AM
Being a GM of a top 200 25 man guild I think there may be one part of insight others haven't touched on. It seems like all you are looking is on your own server, what is your reputation? I know for one there are a handful of players I would never touch with a 20 foot pole because of things they have done to forge their reputations. If you have forged one of those then no you will not get into any guild that is at the top of HM raiding because they can all be picky about who they accept.

The second thing is attitude, I recently failed a trial, this trial came in and performed great, top 3 in most fights for melee dps(top 10 overall usually) they didn't fail too often and for the most part picked up mechanics quicker than most. However pretty much no one in the guild liked them, they were a know it all, had an opinion on everything, and everyone was wrong but them. Why would I want that in my guild and raid enviroment? It's not always about performance when you are a guild that has a plethora of choices on the trial front, and that is something to keep in mind. Also how often are you asking about loot? That is a big turn off as well, and a few trials who were borderline and we had to spend a good amount of time discussing ultimately failed due to that(not the biggest reason, just one of a few). I would look at your actions, because if the performance is where you say it is, the above reasons are why you got kicked, and most likely why you can not get into any of the guilds you want.

Ericastar
05-12-2012, 01:31 AM
Very nice post, everything that an applicant need to see before making a decent application.

Ltranger
04-05-2013, 07:13 AM
Sorry for bumping an old post, but I felt it necessary to respond after Vaayne complaining about not getting promoted. I've know my current gm and co-gm for roughly 6 years, and have been in the guild with them roughly 4 out of those 6, and the highest rank I accrued was raider. I was (back in wrath naxx) one of the top 50 holy paladins on my server, and I still didn't get a promo. Frankly I could care less about being an officer mainly because I don't want to deal with all of the bs/inviting/promoting/kicking etc, and I don't have the time. If it were given to me, i would make sure I did the best job I could, but I haven't been asked to yet. Granted I don't for see it happening anytime soon, but that's no reason to QQ. Some people amaze me.