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Tristessa
03-17-2008, 07:35 PM
Two Protection Paladins have recently joined my guild. They are more than happy to tank and would like to participate in Karazhan. Now, I'm assuming that because of the Tankadin threat mechanics that they will need to maintank most if not all the encounters to maximize their usefulness in the raid.

Three questions:
1. will they be able to successfully tank all the Karazhan bosses with no problems?
2. are there any situations, whether it be trash mobs or bosses, where they will have difficulty tanking?
3. gear-wise, is my guildie (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Nagrand&n=Pahn) potentially able to tank Prince and Nightbane successfully?

I'm the guildmaster and main tank and have always been in the raid during successful Nightbane, Netherspite and Prince fights.

Iloyd
03-17-2008, 07:44 PM
nightbane he might have some difficulty due to fears, however if he has adequate threat or fear ward there will be no problem.

maiden silences every 2 seconds for 1 second, so it is unlike he will be able to continually keep threat on her.

His gear is fine however he should adjust his spec some to include the 5% parry, his avoidance is WAY too low.

His boots are garbage. Flesh Beasts Metal Greaves are better.

Klimpen
03-17-2008, 07:45 PM
He should be fine.

That being said, there are some significant changes that I would personally make to his gear-setup.

1) Get a +damage weapon. Seriously, you're throwing away threat if you don't have one.
2) Don't socket MP/5, AP, Str or Spell Penetration gems. They're useless.
3) Don't wear Str gear. It's useless.
4) Replace the +Healing boots asap.

Actually, just get him to go over to maintakadin and read up on gearing theory.

Klimpen
03-17-2008, 07:48 PM
maiden silences every second for half a second.

Fix'd.

If he is at all compatent, he should be able to hold aggro, with a little difficulty. [I usually see a 10-15% drop in threat].

Nicki
03-17-2008, 07:55 PM
Right

hree questions (and answers now :p):
1. will they be able to successfully tank all the Karazhan bosses with no problems?

Yes aslong as they meet EH minimums and for nightbane either you can do him in 1 fear per ground phase or have a priest its a bit tricky but using BoP and Bubble he can avoid one fear per ground phase.
2. are there any situations, whether it be trash mobs or bosses, where they will have difficulty tanking?

The mana drain trash can be a problem as our taunt costs mana and has a long CD..this is the trash before curator and they need to watch out for the spell thieves -.- they have dispelled my righteous fury (defensive stance) several times. Other than that nightbane but he is doable just takes more concentration i find...i call it bubble dancing using a /stopcasting /cancelaura divineshield /cancelaura blessing of protection /cast exorcism macro avoids one fear per ground phase as long as you go BoP ->divine shield...

3. gear-wise, is my guildie potentially able to tank Prince and Nightbane successfully?

Nope...sorry:
1. Talent spec needs to be atleast 10 in retribution for 5% parry
2. They need 102.4% avoidance with holy shield up, they have 87.4. Missing anticipation and deflection are huge hits.
3. EH requirements are fine howerver gearing is not up to scratch, I highly reckommend they get tank points and try figure out how to make the number go to 0 for uncrush...
4. Spell damage weapon when he can...im not sure if the healing boots are intentional and the gemming is atrocius (aka get him to read this site)

Sorry :x

Nicki
03-17-2008, 07:58 PM
gah i tank maiden with 4/5 T4 but im miles ahead of the dps in most cases =\ so no worries...its just spamming buttons and priorities e.g. holy shield ->Conc->JOR->SOR... like any warrior rotation would prioritise certain abilities...you can do a near perfect rotation on maiden.. ;x

Shakes
03-17-2008, 09:45 PM
Do it? Once they have all the Kara gear they'll be able to solo tank it. I think at least half of my guild's first kills in Kara were with a Paladin main tank too (before the buffs to their health) simply because our best tank happened to be a paladin.

But like people said, you need to get him to read a few guides and sort the gear/spec issues out. That'll hold him back more than any encounter mechanics.

Tristessa
03-17-2008, 10:56 PM
Thanks for the replies, everyone--this just saved us a few wipes. =p

From my calculations, he has 51.09% avoidance (his current dodge + parry + block + miss). Add 35.33% from Holy Shield and Libram of Repentance, that's 86.42%--which means he needs to stack about 15.98% avoidance to become uncrushable.

If he takes the 5% Deflection talent, then that's 10.98%.

Was this working correct? I can't remember off the top of my head if 102.4% includes the boss mob's chance to miss (and that WAS 5%, wasn't it?) since I'm at work.

Nicki
03-18-2008, 07:38 AM
dont forget anticipation which is a whoping 20 defense skill 3.2% total avoidance..

bigdaddygamebot
06-09-2008, 07:30 AM
I'm a prot-spec'd tank and I just solo tanked Kara on the weekend.

Maiden really isn't a problem if you're paying attention and I also needed to spam cleanse while still maintaining aggro on the big girl.

Fears from Nightbane are a pain but if the people in your raid actually LOOK at Omen instead of simply having it up...then yes, a prot tank can down Nightbane.

Infact...I've brought down Nightbane every time I've gone up against him, fears and all. If you have a good aggro lead then the Fear is more of an annoyance than a raid-wiper. I pop Moroes Pocket Watch or Dabiri's enigma to help with keeping me a bit safer while repositioning Nightbane after the fear. If your heals are solid (not great but solid) and if your DPS is smart and respects the aggro process that a prot-pally needs to go through...you're fine.

Prince...bah. I KNOW I can drop the guy. I just haven't due to some bad luck with infernals dropping. It drives me crazy. Phase 2 is a bit rough because I still have about a 2 to 4% chance to get popped with crushing blows but you can heal through it and if you have a Judgement of Light on Prince, that helps a little bit. If you're REALLY worried about damage you can Judge Light and have a Seal of Light up. Just make sure you have a solid threat lead but unless you're goldbricking through all of Phase 1, you should have a good lead. I get crushed the odd time for about 7K which gives my healers hissy fits but we power through and we get him down close...REAL close. Like 8% close. Then an infernal lands in the wrong place, we don't adjust properly and kaboom. It all falls apart.

Breaks my heart it does.

Netherspite is awkward without two tanks but it's doable.

Illhoof can go easy as pie or turn into a complete cluster-f**K and it all depends on the composition of the raid group. You can definitely have a prot-pally main tank.

The biggest hurdle is that DPS and Heals know the differences between a warrior tank and a paladin tank. Even though they both get you the same results, the processes of the two are completely different from one another.