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Aegiskan
02-26-2008, 10:15 AM
Hi,
I was tanking Nightbane for the first time last week and caused a wipe. I was thinking i was geared enough to tank him fine but the raid leader remplaced me by a prot pally. The raid leader, who is also the guild leader, told me to work on avoidance and armor because he noticed I was socketing only in stamina gems.

My character name is Aegiskan, on sister of elune if you wish to inspect me and tell me what I'm doing wrong. I've resocketed my gear in order to get the item bonus but I used to have 14k hp unbuffed, 16.3k armor, ~38% avoidance and 22% shield block when socketing in stamina gems and nothing else.

Thank you !

-Aegiskan

(I may be in dps gear, I'll change that as soon as I can if you want to inspect me)

Brucimus
02-26-2008, 10:23 AM
did this prot pally able to tank Nightbane successfully? i can't check your armory now because its not working ...but i suggest getting a stance dance macro to help you deal with the fears.

Aegiskan
02-26-2008, 10:27 AM
did this prot pally able to tank Nightbane successfully? i can't check your armory now because its not working ...but i suggest getting a stance dance macro to help you deal with the fears.

Yes, he tanked it succesfully. He his decked out in epic and he's tanking karazhan for some time now. The fear was not the problem, I was taking too much damage for the healers to keep up. We had a new healer in the run, but since we had 2 other healers in epic I don't think he was the problem.

Tatt
02-26-2008, 10:28 AM
Armory isn't up, but only thing even remotely annoying about this fight is timing the fears. I;m not great on stance dancing, but if someone in your raid has deadly boss mods, you will get a FEAR SOON warning, at that point I go to berserker stance, and when the FEAR warning hits, I hit berserker rage. As long as you have enough aggro built up on him you will be fine in berserker stance for a few seconds heroic striking him. Only thing I can see the pally having an advantage over you is aoe tanking all the skeles for the airborne phases. Make sure you have him positioned correctly as well, facing perpendicular to the wall with your back to the wall. Should be fine.

Aegiskan
02-26-2008, 10:35 AM
Armory isn't up, but only thing even remotely annoying about this fight is timing the fears. I;m not great on stance dancing, but if someone in your raid has deadly boss mods, you will get a FEAR SOON warning, at that point I go to berserker stance, and when the FEAR warning hits, I hit berserker rage. As long as you have enough aggro built up on him you will be fine in berserker stance for a few seconds heroic striking him. Only thing I can see the pally having an advantage over you is aoe tanking all the skeles for the airborne phases. Make sure you have him positioned correctly as well, facing perpendicular to the wall with your back to the wall. Should be fine.

I also have a boss mod. I was thinking the gear/stats were the problem, am I right?

Tatt
02-26-2008, 10:37 AM
I am MTing nightbane once a week, I have 15,700hp unbuffed...16,300 armor...16 dodge...17 parry..22 block, and as long as I don't screw up the fears its an easy fight. I know I need to improve my avoidance, but for that fight its mroe about positioning and timing, I don't think he hits ridiculously hard, so I would rather EH than try to avoid a blow personally.

Brucimus
02-26-2008, 10:39 AM
probably....if you can tank Prince Malchy you can tank Nightbane.

Dont listen to your guild leader ...stack stam/armor and fit in avoidance where you can fit it in

I was once an avoidance tank but then i came to tankspot and i learned about EH and now im sold.

Aegiskan
02-26-2008, 10:41 AM
I am MTing nightbane once a week, I have 15,700hp unbuffed...16,300 armor...16 dodge...17 parry..22 block, and as long as I don't screw up the fears its an easy fight. I know I need to improve my avoidance, but for that fight its mroe about positioning and timing, I don't think he hits ridiculously hard, so I would rather EH than try to avoid a blow personally.

Alright thanks ! It might have been a strings of bad luck. I was proud of my 14k hp and I think I will resocket in order to reach the most possible EH.

Ruminator
02-26-2008, 11:59 AM
It's not you. It's your healers. Gear EH, you'll be doing your job. They need to do theirs better.

edit: you might want to consider some more consumables if it's really a problem. I was tanking NB with no problems at all at the same stat level you're talking about. Ironshield, scrolls, etc etc, if they still can't keep up.

mattdeeze
02-26-2008, 12:10 PM
Its likely that you were unfortunate enough to get scorched earth spawned where you were tanking him. not too much you can do about it. Your 14K should be good as long as your healers are on thier toes. and not reactive healing. And of course it takes a bit of luck with the Locations of the Scorched Earth. And burn Greater Stoneshield Potions

ebs2002
02-26-2008, 12:25 PM
I had tanked Nightbane without issue for three weeks in a row, and this past week I was two-rounded at the very start of the fight (I was late on getting shield block up when he landed and took two crushings to the tune of 6600 and 6900. We didn't have a priest, so I was below 16k HP).

It's possible that you missed a shield block (at the start of the fight, perhaps?). I have gotten in the habit of always bloodrage+shield block now right before Nightbane lands.

At 14khp/16.3k armor, you should be fine. And your raid leader/guild leader is a moron for telling you to socket in avoidance :-p (assuming you're over 490def)

Khatia
02-26-2008, 01:45 PM
I agree whole heartedly with the consumables (ironshield pots are yummy), watch for charred earth, don't get crushed tips.
The point I'd like to add is try to be proactive thinking about when you might take a burst of dmg that your healers may not be ready for and use skills/consumables to help them out. For example whenever he's landing your healers may still be worrying about skellies or be out of position or whatever, so to be safe you can burn the pocket watch or something similar to give them a chance to get in position (or be ready with a nightmare seed or last stand). Nightbane just seems to have great burst potential with his fire attack, cleave, normal hit combination (and charred earth) so helping the healers while they learn their role is clutch. After that it's just a matter of teaching them how to heal against hard hitters/mobs with burst potential/mobs with silence effects.

AlmtyBob
02-26-2008, 01:49 PM
You're saved in your PvP gear so it's hard to tell from gear alone. 14k unbuffed is nice but is nearing the minimum you need before luck will be too much of a factor. Make sure you zoom out and spin your camera around to the side for two reasons. When you're low on health you can see the healers and if they're having some sort of issue like moving out of scorched earth, etc. This will help you know if you need to start popping healthstone/Last Stand/Shield Wall or if you should just wait for the heal. You'll also be able to see if you're in the scorched earth. It's vital if you're in it you get out immediately without going so far as to open your melee up to cone damage or tail swipes and your ranged to fear.

Devarin
02-26-2008, 02:20 PM
It may be less a problem of gear and more of what you're using when. Make sure you have your shield block up at all times and stay out of the scorched earths. Stance dancing is a must (use a zerker rage macro) and make sure you point him straight out towards the ledge rather than angled towards anyone (if he's not positioned straight, one of your melee DPS might eat a tail lash). Other than that, I'd say that your healing corp isn't coordinated enough to keep you up (could be from other people standing in too many scorched earths, or something else).

Bigstik
02-26-2008, 03:17 PM
Your guild leader needs to come read up on tanks and know that people in blues tank Nightbane all the time. I did, and I'm sure many others have as well. Socket Solid Stars and slot solid healers, imo.

Ruminator
02-26-2008, 04:20 PM
It's been my experience (lucky?) that I don't ever get charred earth under me while tanking if nobody is close to me - they are also careful when switching sides due to a charred earth to run through/behind him instead of through/in front of him (since the cleave is much worse). The only times I've had it under me are when some melee is right next to me.

Also, I didn't really think about the shield block thing since I guess I just take it for granted: you need to have it up ALL THE TIME (unless you're not in much danger of dying ever, but you are currently). He's such a slow hitter that it's super rare he crushes me. Watch your rage carefully to make sure there will always be enough for SB when the cooldown is up. Also, I try and pop a fresh SB right before stance dancing (though, it's not always possible - it's easily done most of the time), since it's easy to take a hit + cleave instantly after his fear goes off.

One other thing I do, since his fear isn't up for at least 30 secs after landing, I dance then bloodrage right before his initial landing. This gives you a good bit of extra rage generation for the first few secs, and lets the dps cut loose earlier. Also, if you have the skeleton situation well under control without your participation - you can melee him *while he's flying* during the skeleton phase. This is a very easy way to get a full rage bar before he lands, and if you're meleeing the whole time (he's too far to use special abilities, but autoattack hits just fine from the balcony), you will probably save the life of that warlock who left a fresh curse of doom on him right before he took off.

In all likelihood, they just need to heal you better.

Aegiskan
02-26-2008, 04:46 PM
Thanks for all the good tips !
Bloodrage+Shield block in the beginning of the fight might have helped me, that may be where I failed.

Armory should be up to date now and my gear are resocketed into 12 stam already.

Zapporius
03-10-2008, 08:04 PM
I tanked Nightbane @ 13.5K health, 14.5K armor, 520 def and 18.5% dodge, 16% parry, 20% block. I had to use last stand at one point, but so far it was 2 runs of 1 shotting him.

Your raid leader is clearly overreacting, he doesn't hit very fast, so your shield block should compensate for a lot of it (keep it up at all time). Also keep refreshing TC and demo shout, and it should be fine.

We had no real issues except ocassional rogue going wrong way during fear and getting ganked.

As for rage, at my gear level I had rage bar refilling very fast to full, so I could use stuff almost at every cooldown available.

Rayne
03-10-2008, 10:36 PM
Well, a WWS log with the OP tanking might prove illuminating. It's not just about the gear, not even just timing the fears. Was Shield Block kept off cooldown? Did he TC and DS? His gear is a lot better than mine was the first time I tanked NB as a Warrior (I still haven't seen 3 of the drops he has on this character) so either he's getting crushed or his healers aren't up to the challenge.

Cipher
03-11-2008, 12:08 PM
Your gear is fine. I suspect that maybe you missed a shield block or your healer were asleep. I healed tanks in mostly blue gear for NB and as long as they do all their mitigation moves (SB, DS etc), they have no problems surviving. Perhaps a badly timed fear did you in as sometimes all the healers get feared and you have no incoming heals. When I tank I always have a heal pot and health stone ready to go and well as last stand.