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Satrina
02-25-2008, 09:30 AM
A continuation of http://www.theoryspot.com/forums/theory-articles/33264-tank-questions-thread.html

2.4 is upon us and we've seen a few changes and new things in the game so that what was conventional wisdom then and what is conventional wisdom now are not necessarily the same. Same setup:


I am pretty confident I can answer all those questions correctly. But maybe I'm wrong. Like most everyone else here, we are here to learn.

Excellent point. The answer to all of these is found here in these forums (though this has more subjective questions than the original). So, I'll turn them over to the community to answer and discuss. I expect that will be a much better learning experience than just parroting the answers out.

1) What consumables would you bring as a tank to a raid, and why, for:
a) Farm content?
b) Progression content?

2) Which of the following are true?
a) When you parry your opponent's attack, your swing timer is reduced slightly

(edit for clarity: that is, time until your next swing is reduced)
b) 25% block chance is needed to be uncrushable with Shield Block up
c) Stacking defense past 490 skill is a bad idea
d) 500 defense makes you uncrushable
e) Devastate replaces Sunder Armour
f) You can combine defense and resilience to become immune to critical hits

3) A rogue pulls aggro from you during trash clearing. What do you do?

4) Given access to +15 agility, +2% threat, +10 stamina, or +240 armour, which would you put on Royal Gauntlets of Silvermoon? On Iron Gauntlets of the Maiden? Why?

5) What is the significance of the numbers 490 and 102.4?

6) Is expertise useful to a tank? Why?

7) Compare The Sun Eater and Warp-Storm Warblade as tanking weapons

8) Compare Improved Heroic Strike, Improved Defensive Stance, and Cruelty as tanking talents.

9) How would you gear for a boss that has a slow swing speed but hits hard, and does a raid-wide 5000 damage attack every 10 seconds?

10) How can a tank increase maximum threat output?

loquatious
02-25-2008, 10:06 AM
1) What consumables would you bring as a tank to a raid, and why, for:
a) Farm content? Crayfish, heal pots, Spicy Hot Talbuk - focus is on Aggro and saving a buck or two
b) Progression content? Flask of Fortification, Agi Elixer, Ironshield Pots, Nightmmare seeds, Heal Pots, Mighty rage pots, Crayfish, Spicy Hot Talbuk, Prot V Scrolls. Focus is on Surviving and handling low heal situations.

2) Which of the following are true?
a) When you parry your opponent's attack, your swing timer is reduced slightly (T)
b) 25% block chance is needed to be uncrushable with Shield Block up (For warriors T)
c) Stacking defense past 490 skill is a bad idea - sort of T - given the superb stats available from non Def gear you can do better with stam/expertise/hit than continue to stack Def. Exceptions are building a crush immune set, or an avoidance set for the fast bosses that can get past the 3charges of the shield block.
d) 500 defense makes you uncrushable (F)
e) Devastate replaces Sunder Armour (T)
f) You can combine defense and resilience to become immune to critical hits (T esp with S2 Vegeful Gladiators Shield wall)

3) A rogue pulls aggro from you during trash clearing. What do you do?
If its an ongoing problem do Nothing its a cheap lesson in Aggro Management
But taunt / stun / shield bash / mocking blow are the obvious ways to save him.

4) Given access to +15 agility, +2% threat, +10 stamina, or +240 armour, which would you put on Royal Gauntlets of Silvermoon? On Iron Gauntlets of the Maiden? Why?
Agi on Silvelmoon - it enhances a piece of avoidance gear
+2% threat enhances the shield block value / threat set

5) What is the significance of the numbers 490 and 102.4?
warrior defense required for crit immunity for lvl 73 mobs

6) Is expertise useful to a tank? Why?
More attacks hit (reducest parry /dodge) and boosts aggro 2x compared to +hit until the parry cap is hit - and equivalent to +hit after.

Reduced parry by bosses reduces the incoming damage from parry/swing timer mechanic.

7) Compare The Sun Eater and Warp-Storm Warblade as tanking weapons
Different weapons are tools for different tanking jobs. Simply put
Weapon DPS = suprisingly minor impact to aggro since white damage is the source of perhaps 1/3 of our aggro.
Stam = survivability
Speed = faster weapons generate threat better when spamming heroic strike, slower weapons generate more threat from Devasate.
Def/dodge/parry = avoidance
Hit = aggro
Expertise = aggro/damage reduction.

Sun eater is probably the best avoidance tanknig weapon in the game, and Warp storm Warblade is a nice blue until you can get something like Kings Defender, or the lurker lollypop of aggro.

8) Compare Improved Heroic Strike, Improved Defensive Stance, and Cruelty as tanking talents.

The are all semi optional to tank builds but at my level SSC/TK
but I'd rank ImI prefer Cruelty's 5% crit for aggro > Imp Heroic strikes 3 point/HS savings and Take the Magic Damage mitigation talent unless i spec into 5/5 Imp demo shout.

9) How would you gear for a boss that has a slow swing speed but hits hard, and does a raid-wide 5000 damage attack every 10 seconds?

Stam gear and favor avoidance over shield block value items. As much expertise as i can equip

Ceravantes
02-25-2008, 10:26 AM
1) What consumables would you bring as a tank to a raid, and why, for:
a) Farm content?
b) Progression content?

Flask of Fortification, Super Healing Potion, Ironshield Potion
Spicy Hot Talbuk, Spicy Crawdad, Nightmare Seed Mighty Rage Potion

a) I would bring and use all these things to progression content

b) I would more than likely not flask and use these things only sparingly on farm content, save perhaps Kael, since we go straight to Hyjal to finish attunements afterwards.

2) Which of the following are true?
a) When you parry your opponent's attack, your swing timer is reduced slightly
b) 25% block chance is needed to be uncrushable with Shield Block up
c) Stacking defense past 490 skill is a bad idea
d) 500 defense makes you uncrushable
e) Devastate replaces Sunder Armour
f) You can combine defense and resilience to become immune to critical hits

a)False, your swing timer is sped up.

b)False, 25% combined avoidance is required

c)False, Defense is still the second cheapest avoidance stat, and when gearing for uncrushable it is the cheapest.

d)False, 102.4% combined avoidance make you uncrushable

e)True, as of 2.3 Devastate replaces Sunder, and while stacking sunder it carries the inherent threat of both.

f)True, 5.60% crit reduction renders you immune to critical hits from lvl 73 mobs, you can reach that number with resilience defense or a mix of both.

3) A rogue pulls aggro from you during trash clearing. What do you do?

You let the rogue die, after all, it is only a rogue.

4) Given access to +15 agility, +2% threat, +10 stamina, or +240 armour, which would you put onRoyal gauntlets of Silvermoon? OnIron Gauntlets of the Maiden? Why?

I would go with threat on Iron Gauntlets of the Maiden and either agility or armor on Royal gauntlets of Silvermoon.

5) What is the significance of the numbers 490 and 102.4?

Critical Hit immunity, and Crushing Blow Immunity

6) Is expertise useful to a tank? Why?

Extremely useful, it acts in a similar way to +hit in that it increases the rate in which you hit a mob. It doesn't increase your stats, rather it decreases a mobs stats making it less likely to dodge and parry. It would be a great threat stat just for this, however because of the way parry works on a successful parry your swing timer speed is increased. You will see a big decrease in spike damage when stacking expertise.

7) Compare The Sun Eater and Warp-Storm Warblade as tanking weapons

Both very nice starter tanking weapons, the dps/top end on the sun eater makes it superior, but warp storm is great if you can't get Sun-eater to drop. They are both heroic drops, so you can only run one a day, may as well do both and use whatever drops first. I would prefer the hit to the dodge personally.

8) Compare Improved Heroic Strike, Improved Defensive Stance, and Cruelty as tanking talents.

Improved Heroic strike is great for increase threat per rage, I find it of little use in end game tanking since the 2.3 devastate change.

Imp defensive stance is one of the talents that makes warriors what they are, imo. The additional spell damage reduction really stands us apart when progressing through new encounters that deal any magic damage. That being said, spend your points elsewhere until you are in SSC/TK, once you are never spec out of it.

Cruelty is almost required for a proper tanking build, crits are a huge threat and rage increase, and you will gain little to no crit from tanking gear.

9) How would you gear for a boss that has a slow swing speed but hits hard, and does a raid-wide 5000 damage attack every 10 seconds.

Effective Health!!! I would gear EH for any slow hitting/non Dual wielding boss. (Stam/Armor/SBV)

10) How can a tank increase maximum threat output?

The most important thing for threat Generation is the proper rotation, after that stack Expertise>Shield Block Value>Hit. This gives you the best threat increase, while keeping your avoidance (expertise) and Mitigation (SBV) up as well.

Ekarderif
02-25-2008, 12:01 PM
1) What consumables would you bring as a tank to a raid, and why, for:
a) Farm content?
20 hit rating food, super healing potion, progression consumables if I remember to withdraw them from my bank. Farm does not need consumables but I like some just in case.

b) Progression content?
30 stam food, 20 hit food, iron shield potions, fort flask, BS item mods if I remember them (stones, wards, etc.).


2) Which of the following are true?
a) When you parry your opponent's attack, your swing timer is reduced slightly
Faster attack speed yes.

b) 25% block chance is needed to be uncrushable with Shield Block up
No, I am uncrushable when naked with a shield.

c) Stacking defense past 490 skill is a bad idea
Not if I am stacking for avoidance. But since I rarely stack for avoidance, I tend to drop my defense to around 490 anyway.

d) 500 defense makes you uncrushable
Only when pigs fly.

e) Devastate replaces Sunder Armour
For the most part yes. Mouseover sunders are still amazing for building threat on CCed mobs.

f) You can combine defense and resilience to become immune to critical hits
Yes.


3) A rogue pulls aggro from you during trash clearing. What do you do?
Taunt -> Shield Slam. But I would be confused at how the rogue pulled aggro.


4) Given access to +15 agility, +2% threat, +10 stamina, or +240 armour, which would you put on Royal Gauntlets of Silvermoon? On Iron Gauntlets of the Maiden? Why?[/QUOTE]
Threat on Maiden for threat; armor on Silvermoon for max EH. We balance our overall stats by swapping gear. We specialize each piece of gear for maximum effectiveness at what it does.


5) What is the significance of the numbers 490 and 102.4?
Crit immune and crush immune.


6) Is expertise useful to a tank? Why?
For warriors/druids, expertise increases threat by a stupidly high amount and reduces parry gibs by a sizable margin. I <3 me expertise.


7) Compare The Sun Eater and Warp-Storm Warblade as tanking weapons
Sun Eater is superior in almost every way. The hit is largely countered by the higher base DPS. But why are we comparing epics to blues?

[QUOTE=Satrina;64649]8) Compare Improved Heroic Strike, Improved Defensive Stance, and Cruelty as tanking talents.
Imp def stance is amazing in SSC/TK and I would not drop it for the life of me. For T4 content, it is not as amazing as magic damage is not everywhere. Cruelty is a passive, always awesome threat talent, and by now, I do not have enough talent points for imp HS. I would only really consider imp HS when wanting to grab Anger Management.


9) How would you gear for a boss that has a slow swing speed but hits hard, and does a raid-wide 5000 damage attack every 10 seconds?
High armor, ludicrous block value, decent avoidance, enough stam to eat at least 3 hits. Predictably slow damage means block value is reliable. And with that amount of raid damage, healers will need all the help they can get.


10) How can a tank increase maximum threat output?
Skill > Expertise > Hit > Crit > Block Value on a pure threat scale. However, I would never stack crit unless there is absolutely no chance of dying and even then, there are usually better stats. And I prefer to stack block value over hit against most bosses as it doubles up as mitigation.

Sunderhorn
02-25-2008, 12:04 PM
I decided to answer these without looking anything up or viewing the other posts [per the vibe I got from the OP], so if there's any misinformation here...sue me? :D

1) What consumables would you bring as a tank to a raid, and why, for:
a) Farm content?
b) Progression content?

a - +20 stam food
b - +30 stam food, Flask of Fortification, Flask of Chromatic Wonder, Ironshield Potion, Nightmare Seed

2) Which of the following are true?
a) When you parry your opponent's attack, your swing timer is reduced slightly
(edit for clarity: that is, time until your next swing is reduced)
b) 25% block chance is needed to be uncrushable with Shield Block up
c) Stacking defense past 490 skill is a bad idea
d) 500 defense makes you uncrushable
e) Devastate replaces Sunder Armour
f) You can combine defense and resilience to become immune to critical hits

a - True
b - False
c - True - The key word being 'stacking'. Defense is never 'bad'
d - LOL...you wish
e - True - Except for that cool mouse-over-sheep-threat-thingy
f - True

3) A rogue pulls aggro from you during trash clearing. What do you do?

Entirely depedent on the situation. My reflex action here would be to taunt it back. However if the pull is difficult I may save my taunt for a healer and simply Conc or Mock the mob back to me. If the rogue has been pissing me off I may just let them die if it won'y endanger the rest of the group/raid.

4) Given access to +15 agility, +2% threat, +10 stamina, or +240 armour, which would you put on [Royal Gauntlets of Silvermoon]? On [Iron Gauntlets of the Maiden]? Why?

+240 Armor if they were the best I had [what I'd wear when I'm scared], otherwise
+15 Agility on the Royal [the play to the avoidance]
+2% Threat on the Maiden [to play to the SBV]

5) What is the significance of the numbers 490 and 102.4?

490 is the Defense you need to become uncrittable by a level 73 mob @ level 70
102.4 is the combined dodge/parry/block you need to push Crushing Blows off the combat table for raid bosses.

6) Is expertise useful to a tank? Why?

Yes. It decreases you're opponents ability to dodge or parry your attacks, which both increases your threat output and decreases the damage spikes that come from being parried.

7) Compare [The Sun Eater] and [Warp-Storm Warblade] as tanking weapons

Warp-Storm is what you were using before you had Sun Eater. :p
Sun-Eater has 12 more DPS, is closer to the GCD in speed [which makes HS happy], and has avoidance.
Warp Storm has 15 hit rating, which will help with taunts and threat in general.
I won't mention the Stamina, since if you're comparing a 1 Stam difference between 2 items...just take whichever one looks cooler.

8) Compare Improved Heroic Strike, Improved Defensive Stance, and Cruelty as tanking talents.

Improved Heroic Strike [3 points] makes your rage dump more effiecent, allowing you to use it more often. This is always useful. Except when you're so rage starved you can't even HS, or if you can't spend your rage as fast as you're using it. But yeah, the other 99% of the time it's useful. I would rate this one above the other 2, since DPS is almost always going to be waiting on you.

Improved Defensive Stance [3 points] reduces the magic damage you take by 6% in defensive stance. This is useful on boss fights where the magic damage done by the boss is significant [say greater than 30% of the bosses output on you] or comes in large amounts at bad times. I would rate this one 3rd, however wether it's a distant third or a close second to second depends on the content you are currently at.

Cruelty [5 points] increases your crit chance by 5%. This is a threat/damage increase that is useful in the same way that Mongoose or Executioner is useful I would rate this one a solid second. Like Imp. HS, the benefits from this are always applicable.

[I]9) How would you gear for a boss that has a slow swing speed but hits hard, and does a raid-wide 5000 damage attack every 10 seconds?

Find out how hard his hits are, then stam up for 3 hits +5000, then flesh out expertise, then avoidance.

10) How can a tank increase maximum threat output?

Read up on rotations. Frequently. [Remember that article you read 2 years ago? It's not so current.]
Make sure the mob is debuffed to hell and back.
Misdirect is crazy-stoopid threat.
Stack your group [if in a raid] to give you candy from Shamans, Druids, etc.
Never miss a GCD [You'll know you're going fast enough because you'll have to wait half a second to use SS] or a HS if you have the rage.
+Agility to Cloak and Boots, +Stats to Chest, +Threat to Gloves

Listed left to right, best to mehst
Stats on tanking items: +Expertise, +Hit, +Shield Block VALUE, +Agility, +Parry, +Strength
Other Stats: +Haste, +Ignore, +Crit, +AP

Kazeyonoma
02-25-2008, 12:34 PM
1) What consumables would you bring as a tank to a raid, and why, for:
a) Farm content? Stam food, Hit food, HP Pots.
b) Progression content? Flask of Fortifications, Ironshield Potions, HP Pots, Stam Food.

2) Which of the following are true?
a) When you parry your opponent's attack, your swing timer is reduced slightly

(edit for clarity: that is, time until your next swing is reduced)
true
b) 25% block chance is needed to be uncrushable with Shield Block up
false
c) Stacking defense past 490 skill is a bad idea
false
d) 500 defense makes you uncrushable
false
e) Devastate replaces Sunder Armour
true, except in mouse over sunder macros
f) You can combine defense and resilience to become immune to critical hits
true

3) A rogue pulls aggro from you during trash clearing. What do you do?
Let him die, keeping aggro on the majority of trash to protect healers will be more beneficial to the raid than worrying about 1 rogue, when he dies, the mob will turn back to me, in which case I will shield slam him and tab back to main target.
4) Given access to +15 agility, +2% threat, +10 stamina, or +240 armour, which would you put on Royal Gauntlets of Silvermoon? +10 stam or +240 armor because this is an EH glove with 2 sockets for stam and high 57 stam already, this would be the ultimate EH glove and thus should be supplemented. On Iron Gauntlets of the Maiden? +2% threat or +10 stam, likewise this is another EH friendly gauntlet, but the sbv on it makes it lean more towards a threat set in which case 2% threat would be a better supplementation.

5) What is the significance of the numbers 490 and 102.4?
490 makes your crit immune against level 73 bosses in regards to defense Skill.
102.4% is the total combined miss/dodge/parry/block to become uncrushable, attainable through being level 70, and hitting shield block.
6) Is expertise useful to a tank? Why?
Yes, it is a more effective form of +hit in terms of threat, and the reduction of parries from the mob make you less likely to be parry-gibbed by hard swinging bosses.
7) Compare The Sun Eater and Warp-Storm Warblade as tanking weapons: Sun eater is more of an avoidance weapon where as Warp-storm is more threat oriented with the +hit.

8) Compare Improved Heroic Strike, Improved Defensive Stance, and Cruelty as tanking talents. I would rank Cruelty -> Imp Heroic -> Imp Def. Cruelty improves your crit chance for all your offensive abilities, something that will boost threat by a large margin. After that is Imp HS because beyond GCD, Heroic strike is the only method to push TPS ahead of your limit, and reducing the rage cost on it means being able to do it more often. Imp Def, although crucial for specific magic based fights, is not as important imo against most bosses that don't do spell specific damage.

9) How would you gear for a boss that has a slow swing speed but hits hard, and does a raid-wide 5000 damage attack every 10 seconds? EH to the core, because he swings slow, I'll be healed to full before he swings again, and when the 5k global attack happens, healers will be split between healing myself and the raid, and having more EH will give them leeway to myself surviving during those moments. Not to mention surviving the worst possible scenario of a big hit followed by an immediate 5k blast.

10) How can a tank increase maximum threat output?[/QUOTE]
Gearwise:
1) Expertise
2) Hit
3) SBV
4/5) Crit/AP
Skillwise:
Use an optimal threat rotation.

klor
02-25-2008, 01:35 PM
1) What consumables would you bring as a tank to a raid, and why, for:
a) Farm content?
Usually on farm content I do not use many consumables unless I just so happened to bring them with me. To be honest, on most farm content it was never a matter of the tank needing that small edge, but more of the guild adapting to the coordination needed... (minus prince as he had always given us trouble when we first put him on 'farm' status)
b) Progression content?
Progression content I always flask when I have them and use spicy crawdads. Unfortunately on progression your comfort with the fight is not there thus you need that extra buffer to help you overcome the lack thereof. Every little bit helps to pad that buffer.

2) Which of the following are true?
a) When you parry your opponent's attack, your swing timer is reduced slightly
(edit for clarity: that is, time until your next swing is reduced)
True
b) 25% block chance is needed to be uncrushable with Shield Block up
False. You actually need 27.4% TOTAL avoidance+block to be uncrushable.
c) Stacking defense past 490 skill is a bad idea
Not necessarily bad, but its not the best thing to do unless perhaps you're an OT where avoidance is a good thing to help conserve mana. (unless you're pushing for uncrushable)
d) 500 defense makes you uncrushable
I wish...
e) Devastate replaces Sunder Armour
True with some exceptions. I have found a few mobs where sunder armor just works better due to things like mana shield or what have you. The threat from sunder is still applied even after 5 stacks whereas with devastate it is no longer applied after 5. (The guys in curator's room in Karazhan are prime example...spam sunder ftw)
f) You can combine defense and resilience to become immune to critical hits
True.
3) A rogue pulls aggro from you during trash clearing. What do you do?
First time it happens, I just regain agro via taunt and hope he vanishes/feints. Second time it happens, he dies and i regain agro...

4) Given access to +15 agility, +2% threat, +10 stamina, or +240 armour, which would you put on Royal Gauntlets of Silvermoon? On Iron Gauntlets of the Maiden? Why?
On maiden gauntlets I put +2% threat due to the fact they are stock full of threat stat. I try not to 'balance' my gear. If a piece is built for it, I tend to stack it more full of it. Thats why we have 'sets' and not just one suit that works for everything. For the royal gauntlets I would probably go with 15agi to assist more with the avoidance on them.

5) What is the significance of the numbers 490 and 102.4?
490 is the defense skill level you need to be uncrushable by level 73 mobs without any resilience. 102.4 is the total avoidance+block needed to be uncrushable.

6) Is expertise useful to a tank? Why?
Yes. It allows us to up our threat even higher by lowering the mobs ability to dodge/parry our attacks. It also keeps us from being insta-gibbed from a bad string of parries on a raid boss.

7) Compare The Sun Eater and Warp-Storm Warblade as tanking weapons
Sun eater is a higher avoidance weapon is faster for heroic strikes where as warblade is more of a threat weapon specially as an OT due to its slightly slower attack speed.

8) Compare Improved Heroic Strike, Improved Defensive Stance, and Cruelty as tanking talents.
Heroic strike has always been a rage dump for tanks. Making it cost even less seems like an oxymoron to me. The points could be better spent elsewhere while in the early stages of end game progression. However, in later stages, you may have a warrior who can do TC for you or demo shout so that would free up more points to allow more rage consumption for heroic strikes and thus upping your threat more by placing points in heroic strike.
Imp Defensive always has been one of those situational talents for me. I dont see a point in specing in it unless i am fighting mobs that tend to drop quite a bit of magical damage. Thus far most mobs have been heavy in melee.
Cruelty... All I have to say is...Yes. Who would pass up 5% crit chance for 5 points in tier1? Where could you possibly get more bang for your buck? I see people passing up cruelty to spec into anger management...really makes me wonder.. I am glad to have spec'd into it everytime I open up with a crit shield slam when autoblocker is popped... :)

9) How would you gear for a boss that has a slow swing speed but hits hard, and does a raid-wide 5000 damage attack every 10 seconds?
That Depends...Can the raid wide 5K damage be dodged/parried? If so, I might actually toss on some avoidance for this fight....especially if it is set up much like the high king maulgar fight where you are left alone with the boss for a while so threat is not an issue. Otherwise...EH ftw!

10) How can a tank increase maximum threat output?
Expertise, Hit, SBV, their spec, lower their dodge/parry some, and ap/crit. Pretty much in that order too.

mattdeeze
02-25-2008, 06:08 PM
1) What consumables would you bring as a tank to a raid, and why, for:
a) Farm content? Dont usually require many consumables for farm content, Super heal pots, Spicy Crawdads, and the occasional Greater Stoneshield Pot
b) Progression content? Flask of Fortification, Greater Stoneshield Pots, Spicy Crawdads, Nightmare Seeds, Adamantite Sharpening Stones,

2) Which of the following are true?
a) When you parry your opponent's attack, your swing timer is reduced slightly True
b) 25&#37; block chance is needed to be uncrushable with Shield Block up False
c) Stacking defense past 490 skill is a bad idea False
d) 500 defense makes you uncrushable False
e) Devastate replaces Sunder Armour 99% True, Sunder is still useful in a mouseover macro on CCed mobs.
f) You can combine defense and resilience to become immune to critical hits True

3) A rogue pulls aggro from you during trash clearing. What do you do? Let him die JK. If he knows what he is doing he will vanish, if it is resisted taunt the mob back

4) Given access to +15 agility, +2% threat, +10 stamina, or +240 armour, which would you put on [Royal Gauntlets of Silvermoon]? +240 armor On [Iron Gauntlets of the Maiden]? +2% Threat Why? the Royal Gauntlets are a better Effective health piece, and the Iron Gauntlets are a better Threat piece.

5) What is the significance of the numbers 490 and 102.4? 490 Defence makes you uncrittable against level 73 bosses. 102.4 is the amount of total avoidance and block to be uncrushable.

6) Is expertise useful to a tank? Yes. Why? It reduces the avoidance of your target allowing your special abilites to hit more often for more sustained Threat. Also reduces Parries reducing your incoming spike damage.

7) Compare [The Sun Eater] and [Warp-Storm Warblade] as tanking weapons Id say that Warp storm would be a better threat weapon, but i would hesitate to give up the dps in exchange for the +hit rating. i use my second tier BS weapon for threat.

8) Compare Improved Heroic Strike, Improved Defensive Stance, and Cruelty as tanking talents. Personally. I dont have IHS or Cruelty, But I consider Improved Defensive Stance an Essential tanking talent, as it not only applies to physical damage, but magic damage too. If im in a surplus rage situation where i can afford to spam heroic strike then a few rage isnt going to make too much of a difference for me, and I have enough Expertise to be able to sustain good threat and I dont like to try to depend upon an occasional crit to pad my threat.

9) How would you gear for a boss that has a slow swing speed but hits hard, and does a raid-wide 5000 damage attack every 10 seconds? Effective Health :)

10) How can a tank increase maximum threat output? Stack some Expertise. Use a solid rotation, +hit doesnt hurt, and have another warrior handle TC and Demo Shout.

Narshe
02-26-2008, 05:04 AM
1) What consumables would you bring as a tank to a raid, and why, for:
a) Farm content?
I usually use Gift of Arthas, Elixir of Major Agility, +20 STR food (I still miss the +hit food recipe :Z)

b) Progression content?
Depends on the boss. I usually use a Flask, +30 stamina buff, Scrolls on the first night of attempts. When I know that the learning curve has been achieved, I try to use the Gift+Major agi combo plus foods and scrolls


2) Which of the following are true?
a) When you parry your opponent's attack, your swing timer is reduced slightly

(edit for clarity: that is, time until your next swing is reduced)
Yes, but enemy parries are more noticeable.

b) 25% block chance is needed to be uncrushable with Shield Block up
Nope, 27,4% of block+parry+miss+dodge is needed.

c) Stacking defense past 490 skill is a bad idea
It's not the best option, but it's not a bad idea. You usually stack stamina and armor for progression or dodge rating for avoidance. Defense is still a good thing to have, and it's the ebst thing to stack when gearing for passive uncrushability

d) 500 defense makes you uncrushable
I would love if it was that easy....
PS.: No

e) Devastate replaces Sunder Armour
Yes. The only thing you can use sunder armor for when speccing into devastate is for building threat on CCed mobs.

f) You can combine defense and resilience to become immune to critical hits
Yes.


3) A rogue pulls aggro from you during trash clearing. What do you do?
Laughing to him at vent, looking if I still have salvation up (and asking him if he doesn't have) and while we are having this convo I will do taunt, concussion blow, then two or three aggro movements.


4) Given access to +15 agility, +2% threat, +10 stamina, or +240 armour, which would you put on Royal Gauntlets of Silvermoon? On Iron Gauntlets of the Maiden? Why?
Depends. Royal gauntlets are oriented to Effective Health, so the best option is +240 armor, followed with +10 stamina and +15 agi. Maiden gloves have a nice piece of threat in form of Shield Block value so a +2% threat would be better to use on them. However, depends if you are farming content or doing progression kills. If you have the money, always enchant your better gloves in the way it fits better to your current status. I actually have +2% threat in T6 gloves, which I will change as soon as I move to Sunwell content.


5) What is the significance of the numbers 490 and 102.4?
490 is the amount of defense skill needed for being uncrittable
102,40% is the amount of defensive stats needed for being uncrushable. Those stats are dodge + parry + block + miss from defense + 5.

6) Is expertise useful to a tank? Why?
It increase threat, as you reduces the amount of dodged and parried attacks.
It reduces spike damage comming from boss parries.


7) Compare The Sun Eater and Warp-Storm Warblade as tanking weapons
The first one has better avoidance stats on it, the second one is more a threat weapon, and even having less dps I bet it will provide more threat in the long term.
Btw, the second one has a really really really awesome skin.


8) Compare Improved Heroic Strike, Improved Defensive Stance, and Cruelty as tanking talents.
Improved Defensive Stance is only viable for MTs, and only good if you are doing magic damage bosses.
Imp Heroic increase the efficiency of the Heroic Strike ability, so it also improve the threat output as you can perform more Heroics for less price. However, as you can't use Heroics if you are not the one receiving the hits (off tanks for example) is not a good talent depending on your raid role.
Cruelty is a must have for any tank, as it increase the threat output with almost all your skills and abilities.


9) How would you gear for a boss that has a slow swing speed but hits hard, and does a raid-wide 5000 damage attack every 10 seconds?
Effective Health. If you gear for avoidance you will be rage starved most of the fight because the only reliant damage income is the aoe damage. Plus your healers have more things to heal apart from you so you need some HP buffer because you are gonna be spiked for sure.

10) How can a tank increase maximum threat output?
Assuming you are doing a perfect skill rotation with no latency
- 1. Cap the melee hit
- 2. Improve your expertise
- 3. Shield Block value
- 4. AP and/or crit


Did I passed? ^_^

dorfwawwior
02-26-2008, 05:27 AM
1) What consumables would you bring as a tank to a raid, and why, for:
a) Farm content?

to me farm content is all about stuff dying faster, so you are IN N OUT in quicker time, so that means more dps allowed which comes from more tps done by you, with that in mind, my food of choice is either str food or hit food, str is flat more dps over time, eating the hitfood would allow you to drop hit on gear and potentially stack more expertise or bv for in turn more TPS if I had to use a flask, i would chose either chromatic wonder or AP one, elixirs I would use major agi/major str battle and major defense/major fort guardian fight dependent. short dur pots, haste pots, heroic pots are all good if needed only I would say, crit/dmg stones if no support shaman in tank grp

b) Progression content?

progression leads to more conventional EH prepping
food - 30 stam
battle elixir - major agi
guardian elixir - major fort
flask - fortification
short dur pots - proper resist absorbs or ironshields
shield chest absorb BS items

2) Which of the following are true?
a) When you parry your opponent's attack, your swing timer is reduced slightly

(edit for clarity: that is, time until your next swing is reduced)
True - and to clarify what I've noticed it doesn't stack if you parry a mob that swings faster than you autoattack or multitank situations, ie your swing is slower than their two swings and mutliple parries cannot reduce a already parried attack

b) 25% block chance is needed to be uncrushable with Shield Block up

False - 25% combined from dodge parry block and MISS must add up to 102.4 to be uncrushable to 1h/s and 2h wielding mobs, DW mobs suffer a miss penalty and therefore you can subtract 24% from 102.4 for their uncrush total, reducing it to 78.4

c) Stacking defense past 490 skill is a bad idea
this is debateable, 490 is the min for using defense skill to cover crit immunity, there is also resil to cover it as well, stat for stat 1 defense skill tho is .16 total avoidance from the .04 modded to dodge/parry/block/miss, so in those terms it is good. It is great when making passive uncrush sets, threat sets I do not favor high defense skill tho, since it reduces your rage gen from inc dmg taken pretty significantly

d) 500 defense makes you uncrushable

false, 102.4 dodge/block/parry/miss added = uncrushable

e) Devastate replaces Sunder Armour

for a tank, yes it does, for a main tank of course since they will always have dev, for an offtank, that may not have dev always, it may not which in that case sunder is what is used

f) You can combine defense and resilience to become immune to critical hits

crit immunity from resil and defense must add up to 5.6%

3) A rogue pulls aggro from you during trash clearing. What do you do?

if its on the main target and is not taunt immune, i will taunt, and resume my TPS rotation, most trash is tauntable, it also depends on when it was pulled, and how much health remains, if he can take the remaining hits from it and it dies, I won't taunt just to save the cd, but if its got a ways to go, taunt will give me his threat so it's a threat boost to use taunt, if its taunt immune I will probably call for a vanish and resume tanking when it returns to me from the agro wipe, less deaths = less downtime = faster trash clearing

4) Given access to +15 agility, +2% threat, +10 stamina, or +240 armour, which would you put on [Royal Gauntlets of Silvermoon]? On [Iron Gauntlets of the Maiden]? Why?

Lately I am a fan of 2% threat, but it would depends on other slots and your stats. The glove slot is the ONLY slot that gets that enchant which really is a gem imo.

5) What is the significance of the numbers 490 and 102.4?

490 is the minimum defense needed to negate crits using JUST defense skill for lvl 73 mobs and skull raid bosses when you are lvl 70.

102.4 is whats needed to push crushing blows off the mobs attack table if they are lvl 73 or skull when you are lvl 70.

6) Is expertise useful to a tank? Why?

very, it basically solidifies the landing of all your attacks and abiltities, it can be clutch for initial rage dumping TPS moments

7) Compare [The Sun Eater] and [Warp-Storm Warblade] as tanking weapons
both are swords which for humans is good, for all other classes no diff
both have equal defense rating - no diff
one has dodge rating, one has hit rating - sun eater more of a avoidance weapon, warp storm a threat weapon
stam is pretty equal
dmg range is higher on sun, which means harder hitting devs, speed is irrelevant since it is normalized
oh and warp costs a lot less to repair :P


8) Compare Improved Heroic Strike, Improved Defensive Stance, and Cruelty as tanking talents.

imp hs is efficiency on the best way to improve TPS imo, all the TPS records are form tanks that basically que HS every swing

imp d stance is reduced dmg from magic, which is meh imo overall at 1000dmg it takes off 60 pts of dmg, 3 talent pts for 60 pts? no thanks, of course in heavy magic dmg it can be useful and especially on DoT dmg, since it reduces to total DoT, but most DoTs are removed before they can do there full effect, personally I would say the cutoff to spec into it is 5k or more direct dmg attacks

crit is crit is crit, it scales ALL of our abilties, it is a must for even a tank, a tank that doesnt spec it is just flat dumb cause it is even over long fights, more TPS

9) How would you gear for a boss that has a slow swing speed but hits hard, and does a raid-wide 5000 damage attack every 10 seconds?

depends on how hard is hard and if he has special melee attacks also, but I would not use a passive uncrush set simply cause his swing is slow and sb should be up always, i would gear for stam/armor but maintain dodge/parry/miss at 40% total, I would cap hit and some expertise is nice also, rage won't be an issue with the 5k dmg every 10 secs, the type of dmg wasn't clarified, so resist gear maybe? also, i would stack decent BV, cuz over long fights that blocked dmg adds up

10) How can a tank increase maximum threat output?

add bv, add hit, add expertise, drop dodge/parry, increase armor, take more hits, but take less dmg from them and never miss attacks/abilities, when adding bv to take less dmg from hits you need to pair it with some block rating gear cuz while using sb to proc a block it does still cost 10 rage to use and has a cd, passive block % in the 35-40 range I find to be a sweet spot, ask for Prayer of Mending and Earth Shield always to be on you, add a feral and enh shaman to your tank grp, or even a BM hunter with ferocious insp, theres lots of tricks to do some insane TPS, use haste pots, heroic pots, the unconventional TPS numbers basically require unconventional practices.

ciao...

Klimpen
02-26-2008, 05:29 AM
1) What consumables would you bring as a tank to a raid, and why, for:
a) Farm content?

Depends, Currently the first 4 bosses in ZA are on farm, I'd use a Flask of Blinding Light, +damage food and +damage Oil. Kara=nothing.

b) Progression content?

Flask of Fortification, 30Sta food and +damage Oil.

2) Which of the following are true?
a) When you parry your opponent's attack, your swing timer is reduced slightly

(edit for clarity: that is, time until your next swing is reduced)

Yep, 40% reduction, if I remember rightly.

b) 25% block chance is needed to be uncrushable with Shield Block up

Nope, for warriors 27.4% avoidance [inc Block] is needed, Paladins need 67.07%. Total of 102.4%

c) Stacking defense past 490 skill is a bad idea

Provides a fairly significant amount of avoidance [second only to BR].

d) 500 defense makes you uncrushable

O_o Where'd you pull that one out of? No.

e) Devastate replaces Sunder Armour

Yep, except in exceptional circumstances which I cant think of an example of right now. Mabye during a phase when the boss retaliates when attacked? Would Sunder be counted as an 'attack'?

f) You can combine defense and resilience to become immune to critical hits

Yes, makes the Shield Wall extremely attractive atm, with the reduced Def on ZA gears and all.

3) A rogue pulls aggro from you during trash clearing. What do you do?

Depends. 9/10 it'd be his own fault for pulling [ie, stunlocking before the mob got to me, not focus'ing] and I'd let him die and then taunt. Other 10% I'd straight up taunt.

4) Given access to +15 agility, +2% threat, +10 stamina, or +240 armour, which would you put on Royal Gauntlets of Silvermoon?

240 Armor, best EH gauntlets in the game.

On Iron Gauntlets of the Maiden? Why?

240 Armor again, for their place in progression, they're extremely good EH.

5) What is the significance of the numbers 490 and 102.4?

Uncrit and Uncrush, respectively.

6) Is expertise useful to a tank? Why?

Yep, Avoidance-Avoidance, it's twice as good as Hit until the soft cap of 23.

7) Compare The Sun Eater and Warp-Storm Warblade as tanking weapons

Sun Eater's the best avoidance weapon currently in game. Its higher DPS and speed could offset the threat for +hit on the Warp-Storm. [unsure of the exact numbers offhand]

8) Compare Improved Heroic Strike, Improved Defensive Stance, and Cruelty as tanking talents.

Cruelty is roughly a 5% increase in threat [mabye a little less due to innate threat modifiers].
Imp Def Stances lets you take more magical damage. Good for when you're taking a lot of it.
Imp HS lets you queue more HS. Tentitively I'm going to say it's a larger threat increase in moderate rage environments than Cruelty.

[Sorry for not being totally familiar with the exacts of Warrior tanking talents]

9) How would you gear for a boss that has a slow swing speed but hits hard, and does a raid-wide 5000 damage attack every 10 seconds?

Uncrit>Uncrush>EH Minimums>Threat>Avoidance.

As usual. BV probably wouldn't be a good mitigation stat, so Armor would be prioritised over it.

10) How can a tank increase maximum threat output?

Increase threat stats. Hit, Expertise, BV for Warriors. Hit, Expertise, SHit, +damage for Tankadins.
Tighten threat rotations. <-biggie
Reduce latency.
Increase local computer performance.
Change threat rotation in non-dangerous tanking situations. [more for Paladins, prioritise HS below other abilities]

Arrivan
02-26-2008, 06:05 AM
1) What consumables would you bring as a tank to a raid, and why, for:
a) Farm content?

Hit food (threat = sexy), sharpening stones (if you're not getting WF), Greater Agi potion and Gift of Arthas (I haven't used this one before, but I'll have to try it out in the future)

b) Progression content?

Standard stuff, Flask of Fortification, Spicy Crawdads, Sharpening Stones (again, assuming you're not getting WF), lots of healing and Ironskin potions

2) Which of the following are true?
a) When you parry your opponent's attack, your swing timer is reduced slightly
(edit for clarity: that is, time until your next swing is reduced)

True

b) 25&#37; block chance is needed to be uncrushable with Shield Block up

False. It's been stated a heap of times before, but I'll say it again. 27.4% combined block/dodge/parry/to be missed chance + Shield Block = uncushable for the duration of Shield Block.

c) Stacking defense past 490 skill is a bad idea

False. While at earlier levels of progression you'll see a bigger benefit to stacking EH or threat stats over +def, +def is a great stat for reaching passive uncrushability or avoidance in general.

d) 500 defense makes you uncrushable

False.

e) Devastate replaces Sunder Armour

Pretty much. The only use I could think of for sunder would be in a mouseover macro to sunder CCed targets without breaking it.

f) You can combine defense and resilience to become immune to critical hits

Very much true. Resilience is great for resist fights (eg. Hydross)

3) A rogue pulls aggro from you during trash clearing. What do you do?

Depends. I'm really uptight about party members getting hit so I would probably taunt immediately, but if they were making a habit of pulling aggro I would let them die.

4) Given access to +15 agility, +2% threat, +10 stamina, or +240 armour, which would you put on Royal Gauntlets of Silvermoon?

240 armour for sure. While I'm not at the level of progression to get them, those gloves scream EH. Which leads to my answer to...

On Iron Gauntlets of the Maiden? Why?

240 armour again. It's what's on my Iron Gauntlets, so why would I answer differently here? The Iron Gauntlets are a great EH piece for where they drop, so supplementing that is always a good thing.

5) What is the significance of the numbers 490 and 102.4?

490 def = uncrittable
102.4% combined block/dodge/parry/to be missed = uncrushable

6) Is expertise useful to a tank? Why?

It's only my new favourite stat. All you have to do is look around here to see why. In short, expertise = less parries and dodges which = more threat, and less parries = less chance of the favour being returned when the mob parries your next (faster) attack.

7) Compare The Sun Eater and Warp-Storm Warblade as tanking weapons

Sun Eater = avoidance. The Warp-Storm blade is a threat weapon. Given that it's late where I am while I'm typing this, I won't go into the effect of the difference in weapon DPS between them.

8) Compare Improved Heroic Strike, Improved Defensive Stance, and Cruelty as tanking talents.

To be completely honest, I haven't put much thought into this. I'm primarily Fury spec, so I haven't delved as deeply into the nitty-gritty of these talents as much as others. I do know however that Cruelty is a must have in almost any warrior spec, but it is acceptable to drop points from it if your build is designed for something else (I don't know exactly what spec wouldn't have Cruelty, but it's not an OMG-you-must-have-this-talent-or-you-are-a-noob kind of deal). I also know that Imp. Def. Stance is of moderate value depending on how often you take spell damage while tanking. For something like learning Kael'thas you might want to take it, but someone starting Kara would probably not need it. It's another one of those situational things. I imagine Imp. HS is the same.

9) How would you gear for a boss that has a slow swing speed but hits hard, and does a raid-wide 5000 damage attack every 10 seconds?

I'm going to go ahead and steal Klimpen's answer to this. Uncrit > Uncrush > EH > Threat > Avoidance > Passive uncush. There's really not too many ways to say that. One would assume there are other healers to heal the raid, so you have no reason to gear for more avoidance than most other bosses (notable exceptions: Prince Malchezaar, Leotheras? I haven't done him, so I don't know)

10) How can a tank increase maximum threat output?

> Expertise
> Hit
> Block Value
> Windfury
> Weapon DPS
> Reducing latency (oh, how I wish I could)
That kind of thing. I have nothing new to add here.

Grabmill
02-26-2008, 06:42 AM
Only going to answer the questions that have different answers than the people before me.

1) What consumables would you bring as a tank to a raid, and why, for:
a) Farm content?
- Str food (reached my hit cap in farm content gear already)

b) Progression content?
- Rage potions (imba cheap, I usually take one right at the start of a boss fight)

2) Which of the following are true?
c) Stacking defense past 490 skill is a bad idea
I love avoidance. Defense is goood.

e) Devastate replaces Sunder Armour
For me, yes completely. I don't use mouse-over macros. Don't see the use of them. Can't think of a mob that is sheepable and immune to taunt.

3) A rogue pulls aggro from you during trash clearing. What do you do?
Curse myself. I wasn't building up enough threat!

4) Given access to +15 agility, +2&#37; threat, +10 stamina, or +240 armour, which would you put on [Royal Gauntlets of Silvermoon]? On [Iron Gauntlets of the Maiden]? Why?
Interesting answers so far. A lot of people say that they would use Maiden gloves for a threat set. In my opinion both T4 and badger gloves are better for threat. As long as I don't have T5 gloves, I'm using Maiden for crush immunity. Therefore they will go with 15 agi.
Royal Gauntlets of Silvermoon: 15 agility as well, because it's the best enchant imo. (Remember, I love avoidance).

7) Compare [The Sun Eater] and [Warp-Storm Warblade] as tanking weapons
Never ever considered the second one. The loss in DPS is too big to make up for the gain in hit rating.

8) Compare Improved Heroic Strike, Improved Defensive Stance, and Cruelty as tanking talents.
Improved HS is critical. Past Karazhan, you will probably always have enough rage to keep HS up. But still, without IHS, you will run short on rage.
For the person who said he would only take IHS to get AM: AM generates 1 rage per 3 seconds. So that's 0.33 rage/second for 1 talent point. Suppose you have a 1.6 weapon (which most tank weapons are, Mallet is 1.7 though), HS-spam will save you 1/1.6=0.62 rage per second per talent point!

Improved Def Stance: only useful against bosses who do magical damage with their melee attacks (Hydross, Pandemonius and such). If the whole raid is getting magical damage from an aoe effect, then usually the amount of damage from it on the tonk is negligible. I usually get Amplify Magic anyway, even in fights with lots of magic damage (my GF is teh mage, so she always sneaks it in to me, even if not everyone agrees on using it :-)).

9) How would you gear for a boss that has a slow swing speed but hits hard, and does a raid-wide 5000 damage attack every 10 seconds?
Expertise ftw!

10) How can a tank increase maximum threat output?
Skillz is everything. Furthermore talents (IHS, AM, Cruelty and a few more).
Having an offtank who does debuffs for you.
Postponing shield block if you're on full HP :P.
Misdirects.
Rage potions.
Using trinkets on every cooldown (if it's a trinket that improves your threat, so not the Moroes or Hydross ones).
New metagem in 2.4: 10% extra block value! woot woot!!

And:
Analyze combat logs. Check how many shield slams, revenges, devastates and such you did.


Hmmm, a much longer post in the end than I intended originally...