PDA

View Full Version : Is Executioner Really Worth It?



Kahmal
02-19-2008, 01:51 PM
Ok, now as opposed to Mongoose that does indeed increase TPS, I can say it does make sense that Executioner would increase it more so. The minute it Procs I could trigger my Auto Blocker + SS Macro pray it crits and watch to TPS sky rocket.

But...I've talked with other renoun tanks on my server and they thing the idea of Executioner > Mongoose on a tanking weapon is absurd. It's clear they dont do as much research as I do but I still dont want to be a laughing stock. Since I am known as the best tanking in my guild, they will support the idea but it is odd to them as well.

And also, mongoose seems like a better tanking enchant overrall, the crit increase and speed boost for threat and the 4% dodge for avoidance seems alot more universal then just an enchant with a threat boost all together.

So what I wanna know is, how much will this increase my TPS. I have Mongoose on my Sun Eater already and when I pick up Kings Defender I'd want to put Executioner on it, but if I'm going to make a fool out of myself I want to know if it's worth it.

Devarin
02-19-2008, 02:17 PM
I'd put executioner on a threat weapon rather than a mitigation weapon. While the KD is a well-rounded weapon overall, I would put Mongoose on it as well for most tanking situations. In my weapon bag:

King's Defender w/ Mongoose - General tanking weapon, sees time in my EH/Blocking Set
Akil'zon's Talonblade w/ Executioner - Threat/trash weapon, doubles in my DW set
Sun Eater w/ Mongoose - Mitigation weapon, mostly in my Avoidance set

If you want the armor penetration and have the room to work it in to your set, you could always pick up [Icon of Unyielding Courage]

On a side note, I've been thinking about making the KD my blocking weapon and putting Potency on it. Any thoughts or suggestions?

Rak
02-19-2008, 02:21 PM
Here is my take on it: Mongoose gives you (I think) a 4% increased CHANCE to crit when it procs. So that threat is random roll based. The 2% haste is not even worth noting - haste means almost nothing unless you have a good amount of it. Consider if you have a 1.6 speed sword, and mongoose procs, it means your swing speed goes down to 1.56800. Think about how much extra threat that will give you since it only effects white damage and heroic strikes.

Really, the threat benefits of mongoose are not that huge. Keep a weapon with mongoose for avoidance. Use it on fights where you don't need extra threat.

Personally I switch to my King's Defender on fights like Tidewalker (to help survive) and Karathress (I have a 100k threat lead and don't need more threat). But this is only because I had that sword way before Executioner was released. I do enjoy Executioner on my Mallet, and use it most of the time.

Notalda
02-19-2008, 03:26 PM
It has been theorycrafted quite a few times whether executioneer is better or mongoose.

In my personal opinion, if you want threat, you want executioneer. Mongoose will only grant you more threat if it procs AND you crit (the added AP is negligible at best), while executioneer will grant you threat every time it procs. Slightly less than mongoose with crit streaks, but since it grants threat during the whole time it's up, in the long run, it buys you more threat.

Granted, mongoose gives you ~4% dodge too... Question is: do you want it? I know I hated it when it procced on the first hit and I kept dodging for 10+ seconds. Kinda nullified my threat generation as my rage bar was empty.

I'd say, if you have enough avoidance from gear alone (T5-level gear and around that), you can easily switch to executioneer, and you won't notice the loss of avoidance at all.

However, you WILL notice the extra threat. I sure did, and am loving executioneer.

As others said above:

Sun Eater, King's Defender - Mongoose
Mallet of the Tides, The Brutalizer, Talonblade - Executioneer

Rak
02-19-2008, 03:41 PM
(the added AP is negligible at best)
What added AP?

Irghen
02-19-2008, 04:00 PM
I only have a Sun Eater and a King's Defender; so, till I get something else, the eater has mongoose and the KD executioner.

Xav
02-19-2008, 04:26 PM
Well isn't today a grand day! I get to contribute by pointing out other contributions. (I might even have some posts in these threads)

On this same front page, we have two threads already on this topic, now thanks to you we're at 3! :)

You might find some answers here:

http://www.theoryspot.com/forums/theory-articles-guides/35184-mallet-tides-w-executioner.html

http://www.theoryspot.com/forums/theory-articles-guides/34749-executioner-vs-mongoose.html

Damn, didn't actually have any of my own posts in there, but I know this has been discussed elsewhere, probably in the threat-centric threads.

The gist: Executioner when procced guarantees a threat increase of every ability you do, Mongoose is just a chance for a threat increase.

Executioner is a threat enchant, nothing else.
Mongoose is a balanced enchant, providing avoidance and threat with one enchant.

Dunmail
02-20-2008, 03:02 AM
I was using Grom Tors axe with Mongoose on it as a main tanky weapon until Sun Eater/ KD dropped. Luckily KD dropped the following week after I'd added the Mongoose. I put Executioner on KD and noticed a significant increase in threat.

This was corroborated in Heroic BF a couple of weeks back where due to very very limited CC I had to stack as much Stam as possible and reverted back to the axe. I then struggled with threat to keep above a very well equipped rogue on a couple of mobs. Swapping back to KD with Executioner resolved the issue.

I still plan to do occasional Mech runs and try and snag a SE, which if it did drop I'd put on Mongoose for an avoidance tanky weapon. I've no complaints using Executioner for my main tanky weapon, I notice mongoose proccing more, but that's probably more due to it being a more visible 'proc' animation. Either one is a good enchant and you won't be robbed, but until I'm fully happy with my kit I'll happily take any extra threat going my way.

Bigstik
02-20-2008, 07:03 AM
The Sun Eater with 20 agility
King's Defender with Mongoose
Mallet of the Tides with Executioner

I use either King's D or TSE for bosses, depending on the survival or threat needs, while I typically use my Mallet to show off to the other tanks that I can generate a huge amount of threat, most of which I don't need. All in all, it's about recognizing the strengths of the weapons to which you have access and enchanting them accordingly.

That said, if you've only got one good tanking weapon, I'd recommend mongoose, as it's a nice balance between threat and mitigation/avoidance. However, if you've already got a survival weapon enchanted, then the next threat weapon drop (which are typically not an increase in survivability, as they'll have a certain degree of threat itemization such as Expertise, Hit, Haste, etc), put Executioner on it.

They won't be laughing when the raid can't touch your threat.

Armstrong
02-21-2008, 02:11 PM
On a side note, I've been thinking about making the KD my blocking weapon and putting Potency on it. Any thoughts or suggestions?

Potency (+20 strength) will increase your SBV by 1, so don't choose that enchant for the gain in block value. That said, the mats are relatively cheap for a weapon enchant, and the extra strength on its own will provide a slight increase in DPS and rage generation. Particularly if you have Vitality and Devastate, Potency makes a lot of sense on a weapon you'll be using for things other than tanking.

Foolishness
02-22-2008, 07:43 AM
use greater agi or mongoose on the Suneater

use +7 weapon damage or executioner on the Kings Defender

Anyone who had a KD and a suneater and had mongoose on both of them would be the laughing stock of me. Different weapons for different situations. Don't worry what other people will think.

Kings defender is not well rounded. Its a threat tanking weapon for an EH set.

EUN
02-28-2008, 06:33 AM
You can switch weapons in combat. That said, you may want to start with KD with Executioner, then switch between that and SE with Mongoose at fight phase changes.

Thinking outside the box will maximize the stats you have to work with during fights. There is no law that says you have to go through an entire fight with the same weapon.

[I truly realized this when first tanking Curator in Kara. A shield and one hand during evocation makes no sense when he doesn't do melee and a shield won't block spell damage, anyway. Grabbing the 2 hander makes more sense (especially at evocation and <20%). I am not advocating such a strat, but use it to make the point that swapping weapons when appropriate can and should be integrated into every tank's fight strategy.]

Elcolombiano
02-28-2008, 08:08 AM
Is executioner worth it?

Definitely. I picked up my Mallet from slacker below and immediately enchanted executioner on it.

it's simply a-ma-zing. The thing is, mongoose is nice because you gain crit, dodge and a tiny bit of armor. but, in order to actually increase your tps while it's up, it does need to crit.

and that's what executioner makes the best of the two. It procs, and for the next 15 seconds you can expect seeing more dmg from your attacks, instead of when mongoose procs waiting for crits..

Now there is still a situation where you'd want to use mongoose on a weapon. Let's say you're in BT, and you got the Brutalizer and the Unbreakable will.

a threat weapon and a mitigation weapon respectively. I'd put executioner on the Brutalizer and Mongoose on Unbreakable will; it fits the weapons better and their uses.

Hope that helped :)