PDA

View Full Version : What's up with the Haste?



Calve
02-13-2008, 04:29 AM
Is it just me or is this stat horrible for tanks?

I don't understand why all this sunwell gear has so much haste, fill me in.

Youkai
02-13-2008, 06:30 AM
Faster hits, more threat?

SuperFlounder
02-13-2008, 08:46 AM
Well, being the devils advocate, if blizzard budgeted items the way we wanted, stam values would probably be through the roof, tier pieces would have roughly 45-60 more stam on them each. its a balancing game to them. Its our choice to determine if the item is an upgrade for our needs.

That being said, haste is a good way to expand now that end game tanks will find themselves very close to expertise capping on boss fights (expertise being the last big gear attribute they pimped). Tanking t5 content, even with high avoidance values, its a uphill battle spending all my rage sometimes without risking it not being there when I need it for my survival needs such as SB, TC and Demo. Faster hits mean that you can easily spam your heroic strikes to get rage back down, being less reliant on GCD, keeping burst tps high after a shield slam, and in case that leaves you with an empty bar, you'll be less reliant on incoming damage to get it back up.

Is it the most useful? Short answer, no, I'd rather have that 40 haste rating in stam or extra armor thanks, but that's where my needs stand atm. It will certainly make life easier for threat when you are capped in other areas. I also do see it as an extra push to keep rage for threat generation more independent of taking damage, making farmed content easier, or even allowing for much higher avoidance values if that's your pleasure.

Notalda
02-13-2008, 10:26 AM
Personally, I love haste for my threat gear. I have capped expertise, almost capped hit, 700 SBV unbuffed, with a decent amount of stamina, armor and expertise (enough to tank Archimonde & Bloodboil), the two decently scaling stats at this point for me, are SBV and haste. My rage bar is quite hard to keep empty at times, haste allows me to spam heroic strike faster, thus, doing more threat than without haste.

It's not the best stat, obviously, but it's one damn useful stat for fights where you want to dish out as much threat as possible (be that a threat fight or older farm content).

Looking forward to get my hands on the +sta/+expertise/+haste sword :)

gardek
02-15-2008, 08:37 AM
I don't really understand haste either...
Does it affect anything other than white damage/HS ? Won't help with Shield Slams, which is our main threat tool...

If we're going for threat itemization, wouldn't we be better off with armor penetration, which would affect all our abilities? (aka, mongoose vs. executioner)?
Or hell, even more block value...

SuperFlounder
02-15-2008, 10:08 AM
I personally don't know if adding a bunch of haste is the best boost to threat, but it seems almost like a boost to threat that we won't need to waste mental energy, GCD, or (most importantly) rage in order to utilize. You can easily just calculate the flat tps increase you'll see from your weapon plus your attack power. Say king's defender and 800 attack power? 40 haste would up the tps by roughly 5 tps I believe. That's 1% increase (half glove enchant) if you're pulling in only 500 tps. A t6 tank probably does 1 k to 1.5 k dps, at the same it, this stacks with parry buffs, and it scales VERY well with gear and weapons. We'll just have to see what develops.

Notalda
02-15-2008, 10:12 AM
As Gardek said, both SBV and -armor are better threat tools than haste, in most situations. However, when you find yourself in a situation where it is hard to empty your rage bar, haste wins, as it allows you to convert more rage into threat within a shorter time.

It's also a wonderful stat when you're tanking multiple mobs, and you're cleaving like mad - haste also affects that.

It's not an amazing stat overall, but it has its uses, although those uses are mostly situational.

mattdeeze
02-15-2008, 10:29 AM
I may be wrong, but i believe that haste will reduce the time of our global cooldown as well in the 2.4 patch, down to a minimum of 1 second GCD. This concept is very exciting to me, but I doubt it would be worth stacking as it would take a tremendous amount of haste in order to make a significant difference in your GCD. And I dont think that haste scales well as far is itemization points are concerned in relation to Exp, Hit, Stam, etc. But it is another threat scaler that will be nice to look forward to and the idea of being able to hit SS, Revenge, Devastate, etc. even a split second sooner is very appealing to me. :) Again like i said, I may be wrong about the whole GCD thing.
Matt

Edit: Hmm. checked the patch notes and it seems that there is a reference to GCD reduction for Spell Haste :( It also specifically says that this will not apply to melee and ranged haste. Not sure if it will eventually apply to melee GCD. (whats do i type in to make the little crying face symbol)

byechee
02-15-2008, 10:37 AM
I may be wrong, but i believe that haste will reduce the time of our global cooldown as well in the 2.4 patch, down to a minimum of 1 second GCD. This concept is very exciting to me, but I doubt it would be worth stacking as it would take a tremendous amount of haste in order to make a significant difference in your GCD. And I dont think that haste scales well as far is itemization points are concerned in relation to Exp, Hit, Stam, etc. But it is another threat scaler that will be nice to look forward to and the idea of being able to hit SS, Revenge, Devastate, etc. even a split second sooner is very appealing to me. :) Again like i said, I may be wrong about the whole GCD thing.
Matt

GCD to 1 second is only for casters.

Radhja
02-15-2008, 01:51 PM
GCD to 1 second is only for casters.Yeah, I don't understand why this isn't going to be a universal change in the haste mechanics.

They can give Casters 1/3 equivalent +spell dmg from +heal gear...

They can give Casters +haste to reduce the GCD...

They give all Mages Ice Block...


But they can't make Defense convert to a 1/3 equivalent Resilience Score?*

...or make it so Haste bring OUR GCD to a 1 sec?



I think the devs are caster-crazy these days.




*this has been a gripe of mine since the introduction of Resilience... Blizz is so biased...

Xav
02-15-2008, 03:39 PM
2 pieces have haste, not "all". And one is a weapon which isn't even necessarily for tanks. I don't think it will last, it's a test server after all. Several stats have already changed for other class' items on test.

Haste sucks for tanks, by the way, so there's no need to discuss it.

Taelas
02-15-2008, 04:03 PM
Yeah, I don't understand why this isn't going to be a universal change in the haste mechanics.

...or make it so Haste bring OUR GCD to a 1 sec?

I think the devs are caster-crazy these days.


It has nothing to do with being "caster-crazy". GCD management is quite simply much more an issue for non-casters. Rogues, Feral druids, warriors, hunters all revolve around the GCD for practically everything. Casters simply do not benefit as much from a lowered GCD (though make no mistake, they DO benefit).

Taelas
02-15-2008, 04:06 PM
Haste sucks for tanks, by the way, so there's no need to discuss it.

Eh. I disagree, it doesn't suck. It's not great, but it's still decent. It simply means you have to be more careful with your Heroic Strike-spam.

Sidousai
02-15-2008, 09:27 PM
Bottom line:

Haste on tanking pieces that I will likely pickup as part of progression anyway..... I'm not going to complain about any freebie stats that will boost my threat (except to whine about not having more stam).

Sidousai
Last Stand!
Shield Wall!

Dragaan
02-15-2008, 09:34 PM
guys...ur forgetting something. haste will greatly improve the benefit of parry rating. A parry will already grant you up to a 40% speed bonus on your next swing, so who knows, with enough haste rating (after you are satisfied in all other areas) your parries can turn out to be near-instant counterattacks...

all-in-all, from what i've seen so far, I think blizz is starting to do a GREAT job with itemization for tanks (esp warriors).

Dots
02-15-2008, 10:03 PM
Eh. I disagree, it doesn't suck. It's not great, but it's still decent. It simply means you have to be more careful with your Heroic Strike-spam.

Haste does in fact sort of suck. It is a very minor improvement for a pretty high item budget cost. All you need for faster heroic strikes is a faster weapon, not some rating. And the Dragonscale-Encrusted Longblade is already a bit faster than the T6 tanking weapons.