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Rishkkin
02-07-2008, 06:33 AM
Hello !

I'm currently using Fireguard on which I added a battlemaster enchant. I'm considering switching over a S1 weapon (fist maybe) With a mongoose on it. (I'm undead so I have no weapon related racial)

Switching from the Fireguard to the S1 weapon, will allow me to switch back to armorsmith and use again my T1 armor (BoK).


I already have 13k honor, grinding the missing 5k won't be an issue.

Would all this be a good move ?

Thunderhorse
02-10-2008, 01:40 PM
I was also pondering this question. although id be going from krystaliine kopesh to an S1 wep.

For me, both the sword and the ripper would be an upgrade but i noticed the ripper has higher top end damage and was wonering if that would be better than the sword.

basically, i dont NEED the defense anymore and would like to have a wep that generates more damage and threat.

obviously there are heroics that i could run to get better weps but i can run AV while im at work get that 18k in a day easy :D

Rishkkin
02-13-2008, 11:18 AM
sorry for the bump, but I'd really like to get an answer for that one.

I'll be hitting 18k honor tonight after some BGs and don't really want to spend those points in vain.

One other point that makes me hesitate is the slow speed of arena weapons 2.6 vs 1.6 for the Fireguard ...


would the move be a good idea at all ?

loquatious
02-13-2008, 11:22 AM
sorry for the bump, but I'd really like to get an answer for that one.

I'll be hitting 18k honor tonight after some BGs and don't really want to spend those points in vain.

One other point that makes me hesitate is the slow speed of arena weapons 2.6 vs 1.6 for the fireguard...


would the move be a good idea at all ?

Not sure what your role is. Are you a tank or DPS.

If you are a tank you want the fast weapon. If you are DPS probably the slow Gladiator weapon and the chest upgrade make more sense.

Rishkkin
02-13-2008, 11:31 AM
Not sure what your role is. Are you a tank or DPS.

If you are a tank you want the fast weapon. If you are DPS probably the slow Gladiator weapon and the chest upgrade make more sense.

Sorry, I should have stated what is my role.

I strive to be an OT. I went a few times in Kara so far, but nothing past Maiden / Opera.

I'm currently have 11.6k HP, 15.2k armor, 480 defense (but have the S2 Shield).

jlafleur
02-13-2008, 12:00 PM
2.6 speed weapon is a fury warrior weapon.

Rishkkin
02-13-2008, 12:20 PM
k, so I guess that those 18k spent on S1 weapons would be a waste.

How about switching my Ragesteel Shoulders to Gladiator's Plate Shoulders ?

jlafleur
02-13-2008, 12:28 PM
Yes, those pvp shoulders would be an upgrade over ragesteel. Since you have the s2 shield, there probably isn't anything else you would really buy for honor that you would use to tank but can't say for certain since I don't know what the rest of your gear looks like.

Look at Berg's gear guide if you are trying to see what would be an upgrade.

http://www.theoryspot.com/forums/gear-lists-rankings/32083-berg-s-tank-gear-rankings-02-10-2008-wow-2-4-a.html

As for a starting tank weapon, get Grom'Tor's Charge. Fireguard will do until then.

Rishkkin
02-13-2008, 12:35 PM
As for a starting tank weapon, get Grom'Tor's Charge. Fireguard will do until then.wouldn't that be a downgrade ? Grom'Tor's Charge compared to Fireguard it is almost 17 DPS of lower

f4t4bb0t
02-13-2008, 05:42 PM
yes it would be a downgrade, stick with the fireguard. As far as using honor to replace your tanking gear, just make sure your meeting your 490 defense and not gimping your avoidance too bad. Usually you see PvP gear substitued in for Threat Gear instead of normal tanking gear though b/c while the sta is nice your gimping your avoidance and SBV you would be getting from your traditional tanking gear. Check out the link above me that Jlafluer posted as well =)

Schue
02-14-2008, 01:38 AM
The S1 chest is comparable to the Armorsmith T1 chest. Use your current sword and get the S1 chest.

Do not take Gromtor Charge over your current sword, get the primal nethers to upgrade to the T2 sword.

Rishkkin
02-14-2008, 06:40 AM
Ok, so I bought the Shoulders last night, I'll be working to get the chest piece next.

I'll have to cheat the socket though in order to stay close to the 490 def, I already fell to 478 just by using the shield + shoulders.

I also respec in order to get 3 more points in anticipation, this will help a little. (I'll loose points in vitality for that)

Here's my armory profile if you happen to want to see it. Any comments welcomed.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Area+52&n=Sheldreyn

xeriah
02-15-2008, 01:57 AM
With that shield and those shoudlers, you have 50 resilience, which results in a 1.27% less chance to be crit.

30 defense skill (so not rating) gives 1.2% less chance to be crit. So the normal 490-defense-cap drops for you to about 460 defense that is needed to be uncrittable.

So don't be afraid to use that margin and let your defense drop to 460 if that makes the rest of your gear better :)

jlafleur
02-15-2008, 09:42 AM
xeriah, based on your logic, why not drop down the 350 defense and become uncritable with just resilience? One or two piece of arena gear might be fine for heroic or raid tanking but no one uses full arena gear. More than 490 defense doesn't hurt either. That "better" gear you are refering to isn't arena gear. Defense does more than just provide uncritability. It also provides miss, dodge, parry and block which are important to avoiding crushing blows (in raids) and just plain staying alive. Resilience only does one really useful tanking thing --- uncritability. Usually resilience is only used in tanking to provide uncritability when you sacrifice defense for resistance (shadow, nature, etc). Resilience can be more easily stacked in these cases to maintain uncritability in addition to maxing resistance.

Grom'Tor's Charge and Fireguard are both fine tanking weapons. Neither is necessarily an upgrade or downgrade over the other. It depends on the situation. Grom'Tor's Charge is a superior mitigation weapon over Fireguard. Fireguard is a superior agro weapon over Grom'Tor's Charge. DPS is isn't a major source of threat and you shouldn't have issues generating rage due to the fact that hard hitting mobs are beating on you. Your threat generation comes from your abilities (devastate, revenge and shield slam being at the core). Fireguard isn't handy when you are dead. Grom'Tor's Charge provides some avoidance as well as additional stamina. When I'm tanking a new heroics, I go high mitigation over agro. I'd rather stay alive and take it slower, then get it done fast but die.

Sheldreyn, there isn't any reason not to max both vitality and anticipation in your talent spec. They are core tanking talents.

jlafleur
02-15-2008, 10:57 AM
Sheldreyn,

TM isn't a very good tanking talent. Rarely if ever do you need to stance dance. I'd recommend dropping that altogether and maxing anticipation for starters. No reason to not have anticpation maxed in any tanking talent build. Improved defensive stance isn't great either. I'd certainly max vitality over that as more health is useful in every tanking situation rather than imp def stance which is only situationally useful.

Rarely are socket bonuses any good or worth gemming for. By default, socket tanking gear with 12 stam gems if you can afford it. If you need defense to reach 490, then gem +4 def/6 stam. Here are some other easily obtainable (non-drop) gear suggestions.

By the way, you already have a lot of good gear.

1. All 12 stam gems in your helm. KOT enchant when you are KOT revered.
2. Strength of the Untamed neck CE revered.
3. Cloak of Eternity tailor crafted.
4. S1 chest sockets with stamina, Chestguard of the Stoic Guardian with badges or hope for kara drop.
5. All 12 stam gems in your gloves.
6. All 12 stam gems in your legs.
7. Sha'tari Wrought Greaves or Flesh Beast's Metal Greaves from dungeon quests.
8. Wind Trader's Band from netherstorm quest or Protector's Mark of the Redemption from SMV quest or Delicate Eternium Ring JC crafted for Amber Band of the Champion.
9. 18 stam enchant on your shield.
10. Gyro-Balance Khorium Destroyer.
12. Dabiri's Enigma from Netherstorm quest.

Since you are a blacksmith, try to get the Red Havok Boot pattern from a friend or the AH and make them. Easy mats, huge upgrade.

If you have other gear questions, then just take a look at Berg's guide on this site.

http://www.theoryspot.com/forums/gear-lists-rankings/32083-berg-s-tank-gear-rankings-02-10-2008-wow-2-4-a.html

xeriah
02-15-2008, 04:20 PM
jlafleur, just to make things clear: i never said or meant that defense is useless. It is, even above 490. I was just reacting to I'll have to cheat the socket though in order to stay close to the 490 def,.

I wanted to point out that it wasn't needed as long as he is above 460 defense with that res. So if he has a better tanking item without def (but with e.g. dodge and parry), he can use that instead of the one with def.

Rishkkin
02-21-2008, 08:31 AM
Sheldreyn, there isn't any reason not to max both vitality and anticipation in your talent spec. They are core tanking talents.

What would you suggest to drop ?

I really enjoy AM for situations where I get rage starved

Rishkkin
02-21-2008, 08:38 AM
1. All 12 stam gems in your helm. KOT enchant when you are KOT revered.
--> I'm almost revered (1 BM run away) iT's on my to-do list

2. Strength of the Untamed neck CE revered.
-> I'll work on that one

3. Cloak of Eternity tailor crafted.
--> got 1 actually, I also got Burnese of the Shifting sand (BM cloak)

4. S1 chest sockets with stamina, Chestguard of the Stoic Guardian with badges or hope for kara drop.
--> I'll switch the sockets

5. All 12 stam gems in your gloves.
--> same

6. All 12 stam gems in your legs.
--> same

7. Sha'tari Wrought Greaves or Flesh Beast's Metal Greaves from dungeon quests.
--> I'll work on that one, for now

8. Wind Trader's Band from netherstorm quest or Protector's Mark of the Redemption from SMV quest or Delicate Eternium Ring JC crafted for Amber Band of the Champion.
--> Noted

9. 18 stam enchant on your shield.
--> Duh, I can't believe I forgot that one

10. Gyro-Balance Khorium Destroyer.
--> I'm currently planning on dropping mining to get ENG in order to craft theh Tank Helm, I could also get the mats for this one

12. Dabiri's Enigma from Netherstorm quest.
-> still in my quest log

Since you are a blacksmith, try to get the Red Havok Boot pattern from a friend or the AH and make them. Easy mats, huge upgrade.
--> About 2kG to craft but I'll work on that (pattern + mats)



Thanks !

jlafleur
02-21-2008, 10:38 AM
Talent suggestions.

1. Drop 2/5 Iron Will and put those points in 2/3 Imp Heroic Strike.

2. Drop 3/3 Tactical Mastery.

3. Increase Anticipation from 3/5 to 5/5.

4. Drop 3/3 Imp Defensive Stance.

5. Increase Vitality from 2/5 to 5/5.

That should leave you with one extra point. For that you might consider 1/5 Imp Demo Shout, 1/2 Imp Bloodrage or fill out Imp Heroic Strike.

Essentially a cookie-cutter protection build.

Rishkkin
02-21-2008, 11:01 AM
Talent suggestions.

1. Drop 2/5 Iron Will and put those points in 2/3 Imp Heroic Strike.

2. Drop 3/3 Tactical Mastery.

3. Increase Anticipation from 3/5 to 5/5.

4. Drop 3/3 Imp Defensive Stance.

5. Increase Vitality from 2/5 to 5/5.

That should leave you with one extra point. For that you might consider 1/5 Imp Demo Shout, 1/2 Imp Bloodrage or fill out Imp Heroic Strike.

Essentially a cookie-cutter protection build.
Ok, I'll spend another 50G tonight :-P