PDA

View Full Version : How many prot tanks for SSC & TK



Bonerot
02-06-2008, 05:03 PM
Currently we have 4 tanks with gear capable of contributing to our progression fights. VR killed, learning lurker and al'ar.

2 Prot spec warriors, 1 prot spec paladin and one feral druid.

Is this too many for these dungeons? I'm wondering if it wouldn't be more useful to me to respec fury with some points in the generating threat in defensive stance with blood thirst.

What types of tanks (and specs) do people normally bring for stuff like VR, Al'ar and lurker?

Rak
02-06-2008, 05:23 PM
For TK we bring three prot tanks. For SSC we bring four. On some fights they don't do anything, but on some fights we need them.

Keimorl
02-06-2008, 06:24 PM
We have two prot warriors, two feral druids, and a pally who can go prot or holy depending on what we need. Seems to give us options for all of the fights we've faced so far, and we are working on Alar and Karathress.

To answer your question specifically on fights we have completed...

Void Reaver - Two warrs and two druids tank. Pally is Holy and heals.
Hydross - Two warrs on boss, two druids on adds. Pally is Holy and heals.
Lurker - Two warrs on boss (Phase I), two warrs and one druid on adds (Phase II). One druid DPSes and pally is Holy and heals.
Tidewalker - Druid on boss, pally is Prot and tanks murlocs. Two warrs help with murlocs and one druid DPSes boss.
Leo - Two warrs and one druid on boss (Phase I), lock tanks (Phase II). Other druid DPSes. Pally is Holy and heals lock.

Hope this helps.

Worldie
02-06-2008, 06:39 PM
In theory 3 prot tanks are enough. Bring a feral druid or two if you need to fill "tanking slots", so they can dps on the other fights.

Cairn
02-06-2008, 06:57 PM
3/4 prot spec tanking (palatank, war, druid) is needed for SSC/TK but if u got for only 1/2 boss u can specify little be more ur raid line up and taking a dps to replace a tank.

We have 2 war prot , 1 feral druid and 1 prot paladin .

Noraxe
02-06-2008, 07:03 PM
Mainly we just have(as many others) 2 prot tanks, 2 feral druids(one dosent have teh 10% inc dmg talent point so I assign the one with to dps if only 3 are needed) and a pally tank.
SSC:

Hydros: Total 4 tanks
Me and other prot warrior on hydros, pally tank and 1st druid on elementals, get down druids first.

Lurker: Total 4 tanks
Me on lurker, other warrior on my left, feral druid on right, pally across the lurker puddle. druids submerge mob first, pallys, then warriors. The warrior is in dps gear during this fight just equipping some def items. Pally is in about 50/50 gear, druid about the same as the warrior.

Moro: Total 2 tanks
Me on Moro, Pally on murlocks. warrior and druid raid guard north and south to see if the murlocks are going for some clothies.

Fathom-Lord: Total 5 tanks
Me on priest, prot warrior Fathomlord, druid(with 10% inc dmg) on hunter, pally on hunter pet and main druid tank on shaman. Kill hunter(pally has taken pet in the mean while.), kill pet, kill shaman, kill priest and fathomlord ofc :P During the fight after the pet is dead the pally will keep an eye on the healers to check if their life is up.

Leo: Total 1 tank(sort of ;) )
Me on normal phase, fire res lock in demon phase(want to try having a prot tank in demon phase one day). Druids dps, innervate and battleres if needed.
Pally raid heal.

Vashj: Total 2 tanks
Me Vashj first phase, pally nagas second while I take the core and sunder striders and help places where the tainted is with killing the mobs that get through. third phase me again. Prot warrior dps, druids dps, innervate and battleress.

TK:

Al'ar: Total 4-5 tanks
First phase:3-4 on each spot upper deck. Me running if we are doing with 3. Pally takes birds. Second phase: 2-3 on Al'ar(10% inc dmg druid), main driud tank helps pally tank gathering small birdies.

Solarian: Total 3 tanks
Me on Solarian, Pally on agents, prot warrior dps/tank priests. Druids dps.

VR: Total 3 tanks
Me, main druid tank and prot warrior on VR. 1 druid dps. pally healing
(Tried pally tanking instead of druid today, but sadly wasn't that high on the trheat meter).

Kael: Still in progress (67%) :(

Hope this helps. Night writing makes me allways write to much bs :/ But this is how we usually do it :)

Bonerot
02-06-2008, 07:54 PM
thanks, I think that help a lot to plan for the next few bosses we will be working on.

Worldie
02-06-2008, 08:39 PM
Suggestion, on leo have the prot paladin on human phase and get yourself on demon phase, does wonders :)
And on VR let him go first and give him a shadow priest, don't waste a tank healing while the druids could be dpsing.

Nicki
02-06-2008, 08:47 PM
Mainly we just have(as many others) 2 prot tanks, 2 feral druids(one dosent have teh 10% inc dmg talent point so I assign the one with to dps if only 3 are needed) and a pally tank.
SSC:

Hydros: Total 4 tanks
Me and other prot warrior on hydros, pally tank and 1st druid on elementals, get down druids first.

Lurker: Total 4 tanks
Me on lurker, other warrior on my left, feral druid on right, pally across the lurker puddle. druids submerge mob first, pallys, then warriors. The warrior is in dps gear during this fight just equipping some def items. Pally is in about 50/50 gear, druid about the same as the warrior.

Moro: Total 2 tanks
Me on Moro, Pally on murlocks. warrior and druid raid guard north and south to see if the murlocks are going for some clothies.

Fathom-Lord: Total 5 tanks
Me on priest, prot warrior Fathomlord, druid(with 10% inc dmg) on hunter, pally on hunter pet and main druid tank on shaman. Kill hunter(pally has taken pet in the mean while.), kill pet, kill shaman, kill priest and fathomlord ofc :P During the fight after the pet is dead the pally will keep an eye on the healers to check if their life is up.

Leo: Total 1 tank(sort of ;) )
Me on normal phase, fire res lock in demon phase(want to try having a prot tank in demon phase one day). Druids dps, innervate and battleres if needed.
Pally raid heal.

Vashj: Total 2 tanks
Me Vashj first phase, pally nagas second while I take the core and sunder striders and help places where the tainted is with killing the mobs that get through. third phase me again. Prot warrior dps, druids dps, innervate and battleress.

TK:

Al'ar: Total 4-5 tanks
First phase:3-4 on each spot upper deck. Me running if we are doing with 3. Pally takes birds. Second phase: 2-3 on Al'ar(10% inc dmg druid), main driud tank helps pally tank gathering small birdies.

Solarian: Total 3 tanks
Me on Solarian, Pally on agents, prot warrior dps/tank priests. Druids dps.

VR: Total 3 tanks
Me, main druid tank and prot warrior on VR. 1 druid dps. pally healing
(Tried pally tanking instead of druid today, but sadly wasn't that high on the trheat meter).

Kael: Still in progress (67%) :(

Hope this helps. Night writing makes me allways write to much bs :/ But this is how we usually do it :)

im intrigued, did you not let the paladin start on void reaver? ive never had a problem on him even with lower gear levels and held him for up to 60% of the fight... =\ ive heard stories of 95% of the fight a paladin holding void reaver..

Either your paladin sucks or you aren't accomidating, its like trying to get a frost mage to dps a fire immune mob or an arcane mage without a shadow priest T_T...

Try the paladin on leo one day its a fight the class is literally made for, if he fails I swear hes not a tank. Ok thats a bit harsh meh..personally I can solo tank normal phase as a paladin without a shaman totem or even a hunter missdirect but thats a gear thing :P I have an unmissible 30 yard range 1200 threat move ^_^...I think you may find if you let the pally go first and tell him to put on threat orientated gear he will shine on void reaver it is mana intensive but so is healing as prot spec...

Notalda
02-07-2008, 01:03 AM
We bring 3 tank specced people tops, 2 prot warrs, 1 pally.

SSC

Hydross: 1 FrR tank, 1 NR tank, the pally with 100/100 FrR/NR tanks all 3 adds, the fourth is taunted off by the prot warr who is not tanking Hydross that phase.

Lurker: 1 tank for the boss, 3 for the adds when submerged.

Morogrim: 1 tank for the boss, pally for the murlocs. Second tank AoE-taunts if the paladin gets graved at the wrong time.

Leotheras: 1 prot warr for the human form, another for the demon, pally goes healing gear.

Fathom-Lord: 1 warr on Karathress, another on shaman, paladin on hunter+pet, fury warrior on the priest.

Vashj: 1 prot warr for Vashj, 1 for the nagas in phase 2 (the other one, or the pally, helps with picking them up and bringing them to the middle).

TK:

Al'ar: 2 tanks on the platforms, the paladin tanks the adds.

Solarian: 1 tank on the boss, paladin for the adds. The priest adds get nuked down and stun-locked by melee.

VR: All three tanks go into an aggro fight

Kael'thas:
Phase 1: MT tanks them all, except Capernian (and Thaladred, who is kited obviously).
Phase 2: Paladin AoE-tanks the weapons, one warrior grabs the axe and takes it away, the other (who will MT Kael) taunts the shield and a sword off.
Phase 3: MT on Sanguinar, Paladin on the engineer, second tank keeps the dagger debuff up on Thaladred.
Phase 4: Paladin aggros and kites the phoenixes, the second prot warr assists with removing the mind controls.

Three tanks have been enough for us so far, never ever needed more. Same goes for Hyjal (clear) & BT (working on RoS atm).

Anenome
02-07-2008, 04:48 AM
We have two prot warriors, two feral druids, and a pally who can go prot or holy depending on what we need. Seems to give us options for all of the fights we've faced so far, and we are working on Alar and Karathress.

To answer your question specifically on fights we have completed...

Void Reaver - Two warrs and two druids tank. Pally is Holy and heals.
Hydross - Two warrs on boss, two druids on adds. Pally is Holy and heals.
Lurker - Two warrs on boss (Phase I), two warrs and one druid on adds (Phase II). One druid DPSes and pally is Holy and heals.
Tidewalker - Druid on boss, pally is Prot and tanks murlocs. Two warrs help with murlocs and one druid DPSes boss.
Leo - Two warrs and one druid on boss (Phase I), lock tanks (Phase II). Other druid DPSes. Pally is Holy and heals lock.

Hope this helps.

- Bah, as a pallytank this makes me sad. There's lil difference between asking a pally to respecc holy than asking a warri to respecc to dps. By doubling on warris you lose much of the synergies and unique qualities prot pallies bring. Conventional wisdom that pally OT threat is weak is in fact false, a pally can stack spelldmg and OT better than a warri can OT if he's good. VR I OT'd until threat came my way (MT lost it, right to me), then held threat through the 4th threat-reducing knockback. Hydross we have 2 warris in full resist gear, me in 1/2 and 1/2, and I consecrate / taunt and pickup all 4 adds in a heartbeat, bring them back to Hydross and AOE them down on top of him. No 4th tank needed. Lurker, I built OT threat keeping wisdom going, our MT went down last fight at ~25%, I received threat and jumped in to finish him off successfully. Tidewalker, 1 warri/druid tank on boss, me on adds with a hunter dropping slowing-trap to slow the rear murlocs. Leo, warri's kickback and dps, pallies are just plain better tanks on Leo. Karathress, drop me on Tidalvass or Sharkiss and we're good to go.
But one thing my raid has never, ever done... is ask me to respecc holy and heal.

Nicki
02-07-2008, 06:13 AM
If you are using a paladin and making them spec holy for fights your doing something wrong. Or did 2.3 patch notes pass you by personally id gquit if I was told to spec holy for a fight where I could tank.

Also I LOVE the 2 warriors and 1 druid on Leo, I SOLO TANK LEO thats 2x more effective because the druid is doing mediocre dps and the warriors could be switched out if needed.

Using a paladin as prot for 1 fight in SSC? stop living in the past ffs l2use them as tanks unless their rubbish their viable all the way up to illidan. (ok give or take a certain phase 2 of a certain boss..)...

maddfez
02-07-2008, 08:16 AM
We run with two prot warriors, two feral druids, and a 20/41/0 specced paladin who heals about half the time and tanks the other half. It's worked really well so far (4/5 MH, 2/9 BT).

The only fight we've ever needed to change around for is Hydross...we struggled terribly on that fight and eventually just put DPS warriors in resist gear to help on adds. One shot ever since.

Rak
02-07-2008, 01:58 PM
Also I LOVE the 2 warriors and 1 druid on Leo, I SOLO TANK LEO thats 2x more effective because the druid is doing mediocre dps and the warriors could be switched out if needed.

I solo tank Leo too, and I'm a warrior. After my first ever wipe on that boss the pick ups were a breeze, not sure why people make such a big deal out of it.

Notalda
02-07-2008, 04:30 PM
If you are using a paladin and making them spec holy for fights your doing something wrong. Or did 2.3 patch notes pass you by personally id gquit if I was told to spec holy for a fight where I could tank.


I dunno if that was aimed at me, but no, we're not making our prot pally spec holy for any fights. He just goes and heals if he has nothing to tank, as he can do that reasonably well, while he can't do DPS at all. We're not letting him tank, 'cos then what would the other prot warrior do? The pally can heal, no matter what spec (he has decent healing gear aswell), the prot warrior can do nothing but tank. We tried it once, one of our tanks specced fury and topped the meters on Archimonde, he came just above the MT on the next kill when he was prot spec, using the same gear as when he topped the charts.

So yeah... we make the pally heal, 'cos he can do that, while the warriors can't DPS. He does not respec for any fight tho.

He does respec for arenas, mind you, and sometimes tanks as holy, which is quite funny, but that's another thing.

Worldie
02-07-2008, 05:10 PM
Prot warrior's DPS in dps gear is actually quite competitive. In most fights, you'd rather want a extra DPS than a additional healer, since you usually tune your raid to have enough healers anyway. Expecially in fights like Leotheras where DPS is the key and not healing.
Archimonde isn't really a good example since that's a survivabilty fight and not a dps race, yes there the paladin should be healing if he wants.
For those DPS races where every little bit help, and there's some in SSC, in theory it's better havign the paladin tanking and druid/warriors "dps". Unless you outgear, obviously.

Anenome
03-11-2008, 01:55 AM
I got another shot at VR recently, held him for ~95% of the fight. Lost him for about 20 seconds to our warrior, didn't last long. This time I went in as MT tho. I had been reading up on his damage and theorized that he couldn't do any crushing blows, since it looked like all his damage was arcane damage from the various writeups, so I was in full threat gear. Well, no dice, I started taking crushing blows, but the funny thing was it wasn't enough damage to shake our healers they said the healing was fine, and it ended up giving me back more mana, lol. What I did do was switch on my +block libram when I realize I would be taking CBs. So healers didn't have to switch heal targets, and threat was fine.

loquatious
03-11-2008, 07:03 AM
I hate having more than 2 Prot warriors in a raid (and i'm a prot warrior :-).

IDEALY I'd bring 1 prot warrior (2 max), 2 Feral druids, 1 Prot pally, and 1-2 DPS warriors who have decent prot gear. This is a tanking team thats versatile and can handle all of SSC/TK while maximizing DPS on the bosses that dont require dedicated tanks.

loquatious
03-11-2008, 07:08 AM
Prot warrior's DPS in dps gear is actually quite competitive. .

I wish mine were! We are 5/6 3/4 and I have about 1700 AP in DPS gear, useing morogrim tidewalker as an example my dps is about 450 dps, I'm in berserker stance spamming WW and Devastate. Most of the dps is doing about 900-1200 so my epeen simply shrivels :)

I know there is a nice Arms/Prot hybrid build but I'm normally MT and dont want to loose the top tier Prot talents or 5/5 Demoralizing shout.

Nuberino
03-11-2008, 08:01 AM
5/5 Demoralizing shout. is mostly worthless. Mostly.

Kaganda
03-24-2008, 11:11 AM
is mostly worthless. Mostly.

Unless you factor in Curse of Recklessness. Imp Demo nearly negates the AP gain of the mob, giving the raid another option to increase DPS. That being said, the only spec that can really afford to put 5/5 into it is a 33/28 BF build.

EDIT: To the OP, I would recommend you have four tanks available for T5 content. While you wont always need four, there are fights that you don't want to do with less. We run 2 Wars, 1 Pally, 1 Druid in our raids and it works well for us. For fights where we need less than four, the Druid goes into murderkitty form, and one of the Wars goes DPS. Now, Prot DPS is not fantastic, but he'll do ~600, which is good enough if you dont have a DPS waiting outside.

Wholydiver
03-29-2008, 06:41 PM
Prot DPS varies pretty widely by spec, as there is alot of leeway in where you spend you points as a prot warrior. We have 3 prot warriors, a prot pally, and a feral druid. I'm 11/7/43, one of the warriors is 5/0/56 and the other is 7/10/44. We're just starting to head into SSC and TK though, so some of that might end up changing. Tha being said, I get tired of never tanking anything other than adds and kara, so I'm probably going to be respec'n to somethin else. It would certainly seem as though we have too many prot tanks for TK and SSC.

Dubbleutyeff
04-24-2008, 09:40 AM
I have a question: would it be more effective for a warrior to respec DPS and wear their tank gear when needed for offtanking, or for a warrior to spec Prot and wear their DPS gear when not needed for tanking?

Kavtor
04-24-2008, 10:09 AM
A prot warrior in DPS gear can do pretty fair DPS.
A fury warrior in prot gear is going to do pretty poor TPS.

But if he's not going to be tanking something that requires TPS, he'll be fine. If he's tanking trash, or L72 boss adds, incoming damage won't really be an issue either. But if he's tanking something that can hit hard and crush you'll want improved shield block.

Kamani
04-25-2008, 03:36 PM
We use two prot warriors, one protadin, and two feral druids. We also have a full Season 3 Warrior who just throws on his Vengeful shield/sword and he has 16k health and 18k armor, so he is capable of tanking any trash we come across.

Reaver: Warriors and 1 Druid, other druid dps and pally heals.
Al'ar: Warrior Druid Pally on Platform p1, Warrior/Warrior on Al'ar p2 and Pally/Druid on adds p2
Solarian: Warrior on Solar, Druid/War on Priests

Lurker: Warrior on boss, Warrior/Druid on other 2 guardians
Hydross: Frost/Nature warrior on boss, Protadin on 2 adds, Warrior/Druid on other 2
Moro: Druid on boss, Protadin on adds, Warriors spamming intervene when up
Karathress: Druid on shammy, who cares on the rest
Leo: Druid/War/War on human, lock on demon.
Vashj: Warrior/Warrior on vashj and nagas

klor
04-25-2008, 03:54 PM
Personally, my guild has myself as the only prot warrior, 2 prot pallies, and 2 feral druids.

In SSC, we typically run 4 tanks.

I main tank all the bosses (nature tank also) and we have one prot pally pick up his hydross and all the adds. I pick up the strays as does the nature pally who picks up all the adds while I tank hydross. This way I can push out enough threat to allow DPS to nuke hard on hydross for my phase.

Lurker its a mix and match again of whoever shows up.

Morogrimm, I tank, the two pallies pick up the adds..feral dps.

Fathomlord. Pally on hunter and shaman, i'm on fathom and druid on priest. Sometimes we put the druid on the shammy and the pally on the priest depending on heals.

For Vashj, I'm really the only tank in the fight. The pallies spec holy or toss on holy gear and the druids dps.

Leo, we all just fight for agro with a lock tank.