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Leytur
02-06-2008, 08:07 AM
What is a viable substitute for them? Not including raids. Murmur is just being a d-bag.

TaiSHi
02-06-2008, 08:23 AM
/agreed

ebs2002
02-06-2008, 08:24 AM
Heroic Sethekk Halls has Spaulders of Dementia.
If that's too difficult at your gear level, I wore Warchief's Mantle from the Durnholde quest until I got the Spaulders of Dementia, and I used them through the first half of Karazhan.

Marrick
02-06-2008, 08:27 AM
Murmur's shoulders are a myth... -.-

ebs suggestions are both viable to get you going until you reach raiding gear.

Anglachel
02-06-2008, 08:33 AM
i use the S1 shoulders, lots of armor and stamina

Elyrion
02-06-2008, 12:05 PM
Had this same problem. Rolled Murmur a bunch but never seen them drop. Course when I run my mage and my buddy has his warrior we've seen them drop 3x:mad:

I went out and spent two weeks in the battlegrounds to get the S1 shoulders when I had the chance. Could probably do it much faster if you focused solely on that. The stamina and armor are a signifigant upgrade over the Bold -- use even just one solid star and you've got more health than the bold would give you with two. Even though you lose defense the resilience can make up for some of that to keep you uncrittable.

Until then, I did use the Warchief's Mantle as well.

Radhja
02-06-2008, 12:51 PM
the Shoulderguards of the Bold are hard to acquire. Lucky me for them 3rd trip thru Slabs (norm). If you're not quite up to Heroics yet, farm AV for honor for the S1 shoulders. Otherwise, there's not many suitable replacements until you're running Setthek Halls for the Spaulders of Dementia.

Good luck!

SionaAmanThul
02-07-2008, 05:25 AM
I think the Gladiator Shoulders are 15K honor and 20 AB tokens. That's what I'm grinding now because Spaulders of Dementia haven't dropped for me. About 7-10 days of AB and you have your shoulders.

Talani
02-07-2008, 06:33 AM
It is great to see others have the same trouble with drops..I just thought I was really unlucky.

Kendoka
02-07-2008, 05:31 PM
The Shoulderguards of the Bold is an elusive item. It seems like a general consensus that this item is hard to acquire. It me countless runs to actually get it. I use to get whispers why I am still wearing Warchief's Mantle and not the Bold shoulders from Murmur. Well, it not like I wasnt trying to get it, but running 3-5 time of Slab in one day gets to you. Long story short, I manage to get mine while I was farming and a friend of mine aske me to talk the last two bosses on them because their tank had to leave. I went, and came out a new shoulders :)

Taelas
02-07-2008, 11:20 PM
I got the shoulders on Norrath's first run -- at level 68. :p Go figure.

If you can go to Heroic Auchenai Crypts, Fanblade Pauldrons are the best pre-Karazhan shoulders (even better than Spaulders of Dementia, in my opinion, despite the color).

Roana
02-07-2008, 11:35 PM
As far as I can tell, Murmur's loot table has 12 entries, organized in two columns of six each. Each run, he drops one item out of each column (the same is true for most Karazhan bosses -- except Prince drops a token in addition and the Curator drops a token in lieu of one of the columns).

So, you have a 1/6th chance each run to get the shoulders. That means an average of six runs, but there's a 25% chance of them not having dropped after 12 runs, a 12.5% chance of them not having dropped after 18 runs, a 6.25% chance fo them not having dropped after 24 runs, and so forth.

SionaAmanThul
02-08-2008, 06:15 AM
I gave up on the shoulders and am running AB to try and get the S1 shoulders. I'm not sure what is worse, 24 runs of Slabs or 90+ battlegroups? I've done about 40 now and am bored to tears.

Leytur
02-08-2008, 05:21 PM
Well I already have Warchief's Mantle so at least I'm not in horrible shape. . .

SionaAmanThul
02-09-2008, 04:36 AM
That's what I'm using too. I'm trying to dress myself in purple so that I don't have ignorant dps in heroics going "ZOMG...blue shoulders!".

Blackfriday
02-09-2008, 08:47 AM
Fanblade Pauldrons - Items - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=27847)

Fanblade Pauldrons from first boss in Heroic Crypts are OK. I've tanked every heroic and everything in Kara wearing them.

Riksis2
02-09-2008, 09:26 AM
got in 4th run ;)

Kream
02-09-2008, 11:04 AM
Pauldrons of Brute Force got me through Prince in Kara.. I had the Warchief's Mantle but preferred the stats on the former.
Once Shoulderguards of the Bold dropped, I got the Fanblade Pauldrons shortly after, then Mantle of Abrahmis just after that. What a waste of sockets/enchants.

SionaAmanThul
02-09-2008, 01:06 PM
That's what bugs me a bit. You need to go into a raid (Kara) to get the Mantle of Abrahmis but you can relatively easily get Gladiator's Plate Shoulders. To me, the S1 shoulders are almost as good if you already have the defense cap.

Dismember
02-11-2008, 07:24 AM
I actually tanked Kara to completion (regularly) using Warchief's Mantle. Never saw a shoulder upgrade drop until I got T4. Don't be scared of starting Kara with those shoulders.

However, if I could do it over again, I would have been more diligent about Arena earlier on and went with the S2 shoulders for tanking.

Trainwrex
02-11-2008, 08:08 AM
with the drop in stamina going from the Bold to dementia, does the avoidance and armor make up for that drop? i currently have Shouldergaurds of the bold. are the dementia shoulders a direct upgrade or more of an avoidance set piece?

ebs2002
02-11-2008, 10:21 AM
You gain 130armor and lose 15sta with Dementia. You also gain more avoidance and threat (from the crit rating on the shoulders).

Without doing the EH calculations, I'm not sure if you get more with Bold or Dementia, but you will definitely get more avoidance. If I had both, I'd probably wear bold for high spell-damage fights and (possibly depending on EH) high damage-output fights in general. However, I just have the dementia and I'll only get Bold shoulders if it happens to drop on a rep run or Slabs daily.