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Mikas
02-04-2008, 08:12 AM
Hi guys,

until yesterday I was using Merciless Gladiator's Shield Wall and was happy with it until yesterday when Aldori Legacy Defender dropped for me :)

Now I have headache what to use...

I like very much almost +500 armor Arena shield gives me.

On other hand Aldori has +hit what appeals me and defence rating to increase avoidance a little.

Please give some ideas on how to in this case. Your opinions and recommendations are very welcome.

link to armory

http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=aggramar&n=mikas

There are my specs:

with Aldori shield:
Health: 16284
Armor: 17140
Defense: 499
Dodge: 16.76%
Parry: 17.19%
Block: 34.73%
Hit Rating: 54
Expertise: 21

with Arena shield:

Health: 16254
Armor: 17633
Defense: 490
Dodge: 16.40%
Parry: 16.83%
Block: 34.37%
Hit Rating: 39
Expertise: 21

Notalda
02-04-2008, 09:05 AM
I used Aldori for fights where I needed to dish out more threat, S2 shield for any other.

The armor on S2 makes it better than Aldori for mitigation, imo. The amount of +block on the arena shield is pretty sweet aswell.

Conclusion: Keep both!

furiog
02-04-2008, 09:08 AM
I haven't been lucky enough to get an aldori shield yet, so i gave up and am working on the gladiator shield atm. The way I figure it, the gladiator shield is still better, and arena points aren't that tough to come up with.

Keep in mind that the resilience from the gladiator shield drops the defense cap from 490 down to ?472 (i think that's right, but research it 1st), so it also lets you itemize for threat or EH over avoidance on another spot or two.

Aevisabere
02-04-2008, 09:56 AM
You're almost certainly going to want to use the Aldori Legacy Defender. You get a tiny bit more stam, more hit rating (threat gold, and super effective at your current hit rating level) and it's prettier.

The 500 armour you get from the Glad shield is negligible simply for the diminishing returns on armour :( Once you get to the level you're at with AC, you need a ton of armour to squeeze out any noticable amount of extra damage mitigation. If you were aroud 14k armour, that extra 500 would be pretty nice, but at 17k it's not goign to benefit you as much as the hit rating :)

EDIT: Also, that extra defence is going to rock when you need to throw on your resist set. I have the Aldori Legacy Defender, and I only barely got to 490 def (although it's super easy once Hydross drops that awesome trinket.)

ebs2002
02-04-2008, 10:12 AM
The 500 armour you get from the Glad shield is negligible simply for the diminishing returns on armour :( Once you get to the level you're at with AC, you need a ton of armour to squeeze out any noticable amount of extra damage mitigation. If you were aroud 14k armour, that extra 500 would be pretty nice, but at 17k it's not goign to benefit you as much as the hit rating :)

What diminishing return on armor? Armor scales with survivability. 500armor means an increase in survival whether you're at 12k armor or 17k armor. While that pretty "Damage Mitigation" number doesn't increase as much, you have to look at it as a percentage in the damage you were already taking, not the damage the mob does on a clothie.

Nuberino
02-04-2008, 10:16 AM
EDIT: Also, that extra defence is going to rock when you need to throw on your resist set. I have the Aldori Legacy Defender, and I only barely got to 490 def (although it's super easy once Hydross drops that awesome trinket.)

Not to pick, but the 31 resilience is going to benefit a resist gear set far more than 19 defense rating (8 defense points) - in terms of uncritability the 31 resilience is worth 19 Defense points which gives you a lot more flexibility in maxxing out your resists.

kolben
02-04-2008, 10:28 AM
If I had both in my bags, i'd break out the Aldori shield on trash and weaker melee bosses so I could equip a +expertise ring or something like that and really dish out the TPS. Maybe even attach a felsteel shield spike instead of going with the +18 stam enchant.

I think i'd stay with the S2 shield on harder hitting bosses for the additional armor and slight block advantage. I'm not aware of the diminishing returns on armor at or around 17k which is where i'm at (not saying it doesn't exist). Something i've been playing with is actually taking armor pots when low on health instead of health pots. It seems to work out fine, but i'm not on 25 man content yet either.

Nicki
02-04-2008, 10:42 AM
You're almost certainly going to want to use the Aldori Legacy Defender. You get a tiny bit more stam, more hit rating (threat gold, and super effective at your current hit rating level) and it's prettier.

The 500 armour you get from the Glad shield is negligible simply for the diminishing returns on armour :( Once you get to the level you're at with AC, you need a ton of armour to squeeze out any noticable amount of extra damage mitigation. If you were aroud 14k armour, that extra 500 would be pretty nice, but at 17k it's not goign to benefit you as much as the hit rating :)

EDIT: Also, that extra defence is going to rock when you need to throw on your resist set. I have the Aldori Legacy Defender, and I only barely got to 490 def (although it's super easy once Hydross drops that awesome trinket.)

http://www.theoryspot.com/forums/evil-empire-guides/33102-diminishing-returns.html

Summary of the link is each increase in armor provides the same increase in lifespan as the previous increase. Thus armor is not subject to diminishing returns but mitigation is.

And resilience covers uncritible much easier than defense. So the s2 shield is better for resist fights.

Crimsonstorm
02-04-2008, 12:46 PM
S2 Shield is vastly superior to Aldori Legacy Defender.

It has roughly 500 more armor (with toughness), which provides about as much effective health as 30 more stamina, and prevents about as much damage overall as around 16 defense rating (this varies somewhat depending on what your armor and health values are, but not by much, and my values are assuming relatively high armor and health values).

It has 15 more block value, which is worth about 4 stamina of effective health, about 8 hit rating worth of extra threat, and prevents about as much damage as 5 or so defense rating.

Converting the extra armor and block value on the S2 shield into its stam, defense, and hit rating equivalent, we get:

S2 Shield:
82 Stam
8 Hit Rating
21 Defense rating
(31 resilience = lowers defense required to 471)

Aldori Shield w/12 stam gem:
51 Stam
15 Hit rating
21 Defense rating


The difference is about 31 stam vs 7 hit rating. The stam is better, and thus S2 is better.

People who think Aldori Legacy defender is better, or is even close to as good, are ignoring the immense defensive benefits of both the extra armor and the extra block value.

People who ignore the extra armor on S2 shield dont understand its value. Getting more armor is like getting more stamina AND getting more avoidance, it both increases effective health and prevents damage. Getting more block value increases threat generation, effective health, and reduces damage. These stats are two of the best tanking stats.

Mikas
02-06-2008, 03:53 AM
sorry but I do not understand how you can convert BV to +hit...


so many opinions on my subject

Nicki
02-06-2008, 04:19 AM
sorry but I do not understand how you can convert BV to +hit...


so many opinions on my subject

He converted the threat gained from extra block value on S2 and compared it to the threat lost by losing the hit thus converting block value into hit by:

Threatfromblockvalue - threatfromhit = threatfroms2..

Now ofcourse hit is more beneficial for taunt but block value over time would provide an increase to shield slam damage and thus be as effective.