PDA

View Full Version : Tanking set for heroics - threat generation



Goresaw
01-29-2008, 12:26 PM
Up until now I have mostly played my warrior for pvp, but lately I've been focusing on running heroics because I've just found it fun. My guild farms BT/Hyjal and I am not a core raiding member so I do not have access to raiding gear, and in any case I am not interested in raiding. I am only gearing for heroics and maybe the occasional kara, although I might try off tanking ZA if the opportunity presents itself.

I have successfully tanked every heroic except arcatraz and shattered halls (I havnt tried either), most of which with as low as 13k armor and 12.2k hp when I first started tanking them to get nethers for my deep thunder over the summer. Since I started tanking again recently I upgraded my gear by using various pvp pieces, and now I'm at about 16.5k armor and 13.3k hp.

My current gearset is here: Goresaw <Overrated> Korgath (http://korgath-us.warcrafter.net/Goresaw)

What I'm trying to do is upgrade this gear to maximize threat generation to keep up with DPS classes which in my guild are often wearing hyjal/BT level epics. With competent healing I feel like my stamina, armor, and avoidance are more than enough for heroics... my goal is to generate enough threat to essentially never lose aggro.

Here is what I am aiming for: 70 Orc Warrior (http://www.warcrafter.net/sandbox/22015)

I didn't include any new kara pieces because I rarely run kara. If I get some of the better pieces, like the king's defender, great... if not I still want to make the best gearset possible for threat generation in heroics.

Any advice about any pieces I've missed, my enchanting/gemming choices, my gear choices, etc would be much appreciated.

Radhja
01-29-2008, 12:39 PM
The badge gear from G'eras (Naaru in Shattrath) is quite suitable for running heroics. Look into getting the Unwavering Legguards (loaded with +12 Stamina gems and Nethercleft Leg Armor), the Bracers of the Ancient Phalanx (expertise is a golden stat for tanks), and the Brooch of Deftness (Hit Rating AND Expertise on one neckpiece? Sign me up!)

For a weapon, your options are slightly more-limited. The Sun Eater is the best non-raiding, non-swordsmith weapon, and it's a great avoidance piece. I've used mine for months, but don't give up if it doesn't drop the first few times through Mech - it's got an abysmal drop rate, but well worth the effort. You second-best weapon is probably Honor's Call from Honor Hold Quartermaster.

As far as other gear, get whatever is the biggest upgrade for you is. Tanking is all about tailoring your gear to whatever fights you anticipate. Know your instances, know your gear - the rest will come in practice.

Goresaw
01-29-2008, 12:56 PM
No offense, but you must not have looked at the gearsets I posted at all.

I'm using the sun-eater, and all three of those badge rewards are in the gearset that I am shooting for... I'm also horde so honor's call is obviously out.

I'm really looking for something I may have missed in the gearset I posted as my wishlist or whatever... If people don't want to click the link here's what its got:

helm of the stalwart defender (wastes stats on resilience but is still better than felsteel helm.. other options include s1 or headless horseman's)

brooch of deftness

s1 shoulders

s2 chestpiece

bracers of the ancient phalanx

gauntlets of the iron maiden

lion heart's girdle

unwavering legguards

s3 boots

kara honored ring

LC exalted expertise ring

commander badge (45 stam)

adamantine figurine (SL normal drop)

the boomstick ranged weapon

s1 shield

sun-eater



I do not think socketing all stam is the best choice, simply because I dont think I need more than about 13k hp unbuffed for heroics... like I said I havn't done arcatraz or shattered halls yet, but I may never, and all of the others I have tanked successfully with under 13k hp and much less armor than I have now.

Instead I socketed a good bit of +hit and some agi/hit gems... the gearset I just listed ends up with about 17.1k armor, 13.5k hp, 31&#37; dodge+parry, and 98 hit rating (>6%), 23 experitse (5.75%), about 17% crit and 800 attack power

what can I do to improve this theat set?


some other things I've thought of:

the orc racial is 5 expertise with axes, but the only "tanking" axe I would have access to is the thrallmar exalted one, and I'm not real excited about farming rep for exalted with thrallmar, but I could do it... the other option is the s1 mainhand axe. Should I use either of these over the sun eater? its the equivalent of almost 20 expertise rating just to gain the benefit of the racial.

I havnt crafted the stalwart defender helm yet... what about the s1 or headless horseman helm? I'd lose some defense, is it worth it?

Radhja
01-29-2008, 01:24 PM
To be fair, no I didn't click the links.

In fact, I didn't read anything in that last post either. :)

So, reroll alliance already? (Why are you playing horde anyway?)

Irghen
01-29-2008, 03:48 PM
Ok, I'm only going to make some comments on your sandbox items I think you're missing if you're gearing for threat.
First of all, don't go alliance, that's for little girls.

On to the gear:
Main Hand:
The Sun Eater is good for avoidance and Mongoose really makes it shine. But threatwise, it's incredibly inferior IMHO to the KD. Try to get your hands on the KD and get Executioner on it. If you're really desperate you may want to get Executioner on the Sun Eater but remember it really doesn't play into the weapon's strenghts. You may also want to look into the Warbringer since you're an orc but I don't think it makes up for the lost speed when spamming HS.

Off Hand
Petrified Lichen Guard May be a good choice for weak trash that doesn't need to be CCed. You would also be hit harder so you'll have more rage to dump in Cleaves or HSs, just be sure to remember the mitigation on this is lower so you don't get instagibbed. Keybind to it in Itemrack.
Also, get a Spike and/or the Block Value enchant on whatever shield/shields you choose for this (I can't remember if you can get both on the same item atm).

Rings:
Band of the Exorcist is an excellent threat ring. It also has some resilience so it should make up for some of the lost defense. I's also super easy to get if you're running heroics anyway.

Cloak:
Farstrider Defender's Cloak, specially tailored for heroics; more SBV = more threat, specially for heroics when you might need to switch targets, Shield Slam the X and go back to the skull. It's also cheaper then the Sillik.

Trinkets:
Darkmoon Card: Vengeance is an excellent tank trinket, 51 sta and free threat on, not only the main target, but on every one which's hitting you. Gets bonus points for not breaking sheeps. Get the cheap cards of the AH and ask your guild for the rest.

Gnomeregan Auto-Blocker 600 is very well worth the slot and the badges, pop it at the start of your pull and SS the hell of the skull while keeping cleave on.

About the gems... I dunno, with the expertise you're packing I'd go for +str gems instead of +hit ones, but that's just me. Try to get your hands on the epic gems with mixed sta and crit/str/agi. Also, with all this your +def may plummet way below 490, remember to factor your resiliance but also keep your +def items you have (Kara ring, Adam figurine, etc...) and switch into them before the boss fight, charge in before the DPSers do and build some threat before they can react.


Hope this helps.

Tristessa
01-29-2008, 07:57 PM
the orc racial is 5 expertise with axes, but the only "tanking" axe I would have access to is the thrallmar exalted one, and I'm not real excited about farming rep for exalted with thrallmar, but I could do it... the other option is the s1 mainhand axe. Should I use either of these over the sun eater? its the equivalent of almost 20 expertise rating just to gain the benefit of the racial.
I used Warbringer until I got The Sun Eater and I'm pretty damn sure I was generating more threat with the axe.

Goresaw
01-29-2008, 08:48 PM
thanks for the responses... tonight I actually ran half of kara and the eternium greathelm dropped for me, so that takes care of the helmet problem.. I wont have to craft the helm of the stalwart defender now... I'll have to mess with the sandbox again and see how it affects everything else.

As for the warbringer.. it does seem like its probably better than the Sun Eater. Here comes alot of heroic ramp/BF I guess :(

One thing about it though is that with both badge rewards and the LC exalted ring and defiance I will have 23 expertise, which unless I am mistaken is enough to completely remove dodges and parries from the combat table of at least lvl 72 mobs, if not raid bosses, so the expertise from using the axe will be wasted unless I drop one of those, and I'm not sure what better option there would be. Seal of exorcist in place of the LC exalted ring would be one option.

The darkmoon deck is definately something I'm looking at, I'll start picking up the cards when I see them for reasonable prices. Gnomeregan autoblocker and the farstrider cloak are both great but will have to wait, I plan on getting the Unwavering legguards first, then the 2 expertise items (neck and wrist, probably in that order)

Ekarderif
01-29-2008, 09:40 PM
Dodge will be eliminated but parry will not. As far as I know, it is physically impossible to remove parry due to itemization. Even without the -dodge, the -parry makes it better than hit, though it is no longer more than twice as good.

For ranged, I would recommend Gyro-Balanced Khorium Destroyer for mitigation and Crystalline Crossbow for threat. The Gladiator's Cleaver is a really good rage starved weapon due to better Devastate and skyhigh threat stats, but it is too slow for any sort of Heroic Strike. I am not sure if there is a hit rating trinket outside of Karazhan, but Romulo's Poison Vial is a very nice for threat.

Goresaw
01-30-2008, 03:16 AM
Since I'm talking mostly about heroics, I believe expertise does get capped even regarding parry vs lvl 72 mobs. I've heard disagreement about whether its about 5.5% or 6% for lvl 72 (and whether dodge is 5.75% or 6.5% for lvl 73), but I think with 24ish expertise all dodges and parries are removed from the table against lvl 72, which is the highest in heroics. Anybody know if thats wrong?

I might try using the Gladiator's Cleaver and seeing if I end up with full rage bars too often. I think it will be preferable on 90% of the trash and only be too slow for the really hard hitting single pulls like the Bog Lords in UB or the Destroyers in Mech or whatever.

dorfwawwior
01-30-2008, 04:44 AM
The basics of TPS tanking in heroics imo is very simple.

Cap your hit for the lvl range of the mobs for the instance you are running, I don't think anything in a heroic goes over 72, so that means 7.6 is all you need. I'd say even 6.6 would be aight if you are having trouble.

Lower your avoidance stats, ie, dodge, and parry, but maintain high armor and block value without sacrificing a hp pool to unsafe lvls. Also try to raise your passive block %, will reduce the dmg you take and allow you to run lower max hp simply cuz you don't need the super high health.

As far as Str/AP, crit, hit and expertise, I weigh them in the following order.

1) hit
2) expertise
3) crit
4) str/ap

The reason for this is that your bread and butter threat moves have to land at least so you need to eliminate misses as much as possible, Expertise can effectively take off dodge completely from mob attack tables, but parry is the one stat that blizz seems to give some mobs more of on a varied basis. But parry can actually be good for you, in the sense that if they hit you again at a faster speed and you gain rage from it, it allows you to spend it on more threat, as long as your healers aren't crying to keep you alive. It can also lead to the scenario, the mob parries, you parry his hasted next swing, your hasted next swing crits, etc. etc. With the way they changed rage gen, crit will scale better for more rage than actually hitting harder on hits/crits from more str/ap. This is my understanding and experience with it so far in relation to TPS. However in heroics, esp speed runs, if you want to help contribute more dmg, str/ap will allow you contribute a decent portion of the grps dmg and only then would i value it more than crit.

Block value can significanlty up your spike agro which is needed with the dps that crits hard. It really depends who you run with.

Goresaw
01-30-2008, 05:05 AM
isnt the hit cap for lvl 72 mobs 6%?

Sarris
01-30-2008, 09:43 AM
You can get a 30hit trinket from Heroic Blood Furnace.

Icon of Unyielding Courage - Items - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=28121)

I use it on my "threat" set.