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Trainwrex
01-29-2008, 02:38 AM
I was wondering what other tanks thought of hunters.

I personly only use them as a last resort. i find them to be wipe magnets and most of them don't seem to know how to control their pet keep their traps going. They seem to be narrowminded and not group focused.

what do you guys think?

Shortypop
01-29-2008, 03:56 AM
A good hunter can be a huge asset, depending on the mobs being fought they can trap one (more flexible about choice of humanoids, demons etc), keep another busy with a pet (if it doesn't hit too hard). Misd's are awesome for tight pulls. A good hunter should never pull agro - feign death has (least I think I'm right about this) has the shortest cd of all agro-droppers and misd can be used during a fight as well. A good hunter can feign death losing mere milliseconds of dps time and be incredible mobile during a fight. A good hunter will protect the healer with a trap if possible .... etc etc

One word that I've used a lot "good" - and unfortunately a lot of lvl 70 hunters have little or no understanding of their class, or of any other class - that is a generalisation and I am lucky enough to know several good hunters who I trust, quite literally with my life.

Ofc, a tank wielding decapitator makes a pretty awesome puller as well :)

brain9h
01-29-2008, 05:11 AM
Generally hate them

best 5-men group
warrior tank
shaman healer
warlock
moonkin druid
frost mage

Multiple oh-shit buttons (last stand/shield wall, reincarnate, brez, SS), off-healing, tranquility, innervate, super CC, great AoE, everybody is hard to die (shaman and druids got armor, frost mage has ice block, only the warlock is squishie but they have hp and pet)

No way a hunter could fit my group :D

Roana
01-29-2008, 01:40 PM
I would recommend against judging people by their class, positively or negatively. Otherwise, consider that:

"I was wondering what other healers thought of warriors.

"I personly only use them as a last resort. i find them to be wipe magnets and most of them don't seem to know how to control more than one mob (when tanking), or breaking CC and drawing aggro (when not tanking). They seem to be narrowminded and not group focused."

CharlzO
01-30-2008, 08:59 AM
It's easier for me to weed out, since I and my gf have hunter mains. Of course, it's different as a healer / tank combo, but we can also give advice to guildies that run with us. We do have one in our Kara group who likes to "forget" to feign every once in a while on a trash mob just for fun, but other than that, and once when I reminded him over vent for prince to FD soon, I've never had problems with my guys.

PuG hunters tho...I've seen some whoppers. It's also why I armory ANY lfg hunter that wants to run with me. If I see any green "Strength" number in their character screen, chances are they aren't going.

I have to agree that the hunters are probably, for most servers, the overwhelming favorite of new players. Hence why my main is a hunter lol. but, people tend to think they just have to sit and shoot arrows all the time, instead of being a complete package. It's the GOOD ones that make runs great. The rest of them...I pity the party.

Unsurper
03-05-2008, 04:58 PM
Lol, right I rather take the green wearing scrubs then the epic welfare wearing pvper, gee I pluck arrows/bullets all day long and dance around like I' am on crack',

what is MD?,

chain trap what?,

wow man I'am number one on the dps with my wtfbbqsauce burst damage, gee it took me only 3 seconds to pull all the mobs off the tank, what gives? maybe I need to drink a flask to increase my dps.

threat meter? wtf is that, I' am to leet to use those.

100%-110%-130%???????

the crappy ones only FD after the fact, when the damage is done.

etc.....etc.....etc purple doesn't mean anything in my book, I played a hunter through zg-nax, skills that where necessary then are no longer necessary now, what newb hunter has a rhok?......none etc...etc...

adrenalize
03-05-2008, 05:17 PM
As with most classes, They are only as good as the player behind the charectar. I have no problem kicking anyone from my group if they are just going to cause several wipes.

Gehn
03-11-2008, 09:08 AM
I love a good hunter. The DPS that is brought as well as the ability to CC and kite are good if the skills are high enough.

But bad hunters...*shivers*.

Corlishan
03-11-2008, 11:36 AM
Beware hunters with Mongoose... melee hunter ftl.
I have a 70 hunter alt, and I have to say being a tank really helped me to not be one of those epic fail hunters. Unfortunately there are few people that have that experience. Looking at specs (if you know hunters) can really be good when deciding whether a hunter is crap or not. Hunters with heroic CC build in the survival tree generally know what they are doing, although they aren't the only ones.

Brucimus
03-11-2008, 01:10 PM
IMO NELF Hunters per capita have more retards per toon then any other class/race combo.

but when you find a good one ...keep him, love him,... cherish him


on a side note ...NELF Hunters in PVP could be ultimate defenders with traps shadowmeld caster killing abilities ...but most of them think they are LOL Legolas and think they can kill all the Hordies

Trū
03-11-2008, 11:53 PM
I have to agree with the "A class is only as strong as the player" opinion here. It's close-minded to prejudge a class because you've had a few (or several) bad experiences. Hunters can be amazing. The damage output, mob control, and versatility all make them an excellent asset to any instance. I would say the same thing with druids, rogues, or any other class.
However, because the class is powerful and simple to play solo, learning to use and understand these "extra" features is something a lot of people don't do until they have to. I'll take a bad player through a dungeon if that person can take direction. If the player is both unskilled and unable to follow direction then there is a problem and I'll deal with it as necessary.
I bet if you take a poll, you'll find people have "ZOMG! WTH?!" stories about most classes. I met a druid this weekend who was restoration specialized and didn't know he could resurrect players. I met a hunter who thought he was more effective with his polearm because it had more DPS on the weapon. The first guy was very hard to reason with, the second was just young and inexperienced, when I spent a few minutes talking to him in whispers he listened and got immensely better just as we proceeded through the dungeon.
Just because a player is inexperienced in that kind of gameplay doesn't make them worthless. They just need some nurturing. A little attention, patience, and reasoning. "WTH R U DOING?" won't get many results compared to a quiet whisper asking what's going on. (I'll admit it's more difficult to reason with a level 70 whom almost exclusively has experience in PvP.) Still, I don't know anyone who has been playing a few solid months and takes aggressive criticism very well. It's kind of offensive to have someone call you a moron or a retard.
We didn't become skilled and capable out of the box right after install. Some people take even more time.
As for judging people by talent allocation... That's not always a good method. It's a nice "rule of thumb" but most people here have experimented with specs once in a while to see if they find something they like better. I've also met several very capable players with rotten specs because they don't like or understand the math behind things very well. So they pick what sounds good off of what they use often and how the tooltip reads.
So, long story short...
Judge by performance and actions. Friend the ones you like, help those you can, and ./ignore the rest.

practice
03-13-2008, 08:17 PM
My main is a hunter, my alt is a warrior and beenr eading this website for a while as I sometimes log onto friends 70 war and tank.

What you say bout hunters can be true, when you pug.... lol, a hunter thats good at their class is amazing together with a warrior, being able to pull mobs off 2 trap. helping the MT or OT with threat with MD's.

It's sad, sometimes I've saved a wipe or even a death by getting a quick MD off and hittin a mob runnin for the healer before the war had time to react.

Why ask bout hunters? every class has it's idiots that suck at their class, just imo , hunters r real easy to level vs other classes, so you sometimes see more of the 'kids' and idiots..

Dunmail
03-14-2008, 04:12 AM
Very true, my original main was a hunter. I probably got more out of him, after playing the warrior as I read up a bit on specs, redid a couple of enchants and gems, respecced and was 300 AP better off, 50 agi better off, lost stam & int, used a macro and can run mana efficient. Funnily enough I wasn't too far behind with similar spec and better equipment when comparing ZA lists, and my pet did more damage.

I did find it a total eye opener when I started tanking OL instances, with various hunters not bothering to get their pets out, even if BM spec, others being oblivious to the things they can put on the ground, and others causing less damage than me as a prot warrior in semi mediocre gear. Others additionally seemed unaware that FD in terms of aggro is goooooooooood.

Saying that though I've come across 3 or 4 hunters that did a damn impressive job, made the class look easy and made it an doddle to tank instances, rather than causing me to spin around and see if the square running past was going into a trap or at the healer. When you see something you can poach for your alt to do differently then you know you're onto a winner.

It does seem to an easier class to play, but like others a class that a bit of reading will make far simpler to play. I still find it amusing to look on the hunter forums and continually see people asking daft pet questions, when a minute looking at stickies and 5 mins on petopia would answer the question and make things far easier when playing in the future. I'd skimmed the basics, but not the specifics. There again, common sense and literacy in WoW could be asking a bit much, even taking into account language issues, or maybe I'm just old and cynical(er).

Bluenose
03-15-2008, 03:11 PM
I would be in the camp where its the player rather than the class. Numbers wise there is probably a lot more bad hunters players out there than any other bad players simply because of their sheer numbers - I think if you look at any guild roster their hunter numbers will be full and you can't throw a handful of peas in your capital city of choice without hitting a look alike hunter in their PvP gear these days.

A good hunter is a wonderful thing to have along in any five man or raid, much can be said of the rest of the classes.

Probably the most irksome thing about bad hunters though I find is that they are able to survive their stupidity by the magic of feign death, while the rest of us take the 10% durability loss. Without racking up repair bills they have not as much incentive for things to go right, its easy enough to try, try again.

Shadowsense
04-22-2008, 04:36 PM
My main is a hunter, and you guys are 100% right in being wary of having hunters join parties. I have talked to and ran 5 mans with many people with hunter alts or on their hunters, and they were terrible. It wasnt their gear actually, they were just bad at playing hunters. Even though all the server forums say that hunters dont take skill, its the complete opposite when you think about it. Since there are so many people who roll hunters, you have to actually play well to get far. The skill factor really only matters in SSC and above. Other than that (kara, gruul, 5 mans with alternate cc) hunters dont need skill.

Now that I have taken a break from the game for almost 2 months, I now know what to do; playing my warrior will be my new incentive to play through the next expansion. Prot warriors are hard to come by if you need one with that extra bit of skill that can make them useful in higher tier 25 mans.

My name is Shadowsense and I'm a switcher. : D

Kavtor
04-22-2008, 05:12 PM
A good survival hunter is one of the craziest specs I've ever done 5 mans with. So much CC and control from one player. It's rare to not feel like you're controlling the pace of a 5 man as a tank, but a survival hunter using all his tools can really take over.

Lilie
04-22-2008, 05:31 PM
I would recommend against judging people by their class, positively or negatively. Otherwise, consider that:

"I was wondering what other healers thought of warriors.

"I personly only use them as a last resort. i find them to be wipe magnets and most of them don't seem to know how to control more than one mob (when tanking), or breaking CC and drawing aggro (when not tanking). They seem to be narrowminded and not group focused."

:) I like you Roana.

I am a huge hunter fan. Some of my best runs in heroic 5-mans have been with a solid hunter at my side. Such versatile cc and multi-mob control. They can truly be amazing in the right hands.

Ceravantes
04-23-2008, 05:53 AM
I played a hunter Day one until AQ40, when i rerolled Horde. IMO, Hunters are the easiest class to play, but the hardest class to play well.

Finelle
04-26-2008, 08:21 AM
Meh, this is what pisses the bloody hell out of me. "X class is full of bads." Ever thought of observer bias?

I play a Night Elf hunter.

@OP, please, tell the hunters you end up picking up exactly what you think of such idiots. I'm sure they will be thrilled. I'd personally tell you to fuck off and find another class.

Crommi
04-27-2008, 04:15 PM
I like hunters/mages because my trigger finger is usually too impatient to wait for sap before pulling.

Spacegoat
04-28-2008, 01:01 AM
Hate the player...not the class!

I personaly love having a hunter in the group, they are amazing when played right. That said...if he has no idea how to play...well lets just says that would rather be listening to fingernails scraping on a blackboard for an hour than put up with him.

At the same time however, i would try to make suggestions as to what he could be doing better.

Best way to get them to do that? Just make sure when you ask them to do something, you say...*insertname* would you please do this or try that? don't say could/can you...they might be able to do it but by saying would you give them the option to do it or refuse...you get much better results. Something about the way a man's mind works...honest.

Bencer
05-26-2008, 10:19 PM
To seclude a whole class because you've had some issues with inferior players is not the smartest idea I've heard today. My main is a hunter (dwarven, thank you very much :D) and to be honest, I'm lvling a tank because, as a hunter, I've had issues with PUG'd tanks not being able to hold agro on more than one mob.

I'm not referring to pulling agro from them either. I'm talking about the poor squishy priest who would be sprayed all over the walls if it wasn't for the freeze trap I'd thought to lay at his feet. It's not that tough to tank, this site has been a huge help to accelerate my learning curve, but idiots come in all classes I'm afraid.

I know what you're thinking, but I run my pet in passive, I update Omen sometimes several times a day, my FD button is the thumb button on my mouse and I know how to click it when my agro gets high. I know this isn't the 'norm' for all hunters. Heck, it's not even the 'norm' for most hunters, but there are some of us out there that would just like the chance to change your mind about the utility of our class.

Sirq
05-27-2008, 04:54 AM
I'd hit a druid healer
prot warr
BM hunter
shadypriest
and a mage

dlongest
05-27-2008, 07:49 AM
One of the easiest heroic runs I've ever done was with 3 hunters, 1 in each spec.

Daniel

Curveball
06-03-2008, 07:29 AM
I've had good luck with hunters actually. A skilled survival hunter I know easily chain-traps mobs, wyvern-stings potential trouble-makers (or if I mess up and lose aggro on one), and puts his pet away, unless I ask him to use it to offtank a mob. I like beast-mastery hunters as well for, again, using pets as offtanks on a six or seven pull.

Guess I've just had good luck with the hunters!

:)

Finelle
06-04-2008, 04:55 AM
By asking the hunter to put pet away, you just knocked 20% off his/her damage. About 30% if BM specced. In the vast majority of cases, pets aren't a liability at all.

Lavache
06-04-2008, 07:48 AM
i would run any instance in the game with any of our 3 main (progression raiding) hunters. one of them is probably one of the best on the server horde side in terms of ability and understanding of the class as a whole.

bad hunters however... ugh.

Fortriu
06-05-2008, 01:55 PM
A good survival hunter is one of the craziest specs I've ever done 5 mans with. So much CC and control from one player. It's rare to not feel like you're controlling the pace of a 5 man as a tank, but a survival hunter using all his tools can really take over.

Sleeping casters in SL ftw. Especially when you're running with a rogue as your other CC and sap breaks.

I'm a warrior, and played a hunter pre and post BC. I'd agree, a hunter is probably the prime class that is easy to play badly, but hard to play well. A good hunter is invaluable, probably far more so than a warlock who thesedays are all destro/demon and wont get their succys out because it will nerf their wtfdps.

BenjenColdhands
06-11-2008, 12:15 PM
Everyone would be complaining about hunters being OP in pve if it wasnt for how many hunters dont know what they are doing. I'll take a good hunter over most other classes as they have awesome dps and THE most versitile CC. And fein death.

Punchingbag
06-13-2008, 12:55 PM
The post that finally made me register on this site after lurking and reading here for several weeks. :)

Yes, my main is a hunter so I have so bias here but I am also tired of the whole blanket "Huntard" mindset. On my hunter I have been in groups with another hunter who clearly wasn't very good at playing the class so I can see why people have had issues with them. Yes, my hunter has Omen, Deadly Boss Mobs, and all the other add-ons to help out in a group and I feel that I am just a skilled as the best hunters out there. (sure there are the elite of the elite) I've had many tanks ask me back to their groups over and over and I was asked to join my guild as a result of pug runs with some of the members. I've often been told "you're a good hunter and know how to play your class". Understood, this isn't going to be every hunter out there.

However, as a noob tank I have had more problems with Rogues and Druids than any other class. (yes that is a blanket statement --- and is just MY experience so far) Rogues may just be too much of an independent spirit class for my taste as they always want to be in front of me and lead the group. Druids think because they can be big bears that they could tank it better than me. (maybe they can, but they need to find another group to be in --- Think I need to find Balance Druids instead of the ones I have dealt with)

So back to Hunters...

As a tank I would take a Hunter anytime in my group.

1. I know the class and the capabilities. This means that I can also help/teach if they screw up.

2. Single Target Focus. They have limited AOE - multishot and Volley pretty much so they are a LOT less likely to be pulling aggro because they are hitting other targets. When they stick to the kill order I don't have to worry about them. Spotting Volley would be a no-brainer. Multi-shot a little harder to pick up on. However, if aggro is built up high on me, multi-shot away.

3. Good Hunters are healer protectors. When I play my Hunter (and I've been through every Heroic and Kara multiple times) I am always watching for something breaking aggro from the tank and heading to the healer. If they don't get taunted back, etc. I first concussion shot them. This slows them down (with improved it can stun them for a few seconds). Next I will consider ice blocking it or flat taking it on myself. In the latter, I start loading up with higher threat shots and grab the mob for myself. I can now kite/trap/kill it until the group is ready to deal with it.

4. Hunters stay back. This is a no-brainer but I cannot tell you how much issue I seem to be having with getting party members to stay back.

5. 130% Rule - Ranged attackers have to pass a higher threshold to pull aggro.

6. Hunters aren't obsessed with topping the damage meters. Most good ones don't even have damage meters. Someone who is obsessed with this can be a "threat" to your threat as a tank. After all, as a tank you are looking for steady consistent damage that gets the mobs down quickly without pulling aggro from you. Hunters excel at this.

So take some Hunters along and I think you'll be surprised to learn that at level 70 there more good ones than bad ones.

adenosine
06-13-2008, 01:30 PM
From my limited experience, it's not that there are more bad hunters. It's just that the bad hunters are exceptionally bad, and their badness is more obvious than other classes.

If your mage sucks at sheeping you can either break it and make them reapply, or you can play nice and not break it without too much trouble. If your rogue sucks at sapping, you know it before the pull and can compensate.

If your hunter is terrible you never quite know what's going to happen with that mob with the blue square over it. You never know when that pet is going to chase and aggro another group. You never know when they will multishot and break the good hunter's well trapped mob. It's just painfully obvious when they're bad.

On the other hand when they are good, it's so good. I look so pro because they are always are misdirecting things that might peel off. Adds? The pet is off tanking them before I even notice them. Nothing ever can touch the healer because the hunter is protecting them.

Punchingbag
06-13-2008, 10:37 PM
From my limited experience, it's not that there are more bad hunters. It's just that the bad hunters are exceptionally bad, and their badness is more obvious than other classes.

If your mage sucks at sheeping you can either break it and make them reapply, or you can play nice and not break it without too much trouble. If your rogue sucks at sapping, you know it before the pull and can compensate.

If your hunter is terrible you never quite know what's going to happen with that mob with the blue square over it. You never know when that pet is going to chase and aggro another group. You never know when they will multishot and break the good hunter's well trapped mob. It's just painfully obvious when they're bad.

On the other hand when they are good, it's so good. I look so pro because they are always are misdirecting things that might peel off. Adds? The pet is off tanking them before I even notice them. Nothing ever can touch the healer because the hunter is protecting them.

If you look at them only from a trapping standpoint then I can see why you might be a bit frustrated. Personally, I don't look at trapping as a primary CC. Why? Depending on the instance, traps break fairly easily or almost instantly. For example, in Shadow Labyrinth I've never really seen a hunter trap stick for long. I think the mobs are highly resistant.

On the other hand I rarely see a mob bust being sheeped in such a short period of time. Also, the mechanics of sheeping are SO much easier. Click on the mob and press the button. Trapping involves generating the threat on the mob, directing him in line towards the trap, and standing behind it hoping it works. If it doesn't trap them (instant resist) or breaks within a few seconds the hunter is now dealing with a cooldown before he can deploy another meaning he will be kiting the mob until that time.

Bottom line is that I look to a hunter as a 3rd source of CC. Personally, I would rather have them and their pet's DPS but it is situational.

I hear a lot about this pet problem and consider it to be more of a fallacy in a lot of cases. On the few rare occasions that the pet caused more mobs to join it was 1 of 2 reasons.

1. I accidentally sent him by tab selecting something in the next room/area or above/below me. (Oops) When the pet is on passive, he only goes where *I* tell him to. (except #2)

2. He was feared. In this case the same thing could have happened to a player. My take is that if you playing in an instance where mobs are going to be fearing then the pull needs to be WAY back to compensate for anyone being feared. I think tanks get this, but a lot of toons don't. They think it is a waste of time to pull it so far back in the last room.

There is a 3rd reason which is totally preventable.

3. Jumping off cliffs, bridges, etc. Pets don't jump. They take the long way around. Something in their insurance waivers I think. :) The hunter needs to dismiss the pet before jumping and then call him back when ready.

Punchingbag
06-17-2008, 02:24 PM
I realized I failed to mention a HUGE pro-tank hunter option.

Misdirect

Who else can put aggro on you??

Imagine marking that 3rd or 4th target and having your hunter Misdirect it to you by opening with something like an Aimed Shot and Arcane Shot. Mob will be stuck to you like glue. If only it wasn't on a 2 minute CD. :)

Evilhoof
06-17-2008, 03:02 PM
I dont mind hunters, but then again I only run with 2 guild hunters - one dps whore and the other is a trap genious :-)

But I have a question regarding their pets. My eyes might be lying to me, but it seems to me that mobs sometimes run crazy with a pet on it, and boss' sometimes decide to do annoying turns with a pet on it. Now I've been told the pets arent using "taunt", but I wonder :-P Anyone seen something similar?

Have fun!

annerajb
06-24-2008, 06:02 AM
also we dont have the aoe tanking abilites as pally tanks BUT if you can get a hunter to MD on you and multishoot it helps out quite a bit. :)

Leytur
06-24-2008, 06:09 AM
AFAIK there are no mobs that have higher resistance to traps than others. I could check if need be, though. Most likely the trap is getting broken. CCBreaker will tell you flat out.

It's always fun to see people lie about breaking CC with that add on.

Punchingbag
06-25-2008, 12:45 PM
AFAIK there are no mobs that have higher resistance to traps than others. I could check if need be, though. Most likely the trap is getting broken. CCBreaker will tell you flat out.

It's always fun to see people lie about breaking CC with that add on.

Based on experience I would totally disagree with this. Like you, I'll have to go try to do the research to prove it. However, think about this...Can players have different percentages to break root/snare/traps based on their gear?

Tatt
06-25-2008, 12:47 PM
Surefooted chant - resist snares..not sure if that applies

Pasucon
06-26-2008, 06:48 AM
Bad hunters are often some of the worst players you'll meet at any substantial level in WoW. A good hunter is one of a warrior's best friends.

They make a warrior look pro on multi-mob pulls with MD, they give you a head start on threat on long boss fights, they can wipe aggro almost on command (yeah ok it resists occasionally), they find those annoying stealthed mobs, they slice, they dice, they'll scrub your back, they'll wash you car, they bring you +hit food when that enh shaman is taking your aggroz, they drop snake traps and confuse the shit out of your tab-targetting enemies in 5v5 arenas, they slow hard-hitting elites while your guys AoE the shit out of em while you're afk grabbing a drink, and they make use of all their tools to protect the healer; they do whatever it takes, whether it's with traps, pets, kiting, or suiciding running a loose mob to the warrior. They also kill shit D-E-D ded.

Good hunters with eng save run backs from time to time. They also open locked doors and chests without stroking a rogue's epeen (yes I have a rogue alt with max lock-picking, yes it was a hassle to level, yes I get sick of strangers wanting boxes opened, yes I feel like I'm better than everyone else in the world when I open that locked chest).

1) Find a good hunter.
2) Put them on your friends list.
3) Profit.

Muffin Man
07-14-2008, 02:41 PM
I think the problem with the Hunter class is that it encourages laziness. The class is incredibly easy to solo with, meaning many hunters will reach 70 having never grouped and likely having used only a fraction of their abilities.

It's not that all Hunters are bad players, it's that even a bad player can seem competent in a non-group setting when playing a hunter. The experience of leveling a hunter breeds overconfidence and a reliance on tactics that are often wholly counter to those required for effective group play.

I have a Hunter I use for farming, and the more I play him, the lazier I become, to the point where when switching to another class, I find it impacts my performance. I am so lazy on my hunter I'm too lazy to implement the uber-lazy 1 button mash DPS macro. Now that's lazy.

Playing a Hunter to 70 does not require a whole lot of effort or understanding of game mechanics from the player, and so when they begin to group at 70, they are often grossly unprepared for what is required of them.

IMO, give the noobs a chance to truly learn their class before judging them. Maybe with your help they can be molded into the DPS/CC/buff/debuff wonder class we all know they can be. Just try not to make their crash course on being a Hunter their first heroic run or something =oP

This.

I find the classes that are real good at solo-ing tend to have a wide swing between good and bad players. Demonology specced warlocks can be the same way. LoS pulling only to have a warlock/hunter pet charge in while I'm still waiting for the mob to reach me... really really sucks.

Hunters who keep taunt active... sometimes they're honestly trying to help by keeping heat off me.

Warlocks who think the Felguard should be tanking... sometimes they're honestly trying to help too.

If that's the case, then hopefully telling them is all it'll take to fix that situation.

I've also had problems with mages who run up to a group that hasn't reached me yet and frost nova-ing them all spread out... with next to no aggro on me.

Everyone's probably met the rogue who'd rather sap what he pleases, sometimes before you've finished marking.

In general, classes with abilities that make them think they can control mobs need to be educated that tanks are there to do that... not them. I'm probably missing a few, but the point is it's not a class specific thing, but some classes encourage it by being so solo-able.

Hell, my friend was solo-ing scholo for fun on his hunter the other day and he's not even in all blues yet (who incidentally didn't have misdirection until the tank asked him to pull a boss. Incidentally, he's a good player and managed to pull the boss to the tank even without it).

Oh ya, priests who mc the skull without warning are a nice surprise too.

Danielmi
07-15-2008, 04:37 AM
A good hunter can be a huge asset,

Essentially, Its my opinion, that any class can be played well and vice versa, if a bad player is behind a warrior, he will sunder instead of devestate, if a bad player is behind a warlock then mobs go in all directions gather more mobs and etc.

Now in terms of control... ummm.... I'm a pally tank, what's CC?

Seriously, being played a hunter, tanked as a warrior and healed as a paladin as now tanking as one, I find hunters aren't bad, yes I hate it when we wipe and he gets right back up again:cool:
But in all seriousness, don't hate the class, hate the player, if the player sucks, get another DPS that doesn't.
Remember instances are group activities, and it still requires everyone to work together to get through, and if someone raids and plays badly, the Darwinism of raiding kicks in and they get kicked from guilds/ raids/ etc and they can go back to PvPing.

Rev13
07-15-2008, 11:58 AM
I was wondering what other tanks thought of hunters.

I personly only use them as a last resort. i find them to be wipe magnets and most of them don't seem to know how to control their pet keep their traps going. They seem to be narrowminded and not group focused.

what do you guys think?

I think you should run with a good one before making a blanket statement about a class you do no play. Lets examine:


I personly only use them as a last resort.

I get alot of that. I've never seen "LF Hunter for MgT" Its always "LF Rogue or Mage for MgT" and so on.


find them to be wipe magnets

Blanket statment #1 that has no proof at all. Any player of any class is capable of causing a wipe. To say that one class causes wipes more often than another is foolish.


and most of them don't seem to know how to control their pet

Its a simple fix isnt it? Tell them to turn growl off. Or are you too hardcore to do that? Again, I would wager that a majority of Hunters control their pets just fine, but you have had a bad experience ot two, so you're making blanket statement #2


keep their traps going

Depending on spec and the fact that you live in a universe with the same mathematical laws as the one the rest of us do, a Hunter cannot keep a mob chain trapped more than 2 times w/o kiting it around for a few seconds while their trap cd is still ticking. Understand our cd's please. Also, did you give the Hunter enough time on his trap cd before starting the pull? Do you even know what the cd of a freeze trap is? The duration? Do you know what should be going on or are you just so l33t that you are tossing out TClaps and breaking the trap instead?


They seem to be narrowminded and not group focused.

This last blanket statment is a doosy. The class is not on trial here its the player behind the character, which is capable of being any class. Tanks can be arrogant little pricks too ya know.

Show Rev where the touched you......

Brutally
07-15-2008, 08:48 PM
Honestly, I like giving people the benefit of the doubt. I mean, I'm a fury warrior, I have to look good for future PuGs :P

CyCy
07-19-2008, 09:10 AM
It also takes understanding the class and specc trees before you expect someone to do something for the grp. i.e. My 70 hunter is specced Marks my traps aren't that strong. However I pop MD and aim shot it, no one is pulling it of tank. If im not asked to try and trap i will lay a freeze in front of healer and park my pet next to him. Fight starts, send pet on skull. MD the third target. drop freeze DS the square. If the trap pops feign death and try again. If the healer pulls aggro and is man enough to stay behind the trap hopefully tank can reacquire aggro and break the trap on purpose this time lol. If he can't get back on time I set pet to passive it returns next to healer and I wait for trap to pop. It pops pet attacks hit the mob with DS, feign death and let pet tank em til MT can catch up.

Now tell that to a nub hunter to do that who is pissing you off and you will sound like a genius.

Yes solo lvling a hunter is easy but to be a dynamic part of a five man it truly does take knowledge not just spamming aimed shot. Why you wouldn't want a sixth man in a five man instance is beyond me. Especially when the sixth man can tank dps and has own personal healer.

dirt
07-21-2008, 12:58 PM
...to be a dynamic part of a five man it truly does take knowledge...

I think this snippet rings very true, not just for hunters but all classes. So, I also would never make blanket statements about any one class being all good or all bad. I think more often than not, it falls back to the player having a understanding of the class they play and then finding a way to apply it to the group dynamic. I myself have only been tanking for a few months, so I know I still have alot to learn. But group cohesion is extremely important in instances, even more so in heroics where mistakes are magnified even more. In my very limited experience thus far I've come to realize that we(tanks) are ultimately the leaders of the group, whether stated or not. We are generally responsible for not only the pulling & holding of the mob(s), but also have to have knowledge of the mobs abilities as well as the abilities of the classes within our own groups for marking, kill order, cc, etc.

Now in instances, I actually really like grouping with hunters for most of the reasons that have already been stated. Although as was stated by another poster, I don't really see them as having the most effective form of CC in-game. But, I do like the fact that they can serve a multi-purpose role. I also tend to like them as a body guard for the healer in case I can't get to him/her in time. And with their pets, you indeed have a 6th man of sorts, and even a mini-OT for a limited time. I also think the point about new players and ease of leveling a hunter is very valid. And if you look at how WoW is structured, you may have alot of more "casual players" who mainly just quest or PvP and come into instances later in their characters leveling process where alot of quests require 5 mans or instances themselves. And once you hit 70, I've found people are much more intolerant and expect you to really know your class inside and out. I always do my homework prior to running a instance, see what the mobs can do, whether they can be CC'ed and by whom. But not everyone does that and most players don't have the patients or will to teach as you go along. However, as a team(group) you should be willing to contribute to ensure success. I.E. - If for a example a hunter were to make a bone head mistake, I feel it's my job as the tank to speak up and say, "Hey, next time you should not do that because..." and attempt to inform them why that was not a good move. Just as I would hope if I did a bone head move someone would point it out to me(and yes I've made many and been corrected many times). But always in a respectful way, as to ensure not to talk down to them. Although, that does not always happen.

About the same time I started my warrior, my girlfriend also started a hunter. She for the most part was just into questing and having fun, she really wasn't into instances or PvP, but recently she's gotten a bit more serious as she's been leveling and I've been working with her, trying to help her learn what to do in certain situations and how her skills can aid in a group setting. I find the ability to slow/trap is very useful even if it's not on par with sheeping mobs, even if it gives you a few seconds that might be the difference between a successful pull and a wipe. So long story short, I like hunters. :)

Oh and last thing..I've been reading the forum's here religiously for the last few months, so I just wanted to give props to Cinder and everyone that contributes to these forums. If all classes had a forum such as this then we would not even be having this discussion. So thanks again for all the knowledge that is found here. Excellent work.

Helmer
09-01-2008, 01:23 PM
i think any class can be a huge issue if not properly prepared. everyone, im sure, has horror stories... i know i do :) im not gonna reiterate what everyone else has said here. but for me, having played a hunter and other dps classes to 70 b4 starting my warrior, i find myself being a lot more critical of the dps/cc i bring with me to instances. anyone can be taught if their willing to listen, but if someone cant take direction and is causing problems.. i'll kick em. dps is easy to replace.

Kulzor
09-25-2008, 08:29 AM
I'm with Roana. I've seen horrible healer priests, horrible prot warriors, heck, even a prot paladin that didn't know to use Holy Shield before. (OMG!)

Personally, when I'm not playing my own prot paladin, I've found that I prefer anyone BUT a warrior, because so few of them that I've grouped with are good at holding more than 1-3 mobs, they want CCers to do all their work (and thus slow down the run).

But I'm not about to brandish all of them as crappy. (Though when I see a tank looking for more in general or trade, and they want CC, my view of that tank drops in a heartbeat.)

CyCy
09-26-2008, 04:30 AM
You know the more I read this thread it really outta be killed or posted in the general wow complaining forums

Bran
09-27-2008, 05:30 AM
I like hunters ok. As was said before, they have a wide range of choices for which mobs they can CC. I'm also a fan of any type of CC that can be re-applied when broken/expired.

Actually one of the DPS I use to fill empty Heroic spots on a regular basis is a hunter and I have zero complaints. Then there's a RL buddy of mine who is a hunter who has an inflated view of his abilities, which I spent some time in SLabs last night correcting a bit, lol. Nothing a little ball-busting and practice won't cure, I don't think.

But also as stated above, there are good and bad in every class. Normally I LOVE mages, the CC is dependable and can be re-aplied and the DPS is usually tops. But this idiot last night was a lazy sheeper, kept trying to pull, and tended to AOE and die as a method of panicking. Also wasn't using Omen, so tended to pull aggro a decent bit.

My 2c.

cjc813
09-30-2008, 07:49 AM
With regards to people claiming it's unfair or narrow minded to stereotype hunters, I have to partially disagree. I'll also admit that hunters can be an awesome asset to a group, but you have to look at the facts.

1.) Hunters are 15% of WoW's population, a group 3% larger than any other class group. Hunters are the class with the largest population. Therefore, there are going to be a few more idiot hunters out there simply because there are more hunters to choose from. It's just statistics.

2.) Most people agree that hunters are the easiest class to level. When I was leveling my warrior, I died. A LOT. I had to sit back and look at what I was doing, what I wasn't doing, and what I needed to change. With leveling a hunter, all you have to do is spec BM, keep your skills trained and stack Agil. Bam, you're good to go for 70 levels. What this gets is is high level hunters w/ little to no idea of their class mechanics, and a god complex because they've been invincible for 40 levels. I'm sorry, but this class promotes douchebags.

I should say again, though. Good hunters are amazing.

Punchingbag
09-30-2008, 01:26 PM
I don't usually have issue with Hunters in my groups. From running around with a pet for 70 levels they get the fact that if they out-aggro the tank then it will be in their lap.

Others don't seem to understand the mechanics as well.

Pull, waiting for the mobs to reach me...

Healer: Casts a Heal before they even get there - mobs b-line to healer

Warlock: It was just a dot.

Mage: Blasts the living daylights out of the skull when it is still 5 steps away from me

Rogue: Ah, let me run up there and hit this skull as its inbound. What? What's aggro? I didn't know it wouldn't come to you.

Sascaroth
09-30-2008, 01:33 PM
Hunters are alot of fun, i have an alt hunter and i can have so much fun with him, also consider my self a Good hunter :P

Funniest moment as a hunter:

I MD Pull to a fury Warrior on kara killing him instantly following with my FD and then killing that mob after the tank picked it up. :P

Best kara yet :)

Fortriu
10-10-2008, 06:02 AM
Heh, I've rolled an alt hunter too since this thread started.

I like to MD Vandarr onto people. Especially boomkins, to hear them hoot.

huggy77
10-13-2008, 10:27 PM
quick hunter question, if a hunter is not specced in improved traps should i even bother asking him to trap in heroic... I ran heroic ramps and had issues with traps breaking... the hunter did great dps, but traps kept getting resisted.

Helmer
10-14-2008, 09:05 AM
im not specced for improved traps and havent had too much of a problem with them getting resisted. but while tanking and i have multiple cc classes. after skull is down the hunter's trapped mob gets killed next cause its usually the first to fail.

dirt
10-14-2008, 11:07 AM
quick hunter question, if a hunter is not specced in improved traps should i even bother asking him to trap in heroic... I ran heroic ramps and had issues with traps breaking... the hunter did great dps, but traps kept getting resisted.

My girlfriend plays a hunter and is specced for Imp. Trapping, and when we first started running instances her's use to get resisted alot. I use to try to get her to trap casters and they more often than not seemed to resist the traps. In my experience, trapping melee seems to resist less often. But please note, I don't play hunter and am only going off observations and what she tells me.

huggy77
10-14-2008, 06:11 PM
our hunter ended up running up and dropping a trap....

mavfin
10-16-2008, 12:03 AM
My girlfriend plays a hunter and is specced for Imp. Trapping, and when we first started running instances her's use to get resisted alot. I use to try to get her to trap casters and they more often than not seemed to resist the traps. In my experience, trapping melee seems to resist less often. But please note, I don't play hunter and am only going off observations and what she tells me.

Wonder if traps are affected by spellhit? If so, 3.0 should help, since all hit is the same now...

CyCy
10-30-2008, 05:18 AM
Post 3.0 cc really is pointless...I just call a kill order and if someone wants to cc i tell them to make sure they do it outta range of TC and SW...lol Other than that it's pretty much tank and spank and let dps burn them down.

ttocs
10-30-2008, 05:36 AM
I hate all nightelf hunters named Xxlegolasxx!!!!!!!11111one

PvtCaboose
11-05-2008, 06:59 PM
I like hunters... Unfortunatly there are too many hunters who are bad a CC. They have trouble with caster mobs for CC (can't LOS or dont know how), they continue to attack the frost traped target which gets me picking up the mob, the pet is on agressive or attacks frost traped mob. There are many faults, but I think hunters get the brunt of it. I've run into rouges who cant sap always get too close, mages who constatly sheep wrong targets of wait till the sheep is in AOE range then decide its a good time to sheep. The BEST CC'ers I've run into are Locks. Too bad they cant banish other mobs they seem to know exactly what they are doing all the time.

I'd pick a mage over everything for CC but if there are banishable mobs in an instance I will choose a warlock over everything.