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Timetheos
01-24-2008, 11:48 AM
I am going to proceed to gear up a theoretical tank to see just how much avoidance we can cram in. Right now, not having any of the necessary data in front of me as I begin the list, I have no idea what the end number will be. However, I estimate it to be somewhere between 60-75%. The holy grail? 101.8%.

... (number crunching, gear/enchant list dredging, in-game experimenting) ...

Ok, post-calculation:

11.83% Base stats (hesitant to rely on this figure too much; I need to do more research)
00.33% Agility bonus (Night Elf starting stats)
01.00% Quickness (Night Elf racial)
05.00% Deflection 5/5 (Arms talent)
02.38% Anticipation 5/5 (Protection talent)
61.72% Gear, Enchants, Gems
00.67% Scroll of Agility V
00.67% Well Fed (Warp Burger)
01.90% Bloodkelp Elixir of Dodging (90 mins total, since you can only get 3)
01.17% Elixir of Major Agility
00.88% Blessing of Kings
----------------------------------
87.54% Total.
12.68% miss, 52.83% dodge, 22.03% parry.

It isn't the 101.8% we need to become invincible. It's close, but not so much that we're ever likely to squeeze our way there. If Blizzard didn't consciously set that boundary, they probably would have absent-mindedly allowed us to stack sufficient avoidance through many more items having too much avoidance, more avoidance enchants (there are very few), any avoidance consumable (the only real option we have now is agility) and any avoidance buff. For buffs and consumables, and many enchants, agility is the only way to get any avoidance out of the game.

it's nice that the number is (quite significantly) higher than my original estimation, but it's still along way from the goal.

If you're interested in doing this on your warrior, here is what you'll need:
-A Night Elf.
-5/5 Deflection
-5/5 Anticipation
-Jewelcrafting
-Enchanting
-Your t0.5 set. One of the consumables used is a quest reward from this chain.

The full details of the gear/enchants/gems used and all the details down to each stat are here (zip) (http://www.imminentdestruction.com/phpBB2/files/avoidance_777.zip). Here's the list of items used, if you're too lazy and/or don't like looking at numbers.

-------------------------------------

Destroyer Greathelm
Glyph of the Defender
Subtle Crimson Spinel x2

The Darkener's Grasp

Onslaught Shoulderguards
Greater Inscription of Warding
Subtle Crimson Spinel, Facet of Eternity, +3 dodge

Phoenix-Wing Cloak
Enchant Cloak - Dodge

Chestguard of the Warlord
Vindicator's Armor Kit
Subtle Crimson Spinel x3

Eternium Shell Bracers
Enchant Bracer - Major Defense

Royal Gauntlets of Silvermoon
Enchant Gloves - Superior Agility
Subtle Crimson Spinel x2

Girdle of the Invulnerable
Subtle Crimson Spinel x2

Praetorian's Legguards
Arcanum of Protection
Subtle Crimson Spinel x3

Myrmidon's Treads
Vindicator's Armor Kit
Thick Lionseye, Subtle Crimson Spinel, +3 dodge

Ring of Sundered Souls
Enchant Ring - Stats

Andormu's Tear
Enchant Ring - Stats

Shadowmoon Insignia

Scarab of Displacement

The Sun Eater
Enchant Weapon - Greater Agility

Ogri'la Aegis
Subtle Crimson Spinel x2

Barrel-Blade Longrifle
Subtle Crimson Spinel x2

byechee
01-24-2008, 11:53 AM
there's a thread dedicated to this on the EJ forums. I think bears/rogues can get to 99%.

Timetheos
01-25-2008, 08:56 PM
99%? Is that because of some explicit limitation, or just a very well calculated and extremely sick joke on Blizzard's part?

Timetheos
01-25-2008, 11:26 PM
Ouch.


In light of new information (namely Elementium Band of the Sentry), my initial Warrior figure can be bumped up 0.13% to a slightly more impressive 87.67% total avoidance.

Maybe we'll get a break with Sunwell loot :)

Dragaan
01-25-2008, 11:41 PM
you forgot mark of the wild

edit: and +12agility to boots

Dragaan
01-25-2008, 11:47 PM
damn, now you got me thinking...lol

wouldn't blade of the unrequited (dagger with 3 sockets from kara) with 3 +10dodge gems give more avoidance than the suneater? (too lazy/tired to do the math atm)

..and if you really wanna push it, isn't there a buff you can get from having your fortune read at the darkmoon faire that gives something like +10% to all stats for 2hours?

Taelas
01-26-2008, 12:46 AM
Bears can theoretically go above 101.2% (which is what they need to become unhittable). It requires boatloads of agility, though (involving tracking down every single level 70 blue "of Agility" there is).

You're lacking a couple, though. Scorpid Sting represents 5% avoidance. Insect Swarm represents 2%, though I don't know if it stacks with Scorpid Sting.

Timetheos
01-26-2008, 03:44 AM
You're lacking a couple, though. Scorpid Sting represents 5% avoidance. Insect Swarm represents 2%, though I don't know if it stacks with Scorpid Sting.
Thank you! -hit debuffs are not something that had occurred to me.


you forgot mark of the wild

edit: and +12agility to boots
...
wouldn't blade of the unrequited (dagger with 3 sockets from kara) with 3 +10dodge gems give more avoidance than the suneater? (too lazy/tired to do the math atm)

..and if you really wanna push it, isn't there a buff you can get from having your fortune read at the darkmoon faire that gives something like +10% to all stats for 2hours?
1. The agi from the scroll doesn't stack with the agi from MotW
2. In terms of avoidance, 12 agi is exactly the same (0.4%) as the 8 def I put on the boots.
3. Unrequited with 3x10 dodge = 1.59%. Sun Eater = 1.65%.
4. +10% agility. In hindsight, with this and BoK, I should have used +12 agi instead of def for the boots.

Assuming that buff stacks with BoK additively, and having added the new ring, agi, Scorpid Sting and Darkmoon buff, I work it out to be 93.63%. I'll do some more research tonight (checking debuffs), pack it up and update the zipped Excel file.

I wasn't planning on this being a little project I'd have to keep updating, but it's interesting and will keep me out of trouble.

Edit: 95.63% with Insect Swarm, assuming it stacks with Scorpid Sting. This might just be possible.

Dragaan
01-26-2008, 09:42 AM
i always wondered why there are no other epic avoidance rings in the game besides the ring of sundered souls (lv70)... maybe blizz just doesnt want us to get that last few percent to become unhittable :p

Timetheos
01-27-2008, 06:08 AM
It might be worth considering that a shield isn't necessary for this. Another weapon would enable a second agility enchant.

However, I don't know of any 1h weapons that can rival the Ogri'la Aegis in avoidance, or any 2h weapons that can best that shield and a Sun Eater.

Grabmill
01-30-2008, 04:06 AM
Sun Eater in offhand with Greater Agility on it would yield more than Ogri'la Aegis.

Edit: I was in a hurry a bit (lunch time :P), but here are some figures.

100 agi would give you 3,67%
100 dodge rating 5,29%
100 defense rating 5,08%
and 100 parry rating 4,23%

This gives the Ogri'la Aegis 2,23%. The Sun Eater gets 1,67%. 20 agi enchant would give 0,73%. So Sun Eater + enchant = 2,4%.
Problem though is that Sun Eater is unique...

So we go for the second best weapon: Blade of the Unrequited with 3 Subtle Crimson Spinel, which gives 1,59%. Plus the enchant this is 2,32%, still slightly better than the shield.

The best two-hander seems to be Wildfury Greatstaff from trash in SSC. This one has 2,86%. You could add 35 agi to it, which leads to 4,14% in total, which is less than the two one-handers together.

Btw, I was wondering if a paladin could reach it perhaps, because he only needs 25 agi for 1% dodge (instead of 30 for warriors), but his gear lacks agility in the first place and dodge gems would still be best, so he doesn't gain there anything either.

Grabmill
01-30-2008, 05:20 AM
I only just opened your excel sheet and found a few things:

- If the formulae from wowwiki are correct, you'll need 59,25 defense for 1% dodge, parry or miss. You assume 60,00% in your sheet.

- There are a few items for which there are better options available.
Shoulders: Warbringer Shoulderguards
Chest: Onslaught Chestguard
2nd ring: Elementium Band of the Sentry

Furthermore, I wondered if it's possible to put a red gem into a metasocket? I never tried that myself for some reason :). Clearly, you would not get the required 5 blue gems to be able to use the 12 defense metagem, but I think you'll have to leave out 1 of the gems in the helm.

All these changes bring me to 88,73% in your sheet. Adding Scorpid Sting and Faerie Fire, I'll get to 95,73%. I wouldn't include the Bloodkelp Elixir of Dodging though, simply because you won't have that available in every fight. IN that case we would only get to 93,83%. And that is WAY off :-).

Radhja
01-30-2008, 07:26 AM
Interesting idea... but I have two little words for you...

Rage. Starved.

EH FTW

Timetheos
01-30-2008, 11:14 AM
Grabmill,
I added Sentry to the list (still haven't updated the spreadsheet).
I knew that the two other items you linked would have moderate agi on them. The reason for this is that I put this thing together a couple of hours before I updated the agi calculations on my EH/Avoidance gear list, and the way I chose the items was by taking the highest avoidance items listed. Obviously they've moved around a bit, and I'll update it when I get some free time. As for Bloodkelp... well, it's probably best not to include it, as you said.
The Sun Eater can't be held in the off hand, because it's unique and already being used in the main hand. For the rest of this post, though, I'll assume DWing is optimal.


Radhja,
If you're against a a purely melee boss, (and assuming parries don't cause weapon durability damage; I'll have to experiment with this), you'll be invincible, and have no need for healers or dps, and thus threat/rage won't be an issue :)

Hmm.. I never considered the implications of actually doing this lol, but now that you mention it...

Berserker stance would probably be safe because you'd lose your threat bonus (not an issue, as explained above) and take more damage (not an issue since you're avoiding everything anyway). This would mean more crits and some more damaging abilities.

This thing only requires 10 talent points (5 points each in arms and protection), so the rest could be placed in arms/fury to boost rage and damage.

You'd be dual-wielding, which gives more damage.

Obviously this is a stupid thing to do in raids, since you'd indeed be rage starved (only getting rage from magic damage, Bloodrage and damage caused), and thus your threat would be negligible.

Regarding soloing high-level stuff, it should be noted that there is magic damage involved in the vast majority of encounters, and thus you'd be reduced to a dodging pile of ashes in most cases. You'd only be invincible against two of the four damage types: melee, and elemental. The lack of block makes you susceptible to ranged damage, and the lack of infinite stamina makes you susceptible to magic damage.

Don't confuse this with any kind of plan to be applied in-game. For all intensive purposes it's quite useless. Consider it only an exhibition, a voyage of discovery into what is achievable given the rules of combat laid out in WoW.

Timetheos
05-14-2008, 10:44 PM
Post-2.4: 70 Night Elf Warrior (http://www.warcrafter.net/sandbox/61016?b=0A0G0o2I)

Sun Eater, Ogri'la shield. This is the best possible combination, second being Sun Eater and Unrequited.

This site sums it up at 90.7%. However, a few things weren't available on the site:
0.67% Scroll of Agility V
0.07% extra agility from BoK
5.00% Scorpid Sting
2.00% Insect Swarm
----------
98.44%

I didn't count the elixir of dodging, or Sayge's fortune, since they don't constitute repeatable buffs and are thus in the same category, in my opinion, as use-effects and procs.

There is still 3.36% of the table to fill up.