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View Full Version : I get owned in heroics



nomore
01-22-2008, 02:27 PM
I've been trying my hand at heroics lately but they dont seem to go too well in general...
I thought my gear would be ok for them
491 def, 14k armor, 12.9k hp, 31% dodge/parry. With good cc most of it seems to go alright, though a 2 on 1 situation they will mow me down in no time - but the main problem is with the big heavy hitting guys, eg. boglords in coilfang, felguards in BF, the stone guys in mech..
I did a BF run yesterday and wiped 4-5 times on those final few felguard pulls - they kill me in 2-3 hits each, let alone having 2 of them..
It just seems the healers cant keep up.

Then of course I get all the Gladiator covered rogues/mages saying i have no business tanking a heroic wearing blues..

If you can recommend any gear improvements then shout them at me.
Although ive been farming SL for the trinket for what seems like an eternity..
http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Emeriss&n=Osteoporosis

I was hoping to start some kara pugs but i dont know if i am up to the job now.

inhumanist
01-22-2008, 11:02 PM
Here are some easily obtainable upgrades, that I suggest you get.

1. Necklace from revered CE
2. Ring from last boss in Arcatraz
3. Devilshark cloak from last boss in SV
4. 12 stam gems in everything. Crit + stam gem in the helm makes me :confused:
5. Make yourself an engineering stam gun
6. 18 stam on your shield
7. 30 def trinket from quest in netherstorm
8. 12 stam on your bracers
9. Revered aldor breastplate
10. Gromtor's charge. (fireguard is a good aggro weapon, but gromtor's has some sick tanking stats)
11. Run heroic mech for sun eater. (Good luck. Took me 19 runs.)
12. Spec for improved revenge. The stun is great on heroic trash.

Schue
01-23-2008, 12:32 AM
I cannot access your armory from work but the stats that you posted do not seem that bad. Was your healer well geared? I have 17.4k armor and the felguards in BF hit me for 4kish.

Edit: And the pvp epic wearing dpsrs that think it is always the tanks fault are the reason that I will no longer PuG. Guild runs or no runs for me.

Sandal
01-23-2008, 01:09 AM
Edit: And the pvp epic wearing dpsrs that think it is always the tanks fault are the reason that I will no longer PuG. Guild runs or no runs for me.
I am really sceptical if I see Season 1 gladiator gear wearing players. Most of them (most I encountered) doesn't know how to play their class because they probably halfway leeched their gear in battlegrounds. I don't do BGs much but its very rare to get a good group running in random BGs and thats what heroics about. A beeing a good group.

Any player wearing decent blue equip from non Heroics and maybe a few heroic / badge epics is more likely a better choice than one of this S1 gladiator guys.

Nevertheless you shold work a bit on your equip. I would not recommend to socket 12 Sta into every Item, but most. There are some Items where it does not make sense, especially 2 socket items with stamina socket bonus. However you should replace your 9 Sta gems with blue ones and enchant +150HP on chest and +sta on bracers.

mattdeeze
01-23-2008, 01:19 AM
Your gear seems just fine for hero's from the stats you quoted. It seems that your DPS is more interested in topping the damage meters then avoiding pulling agro off you. also. it is next to impossible to tank both Felguards in BF at the same time. Ideally a Lock can banish one (this is my preferred method). A hunter skilled at trapping can keep one chain trapped (make sure you let the hunter burn his trap cooldown before the pull). and if neccisary a mage can frost kite him. Also a feral druid can offtank one. if your healer can keep you both up (no easy chore as hard as they hit). They just hit too hard and fast to try to double tank them. And the heals neccisary to keep you up will end up pulling one of them to the healer XO
Matt

Grabmill
01-23-2008, 01:51 AM
Those felguards in BF are nasty indeed. They have normal attacks, which can hit for 4K easily and also have some instant attacks (called Uppercut if I remember it right), which hit for 4-5K as well. If you pull and both hit you with a normal attack and the uppercut, you can get 16-18K dmg within 2 seconds.

Sojin
01-24-2008, 06:03 AM
Yeah dude you have really good gear. For heroics it should be fine, there is a huge issue with people in glad/arena armor having so much dps that they think they can just dump it all as soon as you pull a mob.
I have only 11k hp, and 490 def and only 12.5k armor... and i can tank heroics. Especially mech which is good. So there shouldn't be an issue with your gear.

Elyrion
01-24-2008, 10:23 AM
Your stats look good and are better than what I had when I started running heroics. A good healer did make it or break it for me though and it is hard to know the quality with a PUG.

I'd go with UB, SP, Ramps, and Mech till you get the hang of it and start feeling more confident.

As for Kara, I actually think that Kara, in some ways, is far more forgiving than heroic trash (and most agree that most heroic bosses are even easier than the trash too. My guildies are mostly kara/badge equipped and go through Kara without wipes but still have it happen on heroic pulls. There's just a lot smaller window for mistakes in heroics with no back-up healers or tanks and often the same number of mobs to face.

Anglachel
01-24-2008, 11:13 AM
you have better stats than i did first going into heroics... it seems to me that maybe it is a healer problem? If you don't get pretty much constant heals in heroics those hard hitting guys will wipe you everytime.




As for Kara, I actually think that Kara, in some ways, is far more forgiving than heroic trash (and most agree that most heroic bosses are even easier than the trash too.

i agree, Kara trash, except for a few pulls (valets, ushers, the ghosts on the way to curator) is quite easy, which allows for a quick moving pace...

Brickhuase
01-28-2008, 07:50 AM
Sounds to me like a case of no shield block, getting crushed? Those stats should be fine in heroics unless your healer is terrible.

Kazeyonoma
01-28-2008, 11:09 AM
Heroics don't crush right?

Brickhuase
01-28-2008, 11:23 AM
I'm not sure i havent ran one in awhile.(months) If not he shouldnt have to many problems. If you can take 3-4 big hits before you die, there is an issue on healing.

Kream
01-28-2008, 11:23 AM
With good cc most of it seems to go alright, though a 2 on 1 situation they will mow me down in no time - but the main problem is with the big heavy hitting guys, eg. boglords in coilfang, felguards in BF, the stone guys in mech..
I did a BF run yesterday and wiped 4-5 times on those final few felguard pulls - they kill me in 2-3 hits each, let alone having 2 of them..
It just seems the healers cant keep up.

Then of course I get all the Gladiator covered rogues/mages saying i have no business tanking a heroic wearing blues..


Keep Thunderclap and Demo Shout up on these guys, use concussion blow to stun one on the initial pull and disarm when possible. On the felguards, people need to group up on them so they won't charge. Although honestly if you aren't losing agro, its a healing issue.

No blues in heroics... don't even get me started. How the hell did people ever do the first heroic if you can't tank heroics in blues? I tanked heroics with blues from normal instances and questing and did just fine. If you die without losing agro your healer needs more +healing or needs to learn to cast heals earlier.

Brickhuase
01-28-2008, 11:35 AM
Generaly what you will run into with healers in heroics is reactive healing, atleast from my experience it's a little like this.

"omg he took a huge hit big heal start now!" - by the time the heal hits, the mob has hit you again. This is when if that second hit crushes/crits is a special or whatever you die.
vs
"he's about to get pwn'd i better wind up a heal" - hit,heal,hit,heal. you live for the most part.

oh and the above poster is right, heroics were meant to be tanked in blues. Why would you go get epic'd out to tank instances that have terrible drops in comparison. Gladiator gear is nothing to be real proud of it is one of the lowest form of epics you can get and the stat distribution is pvp oriented.

Kazeyonoma
01-28-2008, 02:24 PM
brick is right, and heroics don't crush.

Its a healer issue, and its mostly like brick said, heroics is when healers learn to proactively heal. instead of reactively. When they bridge this gap. it becomes smooth again. And a lot of trash in heroics hit harder than kara bosses so be ready for that too.

Jylina
01-28-2008, 03:15 PM
Yeah, first off with 491 defense, very few mobs will be able to crit him so long as he stays facing them((the witches from Heroic Sl are the only ones I can think off)) and no mobs in Heroics are high enough level to crush unless you're 69, which I'm sure you can all see the flaw in.

That said, even in full Kara/t4 partial t5 those felguards at the end of Blood Furnace are basically the only mobs in a heroic that I cant multi tank, so dont feel bad wiping on those.

Having healed that pull, it can be really hard because the healer needs to have a heal landing for the first swing but that risks pulling the agro on the second one, which will quickly lead to a dead healer most of the time

what I used to do, and it takes a druid that can stealth in or a warlock havinga soulstone on a rezzing class is pull the 2 at the very bottom of the ramp then run into Kelidans room, die then have people rez... its not the most convenient way to do it but it does work.

Unsurper
02-02-2008, 06:52 AM
I" am having the same exact problem, went to do my very first attempt at a heroic, I figure slave pens would be a good inidcator to see where I stood, I' am lacking a few key pieces of gear, the blue belt from the "breaking into arc" quest....but that is pretty much it, 515def, 13750armor, 55% dam red. , 11850hp and low and behold I get hit 4 times and bam I'am down.....they said to pull....so I did....they had not summoned the healer yet so I was like whatever, hunter set a trap but failed to peel, lock was going to seduce, he final got around to it a few moments later......I could sense it coming....the lock....hmmm if a warrior can't take more then 4 or 5 hits he doesn't belong in a heroic, so I told them to give it on more try, I survive but I mean barely, the heal were slow and barely made just before I was almost out of hp.....soon after I was booted and cussed out, called a scrub for wasting their time....hmm I wonder why tanks are hard to find.

Synestar
02-02-2008, 08:18 AM
I ran Heroics with very little problems with around the same gear that you have. It all depends on the group and if they know how to play their class. Too many immature people play this game and think they are Uber because they have PvP gear. Gear might make things easier but they don't make you a better player.

One of the BEST tips I can give is for Heroic Mech. I have run 25 times with no Sun Eater yet =(. The hardest mobs in there for me are the Destroyers and the Fire mage guys (name escapes me atm) for the Destroyers when they start casting Charged Fist hit your spell reflect right after it finishes casting. It will reflect 2 charged fists that would have otherwise hit you for close to 5k damage while taking normal damage. And for the fire guys when they start casting Solarburn hit spell reflect immediately and reflect back that 3500 DD.

sevve
02-02-2008, 08:24 AM
Remember that thunderclap and demo shout makes a huge difference aswell.

Unsurper
02-02-2008, 02:48 PM
I always open with tc and ds then start to do rounds of devastate, disarm once i have a couple devastates in and I always spam shield block and revenge when it's up, holding aggro is not the problem im having......the problem is every group i've come across seem to think i don't need to healed otherwise i suck......quite frustrating.....I can not get better gear because I have the best the regular dungeons have to offer therefore i must do heroic if I ever want to improve my gear.....wth would a prot warrior with gear from kara grind heroics when he already has better gear other then to help someone out(carry their weight) or rep/badges is beyond me