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Crimsonstorm
01-10-2008, 12:12 PM
Yes. Prot can do good dps, in fury gear.

I normally MT for my guild, but on solarian last night I was able to dps.

Here is a WWS of the fight:
http://wowwebstats.com/4ecqpjruicnio?s=5547-5872

I did 1041 dps, this is without any hyjal/BT gear. Just S3, crafted, badge, ZA, T5 level stuff.

Whirlwind was 15% of my dps, probably 1/2 of that was AoE damage to the little mobs that spawn, the rest was normal single target. Only 6% was from execute (which couldve been devastate spam). So I probably would still have been at 950ish in a normal situation with no AoE mobs.

I was #4 overall, ahead of some of the AoEers, and being below only a fury warrior, a mage and a warlock. I wouldve done more damage if I hadnt had to leave the AoE mobs to go 'tank' a priest when they spawn.


So Prot can definitely do good dps if you have fury gear. I had:
Dragonstrike, Talon of Azshara
Ancient Amani Longbow
S3 helm, chest, legs
Badge dps shoulders, cloak
Maulgar bracers, Gruul gloves
S3 belt, boots
S3 ring + ancestral ring of conquest
Bloodlust Brooch + Hourglass trinkets

I did this without getting any 25 man dps gear drops that were desired by a dpser in the raid. The 6 drops were acquired when the dpsers that were there had it already or had something better.

I had 700 armor penetration, which I think is key. I didnt even have executioner yet (had mongoose), but that would be even better. Stacking str/ap and armor pen whenever possible, followed by crit, and hit was as close to 9% as possible, not stacking extra beyond that.


As to aggro generation, if its a fight where the MT gets a big lead on th e boss while you have other targets, its no issue of course. On aggro sensitive fights you need salv, (but so do certain other dps classes).


Grinding as prot is good as well, with the new devastate, and expertise from defiance, and whirlwind. Its best to grind low armor, physical damage mobs that are a bit below your level. Like the sunfury signet/mark of sargeras guys. I go in, devastate a couple times, heroic strike if rage, victory rush and theyre almost dead, before charge is even up again, it works well. Fighting mobs that die fast is very efficient because victory rush will help you a lot. Also their lower armor values make your sunder and armor penetration even more helpful.

Trebora
01-10-2008, 01:24 PM
Great job!
But did you get all those areana points as PROT or did you respec weekly?

Tzobee
01-10-2008, 01:28 PM
Devastate is a greatly underestimated dps-skill tbh. In my fury gear I rank in about nr6 in DPS if rage isnt an issue with just devastate, heroics and WW.... and this is in SSC/TK. Im usually tanking, kinda depends on the situation.

Kazeyonoma
01-10-2008, 01:45 PM
agreed, the lower the armor the target, the more devastating you can become as a prot-dps'er, look at shade of aran.

I really need to get my s2 1 hander mace crafted to top some charts, currently I use Fool's Bane and Malchazeen The malch probably has to go, but i sit at around 150 hit for insecurity reasons, but I believe you when you say getting 9% and you're golden.

Crimsonstorm
01-11-2008, 04:28 PM
Got the arena points as Arms, trying to get ratings up but always get stuck at the 1700 level.

Hit rating beyond the cap is worse for prot than fury. We dont have DW spec and we dont have flurry so we do less white damage (which that hit is helping). We do a lot of damage from specials, so we're all about AP, Crit, armor penetration. Mostly AP and Armor Penetration.

byechee
01-11-2008, 05:04 PM
Getting your AP from STR is more important for prot dps than even arms/fury thanks to vitality.

Prot dps-ers also shouldn't be rage starved w/o UB thanks to focused rage, and many prot wars also spend points in imp sunders making devastate spam cheap.

Taelas
01-12-2008, 03:48 AM
I've been saying this for months. ;)

Fubar
01-12-2008, 01:57 PM
I was at 889 dps on the shade in my S1 chest, belt, shoulders, ring (no arena for me)... MH decapitator, OH fury..both with potency. I took an insane str pot, +hit food, agi scroll, and just devastate/WW until execute lit up and started in on that.

That fight always makes me warm inside :)

fubs

Fitzlestick
01-15-2008, 03:46 AM
I ended up around 10th on Naj'entus (first boss BT) as prot dps. I spammed WW and devastate and used HS whenever I had the chance.
The fight is ofcourse ideal for warriors and for me in particular. Since the boss never moves and everyone get loads of damage which was quite helpfull for my rage generation.
My RL was pleasently surprised a prot warrior could do so much DPS.

My gear is pretty good (a lot of SSC/TK items), no BT/MH items for DPS tho, hardly any enchants and green gems.

When rage starved, what is the best to use rage on ? Devastate or Whirlwind ? Haven't really done the math, so maybe someone knows ?

Norskolld
01-15-2008, 05:54 AM
So i put this to the test with my very average fury set, S1 weaps, a couple of glad pieces but msotly blues and leftover kara ZA gear ive picked up.

Went primal farming and it worked VERY well, better than my 2H MS days for sure.

I highly endorse this, saves me respec costs.

gilthanus
01-15-2008, 10:42 AM
Just started running Kara with my new warrior main. Previous main was a hunter, so I was pleasantly surprised with how much dps the prot war can put down. I respecced to 8/5/48 when i hit 60, well more like 3/0/48 lol, and started tanking in outlands, and never looked back. Finished leveling as prot, do arenas specced that way, everything. The DPS gear I have is some 5-man and quest rewards, no enchtants, gemmed for str/stam and thats it. Curator sparks and Shade is fun. Even my guild is surprised at how much damage I do spamming Dev and WW. I DW the Firegaurd sword and Blackout Truncheon mace, sitting around 115 hit, 33-34% crit when buffed. I love it and will never spend a penny to respec. Arena matches go in the toilet, oh well, I just want the points pool for fill in gear that I don't get drops for in PvE. I'm would never set foot in PvP except out of necessity.

Grohm
01-19-2008, 10:01 PM
i gave it a try on winterchill using some t5-t6 level dps gear
(mainhand: Rage ungemmed/unenchanted, offhand: Brutalizer w executioner)

WWS (http://wowwebstats.com/aswrr6uhozk4o?s=1734-1889&m)

i was quite surprised ;)

Sitharien
01-25-2008, 10:01 AM
I currently sit around 200 +Hit in my DPS gear, what should it be ideally for Prot DPSing?

soliduck
01-25-2008, 10:22 AM
You shouldnt need any more than 200, and could probably get by with less.
Id really have to look at your gear to make any suggestions about losing hit for more AP/Crit though.

Meeks
01-25-2008, 10:50 AM
In our raid when we had 2 prot warriors and it was a one tank fight the 2nd prot warrior used Nightfall

Helped raid damage out a ton.

Sitharien
01-25-2008, 11:03 AM
You shouldnt need any more than 200, and could probably get by with less.
Id really have to look at your gear to make any suggestions about losing hit for more AP/Crit though.

Well, just basic numbers are as follows:
Hit Rating: 218
Crit Chance: 27.69
AP: 1736

Basically 95% of the Hit Rating comes WITH the gear, not gemmed. Where should I want to sit just for DPSing on one tank fights?

Grabmill
01-30-2008, 06:35 AM
When rage starved, what is the best to use rage on ? Devastate or Whirlwind ? Haven't really done the math, so maybe someone knows ?
I've done some calculations about this. I'll just copy the post I made on our own forum down here. The conclusion in short: unless you have the 2-piece set bonus form the T4-DPS set (5 less rage cost of ww), you can better Devastate.



Now Whirlwind is changed to attack with both weapons, it becomes an interesting question which ability does the most damage per rage: Devastate or Whirlwind?

I'm going to make a few assumptions.
1. You are dual wielding The Decapitator. I'm rounding its average listed damage to 240 for ease of calculation.
2. You have focused rage, so all abilities cost 3 less rage.
3. There are 5 sunders on the target.

Devastate damage is:
0.5*WLD (weapon listed damage) + 0.5*2.4*AP/14 + 5*35
=
0.5*240 + 1.2*AP/14 + 175
=
295 + 1.2*AP/14

Whirlwind damage is:
WLD + 2.4*AP/14 (for mainhand) + 0.5*WLD + 0.5*2.4*AP/14 (for offhand)
=
1.5*240 + 3.6*AP/14
=
360 + 3.6*AP/14

Whirlwind clearly does more damage, but it also costs more rage. I'm sketching a few scenarios.

I. No Improved Sunder Armor
Devastate costs 12 rage, Whirlwind 22
II. Improved Sunder Armor
Dev 9, WW 22
III. Improved Sunder Armor + Tier4 2piece set bonus
Dev 9, WW 17
IV. No Improved Sunder Armor + Tier4 2piece set bonus
Dev12, WW 17

For each scenario we try to find out at which AP the abilities do equal damage/rage and which ability is better when increasing AP beyond this point.

I.
(295 + 1.2*AP/14)/12 = (360 + 3.6*AP/14)/22
AP = 1808

II.
(295 + 1.2*AP/14)/9 = (360 + 3.6*AP/14)/22
AP = 7583

III.
(295 + 1.2*AP/14)/9 = (360 + 3.6*AP/14)/17
AP = 2071

IV.
(295 + 1.2*AP/14)/12 = (360 + 3.6*AP/14)/17
AP = 426.8

In all cases, Whirlwind outperforms Devastate when having more Attack Power than the treshold value.

Now the thing is, Situation II will be the most likely for now. That AP can never be reached, so just keep Devastating.
When getting the T4 2piece set bonus, the treshold is suddenly a number which can be reached.