PDA

View Full Version : Destroyed by Morogrim



Req
12-31-2007, 09:49 AM
So I made my first attempt on Morogrim last night, and just got utterly destroyed. I'm fairly well-equipped in Kara/ZA/intro SSC gear (buffed 20.5k hp, ~19k armor IIRC, I logged in the wrong gear to go check) but the healers just weren't able to keep me up; he kept burning through my SB charges and sneaking a crush in there. After four attempts we swapped me out for one of our Drood tanks with ~25k HP and we put him down on the next attempt, with me playing sunder/tclap/demoshout monkey.

1. Is this a fight that just lends itself to a beartank instead of a warrior?
2. Are there any specific gearing changes that I could make to address this guy, other than just raw Stamina?
3. Are there any tricks to tanking him other than just hoping you get lucky with parry strings? He hits so fast it's a real bitch to stay up, so far as I can see.

For reference, I've successfully MT'd the first three bosses in ZA, all of Kara, Gruul/Maulgar, Hydross and Lurker.

Worldie
12-31-2007, 10:04 AM
Well, more than raw stamina, you will want to have as much avoidance *without* shield block as possible. Some warriors geared themselves to passively uncrushable for Morogrim.

It's quite ironic that the best tank for Morogrim himself would be a Paladin...

Nez
12-31-2007, 10:21 AM
My old guild always used a druid because the stamina stacking MT couldn't survive. But, my current guild does it with a warrior just fine. He wears a good avoid set with moderate stamina and seems to have little problem with it. We do have very well geared healers though, so I am sure that is helping a bit. When I see myself getting crushed because my SB charges are getting used up I always start adding more avoid.

The druid does give your healers a bigger "cushion" so to speak and that can make a big difference if they are straining their mana pools to keep a MT up in their current gear.

veneretio
12-31-2007, 10:30 AM
Ya I'll be adventuring into Tidewalker this weekend or next and by the sound of it my gear is similar to yours Req so I may end up stacking a ton of Avoidance too.

Nicki
12-31-2007, 12:29 PM
its morogrim's crushings that kill warrior tanks..Druids perform best, while in theory paladins would perform great.

Worldie
12-31-2007, 12:51 PM
Btw, don't forget that unluck can still happen.
Our tank (full t5, some t6 level gear) even got 2shotted by Morogrim once because of a couple of unlucky parry right after a earthquake (double crushing on 1% chance to be crushed, gg RNG)

A very well geared druid (as said, 24k+ HP and good amount of dodge) will probably be better than a warrior there, i cannot really tell since we always abused of a warrior with Ironshield potions.

Meh i would love to try tanking him once, the problem would be who would tank murlocks then :)

Kaen
12-31-2007, 01:34 PM
They don't need you to tank murlocks; a holy paladin healing with righteous fury on will do just fine. Might have to put on a little merc for high stam, but you don't need an outright tank at all.

Req
12-31-2007, 01:44 PM
Yeah, I was going nuts looking at my combatlog.

Morogrim hits you for 5k (600 blocked)
You attack. Morogrim parries.
Morogrim hits you for 6k (600 blocked)
Morogrim's Tidal Wave hits you for 6k
Morogrim hits you for 9.5k (crushing)
You die. :eek:

I'll see if the raid leader will let me give it a shot in avoidance gear next weekend, but if not, I'm happy to leave this one to da bears and stick with tanking, well, just about everything else. :D

Link
12-31-2007, 02:49 PM
I had a similar situation with morogrim. Let the bear tank if you have more success with it. It's one of those fights where healers can't sit there and spam you because thing's happen like getting aggro from murloc's or getting graved. The extra dodge simply gives the bear the better chance to survive in those situations.

Worldie
12-31-2007, 03:35 PM
They don't need you to tank murlocks; a holy paladin healing with righteous fury on will do just fine. Might have to put on a little merc for high stam, but you don't need an outright tank at all.

To be honest we always have a holy paladin in prot gear there, since we do the murlocks on morogrim to speed up things, and i have a personal record of 9 graves in a row :D

Satrina
12-31-2007, 06:35 PM
If your murloc tank is taking watery grave at all, you have your positioning wrong.

As a warrior tanking Morogrim, just make sure you wear good avoidance without dropping under about 19k buffed health. Use your trinket avoidance boosts as needed. After a while you can often kinda zen when the earthquake will come.

Worldie
12-31-2007, 08:21 PM
In my case it's intentional, i find tanking the murlocks on the raid (thus, in watery grave range) more practice and intuitive. We never wiped cause of graves on me since we have our "backup plans", namely, AoEtaunts, and holy tankadin.

The issue with quakes and graves is that they are like Nightbane's fear, they have a CD but sometimes he waits 20-30 more seconds before using them. And it's not like u can "time" shield block for it ><

Nez
01-03-2008, 08:40 AM
I got a surprise chance to tank him last night for the very first time. :D I wasn't expecting to, so did not have as much avoid as I would of brought if I knew I was going to. but, they gave me a couple tries, which I appreciated, but both times got the double 9k crushings / wave combo and was instagibbed lol. :mad:

My current PC sorta bogs down in SSC, only running 10 fps or so in there at times, so I'm wondering if I was getting late on my SB renews as well. Just picking up new PC guts tonight so that wont be an issue next time I get a shot. :D
I was also expecting to see a parry in between those crushings, but did not show in the combat log either time.

maddfez
01-03-2008, 09:01 AM
We've been using a feral druid from our first pull and we've had maybe four MT deaths in months of farming this fight (discounting pulls where we had to reset him and the tank died while moving to the reset point). I think we killed him on our third ever pull...so I have to recommend a bear tank here.

We tank him just to the right of the north door and stick most of the raid right on his butt with a prot pally for murlocs. Our two or three OTs help gather murlocs up and aoe taunt if the pally gets graved. Our warlocks stand at max range with a frost trap between them and the conc in case a couple murlocs get pulled off the pally. Seeds start when the south group reaches the conc and AoE goes 5-6 seconds later.

Most of our wipes have been due to people wandering outside the conc and pulling aggro on murlocs, so hammer home positioning. Also, get the tank every buff you can and rolling lifeblooms. I think we normally have three healers on MT, three on the raid / murloc tank, and one on graves. If MT healers get graved, the raid healers switch over to cover the MT.

Nicki
01-11-2008, 04:08 AM
its morogrim's crushings that kill warrior tanks..Druids perform best, while in theory paladins would perform great.

Tanked the encounter, It is dramatically easier when a paladin tanks it. The damage intake i had was 4.3k but im well geared even if this went up to 5k id still bargain paladins tank it better.

There are other methods to handle murlocs and well i was lucky to have a second protadin but hmm we shall see. It worked out best we were a bit low on healing and the tank died in teh earthquake after 4 crushings so I said let me tank. It worked to my suirprise I took 1 crush and i think i had purely miss timed holy shield and consecration but it wasnt life threatening.

bludwork
01-11-2008, 10:44 AM
Looking at the fight mechanics, the #1 reason for wipes is tank death, usually right after an earthquake when the entire raid is damaged.

1. you need disciplined healers, especially healers on the MT to keep him up right after earthquake. They must not heal anyone else. We normally run with 7 healers, 3 on me and the rest distributed. MT healers cannot deviate or stop healing the MT for any reason

2. it's absolutely essential to reduce incoming damage from Tidewalker on the MT. Curse of weakness, improved thunderclap and scorpid sting debuffs 100% uptime. The tank must chug ironshield potions on cooldown and keep shield block up always.

3. EH or avoidance. Both work personally I prefer avoidance. I'm normally sitting at 28% dodge without mongoose proc and 20k health with commanding shout. According to wws parses a typical TW kill has him missing me 60% of the time and mitigating 11.5%, average incoming damage is ~3100k and less than 10 crushing blows over the course of 10mins.

if you follow points 1 & 2, the risk of tank death is greatly reduced making him a 1-2shot every night.

Nicki
01-11-2008, 05:59 PM
Looking at the fight mechanics, the #1 reason for wipes is tank death, usually right after an earthquake when the entire raid is damaged.

1. you need disciplined healers, especially healers on the MT to keep him up right after earthquake. They must not heal anyone else. We normally run with 7 healers, 3 on me and the rest distributed. MT healers cannot deviate or stop healing the MT for any reason

2. it's absolutely essential to reduce incoming damage from Tidewalker on the MT. Curse of weakness, improved thunderclap and scorpid sting debuffs 100% uptime. The tank must chug ironshield potions on cooldown and keep shield block up always.

3. EH or avoidance. Both work personally I prefer avoidance. I'm normally sitting at 28% dodge without mongoose proc and 20k health with commanding shout. According to wws parses a typical TW kill has him missing me 60% of the time and mitigating 11.5%, average incoming damage is ~3100k and less than 10 crushing blows over the course of 10mins.

if you follow points 1 & 2, the risk of tank death is greatly reduced making him a 1-2shot every night.

Warriors can't physically keep shield block up he hits faster than 2 seconds and you can block the earthquake (aka losing a charge). The problem is you do get unlucky as a warrior or even a druid and your healers can get graved and you can get double crushed (unless passively immune which for a progress kill would mean gimped health).

A paladin will be hit like tidewalker is nothing but a wet fish, Tidewalker did less damage on me and made me less scared than magtheridon. I took 0 crushings from mag and 1 from tidewalker debuffs help bu t having a tank with superiour crush removal is just plain old better..imo

bludwork
01-13-2008, 07:26 AM
Warriors can't physically keep shield block up he hits faster than 2 seconds and you can block the earthquake (aka losing a charge). The problem is you do get unlucky as a warrior or even a druid and your healers can get graved and you can get double crushed (unless passively immune which for a progress kill would mean gimped health).

A paladin will be hit like tidewalker is nothing but a wet fish, Tidewalker did less damage on me and made me less scared than magtheridon. I took 0 crushings from mag and 1 from tidewalker debuffs help bu t having a tank with superiour crush removal is just plain old better..imo

I like to steer away from what can or can't be done or why class X is superior to class Y type solutions. Morogrim can be tanked by a warrior as easily as any class if the warrior comes prepared for it.

Clifford
01-26-2008, 12:59 PM
Our first two kills (this week and last) had me as a warrior tanking him. The only gear change that I made yesterday was to use both the Scarab of Displacement and Moroes' Lucky Pocketwatch. I had these on permanent cool-down.

In addition I used:
(1) Stoneshield potions all the time
(2) Nightmare seeds in a emergency
(3) 2 Healthstones
(4) I kept shield block and thunderclap up, whilst a fury warrior kept demoralising shout up.

I noticed that I received 6 crushing blows during last night's kill, which was handled nicely by 3 healers. We had another healer on raid healing duty that stepped in when one of my healer's was sent to a grave.

I was surprised at how relatively easy this fight turned out to be after reading all the forums on how tough it is as a warrior.

adamb10
01-27-2008, 06:53 PM
I tanked him and he seemed alright...till he hit me for 9K. I never saw a boss hit so hard in my life.

Cairn
01-27-2008, 07:34 PM
Hit Pretty Hard , Monster &#37; parry , this boss is fuck designed for a Palatank or a war with biggest avoidance u haven't seen.

Tanked with a druid works also , but require a good stamina and avoidance and stop attack when he parry .

For Warrior , just press F1 when he parry , u saved ur life many many times ^^


The other solution is , take maximum expertise ( reduce parry ) , if u reduce significaly , morogrim just hit like a lurker or lootreaver ;)

adamb10
01-27-2008, 08:25 PM
Tried tanking him again, hit me for 9200 crushing 10 seconds into the fight when Shield Block was on CD. This boss sux.

Dany
01-28-2008, 05:52 AM
Morogrim was really the first boss to make me study the deep mechanisms of the crushs. When we put the first step into the instance I started to collect every piece of gear that could help me become uncrushable and it's, in fact, very easy to do.

Badge head
Badge waist
Badge or T5 legs

Shattered halls trinket
Avoidance trinket (moroes, hydross, shadow laby ...)
Maiden neck
Nightbane's chest

ZA shoulders
Def shield + block enchant

Mecha sword + 20 agi enchant

All gemmed with def or dodge (if block bonus).

Remember druid buff + Bok + agility totem are a 3% more dodge if needed to reach the 102,4.
We tried our firsts attemps with standard geared tanks, and it's not just about bad luck: you WILL face double crush in a 10 min fight. Since our first try with uncrushable gear, we never wiped because I died. It's very efficient for this kind of fight, and I still had 17k+ hp full buffed, which is enough since there is no big hard hit anymore.

Ulantor
01-28-2008, 07:00 AM
If you max out available expertise, Brooch, Bracers, Ring(lower city) and mallet, would you still need to be exteam avoidnace? would 40% dodge/parry and 35% block be viable with that much expertise to stop parries?

We just killed Hydross much earlier than expected, and need to move to next boss but don't have a lock ready for Leo, so it's Fathom-lord or Tidewalker up next for us.

Foolishness
01-28-2008, 07:04 AM
tidewalker is an avoidance fight

I tank him with 20K buffed

37.5% dodge

about 65% total avoidance

Worldie
01-28-2008, 08:33 AM
If you max out available expertise, Brooch, Bracers, Ring(lower city) and mallet, would you still need to be exteam avoidnace? would 40% dodge/parry and 35% block be viable with that much expertise to stop parries?

Bosses have about 12% chance to parry. It's not really easy to get that out with expertise.

Aruthra
01-28-2008, 02:42 PM
After taking the advice from forums here, I set my priority when adjusting my gear to (1) Stamina, (2) Expertise and (3) Avoidance.

I tanked Morogrim last night, in full raid buffs including Ironshield pot, Shaman totems agi, etc., here were my stats:

21000 health
19500 armor
70&#37; avoidance
& Expertise Rating of 25 (which amounts to ~6% reduction in parry/dodge)

My gear is mostly ZA, karazhan & Badge loot, no T5 gear and my only T4 item is my hat. All of my expertise came from badge loots and mallet. I used Figurine of the Colossus and a Stamina item as my trinkets (yup no pocket watch). I used Ironshield pots the entire fight and I think that boost in armor was quite nice.

With that set-up and the 8 or 9 healers, I never broke a sweat against him. I never needed to burn Last Stand or Shield Wall (I did at the very end just because I could). Looking at WWS of the fight, he scored 12 crushing blows on me, doing about 6000 damage on average (essentially a little over 1 CB per minute as the fight lasted just at the 10 minute mark) and averaging 4000-4500 per melee hit.

My only suggestion would be to work in expertise as much as you can to reduce his parry.

Good Luck!

Talani
02-01-2008, 10:46 AM
sorry im abit slow to understanding these things...

Best choich for morogrim is a paladin tank because of his high parry chance? what does that mean I am afraid I don't fully get the concept of a paladin tank. Holy damage is the key with them? what sor tof gear should a paladin tank be looking for?

so my choices are A. find and gear a pally tank. B. start collecting a high avodinace gear set to go along with my high NR or FR gear set for hydross? ug..I have alot of work to do. but having said that I can have the paladin tank gear up with NR or FR aswell and we would be set for both bosses.

hbombs
02-25-2008, 07:08 AM
just letting everyone know this boss still sucks! first attempt i was dead in 10 seconds lol. I quickly figured out he hits to fast but was blameing myself for not keepin thunderclap up. seems however that he will still crush a warr anyway. i was only rocking 23.5% dodge though. After reading this I will go back with heavy avoidance and see whats up.

my death only caused 2 wipes. we were losing dps to the murlocs. we have a good prot pally but the murlocs were running right to dps any suggestions?

Bigstik
02-25-2008, 10:50 AM
When my guild first started Morogrim, I ran with a heavier avoidance suit (Opera Helm w/ +8 dodge gems, moroes belt w/ 8 def, 8 dodge, etc). We killed him like this many times because I pushed myself down to 1% to 1.5% incoming crushes (shield block makes you uncrushable, and avoidance *keeps* you that way). However, I recently went all druidy on my healers with my EH suit, and I got a very positive response from them; they said it was the easiest morogrim fight in which they healed me.

Stats:

Unbuffed dodge suit:
27% dodge
21% parry
24% block
14.5k hp
16.0k AC
300 SBV

unbuffed EH suit:
19% dodge
18% parry
30% block
15.6k hp
16.3k AC
450 SBV

adamb10
03-05-2008, 12:38 PM
I tried tanking him yesterday in avoidance gear. It does help. He wasnt doing any serious damage to me till around 44% when he crushed me but until that point I was cruising along making sure T-Clap & the shouts are up.

Clifford
03-05-2008, 11:49 PM
just letting everyone know this boss still sucks! first attempt i was dead in 10 seconds lol. I quickly figured out he hits to fast but was blameing myself for not keepin thunderclap up. seems however that he will still crush a warr anyway. i was only rocking 23.5% dodge though. After reading this I will go back with heavy avoidance and see whats up.

my death only caused 2 wipes. we were losing dps to the murlocs. we have a good prot pally but the murlocs were running right to dps any suggestions?
On tanking Morogrim: Drink iron shield potions the entire fight and thunderclap as discussed. I also establish a rotation of trinkets: Pocketwatch and Scarab. Put three healers onto you that are overhealing and have at least one raid healer ready to switch to you if your healers are sent to the grave.

Regarding dps dying: This frustrates me when it happens and probably means that your AoE is trigger happy. I use a tank in the north and south to help usher the murlocs to the paladin. Establish a frost nova rotation and make sure that people don't stand in the nova as the murlocs will kill them. More than anything I would say that not getting away from a nova is the main reason for loosing dps.

Sangi
04-10-2008, 02:33 PM
I was playing around with WoW Crafter and its possible with the 2.4 gear to get VERY high expertise. I was able to put together a set at max hit and 42 expertise. And I was missing a few pieces due to their DB being incomplete. I would be curious how this fight went with the much lowered (-10.5%) parry chance. Any one have any WWS logs on him to see what his parry chance is?

The set stats broke down like this
15.3K base health
16.7K armour
41.95 Expertise
507 Def
20.3% Dodge
16.2% Parry
26.8% Block

dotJEM
04-17-2008, 03:59 AM
Hmmm....

Normaly we use a Druid for the job, and the Prot Warrior helps our Prot pala winding up the Murlocs if needed, and it sometimes is for us...

However ive tanked him on my warrior before, if i died, which i sometimes did, it was due to having murlocks on me for a short period of time, knocking of my Shield Block at a very unfortunate time... Or the one occation where we had to kick our healers in the bud pritty severely... (died after 9 attacks, not a single heal... WTF o.O)...

Otherwise in normal situations i never suffered a Crushing blow from him... It was a bit back so i can't really remember my stats... Just that i stacked a good decent amount of avoidance as well.

But it's been a while since ive done so... since we always use a Druid today.

Aughban
04-17-2008, 04:46 AM
Ya I'll be adventuring into Tidewalker this weekend or next and by the sound of it my gear is similar to yours Req so I may end up stacking a ton of Avoidance too.


The way i geared for tidewalker when i was doing him was to have enough avoidance to have my 2 shield block charges last the 5 seconds so they where up the majority of the time, the thing about tidewalker is that he will attack twice quicker than the cooldown for Shield Block so your gonna get crushed unless you wear an uncrushable set. I've never needed too but we have a good healer set up, imo for your first time take alot of different pieces of gear and tweak certain ones on attempts to see wat works best.

Augh

Kryax
04-17-2008, 05:46 AM
Moro requires a number of tricks to make it easier for your Guild.

You as the tank should not be going all out avoidance and gimping yourself elsewhere. The problems comes from if his spike damage bursts on you between SB being out. So blend you stam gear with your avoidance, try to avoid boosting your stam with trinkets such as spyglass, favor your avoidance trinkets instead to add to your survivability during the dps spikes.

"Wow this is going better than last week....." WHAM! Slotted!

A few people have mentioned the need to rotate your trinkets which is great advice, you'll know when the burst damage is building. Skimping on consumables is a big nono here too.

Three dedicated healers is great here, 2 palas "rotating" (so crucial) healing is very nice with a priest, with the occasional druid rejuv as a great bonus.

Finally, two obvious points.
1. Good solid communication, 2 of your healers get graved then this must be communicated with opposed to relying on people to automatically pick up the slack.
2. Your own awareness, Moro can be a long tanking fight until your Guilds dps increases, if you lose focus and miss a SB or don't see a healer being graved and brace yourself to bust open some surviving tricks then it's your fault you wiped, no one elses.

brain9h
04-17-2008, 05:53 AM
In the past months (since expertise was introduced) I made a huge number of tests and analysis with expertise gear versus another gear against morogrim, and found expertise to greatly reduce the numbers of bursts I take.

Also its crucial to turn of auto-attack/to trinket/see/last stand when some of your healers are in watery graves.

Sarimus
05-19-2008, 08:44 AM
sorry im abit slow to understanding these things...

Best choich for morogrim is a paladin tank because of his high parry chance? what does that mean I am afraid I don't fully get the concept of a paladin tank. Holy damage is the key with them? what sor tof gear should a paladin tank be looking for?

so my choices are A. find and gear a pally tank. B. start collecting a high avodinace gear set to go along with my high NR or FR gear set for hydross? ug..I have alot of work to do. but having said that I can have the paladin tank gear up with NR or FR aswell and we would be set for both bosses.

This is my understanding: A warrior's shield block only has 2 charges on it, and lasts for about 5 seconds. If the warrior gets parried, the shield block charges will get eaten up very quickly and he/she will most likely take a 9k crushing blow or two.

Paladins, on the other hand, use Holy Shield. Holy shield only lends 35% to their block chance (versus 75% on a warrior), but it lasts for 10 seconds and has 8 charges. This means that while paladins are much harder to gear for uncrushability, once they get there they stay there a lot more effectively.

phaze
05-19-2008, 09:02 AM
A warrior's shield block only has 2 charges on it, and lasts for about 5 seconds.

Improved Shield Block is a 5s cooldown, 6s duration ability, with the 2 charges that you mentioned.


As for best choice for MT'ing Tidewalker: Bear Druid. They just shrug off the CB spike damage, thanks to the massive armor; a well-geared Druid will also have solid avoidance too. Healing a Bear Druid on Tidewalker is like any other Druid-tanked fight, just a little heavier on damage intake.

If no Bear Druid, then I'd give the MT nod to Prot Warrior over Protadin, because of extra health and mitigation in equivalent gear; TW's regular hits are no slouch. As long as someone is keeping Imp TC active, it's very difficult for Tidewalker to eat SB charges fast enough to allow CBs. If the MT has to do it himself, then so be it; keep Imp TC rolling.

Clifford
05-20-2008, 02:57 AM
I think a paladin would work just as well but would probably change my tactics and brute-force it by AoE'ing the murlocs on top of Tidewalker :) Consecration ftw

rustyboy
05-22-2008, 05:25 PM
This was one fight I had to make sure I had the right gear. I used a WWS parses to see what gear was best for the fight after a few times. I even downloaded other recent WWS parses and checked the tank in Armory to see what gear he might have been using. In the end I made sure I had as much avoidance, armour & expertise as possible while maintaining around 21k HP full raid buffed. That means I should be able to take 2 big hits.

Moroes Pocket Watch & Scarab of Displacement (Oh Shit Trinkets)
Nightmare Seeds & Healthstones
Ironshield Pots every 2 minutes
OT Intervene when I take a big hit
Thunder Clap is really important to be up all the time as well as Shield Block
Spec for Maximum Damage Reduction threat is not an issue

The most important time I found to use the Moroes trinket was as a new wave of Murlocs come in. This give your healers a chance to deal with any extra damage to the raid. When I was really low I would hit Last Stand + Nigthmare Seed or if the fight was going well and its near the end I would hit them on one of the last Murloc waves so I ended up with around 30K HP again to give the healers more time.

We tanked him right at the start of the corridor with everyone taking the AoE blast he does, meaning that any AoE on the Murlocs also hit Morogrim. This increased our raid DPS a lot and shortened the encounter greatly.